You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
Propane Zero Turn
#1
C
cstodd
C
cstodd
I'm looking at a new zero turn and leaning to a propane unit, does anybody have any experience with these units? Right now im pretty much looking at all manufactures except Husky
#2
WISCOPROUD
WISCOPROUD
very hard/ won't start in cold weather. lowers engine horsepower & good luck finding some1 good to work on it. oh yeah, not every gas station has propane fillup:confused2:
#3
Terry CleanFuel
The FACTS are that propane conversions done by a certified technician are MUCH easier starting in cold weather (fuel is already vaporized), can actually INCREASE engine horsepower and propane is more often delivered than gasoline. As for finding somebody to work on it, the engine is the same.
I would, however, like to hear of your personal experience...
Edited to add: I notice you don't own a mower. Where did you get your information?
Terry CleanFuel
very hard/ won't start in cold weather. lowers engine horsepower & good luck finding some1 good to work on it. oh yeah, not every gas station has propane fillup:confused2:
The FACTS are that propane conversions done by a certified technician are MUCH easier starting in cold weather (fuel is already vaporized), can actually INCREASE engine horsepower and propane is more often delivered than gasoline. As for finding somebody to work on it, the engine is the same.
I would, however, like to hear of your personal experience...
Edited to add: I notice you don't own a mower. Where did you get your information?
#4
Ric
I personally always thought they would be a pain in a mower. I used to run propane forklifts where I worked and it was ready available at the plant but for a mower and using it in business I think it would be more trouble than what it's worth.
Ric
The FACTS are that propane conversions done by a certified technician are MUCH easier starting in cold weather (fuel is already vaporized), can actually INCREASE engine horsepower and propane is more often delivered than gasoline. As for finding somebody to work on it, the engine is the same.
I would, however, like to hear of your personal experience...
Edited to add: I notice you don't own a mower. Where did you get your information?
I personally always thought they would be a pain in a mower. I used to run propane forklifts where I worked and it was ready available at the plant but for a mower and using it in business I think it would be more trouble than what it's worth.
#5
Terry CleanFuel
I agree that some of the older forklifts were hard-starting, but there was a time when you had to stick your finger in a hole and rotate a round dial to make a phone call. ;-) Back in the 80s we converted every Toyota forklift that entered the US through the port of Seattle. We also did all of Schwann's trucks.
Technology has advanced a bit since that time.
I had a '72 Chevy 1/2 ton, 350 that logged over 300,000 miles on propane before it broke a ring. This was in N. Washington State and I never missed a day of work because it didn't start. I DID, however, need to keep it running constantly when the temps dipped below -20. Not because it wouldn't start but because it would run with no oil pressure because the oil was too thick.
ANY fuel has to vaporize before it will burn. That's why wood fires are so hard to start. Propane is already vaporized (in this application) so, honestly, it is easier starting.
Now, running a vapor system in freezing temps and below is another story... Propane develops a pressure at -44 degrees but cannot vaporize enough liquid to run larger engines...
There are many Companies (Tru-Green, Terra-care) using propane and are extremely happy. Propane is the third-most used motor-fuel in the world. In Europe and Australia one out of three vehicles run on propane. Ironic that the US is one of the worlds largest producers of Propane yet they don't embrace it as such.
Terry CleanFuel
I personally always thought they would be a pain in a mower. I used to run propane forklifts where I worked and it was ready available at the plant but for a mower and using it in business I think it would be more trouble than what it's worth.
I agree that some of the older forklifts were hard-starting, but there was a time when you had to stick your finger in a hole and rotate a round dial to make a phone call. ;-) Back in the 80s we converted every Toyota forklift that entered the US through the port of Seattle. We also did all of Schwann's trucks.
Technology has advanced a bit since that time.
I had a '72 Chevy 1/2 ton, 350 that logged over 300,000 miles on propane before it broke a ring. This was in N. Washington State and I never missed a day of work because it didn't start. I DID, however, need to keep it running constantly when the temps dipped below -20. Not because it wouldn't start but because it would run with no oil pressure because the oil was too thick.
ANY fuel has to vaporize before it will burn. That's why wood fires are so hard to start. Propane is already vaporized (in this application) so, honestly, it is easier starting.
Now, running a vapor system in freezing temps and below is another story... Propane develops a pressure at -44 degrees but cannot vaporize enough liquid to run larger engines...
There are many Companies (Tru-Green, Terra-care) using propane and are extremely happy. Propane is the third-most used motor-fuel in the world. In Europe and Australia one out of three vehicles run on propane. Ironic that the US is one of the worlds largest producers of Propane yet they don't embrace it as such.
#6
TaskForceLawnCare
I don't think we are opposed to running propane mowers. The issue i have is convenience there's only a few fill up points in area i service with hours that really aren't conducive for me to switch to propane. My truck is diesel our hand tools are gas and adding a couple propane mowers isn't worth the hassle.
True green and terra care are huge national corporations, I'm sure they can get propane delivered to their facilities. Also i don't believe these companies actually put mowers on ground.
Propane is neat just not very practical,at least in the geographic region i live in. I believe diesel is the leading fuel in the eastern block Europe.
TaskForceLawnCare
I agree that some of the older forklifts were hard-starting, but there was a time when you had to stick your finger in a hole and rotate a round dial to make a phone call. ;-) Back in the 80s we converted every Toyota forklift that entered the US through the port of Seattle. We also did all of Schwann's trucks. Technology has advanced a bit since that time. I had a '72 Chevy 1/2 ton, 350 that logged over 300,000 miles on propane before it broke a ring. This was in N. Washington State and I never missed a day of work because it didn't start. I DID, however, need to keep it running constantly when the temps dipped below -20. Not because it wouldn't start but because it would run with no oil pressure because the oil was too thick. ANY fuel has to vaporize before it will burn. That's why wood fires are so hard to start. Propane is already vaporized (in this application) so, honestly, it is easier starting. Now, running a vapor system in freezing temps and below is another story... Propane develops a pressure at -44 degrees but cannot vaporize enough liquid to run larger engines... There are many Companies (Tru-Green, Terra-care) using propane and are extremely happy. Propane is the third-most used motor-fuel in the world. In Europe and Australia one out of three vehicles run on propane. Ironic that the US is one of the worlds largest producers of Propane yet they don't embrace it as such.
