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power loss over time with pto engage

#1

C

choocoo johnson

Hello Cub Cadet champs. I have, I think, the last year 2135 hydro made - 2007 or 2008. My SN's have washed off and Inever bothered to write em down. It still is a great legacy mower, but I cannot understand why I am losing power while mowing with pto. I ran it yesterday with the mower standing alone by itself for two hours, no pto, and it ran fine. Other than the carb needing a rebuild and choke connection rebuilt (the plastic pivot on top of the valve busted and I am jeldwen a washer to top of pivot with hole), this is still my favorite mower (I've been unhappy with two Kubotas since and I still go back to my old faithful). Do I need to replace the electric PTO? My son replaced my starter a couple years ago. Suggestions welcome from Cub experts. Thanks.


#2

C

choocoo johnson

choocoo johnson said:
Hello Cub Cadet champs. I have, I think, the last year 2135 hydro made - 2007 or 2008. My SN's have washed off and Inever bothered to write em down. It still is a great legacy mower, but I cannot understand why I am losing power while mowing with pto. I ran it yesterday with the mower standing alone by itself for two hours, no pto, and it ran fine. Other than the carb needing a rebuild and choke connection rebuilt (the plastic pivot on top of the valve busted and I am jeldwen a washer to top of pivot with hole), this is still my favorite mower (I've been unhappy with two Kubotas since and I still go back to my old faithful). Do I need to replace the electric PTO? My son replaced my starter a couple years ago. Suggestions welcome from Cub experts. Thanks.
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#3

C

choocoo johnson

Correction...it is I think a 1997 or 1998 model...


#4

B

bertsmobile1

Most likely cause is running on one cylinder.
They will drive around all day at full speed ( we use them for moving the livestock around the farm ) running on one cylinder but the instant you put blade load on them they kark it .
Slowly pull the plug wires off one at a time while it is running.
If the engine picks up speed just as the lead is coming off the plug then the plug is bad or oil fouled ( old mechanics trick )
If the engine stops when the plug lead is removed then the OTHER side is not working

One side not working can be a failed coil , failed hydraulic lifter, bent pushrod which are the most common faults.
A burned valve , sticking vale etc usually causes misfires & often backfires .


#5

C

choocoo johnson

bertsmobile1 said:
Most likely cause is running on one cylinder.
They will drive around all day at full speed ( we use them for moving the livestock around the farm ) running on one cylinder but the instant you put blade load on them they kark it .
Slowly pull the plug wires off one at a time while it is running.
If the engine picks up speed just as the lead is coming off the plug then the plug is bad or oil fouled ( old mechanics trick )
If the engine stops when the plug lead is removed then the OTHER side is not working

One side not working can be a failed coil , failed hydraulic lifter, bent pushrod which are the most common faults.
A burned valve , sticking vale etc usually causes misfires & often backfires .
Click to expand...
bertsmobile1,
Thank you for the reply. This model is a 13 hp and has one cylinder. It did get me thinking about the coil and the valves.


#6

smalltimerpm

smalltimerpm

13 hp?? 2007 or 08?? Single cylinder? What brand engine was this?


#7

B

bertsmobile1

My bad
So used to Murray & Husqvarna model numbers instantly assumed it was 21Hp & 38" deck
2135 should have a 15 Hp Kohler Command engine
Standing around idleing or driving around on relatively flat ground will only require the high idle being acive thus the mower is principally running on the idle circuit
When you turn on the blades you put a lot higher load on the engine, both mechanical & electrical which causes the throttle to open wider & makes the mower run on the main jet.
If the main jet is partially blocked , if the float level is low , if there is crud in the tank blocking the outlet or if the pump diaphragm has failed then you will loose power
These engines have a mechanical fuel pump & the diaphragm goes hard, & cracks .


#8

StarTech

StarTech

If the power loss is electrical otherwords you having to recharge the battery there is couple possibles.

