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Purging a tuff torq DUP 10 E drive .
#1
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Got a 2007 JD 425 Z track with the sideways engine and a DUP 10 E pump driving a pair of wheel motors ( M0Z425J040186 ) /DUP10E # 10E035050
It wrapped up some wire around the drive & clutch , ripping the clutch off
So it got pushed around a lot because the owner is trying an insurance claim against the NBN installer who left all of the old wire on the ground
So it has been to 3 repair shops for quotes with the clutch hanging off the PTO shaft
So I have got the clutch off, dressed the shaft fitted the new clutch well & good
But no drive to the right wheel weak drive to the left .
So I tried the F-R-F-R bit , pump bypass valve open
Then the same bypass valve closed , no difference to right but left came good
So I have run the right , engine at slowest speed for over 1 hour F-R-F-R-F ( wheels off the ground ) but still no drive to the right wheel .
Seems the DUP10E was made in Japan by KANZAKI but I can find no service details
Any one got some Ideas
Only thing I found on line was 15 min in each direction at low speed .
So we all are on the same page, this is a single pump with a pair of plumbed wheel motors and the oil level is right where it should be
It wrapped up some wire around the drive & clutch , ripping the clutch off
So it got pushed around a lot because the owner is trying an insurance claim against the NBN installer who left all of the old wire on the ground
So it has been to 3 repair shops for quotes with the clutch hanging off the PTO shaft
So I have got the clutch off, dressed the shaft fitted the new clutch well & good
But no drive to the right wheel weak drive to the left .
So I tried the F-R-F-R bit , pump bypass valve open
Then the same bypass valve closed , no difference to right but left came good
So I have run the right , engine at slowest speed for over 1 hour F-R-F-R-F ( wheels off the ground ) but still no drive to the right wheel .
Seems the DUP10E was made in Japan by KANZAKI but I can find no service details
Any one got some Ideas
Only thing I found on line was 15 min in each direction at low speed .
So we all are on the same page, this is a single pump with a pair of plumbed wheel motors and the oil level is right where it should be
#2
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Why did he get 3 quotes and you end up doing the repair? How many hours on mower? You are purging it correctly. Does wheel motor that is not working or hydraulic lines have any damage or leaks. Do you think it is possible that someone has been working on it previously recently since pto clutch was damaged?Got a 2007 JD 425 Z track with the sideways engine and a DUP 10 E pump driving a pair of wheel motors ( M0Z425J040186 ) /DUP10E # 10E035050
It wrapped up some wire around the drive & clutch , ripping the clutch off
So it got pushed around a lot because the owner is trying an insurance claim against the NBN installer who left all of the old wire on the ground
So it has been to 3 repair shops for quotes with the clutch hanging off the PTO shaft
So I have got the clutch off, dressed the shaft fitted the new clutch well & good
But no drive to the right wheel weak drive to the left .
So I tried the F-R-F-R bit , pump bypass valve open
Then the same bypass valve closed , no difference to right but left came good
So I have run the right , engine at slowest speed for over 1 hour F-R-F-R-F ( wheels off the ground ) but still no drive to the right wheel .
Seems the DUP10E was made in Japan by KANZAKI but I can find no service details
Any one got some Ideas
Only thing I found on line was 15 min in each direction at low speed .
So we all are on the same page, this is a single pump with a pair of plumbed wheel motors and the oil level is right where it should be
#3
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Very familiar with that pump. It is a dual internal pump that counter rotates from each other. And the mating surfaces for the right pump are scored. The diagrams will show the pump and mating surface as being replaceable, but at least in the US there are no repair parts available, and if you do find them they are the price of a new pump. Which the last one I replaced was $1700.
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks Ilengine & Tiger but I would be surprised if that is the case as this mower only has 500 hours on it .
I put a new engine in it 2 years ago because he failed to tighten the oil filter properly and is one of these clots who listens to podcasts while he mows
It was also running quite fine when the PTO failed , or so I was told and there is the evidence in his yard which is 1 acre and dead flat .
