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I read, on another site, that a predator ignition coil will fit an older Briggs engine.
Both being 5hp horizontal engines.
Anyone know if this is true?
It would eliminate points and is a lot cheaper than the Briggs type coil.
Sincerely,
Nessmuck.

Never heard of being able to do this, but I also say never say never. Would I try, NO.

if you're going to try a predator coil, you might as well buy a aftermarket of the Briggs conversion coil on Amazon or eBay... it should at least fit.

Just remember old cast cylinder blocks can't use Magnetron coils due to being reverse flywheel magnets polarity.

I'll check my block, thank you. I think it's alumumnumanum.
Predator coil is 1/3 the price, so just hoping.

do you have the model # of the 5hp briggs?

I tried to attach photos.

Considering that the Predators are a Honda Clone I would be very surprised if they would firstly fit ( as in bolt on )
Then if they bolted on then there is the question of weather they are timed the same
But of course if you read it on the WWW it must be true .
Good luck.

StarTech said:

Just remember old cast cylinder blocks can't use Magnetron coils due to being reverse flywheel magnets polarity.

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You can use the original coil if good and use a TCI two wire module and reverse the wires. Ground - to coil and + to ground.

Nessmuck said:

I tried to attach photos.

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upload them to an image hosting website and copy n paste the link here

bertsmobile1 said:

Considering that the Predators are a Honda Clone I would be very surprised if they would firstly fit ( as in bolt on )
Then if they bolted on then there is the question of weather they are timed the same
But of course if you read it on the WWW it must be true .
Good luck.

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Predator engines are overhead valve push rod and Honda's are overhead cam with a timing belt. Predator engines are closer to a newer Brigg's engine than a Honda.

rustycat said:

Predator engines are overhead valve push rod and Honda's are overhead cam with a timing belt. Predator engines are closer to a newer Brigg's engine than a Honda.

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The predator's (at least the 3hp, 6.5hp and 8 hp) are clones of the Honda GX engines, which are OHV, not OHC.

No body has both, to try and see?

If the coil physically fits the mounting post it should work. I've mounted coils on just one post because it was to narrow and it worked. I've put solid state coils on old Briggs with points and condenser and it worked. It doesn't hurt to try.

I don't have much money, and the predator coil is cheaper to buy.

We still haven't found out what model your engine is, that way we can find a aftermarket coil, if made, that you know will at least fit.

You can get Briggs coils for $10 on ebay. Get the part number and go with the cheapest.

rustycat said:

If the coil physically fits the mounting post it should work. I've mounted coils on just one post because it was to narrow and it worked. I've put solid state coils on old Briggs with points and condenser and it worked. It doesn't hurt to try.

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Worked properly or fired & ran ?
And you checked the engine with a strobe light to make sure the spark was happening a the right time
or
It ran for long enough to sell it to some one where a year later the engine siezed because it was out of time and overheated ?

And I find it very hard to believe that a magneto module mounted with a single bolt would stay in place for very long before the force from the magnet dragged it around till it touched the flywheel which usually wrecks the magneto & the flywheel .

And it does hurt to try.
The magneto has the timing control chip embedded within it
Some of these have some advance ( retard actually ) built in some don't.
The chip measures the rising voltage being generated in the coil and when it gets to a threshold it closes the primary side and a power pulse is generated.
Because of things like patient laws , different stroke lengths, different positions of the magnets with respect to the position of the piston they are all slightly different.
Because all of this works by the strength of the magnetic fields the coils have slots in them and the slot accounts for about 10deg of crankcase rotation which you use if you are performance tuning one of these engines , closer = early spark , further away = latter spark .

While it is possible that 2 units from 2 different makers might actually be the same it is also possible that you will win the lottery .
A lot of different coils for the same brand of engine are just different lengths of spark plug wire so will interchange quite happily.
I exploit this to reduce my inventory of B & S magneto coils.

