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Poulan Wildthing Chainsaw
#1
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
I just replaced the clutch drum and clutch large washer. Installed new bar and chain. I have done this at least 3 other times. Cleaed saw replaced fuel filter and all fuel lines and primer.. Th saw starts and runs but bogs down like a binding. I noticed after bar chain it won,t roll chain backwards without climbing off the drum teeth. All thoughts on this issue desperately needed. My 20 echo is a little heavy for limbing.
#2
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
Check for chain pitch mismatch. Sounds like the pitch of the sprocket doesn't match the pitch of the chain. IE, sprocket is 3/8 low profile but the chain is .325.
#3
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
The bar/chain assy is Trilink PN BM 1501862-1041TL2 18 inch 62 DL 3/8 LP-.050 I think that is correct. I thru old clutch drum away so I caHELPn,t match to the new one. It has 6 teeth and stamped on the teeth is CS 16??? . I really don,t know what item is incorrect if any and can,t figure out the binding or when rolled back it walks of the edge of the sprocket teeth. HELP Jim
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Illengine has nailed it for sure.
Where did you get the drum from and how did they work out which one to fit ?
Just about every small saw could be fitted with either 325 or 3/8 LP chain from new .
The only other thing that could cause this is the drum bearing is shot
A lot of cheap Chinese junk ones bought on Amazon( usually as part of a set ) have 1 or 2 less rollers than an OEM unit .
A lot of cheap Chinese Junk chain is just that and I have found some chain loops with different pitch links in the chain and an incorrect joining link is very common particularly on fake Oregon chain, there would 3 times as many fake Oregon chains out there as genuine ones .
Then there are the junk soft single use chains as fitted to most cheap Chinese saws sold on line which will wear out just running it around the bar with your fingers.
Where did you get the drum from and how did they work out which one to fit ?
Just about every small saw could be fitted with either 325 or 3/8 LP chain from new .
The only other thing that could cause this is the drum bearing is shot
A lot of cheap Chinese junk ones bought on Amazon( usually as part of a set ) have 1 or 2 less rollers than an OEM unit .
A lot of cheap Chinese Junk chain is just that and I have found some chain loops with different pitch links in the chain and an incorrect joining link is very common particularly on fake Oregon chain, there would 3 times as many fake Oregon chains out there as genuine ones .
Then there are the junk soft single use chains as fitted to most cheap Chinese saws sold on line which will wear out just running it around the bar with your fingers.
#5
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
Bert its very hard to know what in your reply is true/fake/junk? So if I shouldn,t buy on amazon and the oregon parts are fake at ace/lowes/home depot where do you suggest I buy? The drum came in a Husqavarna package as well as the large washer. The needle brg, is installed and looks ok. I wish I didn,t throw out the drum that I just replaced. How can I find out the number of teeth on the drum when saw was originally made? My son seems to think that the shaft could be bent?? Please keep respondinf if you have a good idea. Thanks Jim
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
To get either genuine or good quality reproduction parts, you buy them either from a mower / chainsaw shop or directly from an on line parts shop that is real, where if they sell you a dud product you can walk in & punch some one on the nose.
Lots of them around , Jacks Small engines, partsTree, e-replacement parts, Proparts direct, Messecks, K & T , Small Engine Warehouse, Small engine Suppliers, there are hundreds of them.
Amazon stores do not exist, they are just a web site & pallets at a distribution center, the prefect place to sell fake, substandard & stolen goods because you never ever know the actual identity of the actual vendor.
And in many cases the same vendor will sell the same goods at different prices using different identities.
I was at a warehouse where we did just that with our spare pallet spaces, goods arrived on a truck, orderers came in via email got picked and packed with whatever invoice we were sent .
The packers picked this up when some one was doing comparison shopping & they dispatched 6 of the same blenders to the same person but using 6 different company names on the invoices .
The blenders are a good example as they came from China in plain white boxes.
With the goods were a ream or clear plastic stickers which we ran through the colour laser printer as they were sold to brand the blenders .
And we sent out thousands of them .
If the shaft is bent the chain will run tight once every revolution so if it was a 6 tooth sprocket then the chain will go tight on every 6th drive link .
Fake Oregon chain & bars will be found on cheap imported chain saws "with Oregon chain & bar " often sold at big box stores. I doubt that a big box would risk selling fake bras & chain as a stand alone part but ebay & Amazon will .
Easy to spot because the graphics on the side of the bar are not the same as shown in the Oregon catalogue and usually the entire saw is cheaper than the list price of the bar & chain alone on Oregons web page.