I could clearly see when the blades cut out as I had to go up and fix the back up mower ( carb gummed up )
So to eliminate the air problem what is the actual purge proceedures ? I want to make sure I have done everything right , the mower has been pushed everywhere and AFAIK stayed on his trailer while the quotes were done and of course there was no drive belt . The mower was winched onto the trailer with my come along winch so was not dragged around at 50 mph .
To check the clutch & burnish it I ran the engine for around 10 to 15 minutes with the bypass valve open and the rear of the mower on 12" ramps, so quite a steep forward slope . IT had been on those ramps for 3 weeks while waiting for the clutch to come in ( this is Australia where no one keeps any parts any more )
So it was start the engine , roll off the ramps, remember the bypass was open, close bypass ( engine still running ) then attempt to do a test cut.
Left was weak & right was very weak so jacked up the rear wheels off ground, put it on axel stands under the frame then started a normal 1/2 speed purge
Left came good , right has barely changed
So do I have to start from scratch purging each side bypass open then each side bypass closed ?
the only thing I found on line simply said to run engine at 1/2 speed while opening & closing the bypass valve , which I have not done, but as that was on a forum. and only 1 person mentioned it I am reluctant to try it unless some one who knows how to do it tells me the proper proceedure .
Last think I need is to tell the customer his pump is stuffed only to find I did not purge it properly
And Tiger, no leaks . Mower was dragged up onto truck ramps so did not put jack under motors .
He needed 3 quotes from actual JD dealers to make insurance claim , I am independent .
He does not think the claim will go through because NBN is blaming the installer who is blaming the sub contractor , the usual liability merry go round .
Ended up being a $ 900 repair quote that I can do for $ 500 because I do not charge $ 175/hr for labour & filled an aftermarket clutch from Stens.
He is an established customer who does his own routine servicing ( although I doubt he did the initial transmission oil change ) but he does actually buy the JD service kits $$$$$ .
I put a new engine in it 2 years ago because he failed to tighten the oil filter properly and is one of these clots who listens to podcasts while he mows
It was also running quite fine when the PTO failed , or so I was told and there is the evidence in his yard which is 1 acre and dead flat .
I could clearly see when the blades cut out as I had to go up and fix the back up mower ( carb gummed up )
So to eliminate the air problem what is the actual purge proceedures ? I want to make sure I have done everything right , the mower has been pushed everywhere and AFAIK stayed on his trailer while the quotes were done and of course there was no drive belt . The mower was winched onto the trailer with my come along winch so was not dragged around at 50 mph .
To check the clutch & burnish it I ran the engine for around 10 to 15 minutes with the bypass valve open and the rear of the mower on 12" ramps, so quite a steep forward slope . IT had been on those ramps for 3 weeks while waiting for the clutch to come in ( this is Australia where no one keeps any parts any more )
So it was start the engine , roll off the ramps, remember the bypass was open, close bypass ( engine still running ) then attempt to do a test cut.
Left was weak & right was very weak so jacked up the rear wheels off ground, put it on axel stands under the frame then started a normal 1/2 speed purge
Left came good , right has barely changed
So do I have to start from scratch purging each side bypass open then each side bypass closed ?
the only thing I found on line simply said to run engine at 1/2 speed while opening & closing the bypass valve , which I have not done, but as that was on a forum. and only 1 person mentioned it I am reluctant to try it unless some one who knows how to do it tells me the proper proceedure .
Last think I need is to tell the customer his pump is stuffed only to find I did not purge it properly
And Tiger, no leaks . Mower was dragged up onto truck ramps so did not put jack under motors .
He needed 3 quotes from actual JD dealers to make insurance claim , I am independent .
He does not think the claim will go through because NBN is blaming the installer who is blaming the sub contractor , the usual liability merry go round .
Ended up being a $ 900 repair quote that I can do for $ 500 because I do not charge $ 175/hr for labour & filled an aftermarket clutch from Stens.