I don't think we are opposed to running propane mowers. The issue i have is convenience there's only a few fill up points in area i service with hours that really aren't conducive for me to switch to propane. My truck is diesel our hand tools are gas and adding a couple propane mowers isn't worth the hassle.
True green and terra care are huge national corporations, I'm sure they can get propane delivered to their facilities. Also i don't believe these companies actually put mowers on ground.
Propane is neat just not very practical,at least in the geographic region i live in. I believe diesel is the leading fuel in the eastern block Europe.
#7
Terry CleanFuel
I don't understand "put mowers on ground". Terra Care will have almost three hundred lawn maintenance units in service come (hopefully) next summer. US Lawns has substantially more than that. I have a company in Snohomish, WA with two units and a pickup. It runs the gamut.
Just about ANY commercial cutter can have a rack installed at their shop stocked at no extra charge. I know this because I help set it up.
If it's not practical, it's not practical. That doesn't mean it's not cost effective and Patriotic.
There was a time when steam was the status quo.:laughing:
Cheers!
Terry CleanFuel
I don't think we are opposed to running propane mowers. The issue i have is convenience there's only a few fill up points in area i service with hours that really aren't conducive for me to switch to propane. My truck is diesel our hand tools are gas and adding a couple propane mowers isn't worth the hassle.
True green and terra care are huge national corporations, I'm sure they can get propane delivered to their facilities. Also i don't believe these companies actually put mowers on ground.
Propane is neat just not very practical,at least in the geographic region i live in. I believe diesel is the leading fuel in the eastern block Europe.
I don't understand "put mowers on ground". Terra Care will have almost three hundred lawn maintenance units in service come (hopefully) next summer. US Lawns has substantially more than that. I have a company in Snohomish, WA with two units and a pickup. It runs the gamut.
Just about ANY commercial cutter can have a rack installed at their shop stocked at no extra charge. I know this because I help set it up.
If it's not practical, it's not practical. That doesn't mean it's not cost effective and Patriotic.
There was a time when steam was the status quo.:laughing:
Cheers!
#8
txzrider
txzrider
I keep looking at a outboard boat motor that runs on propane... with the big selling point being no carb maintennance caused by fuel left in carbs. I have a brand new 15hp diesel sitting in my back yard waiting to be installed in my 30 footer... And honestly i would rather convert my big boat to electric, but the commercial solutions for electric are running 3 times the cost of a new diesel. However I had never thought much about converting my lawn mower. I would consider converting to propane at home if there was a reasonably priced well engineered kit to do it...
#9
Terry CleanFuel
Electric in not a clean energy, in fact one of the worst.(acid rain)
Unless your mower is OHC I wouldn't convert.
Outboards like this?:
Terry CleanFuel
I keep looking at a outboard boat motor that runs on propane... with the big selling point being no carb maintennance caused by fuel left in carbs. I have a brand new 15hp diesel sitting in my back yard waiting to be installed in my 30 footer... And honestly i would rather convert my big boat to electric, but the commercial solutions for electric are running 3 times the cost of a new diesel. However I had never thought much about converting my lawn mower. I would consider converting to propane at home if there was a reasonably priced well engineered kit to do it...
Electric in not a clean energy, in fact one of the worst.(acid rain)
Unless your mower is OHC I wouldn't convert.
Outboards like this?:
Attachments
#10
L
LoCo86
Also I would like to add that Tru Green, U.S. Lawns, and Terra Care being some of the largest companies in the country received huge tax breaks switching their mowers to propane. And on a side note I'm sure they switched to propane to give the image of going "green" to make themselves look more environmentally friendly.
L
LoCo86
I don't think we are opposed to running propane mowers. The issue i have is convenience there's only a few fill up points in area i service with hours that really aren't conducive for me to switch to propane. My truck is diesel our hand tools are gas and adding a couple propane mowers isn't worth the hassle. True green and terra care are huge national corporations, I'm sure they can get propane delivered to their facilities. Also i don't believe these companies actually put mowers on ground. Propane is neat just not very practical,at least in the geographic region i live in. I believe diesel is the leading fuel in the eastern block Europe.
Also I would like to add that Tru Green, U.S. Lawns, and Terra Care being some of the largest companies in the country received huge tax breaks switching their mowers to propane. And on a side note I'm sure they switched to propane to give the image of going "green" to make themselves look more environmentally friendly.
#11
Mid TN Lawn
Mid TN Lawn
Around here if you do not have a 500 gallon storage tank to refill your own tanks gas works out cheaper bulk propane is 2.00 gallon delivered right now but if you take 20 or 30 # tanks to be filled cost 18.00 for 20 and 27.00 for 30 thats much higher than gas
#12
Terry CleanFuel
Rebates are available to anyone converting. If your vehicle is propane that's a $.50 rebate right there.
They certainly ARE more environmentally friendly! Propane emits almost 80% fewer emissions than gasoline
Propane and the environment - All Propane Mowers
Tru Green, TerraCare, US Lawns, they ALL are being environmentally conscious and using an American fuel in the process - all the time saving a bunch of money and reducing their maintenance costs. How can that be a bad thing?
Terry CleanFuel
Also I would like to add that Tru Green, U.S. Lawns, and Terra Care being some of the largest companies in the country received huge tax breaks switching their mowers to propane.
Rebates are available to anyone converting. If your vehicle is propane that's a $.50 rebate right there.
