Pro turn 60 Briggs or Kawa

[Mad Mackie]

My Scag Tiger Cub came with a 26 Briggs Intek/ELS engine. At around 400 hours it started to sneeze at idle. long story short it had stuck rings on the L/H cylinder as a leakdown test indicated. I decided to replace it with a new 30 HP Briggs Professional Turf Series engine as this was the most economical direction to go. As I had the two engines together along with their parts manuals, I compared items as best I could without tearing down both engines. The first thing that I noticed was the intake manifold on the Pro Turf engine was an aluminum casting as compared to the plastic one on the ELS engine. Some of us are aware of the problems with the plastic manifold and I had replaced the one on my 26 ELS engine. The cooling system was much larger, the Cyclonic Air Filtration System looked to be a great improvement and I took it all apart to look it over. There were some external crankcase differences indicating internal changes which the parts manuals also indicated. These engines now have an engine oil cooler located where it gets some of the incoming cooling airflow passing thru it. This engine now has about 120 hours on it, it would have had more, but I am gradually decreasing the number of customers that I have and with the changeover to mulching rather than collection, the operating time has decreased. I'm pleased with this engine, it uses less fuel than the former 26 ELS engine and by far fewer air filter changes needed. At 100 hours I switched it over to full synthetic engine oil of the Briggs recommended viscosity. The oil consumption has stabilized, although wasn't very much, and without having to stop and empty the collection bags, I have operated this machine engine nonstop for up to 4 hours, and then only for a potty break or a refuel!!!
Bear in mind that I also have a Vanguard powered Ingersoll GT, an Intek powered wood chipper and a Hustler X-ONE with a Kawi FX730V engine, and I do limited service on power equipment, mostly generators in the last few years with the storms and power outages that have become more frequent.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[wdrdoctor]

My Scag Tiger Cub came with a 26 Briggs Intek/ELS engine. At around 400 hours it started to sneeze at idle. long story short it had stuck rings on the L/H cylinder as a leakdown test indicated. I decided to replace it with a new 30 HP Briggs Professional Turf Series engine as this was the most economical direction to go. As I had the two engines together along with their parts manuals, I compared items as best I could without tearing down both engines. The first thing that I noticed was the intake manifold on the Pro Turf engine was an aluminum casting as compared to the plastic one on the ELS engine. Some of us are aware of the problems with the plastic manifold and I had replaced the one on my 26 ELS engine. The cooling system was much larger, the Cyclonic Air Filtration System looked to be a great improvement and I took it all apart to look it over. There were some external crankcase differences indicating internal changes which the parts manuals also indicated. These engines now have an engine oil cooler located where it gets some of the incoming cooling airflow passing thru it. This engine now has about 120 hours on it, it would have had more, but I am gradually decreasing the number of customers that I have and with the changeover to mulching rather than collection, the operating time has decreased. I'm pleased with this engine, it uses less fuel than the former 26 ELS engine and by far fewer air filter changes needed. At 100 hours I switched it over to full synthetic engine oil of the Briggs recommended viscosity. The oil consumption has stabilized, although wasn't very much, and without having to stop and empty the collection bags, I have operated this machine engine nonstop for up to 4 hours, and then only for a potty break or a refuel!!!
Bear in mind that I also have a Vanguard powered Ingersoll GT, an Intek powered wood chipper and a Hustler X-ONE with a Kawi FX730V engine, and I do limited service on power equipment, mostly generators in the last few years with the storms and power outages that have become more frequent.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

So do you think that a brand new mower engine should get approx 100 hrs on it before switching to and using fully synthetic engine oil?

 

[Mad Mackie]

Definitely put at least 100 hours on a new engine before switching to full synthetic engine oil. A new engine needs time to break in and seat everything.
Years back most of us that rebuilt engines used non detergent engine oil for initial breakin. Using non detergent oil for breakin allows the engine to "coke up" internally, which means to plug and fill the small leaks and allow the piston rings to smooth the cylinder walls, seat in, minimize blowby and maximizing compression.
The use of non detergent oil has pretty much gone away along with it's availability, bringing the initial use of detergent and multi-weight oils for breakin and regular use to the forefront.
Although some would disagree, full synthetic engine oils have a "detergent" quality to them that is much stronger than what is called Dino or fossil oil. Using full synthetic oil in an engine before it is fully broke in can prevent the needed breakin process to happen, the result being higher oil consumption, lower power output, excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, increased blowby and shortened engine life.
Some folk feel that 50 hours is enough before changing to full synthetic engine oil. I have had new repower engines on my machines that took about 100 hours before oil consumption settled down and fuel consumption stabilized and the reason that I recommend 100 hours for breakin.
Always consult the correct engine operators manual for manufacturers recommendations.
Kawasaki fairly recently started marketing full synthetic engine oil, Briggs did it many years ago. Not much into newer Kohlers, so I don't know about them.
Mad Mackie in CT

 

[wdrdoctor]

Would shell rotella be an oil you would recommend for the first 100 hrs before going full synthetic?