If you can not afford to buy a genuine B & S coil or even a known good cheaper aftermarket coil from Prime Line, Stens , Rotary or Oregon the I doubt you can afford a new piston, & con rod should the engine overheat & sieze or brake a con rod .OR even the extra 50% fuel because the spark is a little late so the engine is underpowered and you have to work a lot longer with the governor opening up the throttle fully all the time .

I keep a box full of old coils taken off engines that are broken down for parts and a lot of the independent workshops do the same.
I use these to repair old engines sold without warranty or for checking & occasionally will sell them for 1/3 the new price as they are used & all I know is they worked when I took them off so there is no warranty .
We call these "poverty packs " along with all of the other used , not quite up to scratch part & they are usually put on pensioners mowers because a lot of them either can not afford new parts or don't want to put brand new parts on lest they die before they get used up .

My advice is to seek out an independent repair workshop , the type that work out of old petrol stations or behind a hardwear shop etc etc .
There are a lot more of us than most would think because the bulk of the big mower shops actually only do warranty work & servicing on the mowers they sell and are not interested in fixing mowers if they can convince you to buy a new one .

I've been using that old mower with the 4hp Briggs for 15 years.

Totally agree with Bert on this one. I‘ve also have a boxes of used coils and used carbs I’ve removed from junkers and install on my “poverty “ cases. If you have found that will mount with one screw, have the same timing, have the same spark length, have the same power and not change position with the engine running, you better go buy a powerball ticket. You’re luckier than 99.9999% of all service tech in this country.

Someone on another forum tried it and said it works.
Might entail a timing wheel, time will tell.

Worked
or worked properly
What they don't come back and admit is when they were mowing for 2 hours on a 80 deg day the engine siezed because the timing was out
I have seen so may You tube videos showing some thing being done that I know will destroy the engine over time it is not funny.
I used to add comments to let the technically ignorant understand it was not the miracle $ 2 fix the poster presented it as.
However all I got was flamed & abused so I don't bother any more.
However on a mower forum it is different because most of the people here want a proper fix to ensure their mower will work properly for may years.

The one that really killed me was a clown who showed how to slow down a racing engine by stuffing more foam in the filter to restrict the air flow .
And that idiot had near 100 deciples singing his praises because the mower shop was going to charge them several hundred dollars to split the engine & replace the faulty governor but their "GURU" showed them how to do it for under $ 1 .

FWIW.
Atom Industries invented the Hall effect trigger for small engines in 1959 they marketed it in 1962 with 9 different timed chips so the owner could get the right one for their engine
These were all colour coded and there was a different one for B & S engines , Tecumseh Engines & Honda engines plus another for racing B & S engines used in go carts at the time .
Originally they were marketed as "points eliminators "
Husqvarna , Stihl , OMG & Victa all bought the technology & fitted them as standard .
All other engine makers persisted with points for 30 more years till the patient expired because they would not pay Atom the 10¢ royalties for using the IP or $ 1.50 for the units in bulk
Around 2000 engine makers started to embed the chip into the coil itself so a $ 5 coil & $ 10 trigger module became a $ 30 magneto module and they saved about 1 minute of assembly time + 1 hole & 1 screw , which over 10,000,000 engines is a tidy sum .

So before any one say with confidence that they coils are interchangable they engine timing would need to be verified with a strobe & tacho
Unless that was done then you are crossing an interstate in the middle of the night wearing a blindfold

Ignition timing will not make an engine seize, lake of lubrication will.

rustycat said:

Ignition timing will not make an engine seize, lake of lubrication will.

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it can cause the engine to run leaner and overheat, more likely if not done properly.

now we could get identification of the 5HP Briggs to get this guy the proper coil, so he doesn't have to buy a coil and timing wheel. But apparently that's locked away in Ft. Knox...

As Scrub said, if the engine timing is off causing a lean operating condition, it will definitely overheat and seize up. Ask anyone who has had an engine on their racing tractor or go-cart explode when they had the timing to far off under high RPMs. They start the engine with either, keep feathering the throttle until the race starts, make one or two laps, then Ka-Boom, oil flying all over the place.

