Export thread

Gidday,
Got problem with a M3414 chain saw.
It runs for about 3 to 4 minutes then cuts out and will restart after a minute or so.
I put a spark tester on it and watched it run, there was no problem with the spark and it was still throwing sparks as it died.
Tried changing plugs, no difference
Fresh fuel no difference .
Pressure test crankcase all fine, vacuum tested same, again fine.
Pulled the carb off & it pressure tested OK.

Now here is the interesting bit, the fuel supply line squirted fuel every where when I took it off as if the fuel tank was pressurising and forcing the fuel out.
So I tried it again and same thing, the tank seems to be presureizing.
Even just pumping the remote primer for long enough pressurizes the tank

Now I know very little about specific chainsaws and even less about this model.

So does the fuel cap on this model have a two way vent ? an one way vent or no vent ?
Any one have tis happen to them ?
Any ideas ? I am totally stumped on this one.
I even put a pair of kits through the carb ( cheap Chineese Walbro/ Zama hybrid ).

When you state it runs for 3 or 4 minutes, does that mean sitting at an idle or trying to use it at various rpm's?

The tank squirting fuel is normal. The fuel tank or gas cap has a one way vent in it. This allows for ambient air to rush in and replace the fuel being drawn out to the engine. Fuel off-gases, especially when warm. Ever notice a gas can that is sealed and sitting in the sun, and how it swells up? If there was another external vent then the saw may leak if positioned the wrong way. The theory is that the pressure that builds inside the tank should not be enough to overcome the needle and seat, thus keeping it from flooding when not in use. When working on it just crack the fuel cap a bit and it should relieve the pressure.

When you vacuum tested the crankcase did you rotate the crank shaft a few times while under vacuum? sometimes vacuum leaks are position in regards to the location of the crank in respect to the failed part of the seal.

Let us know

Thanks for that.
I try not to do hand helds because there is no way I can never recover the costs.
Most shops around here take $ 50 off you befoer they will even book in the job, but this one belongs to a good customer.
Oddly enough he will spend thousands on mowers but buys elcheapo hand tools.
Finally found a tiny crack in the carby by pressure testing it in boiling hot water.
Put a real Zama ( off an old stihl ) tossed the Chineese junk in the scrap aluminium bin ( I do some castings ).

Yep. It is hard to stay in the black when working on saws. There are so many variables to consider. Everyone thinks "it just needs a tune-up" or "carb just needs cleaned". I just kind of chuckle at it now. I love working on saws. The policy I have developed was a result of many unpaid hours of work. I tell every single customer that brings a saw into me that there is a $45 diagnostic fee. That 45 bucks buys and complete inspection: compression test, pressure and vacuum test, inspect fuel system, exhaust, timing and ignition, check the integrity of both tanks, check clutch, brake, sprocket, bar, chain....... you get the point. Then I make a list of what parts and repairs are needed. I then present the estimate, and it gets either a "yes" or "no". I make it known that it is an all or nothing deal.

This policy helps in a few ways. It keeps the lower end saws away. Most people won't put that kind of money in a Craftsman Saw. Even more important, it keeps my headaches down. It keeps me from wasting time working on junk. When I fix a saw and hand it back, I know it will be good. Believe it or not, since doing things this way, I have had a slight increase in business. It's the stuff I like working on too. I had a guy send a Husqvarna Bow saw from Florida to me in Ohio so I could repair it. This winter I will be doing a complete restoration on an 090G Stihl with the 5 ft bar that has the handle on the nose end. I usually stay a few saws behind on for rebuilds as well. It really beats the countless wasted hours on Craftsman, Poulan, newer Homelites, etc. etc. Enough of my ranting, lol I am glad you got it squared away.

Sharier, Good Post, Sir.

If I had to send a saw out for service, I'd send it to you. No question.

I am good at servicing most small engines (including 2 stroke), but don't like to work on Chainsaws. I had a Homelite (original from back in the day) and worked on it. I now have a Stihl FarmBoss. When it eventually requires service, I'll look up this post and contact you. For sure.