And on a side note I'm sure they switched to propane to give the image of going "green" to make themselves look more environmentally friendly.
They certainly ARE more environmentally friendly! Propane emits almost 80% fewer emissions than gasoline
Propane and the environment - All Propane Mowers
Tru Green, TerraCare, US Lawns, they ALL are being environmentally conscious and using an American fuel in the process - all the time saving a bunch of money and reducing their maintenance costs. How can that be a bad thing?
#13
briggs
u sound like a salesman are they paying u well lol......I understand what u are saying ..But lets be real here PROPANE is not that easy to come by for most people unless u own a place that sells it or have a place close by to get it ..I am always up for new ideas and never knock one till I try it ..But I worked on propane vehicles back in 80s and 90s cabs/cop cars/forklifts etc ..Is it cleaner yes more horsepower yes ...But it is not cheaper to use why do u think they stopped using in fleet vehicles it cost to much to fix and maintain plus here u have to have it recertified every couple of years not just anyone can work on it ..Its not practical ...I had propane heat in my house and it cost me way more to heat it then it did when I had oil I went back to oil ...From a consumer point of view they want something they can work on themselves who wants to pay the high cost of a dealer to fix there stuff ...One mistake with propane and say good bye u don't get a second chance with it not sure if I want to strap a bomb to my butt..Gas and diesel are the way to go in my opinion
briggs
Rebates are available to anyone converting. If your vehicle is propane that's a $.50 rebate right there.
They certainly ARE more environmentally friendly! Propane emits almost 80% fewer emissions than gasoline
Propane and the environment - All Propane Mowers
Tru Green, TerraCare, US Lawns, they ALL are being environmentally conscious and using an American fuel in the process - all the time saving a bunch of money and reducing their maintenance costs. How can that be a bad thing?
u sound like a salesman are they paying u well lol......I understand what u are saying ..But lets be real here PROPANE is not that easy to come by for most people unless u own a place that sells it or have a place close by to get it ..I am always up for new ideas and never knock one till I try it ..But I worked on propane vehicles back in 80s and 90s cabs/cop cars/forklifts etc ..Is it cleaner yes more horsepower yes ...But it is not cheaper to use why do u think they stopped using in fleet vehicles it cost to much to fix and maintain plus here u have to have it recertified every couple of years not just anyone can work on it ..Its not practical ...I had propane heat in my house and it cost me way more to heat it then it did when I had oil I went back to oil ...From a consumer point of view they want something they can work on themselves who wants to pay the high cost of a dealer to fix there stuff ...One mistake with propane and say good bye u don't get a second chance with it not sure if I want to strap a bomb to my butt..Gas and diesel are the way to go in my opinion
#14
Terry CleanFuel
They stopped using propane because the technology wasn't in place yet for fuel injection. I've been in the propane business nonstop for almost 40 years. I've been a carb specialist for almost 30. Rebuilding a propane system including the converter/regulator is about half what it cost to rebuild a Holley or Rochester. I don't know where you're getting your information.
You are right in that not everybody can work on it. If I were having problems I would take them to my dealer. My MOWER dealer. It's still the same mower.
As for maintenance, there is less than a comparable gasoline vehicle and as for certification every two years, this is the first I've ever heard of that so I must owe close to forty years of fees. I honestly have never heard of it, but then again, I only travel the United States and their territories.
You keep making statements about the safety of propane. Can you share some of those incidents of folks who "never got a second chance?"
You are certainly allowed to have an opinion but in my experience they simply have no basis in fact. Not one bit.
Feel free to google anything I've mentioned here. I've tried googling your statements and came up empty. Nothing personal...
Terry CleanFuel
u sound like a salesman are they paying u well lol......I understand what u are saying ..But lets be real here PROPANE is not that easy to come by for most people unless u own a place that sells it or have a place close by to get it ..I am always up for new ideas and never knock one till I try it ..But I worked on propane vehicles back in 80s and 90s cabs/cop cars/forklifts etc ..Is it cleaner yes more horsepower yes ...But it is not cheaper to use why do u think they stopped using in fleet vehicles it cost to much to fix and maintain plus here u have to have it recertified every couple of years not just anyone can work on it ..Its not practical ...I had propane heat in my house and it cost me way more to heat it then it did when I had oil I went back to oil ...From a consumer point of view they want something they can work on themselves who wants to pay the high cost of a dealer to fix there stuff ...One mistake with propane and say good bye u don't get a second chance with it not sure if I want to strap a bomb to my butt..Gas and diesel are the way to go in my opinion
They stopped using propane because the technology wasn't in place yet for fuel injection. I've been in the propane business nonstop for almost 40 years. I've been a carb specialist for almost 30. Rebuilding a propane system including the converter/regulator is about half what it cost to rebuild a Holley or Rochester. I don't know where you're getting your information.
You are right in that not everybody can work on it. If I were having problems I would take them to my dealer. My MOWER dealer. It's still the same mower.
As for maintenance, there is less than a comparable gasoline vehicle and as for certification every two years, this is the first I've ever heard of that so I must owe close to forty years of fees. I honestly have never heard of it, but then again, I only travel the United States and their territories.
You keep making statements about the safety of propane. Can you share some of those incidents of folks who "never got a second chance?"
You are certainly allowed to have an opinion but in my experience they simply have no basis in fact. Not one bit.
Feel free to google anything I've mentioned here. I've tried googling your statements and came up empty. Nothing personal...
#15
L
LoCo86
Not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that they don't care about the environment, they just changed for the money involved. I'm sure you know businesses of that size have to spend an incredible amount of money to help with their taxes. I just wonder after the next presidential election how many of those companies stick with propane.
L
LoCo86
Rebates are available to anyone converting. If your vehicle is propane that's a $.50 rebate right there. They certainly ARE more environmentally friendly! Propane emits almost 80% fewer emissions than gasoline Propane and the environment - All Propane Mowers Tru Green, TerraCare, US Lawns, they ALL are being environmentally conscious and using an American fuel in the process - all the time saving a bunch of money and reducing their maintenance costs. How can that be a bad thing?
