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Questions - Kawasaki FR691V

Mar 5, 2024#1

J

Jimmy the Lock

I recently purchased a 2023 Spartan Mower RZ-HD 54 in that has a Kawasaki FR691V 23 hp engine.

I'm seeing that apparently they are saying to use 10w40 ???

Oil change kit for Kawasaki engines at:

Kawasaki Oil Change Kit

Spartan OEM oil change kit; contains genuine kawasaki filter and oil; maintains warranty; Kawasaki engine;

spartanzeroturnparts.com

I know in the automotive world 10w40 is not recommended because it allows for more engine wear and a lot of other mower engines use 10w30

Does it hurt anything to go ahead and use Amsoil 10w30 which is full synthetic.

The OEM oil provided in the Oil change kit for Kawasaki engines is a 10w40 synthetic blend

Or, should I use their 10w40 synthetic blend for the first oil change (recommended at 8 hours use)... and after that switch to Amsoil 10w30 full synthetic?

Mar 5, 2024#2

J

Jimmy the Lock

Also the OEM oil filter is Kawasaki 49065 0724

But, I found the same filter size in Wix which should be better quality - Wix Oil Filter 51394XP

I'll contact Amsoil to see if they have a filter in their line that's the same as Wix 51394XP

Mar 6, 2024#3

T

txmowman

The smart thing to do would be to use genuine Kawasaki parts while the engine is within warranty. Although it is not required, if there is any issue with the engine, it can’t be suspected that the cause of the failure is due to using an aftermarket part. Kawasaki oil is formulated with the proper additives for maximum Kawasaki engine protection. Do you know this to be the case with Amsoil? How much zinc is in the Amsoil? Synthetic is not necessarily a better oil. And why would it “hurt” the engine?

As far as oil filter, from what data are you concluding that Wix is a better filter? I would love to see this data.

There is not a break in oil change with the engine. Oil change interval is every 100 hours or annually, which ever comes first, Change more often in extreme conditions such as dirty conditions. Check the oil at each use. It literally takes less than 30 seconds.

Don’t know where you live but if you are in the south or mowing more dirt that you are grass, you had best keep up on keeping your air filter properly maintained as well. The FR model is not ideal for rear engine zero turn mowers, especially with bagger systems. Depending on your lawn situation, you might want to purchase a case of air filters. Never blow them out. They are paper! Make sure you check under the filter for debris build up between the filter and the fan shroud. Keep the clamp as tight as you can get it by hand (thumb and finger). And do not let the filter get wet. Again, it’s paper.

With that, you have a commercial grade engine that should provide many years of great service. But, I can tell this engine is already doomed because you want to save a couple of bucks on parts that may not be to spec.

If someone come to my shop with using aftermarket parts within the warranty period, I am less inclined to go to bat for that person.

Congratulations on the purchase of your new mower. Best of luck.

Mar 6, 2024#4

Tiger Small Engine

txmowman said:
The smart thing to do would be to use genuine Kawasaki parts while the engine is within warranty. Although it is not required, if there is any issue with the engine, it can’t be suspected that the cause of the failure is due to using an aftermarket part. Kawasaki oil is formulated with the proper additives for maximum Kawasaki engine protection. Do you know this to be the case with Amsoil? How much zinc is in the Amsoil? Synthetic is not necessarily a better oil. And why would it “hurt” the engine?

As far as oil filter, from what data are you concluding that Wix is a better filter? I would love to see this data.

There is not a break in oil change with the engine. Oil change interval is every 100 hours or annually, which ever comes first, Change more often in extreme conditions such as dirty conditions. Check the oil at each use. It literally takes less than 30 seconds.

Don’t know where you live but if you are in the south or mowing more dirt that you are grass, you had best keep up on keeping your air filter properly maintained as well. The FR model is not ideal for rear engine zero turn mowers, especially with bagger systems. Depending on your lawn situation, you might want to purchase a case of air filters. Never blow them out. They are paper! Make sure you check under the filter for debris build up between the filter and the fan shroud. Keep the clamp as tight as you can get it by hand (thumb and finger). And do not let the filter get wet. Again, it’s paper.

With that, you have a commercial grade engine that should provide many years of great service. But, I can tell this engine is already doomed because you want to save a couple of bucks on parts that may not be to spec.

If someone come to my shop with using aftermarket parts within the warranty period, I am less inclined to go to bat for that person.

Congratulations on the purchase of your new mower. Best of luck.