He is an established customer who does his own routine servicing ( although I doubt he did the initial transmission oil change ) but he does actually buy the JD service kits $$$$$ .
#5
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Just keep in the back of your mind that it could be the pump. My customer is on his 3rd pump and the first 2 had the right pump fail.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Nothing is off the cards but I still do not know the sequence for purging air from the system
I am pretty sure it is air as the wheel spins as normal when off the ground and the pump is quite in use
All the other dead pumps / motrs that moan & groan when they start to wear .
I am pretty sure it is air as the wheel spins as normal when off the ground and the pump is quite in use
All the other dead pumps / motrs that moan & groan when they start to wear .
#7
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
It has been my experience with that pump is the first symptom is lose of power when hot but not real noticable on flat ground. Would just get to the point of not having any power while going up hill. And would then progress to not having any power. I don't remember either of the 2 pumps that I replaced even making moan or groan noises prior to complete failure. Unlike most pumps that run a steel rotating pump on a machined aluminum surface. The one in question runs the steel pump on a machined copper colored material which gets a shiny steel appearance when scored.
#8
Tiger Small Engine
Jack up mower and put on jack stands. Release bypass and push steering arms forward and backward 5 times each at low throttle, then repeat at mid throttle and again at wide open throttle. Now close bypass bolts or levers and repeat same procedure. Watch reservoir for oil dropping level, or bubbles, etc.
Double check drive belt and pulleys.
Tiger Small Engine
To perform a thorough purge for hydros:It has been my experience with that pump is the first symptom is lose of power when hot but not real noticable on flat ground. Would just get to the point of not having any power while going up hill. And would then progress to not having any power. I don't remember either of the 2 pumps that I replaced even making moan or groan noises prior to complete failure. Unlike most pumps that run a steel rotating pump on a machined aluminum surface. The one in question runs the steel pump on a machined copper colored material which gets a shiny steel appearance when scored.
Jack up mower and put on jack stands. Release bypass and push steering arms forward and backward 5 times each at low throttle, then repeat at mid throttle and again at wide open throttle. Now close bypass bolts or levers and repeat same procedure. Watch reservoir for oil dropping level, or bubbles, etc.
Double check drive belt and pulleys.
#9
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks Tiger
I wanted to make sure I was not doing anything wrong
What yo suggested is what I did
The only other information I saw said to run at 1/2 throttle then open & close the purge valve which sounded weird but I tried that as well.
I have had hydros that took forever to purge to the point that I made an adapter to go into a tank so I could put a vacuum on it
There was a flex pro that took two full days to get all the air out .
This one is coming good, well lets say not as bad , very slowly
On the first day I could stop the wheel turning with my hand & now I have to press hard with my shoe.
ILENGINE
Belt is new , tension pulley is new , old one was still servicable, just a little noisy so it got replaced, tension arm bush is fine & lubed
Left is very strong right is very weak
I am a bit leary of being too radical as the pump is listed at $ 4,500 Aust and 12 weeks for delivery
Shame the cricket is not on because I could sit there all day listening to the cricket and swinging the lap bar
Meanwhile the yard is filling up with more jobs .
I wanted to make sure I was not doing anything wrong
What yo suggested is what I did
The only other information I saw said to run at 1/2 throttle then open & close the purge valve which sounded weird but I tried that as well.
I have had hydros that took forever to purge to the point that I made an adapter to go into a tank so I could put a vacuum on it
There was a flex pro that took two full days to get all the air out .
This one is coming good, well lets say not as bad , very slowly
On the first day I could stop the wheel turning with my hand & now I have to press hard with my shoe.
ILENGINE
Belt is new , tension pulley is new , old one was still servicable, just a little noisy so it got replaced, tension arm bush is fine & lubed
Left is very strong right is very weak
I am a bit leary of being too radical as the pump is listed at $ 4,500 Aust and 12 weeks for delivery
Shame the cricket is not on because I could sit there all day listening to the cricket and swinging the lap bar
Meanwhile the yard is filling up with more jobs .