Not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that they don't care about the environment, they just changed for the money involved. I'm sure you know businesses of that size have to spend an incredible amount of money to help with their taxes. I just wonder after the next presidential election how many of those companies stick with propane.
#16
briggs
well I worked on propane vehicles we had cop shop bring there cars we had sears Canada bring there service vans the post office had them too we had cabs we also had trucks and they all went to gas and the trucks went diesel ..It was because the price got to high for them to run a fleet of 200 or more vehicles at one point the crap cost more then gas and was not easy to get it still isn't not all gas stations care we have about 4 here in the city and not much out side of town ....I worked at a shop that a guy got killed at working on a propane cab bang blew him out the door 15 feet deader then a door nail he was cert ...Here if u had a commercial vehicle that carry's people u had to have it CERT every few years to protect the company's *** so they don't get there *** sued if something go's wrong all Commercial Vehicles in Canada get CERT we don't want junk on the road here ...I also saw a car that the tank ruptured some how car was totaled and the driver was dead been not everything that happens hits the news or is not reported I am not going to waste my time with goggle if it was so good they would have kept it
briggs
They stopped using propane because the technology wasn't in place yet for fuel injection. I've been in the propane business nonstop for almost 40 years. I've been a carb specialist for almost 30. Rebuilding a propane system including the converter/regulator is about half what it cost to rebuild a Holley or Rochester. I don't know where you're getting your information.
You are right in that not everybody can work on it. If I were having problems I would take them to my dealer. My MOWER dealer. It's still the same mower.
As for maintenance, there is less than a comparable gasoline vehicle and as for certification every two years, this is the first I've ever heard of that so I must owe close to forty years of fees. I honestly have never heard of it, but then again, I only travel the United States and their territories.
You keep making statements about the safety of propane. Can you share some of those incidents of folks who "never got a second chance?"
You are certainly allowed to have an opinion but in my experience they simply have no basis in fact. Not one bit.
Feel free to google anything I've mentioned here. I've tried googling your statements and came up empty. Nothing personal...
well I worked on propane vehicles we had cop shop bring there cars we had sears Canada bring there service vans the post office had them too we had cabs we also had trucks and they all went to gas and the trucks went diesel ..It was because the price got to high for them to run a fleet of 200 or more vehicles at one point the crap cost more then gas and was not easy to get it still isn't not all gas stations care we have about 4 here in the city and not much out side of town ....I worked at a shop that a guy got killed at working on a propane cab bang blew him out the door 15 feet deader then a door nail he was cert ...Here if u had a commercial vehicle that carry's people u had to have it CERT every few years to protect the company's *** so they don't get there *** sued if something go's wrong all Commercial Vehicles in Canada get CERT we don't want junk on the road here ...I also saw a car that the tank ruptured some how car was totaled and the driver was dead been not everything that happens hits the news or is not reported I am not going to waste my time with goggle if it was so good they would have kept it
#17
Parkmower
Parkmower
We run a CNG 3/4 ton Chevy with a plow. When plowing it gets absolutely terrible mileage. The tank only holds equivalent of 15 gal is gas. So refueling is often. One of our facilities has a CNG filling station but it's 15 min away so that's a pain when all our facilities have a fuel island with gas and diesel. We have a very large fleet and were required to have a certain percentage run on alternative fuels.
#18
briggs
i hear u i had a 1 ton truck with a propane set up not very friendly on propane when loaded or working it ...It was my mobile service truck then i switched to a Diesel truck
briggs
We run a CNG 3/4 ton Chevy with a plow. When plowing it gets absolutely terrible mileage. The tank only holds equivalent of 15 gal is gas. So refueling is often. One of our facilities has a CNG filling station but it's 15 min away so that's a pain when all our facilities have a fuel island with gas and diesel. We have a very large fleet and were required to have a certain percentage run on alternative fuels.
i hear u i had a 1 ton truck with a propane set up not very friendly on propane when loaded or working it ...It was my mobile service truck then i switched to a Diesel truck
#19
TaskForceLawnCare
TaskForceLawnCare
Check it out let the propane smoking hippie use his propane vehicles/mowers. Until my old steam powered mowers aren't working for me, then I'm not going to consider switching over. I'm going green already we only use alternative fuel vehicles, it the latest crazy out West it's called diesel, I'm pretty sure you can get it almost anywhere. Here's another great idea E85 do i want to drink it or put it in my car. It's simple moonshine and gasoline mixed, mixed with some hippie scientist and boom it's a great idea. Except now you get 1/2 the fuel milage you did before. One more thing Serve your country go to war for your country it's the "patriotic thing to do"
40 years in propane congrats I'll bet you and Hank Hill from Arlen Texas would have a lot to talk about.
40 years in propane congrats I'll bet you and Hank Hill from Arlen Texas would have a lot to talk about.
#20
Terry CleanFuel
I did serve as did my two sons. The only difference is that they fought against an enemy that is financed with US dollars spent on imported oil.
I'm not sure what you mean about the hippie reference and how it applies to propane. I don't understand the ethanol reference either. Ethanol does not do small engines any favors. Propane is ethanol free.
You know it's funny. Any gasmen can talk for hours on end (dependent upon how much beer is available) and it never fails. It's conversations like the one we're having is what we talk about.
No worries! Like I said, all I can do is present the facts. It's up to the individual to make an informed, intelligent decision.