The Kawasaki FR series is residential not commercial grade engine. Using 10W-30 vs 10W-40 depends upon operating temperatures. Please do some research. Manual will tell you 200 hours on filter and 100 hours on oil in between changes. Many people, including me, cut that down to 50 hours change oil on both oil and filter.

Mar 6, 2024#5

T

txmowman

Tiger Small Engine said:
The Kawasaki FR series is residential not commercial grade engine. Using 10W-30 vs 10W-40 depends upon operating temperatures. Please do some research. Manual will tell you 200 hours on filter and 100 hours on oil in between changes. Many people, including me, cut that down to 50 hours change oil on both oil and filter.

The FR is so a commercial grade engine. The long block of the FR, FS, FT and FX are virtually identical. The FR is intended to be on a tractor, under a hood. Just because they get mounted on a zero turn does not change the classification on the engine. So, should it be used “commercially” on the back of a ZTR? Absolutely not!

Mar 6, 2024#6

Tiger Small Engine

txmowman said:
The FR is so a commercial grade engine. The long block of the FR, FS, FT and FX are virtually identical. The FR is intended to be on a tractor, under a hood. Just because they get mounted on a zero turn does not change the classification on the engine. So, should it be used “commercially” on the back of a ZTR? Absolutely not!

Please look up FR series on several different sites if you don’t believe me. States it is for residential applications. The FX series is the true commercial engine.

For the record, I always acknowledge when I am wrong, apologize and move on. I am not here to get into a pissing contest with anyone, only to learn and help.

Mar 6, 2024#7

T

txmowman

Use classification and engine classification are not the same. It is a commercial grade engine intended for use on residential applications. Hows that? We are both correct on what we are describing. It is the lowest cost engine in the twin cylinder line up.

Mar 6, 2024#8

J

Jimmy the Lock

txmowman said:
Do you know this to be the case with Amsoil?

Amsoil exceeds manufacturer's requirements and they get approval from manufacturer's to get them to sign off on their oil as meeting or exceeding their requirements. Amsoil is a big player in the small engine world so their oil is going to be better that OEM oil.

Kawasaki has someone making their oil for them to the specs they think is best, so Amsoil is going to exceed manufacturer's requirements as this is what they do.

I'm questioning the wisdom of using 10w40 as this has been shown to allow for more bearing wear. Up until recently it appears that Kawasaki was recommending 10w30 so it's odd that they would now say to use 10w40 when everyone else is saying to use 10w30 in their engines.

txmowman said:
Oil change interval is every 100 hours or annually,

Not on this new engine. The manual says to change it after the first 8 hours which is common practice. Then after that they say change it ever 100 hours. I typically don't use my mower for 100 hours during each mowing season so I change it once a year whether it's up to 100 hours or not.

txmowman said:
you had best keep up on keeping your air filter properly maintained as well.

I'm installing an upgrade kit for a commercial air filter housing - Kawasaki FR Air Filter Upgrade Kit

So I'm way ahead of the game on air filtration

txmowman said:
I can tell this engine is already doomed because you want to save a couple of bucks on parts that may not be to spec.

Yeah, sorry - you've been misinformed bud.

The oil and filters I'll be using cost more than OEM because they are high performance providing better quality than OEM which is not hard to achieve these days

txmowman said:
If someone come to my shop with using aftermarket parts within the warranty period, I am less inclined to go to bat for that person.

Most of the time there are better parts to be had than OEM parts. I spent a lot of years working in the automotive repair business and OEM parts are not all they are cracked up to be and some are crappy quality so they can sell you more parts and repairs later since manufacturer's are geared towards increasing their bottom line, not building quality products.

Tiger Small Engine said:
Many people, including me, cut that down to 50 hours change oil on both oil and filter.

My entire mowing season isn't but maybe 60 to 70 hours so I'll be changing oil and filter long before 100 hours.

And, I'll be using strong magnets on my oil filters to help remove microscopic debris from the engine.

Tiger Small Engine said:
For the record, I always acknowledge when I am wrong, apologize and move on. I am not here to get into a pissing contest with anyone, only to learn and help.

The bottom line it this engine has been in service for about 10 years now and has a very good track record of being long lasting and performing very well. It'll last as long as I'm on the planet and I've got another 25 to 30 years to go if not longer.

Mar 6, 2024#9

T

txmowman

Please provide documentation as to where Kawasaki signed off on using Amsoil.

Please provide documentation as to where Kawasaki has recommended using 10W30 oil.