A little off topic, but since the OP fixed his problem, why not ask you this:

There is a LOT of debate out there on Chainsaws. Most center around Stihl VS Husqvarna. It's worse than a Ford/Chevy argument. In my opinion, BOTH are great saws. Each has their niche. I never had a problem with my Stihl saws clogging air filters as you see on many Youtube videos. I know that Stihl is "Generally" known for better low end torque for powering through tough wood, while Husqvarna is "Generally" known as a higher revving saw with quick cuts and timely "Final Cuts" when felling a tree, thus, better to get the operator out of the way quickly.

But now the QUESTION. I have heard from many techs that the Husqvarnas, because of the higher revs, require more service as their service life is slightly less than Stihl because of these higher revs. I have also heard that Huskys are slightly harder to work on. Do you agree with this? I am curious. I may pick up a Rancher just to compare the general quality to my Stihl. As I stated, I like both and think most operators could flip a coin on deciding between the two.

Thanks.

Don't get me wrong ,
While I try to stay away from chainsaws I usually can still fix them.
It just is not economic to do so particularly on an ad hoc basis.
I have about a dozen saws in the shop for loan so I fix customers saws when there is nothing to do sort of a loss limiter.
There is about 20 waiting to be looked at most of which come from the tip.
I get an ear full from the customers about the local saw shops. A lot of them take the quote fee, sit on the saw for 2 weeks or more then tell the customer it is uneconomic and try to sell them some more rubbish.
The last one I did was a 50cc Husky that had been run on strait fuel. It needed a quick clean up in the bore & new piston & rings. Not a cheap fix on a $300 saw but still worthwhile .
The repair quote he got was $ 350 with no mention of running dry. When I started to pull it down, obviously no one had pulled either the muffler nor carb so how it was diagnosed is beyond me.
They did offer him a $ 150 trade in on a new saw though.

The customer with the McCulloch gave me a Shindawa which he was not interested in fixing because he got a $ 400 quote on it.
It was a $ 1200 saw when new but he considered $ 400 too dear when he can buy a new "brand name" one for less.
I just can not get it into their heads that McCulloch is now Chineese garbage & the $ 200 Stihl's are made in Brazil, most of the Huskies are now made in China to a price.

And oddly enough, bt3 seems to have it down pat.
The landlord has a Rancher 55 & I have a Stihl 08 S & Stihl 036 both bought new.
when we are clearing the fence line or removing fallen trees, he knocks off all the stuff 4" or less & I do all the heavy cutting . We found it was much faster that way.
We are both running Carlton chain & I sharpen them all on the same Jolly grinder, usually at the same times but the Husky holds it's edge a lot longer than either Stihls.

Yep, I agree with both the previous statements. I won't even work on McCulloch stuff anymore. It 's too hard to chase parts. I don't know from one week to the next who even owns them. It is a shame that someone wouldn't consider a Shin as a name brand. I have always liked their equipment. For a while they lead the market in blowers for CFM's measured at the nozzle. I think it was the EB8520. Heavy but powerful. I have always liked their saws too.

As far as the Stihl and Husq debate. I concur. With respect to both companies "dumbing" down their products a bit. Husq still has an impressive XP line and Stihl makes some great higher end equipment too. I prefer the late model stuff. I own a Stihl 009l and an 036 PRO. I have yet to find myself in a situation that I couldn't handle with these two. If that where to happen, I built my father-in-law a pretty sweet 044 MAG. I'm sure if I asked nicely he'd let me use it. LOL. In respect to "higher rev's" requiring more service due to wearing out faster, it makes sense. Heat and friction are two things that aid in wear. The more times the piston travels its path in the cylinder, the faster it reaches its end point. If speed is more of a factor than length of time, then heat comes into play as well. Meaning that if 2 saws of the same model are used for the same length of time but one saw is set at a higher RPM, it would stand to reason that the saw with the higher RPM will show more wear. In regards to bertsmobile1's comment about chains, I would say that makes sense. If you are using the Stihl to cut the bigger stuff, then the chain is taking bigger bites at a slower speed. The Husq is reaching RPM's faster and cutting smaller chunks. It probably makes full use of the bar oil too. I like Carlton chain too. I use it and couldn't be happier.