Terry CleanFuel
Check it out let the propane smoking hippie use his propane vehicles/mowers. Until my old steam powered mowers aren't working for me, then I'm not going to consider switching over. I'm going green already we only use alternative fuel vehicles, it the latest crazy out West it's called diesel, I'm pretty sure you can get it almost anywhere. Here's another great idea E85 do i want to drink it or put it in my car. It's simple moonshine and gasoline mixed, mixed with some hippie scientist and boom it's a great idea. Except now you get 1/2 the fuel milage you did before. One more thing Serve your country go to war for your country it's the "patriotic thing to do"
40 years in propane congrats I'll bet you and Hank Hill from Arlen Texas would have a lot to talk about.
I did serve as did my two sons. The only difference is that they fought against an enemy that is financed with US dollars spent on imported oil.
I'm not sure what you mean about the hippie reference and how it applies to propane. I don't understand the ethanol reference either. Ethanol does not do small engines any favors. Propane is ethanol free.
You know it's funny. Any gasmen can talk for hours on end (dependent upon how much beer is available) and it never fails. It's conversations like the one we're having is what we talk about.
No worries! Like I said, all I can do is present the facts. It's up to the individual to make an informed, intelligent decision.
#21
Terry CleanFuel
If your plow runs continuously you may want to look at Liquified Natural Gas or LNG. It vastly improves the range of your vehicle vs CNG.
Blu.
Terry CleanFuel
We run a CNG 3/4 ton Chevy with a plow. When plowing it gets absolutely terrible mileage. The tank only holds equivalent of 15 gal is gas. So refueling is often. One of our facilities has a CNG filling station but it's 15 min away so that's a pain when all our facilities have a fuel island with gas and diesel. We have a very large fleet and were required to have a certain percentage run on alternative fuels.
If your plow runs continuously you may want to look at Liquified Natural Gas or LNG. It vastly improves the range of your vehicle vs CNG.
Blu.
#22
briggs
LMFAO this made me spit my coffee out and choke :thumbsup:
briggs
Check it out let the propane smoking hippie use his propane vehicles/mowers. Until my old steam powered mowers aren't working for me, then I'm not going to consider switching over. I'm going green already we only use alternative fuel vehicles, it the latest crazy out West it's called diesel, I'm pretty sure you can get it almost anywhere. Here's another great idea E85 do i want to drink it or put it in my car. It's simple moonshine and gasoline mixed, mixed with some hippie scientist and boom it's a great idea. Except now you get 1/2 the fuel milage you did before. One more thing Serve your country go to war for your country it's the "patriotic thing to do"
40 years in propane congrats I'll bet you and Hank Hill from Arlen Texas would have a lot to talk about.
LMFAO this made me spit my coffee out and choke :thumbsup:
#23
briggs
briggs
oh and i don't drink beer gasman i drink coffee don't like Booze not my style i don't do drugs ether ....
#24
BHLC
BHLC
I would love to run propane units, and someday I will!
#25
TaskForceLawnCare
Thank you for your service and thank you tax payers for buying gasoline, to help a weak enemy fight back. I've fought in 2 wars Operation Iraqi Freedom and again in Operation New Dawn your welcome. I've got a hardcore limp to show for it.
There is help for your drinking problem you might start by contacting your VA. Me personally not a drinker or drug user.
Thanks for letting me know propane is ethanol free. Just in case i wasn't comparing alternative fuels that are grossly over rated.
The intelligent and economic decision is use high efficacy small gas engines and diesel trucks.
TaskForceLawnCare
I did serve as did my two sons. The only difference is that they fought against an enemy that is financed with US dollars spent on imported oil. I'm not sure what you mean about the hippie reference and how it applies to propane. I don't understand the ethanol reference either. Ethanol does not do small engines any favors. Propane is ethanol free. You know it's funny. Any gasmen can talk for hours on end (dependent upon how much beer is available) and it never fails. It's conversations like the one we're having is what we talk about. No worries! Like I said, all I can do is present the facts. It's up to the individual to make an informed, intelligent decision.
Thank you for your service and thank you tax payers for buying gasoline, to help a weak enemy fight back. I've fought in 2 wars Operation Iraqi Freedom and again in Operation New Dawn your welcome. I've got a hardcore limp to show for it.
There is help for your drinking problem you might start by contacting your VA. Me personally not a drinker or drug user.
Thanks for letting me know propane is ethanol free. Just in case i wasn't comparing alternative fuels that are grossly over rated.
The intelligent and economic decision is use high efficacy small gas engines and diesel trucks.
#26
Terry CleanFuel
Thanks for your service from one vet to another. While Kohler and Kawasaki are making great strides in EFI, gasoline will still continue to be purchased from those who wish us ill will. That's a fact.
If you don't like propane that's fine with me. I stay busy just the same. You make many statements here without reference. Every statement I've made I've backed up with facts. Feel free to use the fuel of your choice no matter what the cost. That's ok!
Shoot, there are those who swear by tin-foil beanies.
Terry CleanFuel
Thank you for your service and thank you tax payers for buying gasoline, to help a weak enemy fight back. I've fought in 2 wars Operation Iraqi Freedom and again in Operation New Dawn your welcome. I've got a hardcore limp to show for it.
There is help for your drinking problem you might start by contacting your VA. Me personally not a drinker or drug user.
Thanks for letting me know propane is ethanol free. Just in case i wasn't comparing alternative fuels that are grossly over rated.
The intelligent and economic decision is use high efficacy small gas engines and diesel trucks.
Thanks for your service from one vet to another. While Kohler and Kawasaki are making great strides in EFI, gasoline will still continue to be purchased from those who wish us ill will. That's a fact.
If you don't like propane that's fine with me. I stay busy just the same. You make many statements here without reference. Every statement I've made I've backed up with facts. Feel free to use the fuel of your choice no matter what the cost. That's ok!
Shoot, there are those who swear by tin-foil beanies.
#27
Terry CleanFuel
And your reference to this would be...????????????????????????????
Seriously. I'd like to read about this reference. I'll wait...
Terry CleanFuel
Just in case i wasn't comparing alternative fuels that are grossly over rated.
.