If your manual shows an 8 hr oil change, you received and old owners manual with your 2023 mower. The current manual can be found at www.kawasakienginesusa.com

You have the right and the choice to believe what you want on the quality or lack there of on aftermarket parts opposed to OEM. We can not agree and still be friends.

Mar 6, 2024#10

StarTech

And from very indicated Owner manual you send the OP to download.

Personally in my area I use SAE15W50-SYN (Kawasaki or Mobile One version) due to the Summer heat we are now getting every year. And the local JD dealer service department recommend using 20W50 Dino oil.

Mar 6, 2024#11

J

Jimmy the Lock

txmowman said:
Please provide documentation as to where Kawasaki signed off on using Amsoil.

Amsoil looks at the specs each manufacturer publishes that they recommend for their vehicles and Amsoil meets or exceeds the manufacturer's recommendations

Everyone knows that each manufacturer sells their own parts to make extra money and for that reason they only recommend their parts. This is true for ALL manufacturers, but they cannot void warranties under law if one uses parts that meet or exceed OEM specs.

Amsoli has been heavily involved in racing (extreme duty beyond what a work engine would need) for years and has the experience and know how to manufacture better oil that whoever Kawasaki uses to make their oil which is going to be on the cheap side since the only reason they sell oil is to con people in to believing their oil is what is required when it's not..

txmowman said:
If your manual shows an 8 hr oil change

I'll follow what the manual says for the first oil change on a brand new engine.

The electronic keypad even shows the first oil change is due in 8 hours so this is what Kawasaki requires.

txmowman said:
You have the right and the choice to believe what you want on the quality or lack there of on aftermarket parts opposed to OEM.

The parts I'll be using are superior to OEM, so you can relax man... I'll get long life out of this engine as do all my engines on all my vehicles.

StarTech said:
And from very indicated Owner manual you send the OP to download.

That first graph is for some other engine that has 20.5 HP...

My engine has 23 HP

Mar 6, 2024#12

StarTech

Jimmy the Lock said:
That first graph is for some other engine that has 20.5 HP...

My engine has 23 HP

Argue if you wish but that is what is in the owners manual and it doesn't specify if FR651V, FR 691V or FR730V just indicates that oil chart for all three engines.

Mar 6, 2024#13

J

Jimmy the Lock

StarTech said:
Argue if you wish but that is what is in the owners manual and it doesn't specify if FR651V, FR 691V or FR730V just indicates that oil chart for all three engines.

I'll follow what the manual says for the first oil change on a brand new engine.

The electronic keypad even shows the first oil change is due in 8 hours so this is what Kawasaki requires.

I think your manual is speaking in general, after the new engine is broken in initially

Mar 6, 2024#14

T

txmowman

Jimmy the Lock said:
I'll follow what the manual says for the first oil change on a brand new engine.

The electronic keypad even shows the first oil change is due in 8 hours so this is what Kawasaki requires.

I think your manual is speaking in general, after the new engine is broken in initially

Can’t believe I am replying to this junk. The Kawasaki engine manual states 100 hours for the first oil change. Kawasaki does not build the mower. If the mower manufacturer says to change the oil daily, that does not mean that recommends it be changed daily. I attend Kawasaki factory training, I know what Kawasaki recommends. You come off like you are the expert so why are you asking this forum for opinions?

Mar 6, 2024#15

J

Jimmy the Lock

txmowman said:
The Kawasaki engine manual states 100 hours for the first oil change

The Spartan dealer I bought this mower from told me the first oil change must be done at 8 hours or the warranty on the engine is void.... the key paid was programmed by Spartan to show that first oil change is due in 8 hours.

Apparently, Spartan got their information from Kawasaki and it's a requirement for Kawasaki to provide warranty coverage to Spartan who in turn extended that covers to their customers. You're not privy to the business dealings between Kawasaki and Spartan

Don't know what to tell you other than...since this is my mower I'm going to change
the oil for the first time in 8 hours even if this causes you to be very very upset with me.

txmowman said:
You come off like you are the expert so why are you asking this forum for opinions?

Pretty sure you are the only on here claiming to be an expert.

I can help you out though... it's my mower so it's not your problem one way or the other.

Changing the oil at 8 hours is not going to cause the engine to blow, so you can relax... or not

Mar 6, 2024#16

StarTech

Well I wish they actually put that in the 2024 owners manual for your mower but it even has the first oil change at 25 hrs. But it wouldn't hurt anything to it at 8 hrs. We do that on engine rebuilds anyways to flush out any left over machine grit. Maybe Kawasaki is no longer flushing the engine that they build.