  • One that charging system is not charging as it should. Probably the voltage regulator. Note the Kohler stator should a 15 amp as even the older version was upgraded.
  • or two you have a partially shorted PTO clutch which is drawing more electrical amps that the stator can keep up with. And yes I have seen multiple electric PTO to do this over the years. Electric PTO should not be drawing more the 5-7 amps max.
The PTO clutch electric coil should a resistance of no lower than 1.7 ohms.


#9

C

choocoo johnson

Thanks to all. I appreciate the help.


#10

smalltimerpm

smalltimerpm

StarTech said:
If the power loss is electrical otherwords you having to recharge the battery there is couple possibles.

  • One that charging system is not charging as it should. Probably the voltage regulator. Note the Kohler stator should a 15 amp as even the older version was upgraded.
  • or two you have a partially shorted PTO clutch which is drawing more electrical amps that the stator can keep up with. And yes I have seen multiple electric PTO to do this over the years. Electric PTO should not be drawing more the 5-7 amps max.
The PTO clutch electric coil should a resistance of no lower than 1.7 ohms.
Click to expand...
There are resistors installed for this reason in some cases but not quite sure about this particular model.


#11

StarTech

StarTech

smalltimerpm said:
There are resistors installed for this reason in some cases but not quite sure about this particular model.
Click to expand...
Hmmm in the last 14 yrs I have never seen just resistors in the circuits of lawnmower's charging systems.


#12

C

choocoo johnson

Interesting. I checked the PTO for ohms yesterday and found the resistance measured to be 3.7 ohms. After reading posts I decided to clean up all electrical terminals with WD 40 electrical contact cleaner after seeing nearly all connections with mild to moderate contamination. I noticed one of the relay holders had some of its case partly melted from getting too hot. I replaced the relay. 25 yr old mower with 1040 hours still starts easy and runs smooth.


#13

C

choocoo johnson

And anyone with a pic of the 1998 model 2135 wiring schematics? I’d like to get my hands on one if there are any still out there for future reference. Still an amazingly sound mower mechanically after 25 yrs.


#14

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

choocoo johnson said:
And anyone with a pic of the 1998 model 2135 wiring schematics? I’d like to get my hands on one if there are any still out there for future reference. Still an amazingly sound mower mechanically after 25 yrs.
Click to expand...
25 years? You guys and all your newfangled stuff.
Tiger.jpg


#15

StarTech

StarTech

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#16

smalltimerpm

smalltimerpm

StarTech said:
Hmmm in the last 14 yrs I have never seen just resistors in the circuits of lawnmower's charging systems.
Click to expand...
Ok correction...it's a diode.


#17

smalltimerpm

smalltimerpm

Hammermechanicman said:
25 years? You guys and all your newfangled stuff.
View attachment 63625
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Thats a oldie and a goodie!! I like that hammer


#18

C

choocoo johnson

Thanks for the schematics - this will be very handy. As for the other pic of the oldie...I hope I am not older than that machine! My wife's grandfather had an old Cub from I think the mid 60's - well maintained - I mowed with it in the 80's, an old 3 speed, shaft drive unit. Her grand was an aircraft mechanic on the old radial aircraft engines, and he diligently maintained it until my wife's uncle inherited it and tore it up. I truly miss the simplicity these older engines had, even with some parts having shorter lives.


#19

smalltimerpm

smalltimerpm

choocoo johnson said:
Thanks for the schematics - this will be very handy. As for the other pic of the oldie...I hope I am not older than that machine! My wife's grandfather had an old Cub from I think the mid 60's - well maintained - I mowed with it in the 80's, an old 3 speed, shaft drive unit. Her grand was an aircraft mechanic on the old radial aircraft engines, and he diligently maintained it until my wife's uncle inherited it and tore it up. I truly miss the simplicity these older engines had, even with some parts having shorter lives.
Click to expand...
I wanted to post a pic of a 60s cub that sits on display in the office for everyone to see but every time I try to load it says it's too large.


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