When I compare my stuff with a same class Husq model, the specs are pretty even. But I don't get the opportunity to run many different models of the Husqvarna line for comparison. I hope to change that soon. I like what I have experienced with Dolmar saws too. I hope to get my hands on a few of those as well.

Stihl 036 PRO: 62 cc. / 3.75 c.i. / Bore 48 / Stroke 34 / Brake HP 4.5 / Around 13 # / low speed 2,800 rpm / high 13,500

Husq 262XP 62 cc. / 3.8 c.i. / Bore 48 / Stroke 34 / Brake HP 4.5/ Around 13 # / low speed 2,700 rpm / high 13,500

I am buy no means and expert on any of this. I can only share what my experience has shown and I am always open to learning from other's experiences.

Thanks guys.

bt3
Re: problem with M3414 chainsaw

Sharier, Good Post, Sir.

If I had to send a saw out for service, I'd send it to you. No question.

I am good at servicing most small engines (including 2 stroke), but don't like to work on Chainsaws. I had a Homelite (original from back in the day) and worked on it. I now have a Stihl FarmBoss. When it eventually requires service, I'll look up this post and contact you. For sure.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words. I like the Snapper in your avatar. The first mower I ever worked on was a v21 that I restored. I was reminded of this yesterday when I found some pieces parts laying on a shelf in my garage. I like the simplicity in the design of their drive systems. If any design makes it more than a few decades without major changes, it must be okay!

d_sharier said:

Thanks for the kind words. I like the Snapper in your avatar. The first mower I ever worked on was a v21 that I restored. I was reminded of this yesterday when I found some pieces parts laying on a shelf in my garage. I like the simplicity in the design of their drive systems. If any design makes it more than a few decades without major changes, it must be okay!

Click to expand...

Thanks!

That Snapper almost caused me a divorce. Literally. My Wife forbid me to buy it in 1987 because it was almost $700 back then. With the accessories I purchased along with it (extra chute, bag, high-lift kit, Mulch Plug and DeThatcher) it was well over $1,000. That was a LOT of bucks for a young married couple back then. She said, "NO!" in a big way. I said I was buying it anyway because it would last a lifetime. She moved out for two weeks to live with her parents. Worse fight we ever had. But guess what! That mower is STILL going strong. It's a tank. That commercial Wisconsin Robin engine is AMAZING. I like my LawnBoy mowers for their light weight and horsepower to weight ratios, but the Snapper is the proverbial TANK. It weighs a ton, and it was very expensive back in the day, but it was worth every penny. Potential divorce and all! :smile:

I had an awesome Homelite circa 1990 that was a spectacular saw. I wish I still had it. In hindsight, I NEVER would have sold it. Fully adjustable choke, primer bulb, and on/off rocker switch. Just a great saw. It was only 14 inch and really just a trim saw and I eventually needed a real workhorse for my property so I sold it and bought a Stihl MS250. That Stihl fell over 30 huge trees, trimmed and cut them into firewood. It also cut down a few of my neighbors trees. I debated on putting an 18" bar on it (came with a 16" back when I bought it - now they come 18") but decided to sell it as well and move on to a larger FarmBoss. I could not kill that MS250. Truly. It was a great saw. The FarmBoss has more power and I'm more comfortable with it's power to spin an 18" bar than I was with the MS250 through hard wood, but I still liked that MS250 very much.