Mar 6, 2024#17

T

txmowman

@Jimmy the Lock, (you identify as a lock?) You can change your oil every 5 minutes for all I care. Maybe all the confusion is due to you stating the mowers owners manual and I stating the engine owners manual.

@StarTech, according to Kawasaki tech training, the engine components are washed prior to assembly so they do not need the “break in” oil change.

Mar 6, 2024#18

J

Jimmy the Lock

txmowman said:
engine components are washed prior to assembly so they do not need the “break in” oil change.

Any engine builder will tell you... there is a break in period and changing the oil early
after some break in time is a legitimate thing that engine builders do all the time.

The dealer told me in order for the engine warranty to remain in tact, Kawasaki requires
the first oil change to take place at 8 hours.... and the electronic keypad shows right now
that oil change is due at 8 hours.

StarTech said:
We do that on engine rebuilds anyways to flush out any left over machine grit.

Exactly. Even if Kawasaki has some special process they claim does away with the need for an early oil change, it's a very good idea to do this anyway to be on the safe side. I worked in a truck repair shop back in the day and we always did an early oil change after rebuilding an engine and running it for a while.

It's not like it's going to hurt anything so I fail to see what the argument against it is all about.

Besides, I got my stimulus check so I can afford to change the oil!

Mar 6, 2024#19

J

Jimmy the Lock

txmowman said:
you identify as a lock

Yeah man, I like to keep my stuff tight and locked down ya know!

Mar 6, 2024#20

7394

Here in deep South my Scag Dealer (after Kawasaki update) said to use only 20w-50.
So I do. & my former 2014 Kawasaki manual DID list an early 8 hour oil change.

Now my 2021 Kawasaki manual does not. But I did it anyhow. My thing is building Harley engines. So I know it's best to do early oil change, at least for my peace of mind.

Mar 7, 2024#21

J

Jimmy the Lock

7394 said:
My thing is building Harley engines

to put on lawn mowers for outlaw mower gangs?

Mar 7, 2024#22

StarTech

Jimmy the Lock said:
Besides, I got my stimulus check so I can afford to change the oil! View attachment 67970

Good for you. I am still fighting to get mine. The IRS just keep sending un-cashable checks. I got another $2000+ check Tuesday that I had to return because of the Idiots at the IRS can't get a simple thing straighten out. My refunds all been tied up since 2019 because of the simple mistake that the IRS refuses to straighten out. Too bad I can't sue them for the stupidity. The government protects their own.

Mar 8, 2024#23

J

Jimmy the Lock

StarTech said:
The IRS just keep sending un-cashable checks.

That doesn't sound right.

What happens when you deposit the check?

Mar 8, 2024#24

StarTech

Jimmy the Lock said:
That doesn't sound right.

What happens when you deposit the check?

Well my bank won't accept it as it is not made out to my correct name. I would have to forge it which I not going to do. It is $10,000, or 10 Yrs prison time, or both if I do.

Mar 8, 2024#25

J

Jimmy the Lock

If they just misspelled you name, most banks will accept it.

I guess if they misspelled it do badly it's not even your actual name, then they would be a problem.

You have the option of having your refund sent to your bank account via direct deposit.

You could open up a separate account just for that and once the money comes in and is transferred to your regular account the temp account could be closed.

I usually get a few bucks back each year and my CPA always has it sent to me by direct deposit.

Mar 12, 2024#26

O

Old Man 1550

Just in passing, I know some parts on the engines have to wear a little to seat, like piston rings. Sometimes the synthetic oil are too slippery for the parts to seat.
When you're dealing with an air-cooled engine, the temperatures can run to the extreme. Most V-twin air-cooled engines have different temperatures on the front and rear cylinders. Synthetic oil doesn't break down like blends or petroleum oils.
If it were me, I'd follow the owner's manual for the warranty period.
I am sure Amsoil is a good product. Personally, I have always used Royal Purple. It just a preference.
Smiles!

Mar 12, 2024#27

J

Jimmy the Lock

Yeah, I'll probably use the 10w40 blend for the first oil change and then for the first season

Them after that switch to Amsoil

I was thinking about the break in time for the engine so that's a good point.

Mar 12, 2024#28

7394

there ya go..

Mar 13, 2024#29

J

Jimmy the Lock

7394 said:
there ya go..

Where?

I didn't see nuthin

Mar 13, 2024#30

7394

Down the break - in path..

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