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I have a '98 Cub Cadet 2165, that the engine has pretty much gone to the dogs (burns nearly 1/2 qt per mowing, own stock in spark plug company). I aquired a 670 Predator engine, and was wondering if anyone else has done something like this? If so, what is needed to fit the driveshaft to the engine, and how to make an exhaust fit?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you Google something like that you'll get quite of few hits,u-tube ect. Looks lots of guys done it. On different ones but might give you some ideas...

Preditors are just a cheap & nasty copy of obsolete Honda engines.
Honda still make stationary engines so in the worst case you might need to buy a new flywheel to hook it up.
Dingo & Kanga stand on loaders exported to the USA before they got banned on safety grounds so the locally made copy had no competition were all powered by Honda stationary engines.
Thus the dealers should have plenty of mufflers around that will fit your engine if it came without one.

Also watch the shaft heights they changed over the years.
If the Pred is lower, you can pack it out but if it is higher you are in that barbed wire canoe up my favourite creek.

You will also have to cut off all of the wiring plugs.
AFAIK you can still buy the Kohler ones for the Cub so you can keep the mower wiring original.
The muffler will be massive problem because the Kohler one will not fit the Honda clone and you will not be able to modify the Kohler one to fit, nor can you modify the Clone one to fit.
So you will need to modify the hood to give the clone muffler clearance or just toss the hood all together, it is mostly an ornament but you will need to provide some protection for the PTO belt & pulley and fab some sort of support for the muffler as well.

Seems to me it would be easier to overhaul the existing engine.

Yes, it would be easier, but it wouldn't be cheaper. The 16 HP Vanguard is expensive to rebuild (a lot of parts are no longer available), the engines are prone to overheating, and they are underpowered when running a 48" deck.

I've regretted getting the 16 HP engine since shortly after buying it; I wished that I spent the extra ~$250 and gotten the 18 HP Kohler instead. I think I would have been happier.

cpurvis said:

Seems to me it would be easier to overhaul the existing engine.

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Have you rebuilt a Kohler engine reciently ?
Not financially viable even when buying parts at wholesale prices and doing the labour yourself

It will be a lot easier if you go with a Kohler.
If you search the surplus engine suppliers you can generally get a replacement at a reasonable price.
with horizontals you need to watch the shaft height as longer stroked engines can have higher PTO shaft heights where as it is not so much a problem with vertical shaft engines.
It is your money but I would be inclined to go with a superceeded / surplus Kohler and flog the preditor.
Despite my disparaging remarks about them they are a reasonable replacement for anything that was previously Honda powered and for vertical shafts it is not so much of a problem.
However with your 2000 series Cub you have a very confined space to work in and have both space & alignment restrictions because it has to fit between the drive shaft at one end & the PTO belt pulleys at the front while trying to squeeze the muffler in without fouling on the hood
And when all that is done you still need to be able to get in there to thread new PTO belts in which is not exactly easy with the original muffler.

Look up small engine wharehouse.com

bertsmobile1 said:

Have you rebuilt a Kohler engine reciently ?
Not financially viable even when buying parts at wholesale prices and doing the labour yourself

Click to expand...

You have to be kidding.

"Easier" and "cheaper" to adapt a completely different engine to take the original engine's place? As compared to buying a set of rings and a gasket set?

To each his own. I know which path I'd take.

cpurvis said:

You have to be kidding.

"Easier" and "cheaper" to adapt a completely different engine to take the original engine's place? As compared to buying a set of rings and a gasket set?

To each his own. I know which path I'd take.

Click to expand...

I am yet to find a smokey Kohler than does not need a rebore.
Kohler do not retail oversize pistons or undersize con rods.
As you know, caught early , ie before you start fouling plugs then it is just a set of rings & gaskets , down here about $ 250 in parts + 4 hours labour.

If it needs a new shot block then a new engine is the better way to go.
Briggs do supply oversize pistons & rings + undersized rods so they are economic to repair.

Same with Briggs; their engines don't have any oversize pistons available, and I don't know of anyone who makes aftermarket oversize pistons for them, either.

Also, I'm not all that concerned with the side panels and hood. A hammer, wire-feed welder and tin snips will make allowances, because hey, it's a 20-year old garden tractor, which is why I'm not going to spend $1600-$2100 for a new engine repower kit. The biggest concern is the muffler; I can build one, but it's much easier to buy one that will fit. The crankshaft is the same height, the block mount-pattern is the same; the only concern is overall length to the deck clutch, and that can be remedied with the length of the crank-to-hydrostat shaft adapter.

bert, I too thought he was dealing with a Kohler but I think the engine is a Briggs.

OP--Before you rip into what is a 'classic' lawn and garden tractor with torches and crowbars, give this guy a call. He was able to supply me with parts for a 1965 B&S 3 hp engine, including valve guides, for an engine that didn't even HAVE valve guides. His prices are good, too. No guarantee that he can do for you what he did for me, but it's worth a try. Then your classic lawn and garden tractor will still be intact and it's (increasing) value will be preserved when you go to sell it. Good luck, whichever way you decide.

https://www.smallenginepartssuppliers.com/index.htm

This place also carries a lot of parts. When they couldn't get what I needed, they referred me to the place listed above.
https://lawnparts.com/

efred said:

Yes, it would be easier, but it wouldn't be cheaper. The 16 HP Vanguard is expensive to rebuild (a lot of parts are no longer available), the engines are prone to overheating, and they are underpowered when running a 48" deck.

I've regretted getting the 16 HP engine since shortly after buying it; I wished that I spent the extra ~$250 and gotten the 18 HP Kohler instead. I think I would have been happier.

Click to expand...

The Vanguard is a near commercial engine, iron sleeved bore. I'm surprised it has bit the dirt this quickly. I would sure look into a rebore and
pistons/rings with some valve lapping before getting into a mess of retrofitting a different motor.

It's 20 years old, and has had an oil consumption problem for nearly all of those 20 years, due to their stupid early dipstick design. Several years ago, I discovered a mouse nest around one of the heads, causing a lot of problems on that side of the engine. The 16 hp engine in the 2165's has always had a cooling problem, because they used a smaller flywheel and cooling fan. The body on it is no prize, either; the power-coat paint has peeled off in several places over the years, and there are several dents and scrapes all over the body, rendering it undesirable for restoration. I've definitely gotten my money's worth out of it.

IT'S ALIVE!!!! (Finally!)
a
I finally got everything together, and after a few diagnostic problems (pto would shut off the engine, fixed it with a new pto), and got nearly all the body panels together (hood won't fit, due to Predator's exhaust/muffler), I was able to mow my lawn the other day. Even with deep grass (4-7" deep), it mowed it with few problems, mostly due to the belts slipping in the deep grass. Man, 4hp+ makes a world of difference (and ~400 rpms more doesn't hurt, either).

One odd thing, is when mowing up steep hills, when the mower levels off, it will smoke for several seconds, then clear up. I talked with a mower mechanic, and he claimed that most, if not all, air-cooled engines will smoke when mowing up hills.

On a related topic, does anyone know where I can get ~ 30mm, or 1 3/16" OD exhaust tubing, and get it bent? I need new exhaust pipes to fit to a custom-built muffler.

I've ran many mowers( and other 4 cycle equipment) up hills, they never smoked.......

I talked with my friend, a 35-yr Master mechanic, and he wondered if the engine had a touch too much oil in the crankcase. After the first running, it hasn't smoked since.

I may contact Predator to get info direct from the horse's mouth.