Before I did my research on getting a FarmBoss, I thoroughly researched a Husky Rancher. I talked to some professionals on the virtues of both saws. They filled me in on the points I outlined above. I also talked to a dual repair shop that repairs both Stihl and Husky, and he was the one that told me that Husky saws need repairs a tad more often because of the higher revs wearing them out sooner than Sthhl. He also stated that Husky were a little harder to work on and get parts for. This was HIS opinion, so no flames to anyone reading that, please. I happen to like BOTH manufacturers. But you are right, Sharier. I think BOTH manufacturers have dumbed down their consumer saws a bit. Still, I have no complaints on my Stihl. Great saw. I just wish I still had my original Homelite for trim work. THAT was a GREAT saw. Too bad that brand has been cheapened. It was an Icon back in the day.

Excellent thread. The best info I have read on chainsaws here. Do not stop, gentlemen. Please respond to specific problems in the forum.

motoman said:

Excellent thread. The best info I have read on chainsaws here. Do not stop, gentlemen. Please respond to specific problems in the forum.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Yes, we have a great group here, and luckily, not too many trolls flaming for the sake of throwing insults around. We are here to help and share what we have learned.

I love talking Chainsaws as apart from my mower work, I use my saw the most because of my heavily wooded lots that are now in the midst of old aging trees that need constant trimming if not felling. With the two Titans Stihl and Husqvarna tipping the heavyweight championship both ways, it's a very interesting debate. Truly, I really do wonder what would have happened if Homelite had been managed differently and they had remained true to their original vision of amazing, reliable and stellar trimmers and saws and had avoided being sold and gutted. I suspect they would be another titan today. Alas, it is not to be. At least we have two great saws to choose from for the homeowner. Some would argue that there are more than two and that's fine. If the saw runs great for you and does the job, that's what's important. I CAN remember when McCulloch was considered a Titan in the Chainsaw world. They still may be to some.

People are the problem.
Indian used to make the worlds best motorcycle in the 20' & 30's
A HD is what you bought if you could not afford an Indian.
HD survived, Indian didn't.
HD is now Amercia's only mass motorcycle manufacturer and Indian is a name used to market stuff to people who do not know any better.

I use this little story all the time to explain this reluctance of the market to understand & purchase good quality ans as such the reluctance of companies to make high quality goods.

There were two very famous Henry's in automotive history and both of them started companies that still exist ( in name at least ) today bearing their family name.
One made the best vehicles possible, testing them to failure, then improving the part that failed and testing again.
He scoured the entire world to find the best most reliable components to put in his cars then spent years making them even better
His cars were so good they carried a lifetime warrantee that carried on from the original purchaser to their next direct generation.

The other also tested his cars till the first major part failed, then downgraded every thing else so it would fail around the same time.
His vehicles we so bad they just held together long enough to pass a limited time / mileage period.
In fact his first big offering was so badly made it gained mythical status due to the myriad of ingenious improvisied repairs carried out to keep them on the road.
He scoured the planet always looking for the cheapest part that was just barely good enough to do the job

One man was so successful that he and his family for several generations were amongst the wealthiest people in the world.
The other man died in relative obscurity with barely enough to cover the cost of his funeral despite the fact that his vehicles adorned nearly every palace in the world.

One mans name was Royce, the other Ford guess which descriptions go with the names.

Bt3, Your Snapper story belongs in the "highlight reel". It was my experience that the first year of marriage is hell anyway, it would have been a good time for me to sneak something like that in. LOL. As far as Homelite goes, man they made some great saws. I still actively search for the old Super XL's ( blue and the red ones) and some of the older models. The Super XL's were some bad XXX saws. Easy to work on, tons of power, and bullet proof. I don't know why Homelite didn't jump on the AV train early enough. That was the downside to some of the bigger units. Cut with a SXLAO for a few hours and it becomes difficult to eat dinner that evening. Arms still vibrating . LOL. Now they have went the way of McCulloch, Jonsered, Troy-Bilt, Cub, Bolens, most of the old titans. It is sad that the founders of these companies built a name and reputation that meant something, only to be sold out to the highest bidder that rapes the name into bankruptcy making as much profit as they can along the way. I can't tell you how many times I have heard "Man!, My grandpa's Cub is still going strong and he bought it before I was born, What do you mean mine is scrap?"