 

[Mad Mackie]

Shell Rotella comes in 15w-40 or straight 30 that I've ever seen available. When I had two machines with Onan P Series engines, I used 15W-40 Rotella most of the time as it was OK to use in both the engines and the hydraulic drive systems. I have used Rotella 30 in some of my Briggs engines in recent times, but did switch to 5W-30 full synthetic in all on my Briggs engines as they passed 100 hours give or take.
When I had diesel trucks, I bought 15W-40 Rotella in five gallon pails, only diesel that I have now is a VW Jetta TDI and I use Rotella T6 5W-40 full synthetic in it as it is a 2003 with a fuel injection pump.
I just went out in my shop to check the records on the 30 HP Briggs Commercial Turf engine on my Scag Tiger Cub and I used Shell Rotella T1 straight 30 in this engine for the first 100 hours and then switched it to 5W-30 full synthetic Valvoline.
My Hustler X-One with a Kawasaki FX730V with about 270 hours still gets straight 30. It is used at a cemetery and I don't see it very often as a crew does the mowing there.
So to directly answer your question, I see no problem using Shell Rotella T1 30 weight for the initial 100 or so hours as long as the operators manual shows that 30 weight is acceptable. Continued use is OK particularly in warmer climates.
Just a side note, my 1978 Peterbilt with a 425 Cat engine went 1.2 million miles on mostly Shell Rotella 15W-40 with Lucas additives before an out of frame overhaul was needed. I do know that the EPA has forced Shell and others to reduce the lead content in their engine oils, so Shell Rotella is not what it was a few years back, but still great oil!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[Ric]

Comparing the Kawasaki FS730v vs the 25HP Briggs commercial turf on the pro-turn 60. After running all the comparisons, for me and my situation it comes down to the kawa costing $500 more and the torque ratings.
Torque at ~3600 rpm
Kawa: 35 ftlb
Briggs: 27 ftlb (i had to call briggs for this number, what a pain)

so is the 8ftlb hit noticeable?? This is what i am on the fence about.I don't plan on mulching or cutting in a rain storm. my property is fairly smooth and i cut it regularly so i am not wacking away at foot tall grass.

Not sure where you found those figures but JFY info. the FS 730 24HP is specs are FS730V | Kawasaki - Engines, Replacement Parts, and Power Products

Specifications
Displacement	726 cc (44.3 cu. in.)
Number of Cylinders	2
Bore x Stroke	3.1 x 3.0 in. (78 x 76mm)
Compression Ratio	8.2:1
Oil capacity w/filter	2.2 U.S. qt ( 2.1 liters)
Maximum Power	24.0 hp (17.9 kW) at 3,600 RPM
Maximum Torque	40.0 ft lbs (54.2 Nｷm) at 2,400 RPM
Dry weight w/o muffler	91.5 lbs (41.5 kg)

 

[Ric]

So do you think that a brand new mower engine should get approx 100 hrs on it before switching to and using fully synthetic engine oil?

As far as when to switch from conventional to synthetic, Kohler says to run their engines for 50 hours before switching to synthetic if you choose but they don't make any recommendations to do so. As far as the recommendations for the Kawasaki engines, they recommend an API SJ or higher class. They make no recommendations for using synthetic.

Scag site states, Since each engine is warranted by the individual engine manufacturer, please refer to your engine owner's manual for specific recommendations. You may also contact the engine manufacturer by visiting their web site.

 

[highlift60]

Definitely the Kawasaki hand down. Every dealer I went to recently all agreed on one thing: don't touch anything from Briggs or Kohler with a 10 foot pole unless it's a Vanguard or Command. It's funny how much conflicting advice I got, yet they all agreed on engine selection. Was also told to wait till 50 hours to use synthetic, although Briggs specifically states you don't have to in their FAQ pages. They actually say you can even use synthetic for break-in but it's not "cost effective".