The timing will be exactly the same as long as you mount the coil on the original mounting stand's. The only was you can change the timing is if you mount the coil in a different position which would be a lot of reengineering.

Rusty, with all due respects, that is total rubbish and I really think you do not comprehend how these magnetos work or how the ignition is timed .
For what you are saaying to be true then every coil would have to be mounted in exactly tha same position & every magnet would have to be in the same position relative to the piston and all fo the magnets would have to be the same strength and all of the coils would have to have the same number of turns of the same size wire on the primaries and all of the trigger circuits would have to be identical.
And I know for a fact they are not
While the difference between some B & S coils is nothing more than the length of the HT lead, or the type of plug cap, a lot of B & S coils will not work on a different B & S engine.
I know this for a fact as I have tried interchanging them when I was working out which ones I needed to keep as stock
And I did use a timing light on the ones that would actually run on an engine they were not listed for .
So for push mowers I keep 3 B & S coils which I know can cover the entire range of engines even if the HT lead is a bit long on some .

The caveat here is I have never bothered to try Preditor coils on anything because I don't keep them and I still have the 5 Honda coils that came with the business 9 years ago because you rarely ever need to replace them ( never ) .

While I do know what it is like to fall on hard times , I was born into a dirt poor family & been bankrupt twice but if you really can not afford a proper B & S coil , or the cheaper aftermarket ones sold buy the aftermarket parts suppliers then you really must be doing it tough in which case it would be worthwhile picking up a sythe from a oppertunity shop to sane the cost of petrol .

Once again I agree with Bert. Couple of things to add. Curvature of the coil legs is very important, as this will determine strength of the flux lines, duration of buildup and timing. Second, not all coils use the same type of triggering systems, which also control timing. To anyone who really believes it will work, go ahead and try it, but their is NO tech or dealer who receives money for their services that will waste their time on this myth.

This why we need the engine info in the first place to see it is one of the common Magnetrons or a points coil. Plus as said coil themselves have changed over the years along flywheel diameters.

If it is just where a mouse had chewed through HT lead then I replace the lead it the coil's core is not too rusty. I even had change leads out due being too short. But even this depends the coil's construction.

Scrub it is like some my customers that flat refuses to give me the serial numbers. They act like the equipment is stolen when we only need the info make they are getting the right parts.

Everything that comes into my shop gets both model and serial numbers recorded as I have a few customers that own multiple units and some have tried cheating me on repairs.

Being lazy i just take a picture of the model/serial plate of each piece piece of equipment and notate the customer name and phone number in the picture description.

Hammermechanicman said:

Being lazy i just take a picture of the model/serial plate of each piece piece of equipment and notate the customer name and phone number in the picture description.

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That can work too and does eliminate entry errors. Here my Auto Manager software can accept images but the customer records requires setting up equipment files for long term record keeping. Here I have system to keep work orders for ten years. If customer sells the unit to another customer I just transfer the equipment and all the records following so I have a long term repair history which help as I know what was done in the past.

An example of a record. Each job can be open separately when needed.

You are way more organized than i am. When i first started i had a form and database setup and tracked all parts on each machine and entered all the work ticket info. After a year i went to ticket books with a carbon. I price parts and labor separate. I don't use the computer any more. I don't track any more than my accountant needs me to. My inventory stock is small enough i don't need to track it on a spreadsheet.

It is the only way I can do it. Just way too involved otherwise. I would up to my eyeballs in paper otherwise. I tried the index card system for inventory but it just didn't for my operation.

There is no way I could keep track of over 16,000 parts even through I only have 2,075 different sku numbers in stock. Using a bin system to help finding them. And just the ones I have in stock of the 850,000 sku numbers with descriptions and pricing that I have loaded on my system.




Of course cost is for items only and don't including shc.

16000 parts. Dang! I have around 400 parts in stock. Mainly oil, air and fuel filters and couple dozen different spark plugs, deck wheels and a bunch of carb stuff. So many different blades now i quit stocking them except a few i know current customers will need. Same for belts.