bertsmobile1, Kudos on one of the best analogies I have heard to date. :thumbsup: People are the problem. When I say things like that people take offense to it. My response is, if you are offended by that statement, you fall into the problem category. It has been my experience that (generally speaking) people only want the best possible outcome, requiring the least possible amount of effort, without having to educate themselves, and most importantly " the cheapest price possible" It is all a scam. Engineering and quality are no longer a factor in business. It is all marketing. Marketing is the big section in the 'pie charts" these days. I see it all of the time, flat out lies about products, complete misrepresentations that go unchecked. It is like people get hypnotized by these flashy lights and catchy buzz words and pay absolutely no attention the the only thing that is tangible, the product. In this industry my favorite is "Commercial Grade" Most people read statements like that and give zero thought to what it is actually saying. They say "commercial grade" great it is a commercial unit!!!!Gotta get me one!!. Paying no attention to the fact that labeling something with those words actually states "This is not a commercial unit, but it is commercial grade" I see it all over this industry, companies label things like this to grab the attention of the "low-information crowd" The worst part is, these companies get your money one way or the other. They do a really good job of playing off people's need for instant gratification. "I gotta have cheap" so I'll buy this $120 throw-away saw and replace it every 2 seasons, instead of spending $400 or $500 on one that will last 15 or 20 years. I am a huge Lawn-Boy fan. I had a few guys ask me what I thought about these new "Saber Edge" mowers that feature a LB cloned deck. It falls into this very category. I wrote my 2 cents on the topic in another thread on this forum. I remember being taught (when I was a kid, only 33 now so not long ago) that our country was built on innovation, new ideas, and quality. It seems now people as a whole are only concerned with their immediate need, in their immediate time. This type of think only offer regression, not progression. It is sad, but now I am getting political so I am going to end my incoherent babbling and finish my coffee.

Good day gentleman

Well...some forums have a "front porch" section for philosophical discussions . Anyway the intents are good. We await , I believe, the day when manufacturing slowly creeps back into the US (Australia?). The Chinese worker is slowly pushing his wage up and driving stuff to Vietnam and India. I like some Japanese cars. Yesterday I heard China will export cars to the US big time in about 5 years, but sales here are something else. Cut Indian some slack . Their newest owners have produced some good stuff recently. The new Scout is really pretty impressive. I really like the direct side view (but that's the only view). In the market for a lathe and fearful of good ole US stuff (WWII) I am sifting the Asian brands. The mainline China units come with sand in the gears and are a kit, but do work. Taiwan stuff is better. Keep up this dialogue. It helps educate younger readers.Cheers.:laughing:

Getting way off topic, but once an industry has closed down it is almost impossible to restart it.
go to the stock market and say "I want to raise $3, billion to buy some land, build a factory to make better quality chain saws" and see how far you get.
You can substitute Chain saw for any manufactured item.
Go to the stock market and say "I want to raise $ 300, billion to trade synthetic futures " and you will be drowning in cash.

Any company that announces it will be upgrading its factory to make more product , at a higher quality and thus a much greater profit will instantly have the hedge funs short sell it into oblivion after which the corperate raider will walk in and make a killing liquidating the companies assets.
If Briggs announced tomorrow thta it was going to close every plant in the USA, Mexico, Canada& Brazil and move all it's manufaturing to China it's share price would skyrocket

That is the way unbridaled capitalism works.
Now the UK got away with it by becomming the worlds bankers, but the US won't.
The only thing that keeps the US afloat at the moment is most of the worlds oil futures are traded through US Futures markets thus the world needs US $.
The econd that stops happening your $ will drop like a stone and the US will be bankrupt.
This is the real reason why the US went into Iraq.
Saddam Husain had transferred all of Iraqu's oil futures to the Frankfurt Futures exchange in response to the tightening of sanctions
OZ will do OK till all the holes in the ground are depleted , then we will be in worse state as ther is no reason for Australia to exist in world views.
But the Land of the Free & the home of the brave is going to be in deep doggie dun it