And your reference to this would be...????????????????????????????
Seriously. I'd like to read about this reference. I'll wait...
#28
TaskForceLawnCare
No problem on average consumers using E85 get 26.5% worst mpg then when using gasoline. The second order effect is it cost them on average 22.9 cents per mile with E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
By relating the observed fuel economy to CO2 emission figures found in the EPA's Green Vehicle Guide it is determined that a 500 mile gasoline round trip produced 706.5 pounds of carbon dioxide. On E85, the CO2 emissions come to 703.1 pounds. The difference comes out in E85's favor, but only by a scant 0.5 percent. Call it a tie. This is certainly not the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions we had been led to expect.
Recent concerns have surfaced about the efficiency of ethanol production. Some critics have actually said that it is a "negative energy source," meaning that more energy is required to produce ethanol than it delivers as a fuel. Further doubts have surfaced about the true environmental benefits of ethanol and E85. And some critics have said that as farmers switch from growing corn for food production to growing it for ethanol, it could produce food shortages. Higher corn prices have already been reported.
As for propane now. The cost for the head damage caused by a dry gas stripping the lubrication off the intake valves and cylinder walls (the valve problem is eliminated with the injector system but the cylinder issue remains), as well as the need to have the propane system cleaned and recalibrated every 3 months or so for optimal performance (roughly $45 plus a new vaporizer diaphragm every 9-12 months.)
There is more to propane then just cost. There is a minimum of 20% performance degradation because of the thermal potential differentiation.
All those variables need to be included
The cost benefit does not outweign the cost "savings" and hassle factor because, at the end of the day, there are none.
TaskForceLawnCare
And your reference to this would be...???????????????????????????? Seriously. I'd like to read about this reference. I'll wait...
No problem on average consumers using E85 get 26.5% worst mpg then when using gasoline. The second order effect is it cost them on average 22.9 cents per mile with E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
By relating the observed fuel economy to CO2 emission figures found in the EPA's Green Vehicle Guide it is determined that a 500 mile gasoline round trip produced 706.5 pounds of carbon dioxide. On E85, the CO2 emissions come to 703.1 pounds. The difference comes out in E85's favor, but only by a scant 0.5 percent. Call it a tie. This is certainly not the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions we had been led to expect.
Recent concerns have surfaced about the efficiency of ethanol production. Some critics have actually said that it is a "negative energy source," meaning that more energy is required to produce ethanol than it delivers as a fuel. Further doubts have surfaced about the true environmental benefits of ethanol and E85. And some critics have said that as farmers switch from growing corn for food production to growing it for ethanol, it could produce food shortages. Higher corn prices have already been reported.
As for propane now. The cost for the head damage caused by a dry gas stripping the lubrication off the intake valves and cylinder walls (the valve problem is eliminated with the injector system but the cylinder issue remains), as well as the need to have the propane system cleaned and recalibrated every 3 months or so for optimal performance (roughly $45 plus a new vaporizer diaphragm every 9-12 months.)
There is more to propane then just cost. There is a minimum of 20% performance degradation because of the thermal potential differentiation.
All those variables need to be included
The cost benefit does not outweign the cost "savings" and hassle factor because, at the end of the day, there are none.
#29
Carscw
Carscw
We need a like button.
#30
briggs
Basically that's what i said in some of my posts but i didn't put down put down percentages ....I went threw this in in 80s and 90s when they propane in cop cars/taxis /service vans and trucks they got rid of it for some reason and i was told it was because it cost to much to maintain and use in a big fleet plus it was a pain to get not allot of people sold it ...Great post didn't think i was nuts :thumbsup:
briggs
No problem on average consumers using E85 get 26.5% worst mpg then when using gasoline. The second order effect is it cost them on average 22.9 cents per mile with E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
By relating the observed fuel economy to CO2 emission figures found in the EPA's Green Vehicle Guide it is determined that a 500 mile gasoline round trip produced 706.5 pounds of carbon dioxide. On E85, the CO2 emissions come to 703.1 pounds. The difference comes out in E85's favor, but only by a scant 0.5 percent. Call it a tie. This is certainly not the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions we had been led to expect.
Recent concerns have surfaced about the efficiency of ethanol production. Some critics have actually said that it is a "negative energy source," meaning that more energy is required to produce ethanol than it delivers as a fuel. Further doubts have surfaced about the true environmental benefits of ethanol and E85. And some critics have said that as farmers switch from growing corn for food production to growing it for ethanol, it could produce food shortages. Higher corn prices have already been reported.
As for propane now. The cost for the head damage caused by a dry gas stripping the lubrication off the intake valves and cylinder walls (the valve problem is eliminated with the injector system but the cylinder issue remains), as well as the need to have the propane system cleaned and recalibrated every 3 months or so for optimal performance (roughly $45 plus a new vaporizer diaphragm every 9-12 months.)
There is more to propane then just cost. There is a minimum of 20% performance degradation because of the thermal potential differentiation.
All those variables need to be included
The cost benefit does not outweign the cost "savings" and hassle factor because, at the end of the day, there are none.
Basically that's what i said in some of my posts but i didn't put down put down percentages ....I went threw this in in 80s and 90s when they propane in cop cars/taxis /service vans and trucks they got rid of it for some reason and i was told it was because it cost to much to maintain and use in a big fleet plus it was a pain to get not allot of people sold it ...Great post didn't think i was nuts :thumbsup:
#32
TaskForceLawnCare
TaskForceLawnCare
I'm just saying, that's all.
Anyway I've been in the actual lawn care business for a few minutes now. I've explored the alternative fuel option or "the fuels of future" and if it was worth it then i would do it.
The most efficient thing I've found that works for my company is buy country mark fuel/gas. For a spoiler alert it's American owned pumped and refined. Run American made equipment and drive American made trucks. When Miss Liberty calls we stand up and fight against the enemies of the United State. not asking why. we just do it for love of country and the person on your right and to your left. You do it because you're patriotic.
When we stop buying foreign oil, gas, fuel at the corner haji mart then that will force gas prices down. If propane works for you, and you can be somewhat positive it was drilled and bottled here then go for it. One by one the people could turn things around.
Thats the last thing I'll say on this topic.
Anyway I've been in the actual lawn care business for a few minutes now. I've explored the alternative fuel option or "the fuels of future" and if it was worth it then i would do it.
The most efficient thing I've found that works for my company is buy country mark fuel/gas. For a spoiler alert it's American owned pumped and refined. Run American made equipment and drive American made trucks. When Miss Liberty calls we stand up and fight against the enemies of the United State. not asking why. we just do it for love of country and the person on your right and to your left. You do it because you're patriotic.
When we stop buying foreign oil, gas, fuel at the corner haji mart then that will force gas prices down. If propane works for you, and you can be somewhat positive it was drilled and bottled here then go for it. One by one the people could turn things around.
Thats the last thing I'll say on this topic.
#33
Terry CleanFuel
Would you care to site your reference? This is a fairy tale. Propane adds to lubrication of the cylinder wall by not causing "washdown" of the cylinder. You couldn't be more wrong.
It's obvious you copied and pasted here. I am familiar with cobraboy's post. I am familiar with cobraboy. You sure you want to use HIM as your expert?
"Propane thermal differentiation"? Really? Perhaps you impress the peanut gallery here but, I tell you what, why don't you explain this "Propane thermal differentiation"? I know what you're talking about. Do you?
Exhaust valve recession hasn't been a problem since the use of unleaded fuel. And what needs to be cleaned in a propane system? That's just untrue! Propane is a solvent, for gosh sakes! There was a time when it was believed the earth was flat.
"Stripping the lubrication off the intake valves"? LOL! Ok, Einstein, just how are intake valves lubricated?
FWIW the intake valves were never a problem. The exhaust valves were back in the 70s but not since the advent of unleaded fuel giving birth to hardened valve seats.
As far as cost effective I offer that no commercial landscaper has ever, EVER gone back to gasoline in my years in the industry. Not one. How do you explain this? The average cost savings is 30% nationwide. Seriously, don't believe me? Google it!
I am happy to debate any "expert" on propane vs gasoline. I live for that. But honestly, you disappoint me.
You do this forum a disservice by posting this...
Terry CleanFuel
No problem on average consumers using E85 get 26.5% worst mpg then when using gasoline. The second order effect is it cost them on average 22.9 cents per mile with E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
By relating the observed fuel economy to CO2 emission figures found in the EPA's Green Vehicle Guide it is determined that a 500 mile gasoline round trip produced 706.5 pounds of carbon dioxide. On E85, the CO2 emissions come to 703.1 pounds. The difference comes out in E85's favor, but only by a scant 0.5 percent. Call it a tie. This is certainly not the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions we had been led to expect.
Recent concerns have surfaced about the efficiency of ethanol production. Some critics have actually said that it is a "negative energy source," meaning that more energy is required to produce ethanol than it delivers as a fuel. Further doubts have surfaced about the true environmental benefits of ethanol and E85. And some critics have said that as farmers switch from growing corn for food production to growing it for ethanol, it could produce food shortages. Higher corn prices have already been reported.
As for propane now. The cost for the head damage caused by a dry gas stripping the lubrication off the intake valves and cylinder walls (the valve problem is eliminated with the injector system but the cylinder issue remains), as well as the need to have the propane system cleaned and recalibrated every 3 months or so for optimal performance (roughly $45 plus a new vaporizer diaphragm every 9-12 months.)
There is more to propane then just cost. There is a minimum of 20% performance degradation because of the thermal potential differentiation.
All those variables need to be included
The cost benefit does not outweign the cost "savings" and hassle factor because, at the end of the day, there are none.
Would you care to site your reference? This is a fairy tale. Propane adds to lubrication of the cylinder wall by not causing "washdown" of the cylinder. You couldn't be more wrong.
It's obvious you copied and pasted here. I am familiar with cobraboy's post. I am familiar with cobraboy. You sure you want to use HIM as your expert?
"Propane thermal differentiation"? Really? Perhaps you impress the peanut gallery here but, I tell you what, why don't you explain this "Propane thermal differentiation"? I know what you're talking about. Do you?
Exhaust valve recession hasn't been a problem since the use of unleaded fuel. And what needs to be cleaned in a propane system? That's just untrue! Propane is a solvent, for gosh sakes! There was a time when it was believed the earth was flat.
"Stripping the lubrication off the intake valves"? LOL! Ok, Einstein, just how are intake valves lubricated?
FWIW the intake valves were never a problem. The exhaust valves were back in the 70s but not since the advent of unleaded fuel giving birth to hardened valve seats.
As far as cost effective I offer that no commercial landscaper has ever, EVER gone back to gasoline in my years in the industry. Not one. How do you explain this? The average cost savings is 30% nationwide. Seriously, don't believe me? Google it!
I am happy to debate any "expert" on propane vs gasoline. I live for that. But honestly, you disappoint me.
You do this forum a disservice by posting this...
#34
Carscw
Carscw
Why is it that you are the only expert on this subject?
Again I do not use a propane grill.
Again I do not use a propane grill.
#35
Terry CleanFuel
Actually there's a ton of us! I could post a list but you prolly wouldn't believe that either...
Let me google that for you
You know, with guidance you too could use a propane grill...
(YES! I DID notice your lack of a source!!!)
Terry CleanFuel
Why is it that you are the only expert on this subject?
Again I do not use a propane grill.
Actually there's a ton of us! I could post a list but you prolly wouldn't believe that either...
Let me google that for you
You know, with guidance you too could use a propane grill...
(YES! I DID notice your lack of a source!!!)
#36
Carscw
Carscw
Any idiot can use a propane grill but takes a man to use a charcoal grill.
#37
Terry CleanFuel
Thanks! I do.
Terry CleanFuel
Any idiot can use a propane grill but takes a man to use a charcoal grill.
Thanks! I do.
#38
TaskForceLawnCare
TaskForceLawnCare
Well let me apologize for doing this forum a disservice. Laughing.
I actually own and operate a lawn care company. Understandable, i will never know as much as gasman about propane. If I'd spent 35 years blowing the propane dong, then maybe i would benefit this forum. All i know is that propane obviously works great national lawn care chains, according to gasman.
I actually own and operate a lawn care company. Understandable, i will never know as much as gasman about propane. If I'd spent 35 years blowing the propane dong, then maybe i would benefit this forum. All i know is that propane obviously works great national lawn care chains, according to gasman.
#39
briggs
Propane dong ..............HA HA HA :thumbsup: that made me laugh ..After the crappy day i had thank u ..I needed that
briggs
Well let me apologize for doing this forum a disservice. Laughing.
I actually own and operate a lawn care company. Understandable, i will never know as much as gasman about propane. If I'd spent 35 years blowing the propane dong, then maybe i would benefit this forum. All i know is that propane obviously works great national lawn care chains, according to gasman.
Propane dong ..............HA HA HA :thumbsup: that made me laugh ..After the crappy day i had thank u ..I needed that
#40
Carscw
Carscw
The man is just here to inform us on the pros of propane.
And now we know where they got the character of hang hill from.
And now we know where they got the character of hang hill from.
#41
briggs
:laughing:
briggs
The man is just here to inform us on the pros of propane.
And now we know where they got the character of hang hill from.
:laughing:
#42
Terry CleanFuel
No, not according to me. READ, folks!
The propane industry has been good to me during my career, I won't debate that. I've travelled the US at the expense of Kawasaki putting on propane schools for their dealers. If you don't think it's right for you, that's great! Two hundred years ago the Earth was flat. 50 years ago the moon was only a dream.
I was invited here to pass-on a product that's not only good for the propane industry but good for commercial landscapers too. Each and every landscaper that has signed-on continues to grow and thrive using propane as their fuel of choice. If you don't believe me, ask around!
Now Justin (actually that's my son's name too), as a fellow Veteran I'll offer you a conversion free of charge on trial for your opinion. If it follows what I've been stating here, great! If not, return it and you owe me nothing. I'll pay the freight.
What do you say?
terry@cleanfuellpg.com
Terry CleanFuel
Well let me apologize for doing this forum a disservice. Laughing.
I actually own and operate a lawn care company. Understandable, i will never know as much as gasman about propane. If I'd spent 35 years blowing the propane dong, then maybe i would benefit this forum. All i know is that propane obviously works great national lawn care chains, according to gasman.
No, not according to me. READ, folks!
The propane industry has been good to me during my career, I won't debate that. I've travelled the US at the expense of Kawasaki putting on propane schools for their dealers. If you don't think it's right for you, that's great! Two hundred years ago the Earth was flat. 50 years ago the moon was only a dream.
I was invited here to pass-on a product that's not only good for the propane industry but good for commercial landscapers too. Each and every landscaper that has signed-on continues to grow and thrive using propane as their fuel of choice. If you don't believe me, ask around!
Now Justin (actually that's my son's name too), as a fellow Veteran I'll offer you a conversion free of charge on trial for your opinion. If it follows what I've been stating here, great! If not, return it and you owe me nothing. I'll pay the freight.
What do you say?
terry@cleanfuellpg.com
#43
Terry CleanFuel
Actually he's from Texas.
This has kinda been a baptism of fire for me. Usually folks take advantage of my knowledge and experience since I offer it free of charge.
Thankfully, I have broad shoulders and don't take it personally. Those that want to take advantage of propane do. Those that don't, don't. It doesn't bother me one way or the other...
If you'd like to debate on facts, debate with facts. All I've seen thusfar is conjecture.
Terry CleanFuel
The man is just here to inform us on the pros of propane.
And now we know where they got the character of hang hill from.
Actually he's from Texas.
This has kinda been a baptism of fire for me. Usually folks take advantage of my knowledge and experience since I offer it free of charge.
Thankfully, I have broad shoulders and don't take it personally. Those that want to take advantage of propane do. Those that don't, don't. It doesn't bother me one way or the other...
If you'd like to debate on facts, debate with facts. All I've seen thusfar is conjecture.
#44
BHLC
BHLC
What does it take to do a conversion?
#45
Terry CleanFuel
Typically three pieces: Regulator/lockoff assembly, supply tank and mounting, intake adaptor.
If you're in any way mechanically inclined you can do the conversion is an hour. What takes a bit of time is locating and mounting the supply tank.
You can read about the installation process here:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/691185_6b48c943d6e44fc3b531f98f713b1c80.pdf
Interesting: Eleven folks have contacted me thusfar about my offer. One is close by and I'll do the conversion for them myself. Unfortunately they can only report on the conversion process. We'll have to wait until next season to see how much they save. If the savings calculator is correct they'll save about $2000/year with the big riders. That's a three month ROI. Not bad?
Terry CleanFuel
What does it take to do a conversion?
Typically three pieces: Regulator/lockoff assembly, supply tank and mounting, intake adaptor.
If you're in any way mechanically inclined you can do the conversion is an hour. What takes a bit of time is locating and mounting the supply tank.
You can read about the installation process here:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/691185_6b48c943d6e44fc3b531f98f713b1c80.pdf
Interesting: Eleven folks have contacted me thusfar about my offer. One is close by and I'll do the conversion for them myself. Unfortunately they can only report on the conversion process. We'll have to wait until next season to see how much they save. If the savings calculator is correct they'll save about $2000/year with the big riders. That's a three month ROI. Not bad?