I had one chain come in that had genuine branded Oregon side plates, but the cutters & drive links were fakes .
The chain had been hand made as the rivets had been spun & not riveted so some one had sat in a workshop making "genuine Oregon" chain from Oregon side plates & the rest of the bits from some one else.
The owner bought a 6 pack of these off ebay for less than I could buy the bulk chain wholesale. he brought the chains in for me to sharpen because the chainsaw shop refused to sharpen them for him . He was not happy when I did the same as the chain was wrecked despite only being used once . The cutters were so soft I would have needed to grind near 1/2 of them away to restore the proper tooth shape and the holes in all of the drive links had gone oval.
He stormed out calling me every foul name he could bring to mind at the time .
A genuine Husqvarna chain is branded as is a genuine sprocket
It will have a part number and that can be checked on their catalogue
an after market sprocket will have it's size stamped into it and a brand name if it is a better quality one along with a catalogue part number
When I see them, I check the catalogue agains the actual sprocket, if they are different it is a fake.
As Illengine mentioned the same saw can be supplied with a variety of different chains & bars so not uncommon to find a single model fitted OEM with both 3/8LP & .325 depending upon which bar it is fitted with.
Oregon have a web site where you can search you saw and find out what chains & bars it can be fitted with ,
All the other aftermarket companies will have the same catalogues although not all are on line.
Husqvarna will also have a listing but will of course only list the Husqvarna part number which you can then cross refference.
Back to your saw
Post the brand name of the parts you fitted and any numbers on them
All good bars will have a code on them that indicates what they are and what chains they can run.
Also check that the end of the bar is true to the saw
Flip the bar and see if it does the same things
Lots of them around , Jacks Small engines, partsTree, e-replacement parts, Proparts direct, Messecks, K & T , Small Engine Warehouse, Small engine Suppliers, there are hundreds of them.
Amazon stores do not exist, they are just a web site & pallets at a distribution center, the prefect place to sell fake, substandard & stolen goods because you never ever know the actual identity of the actual vendor.
And in many cases the same vendor will sell the same goods at different prices using different identities.
I was at a warehouse where we did just that with our spare pallet spaces, goods arrived on a truck, orderers came in via email got picked and packed with whatever invoice we were sent .
The packers picked this up when some one was doing comparison shopping & they dispatched 6 of the same blenders to the same person but using 6 different company names on the invoices .
The blenders are a good example as they came from China in plain white boxes.
With the goods were a ream or clear plastic stickers which we ran through the colour laser printer as they were sold to brand the blenders .
And we sent out thousands of them .
If the shaft is bent the chain will run tight once every revolution so if it was a 6 tooth sprocket then the chain will go tight on every 6th drive link .
Fake Oregon chain & bars will be found on cheap imported chain saws "with Oregon chain & bar " often sold at big box stores. I doubt that a big box would risk selling fake bras & chain as a stand alone part but ebay & Amazon will .
Easy to spot because the graphics on the side of the bar are not the same as shown in the Oregon catalogue and usually the entire saw is cheaper than the list price of the bar & chain alone on Oregons web page.
I had one chain come in that had genuine branded Oregon side plates, but the cutters & drive links were fakes .
The chain had been hand made as the rivets had been spun & not riveted so some one had sat in a workshop making "genuine Oregon" chain from Oregon side plates & the rest of the bits from some one else.
The owner bought a 6 pack of these off ebay for less than I could buy the bulk chain wholesale. he brought the chains in for me to sharpen because the chainsaw shop refused to sharpen them for him . He was not happy when I did the same as the chain was wrecked despite only being used once . The cutters were so soft I would have needed to grind near 1/2 of them away to restore the proper tooth shape and the holes in all of the drive links had gone oval.
He stormed out calling me every foul name he could bring to mind at the time .
A genuine Husqvarna chain is branded as is a genuine sprocket
It will have a part number and that can be checked on their catalogue
an after market sprocket will have it's size stamped into it and a brand name if it is a better quality one along with a catalogue part number
When I see them, I check the catalogue agains the actual sprocket, if they are different it is a fake.
As Illengine mentioned the same saw can be supplied with a variety of different chains & bars so not uncommon to find a single model fitted OEM with both 3/8LP & .325 depending upon which bar it is fitted with.
Oregon have a web site where you can search you saw and find out what chains & bars it can be fitted with ,
All the other aftermarket companies will have the same catalogues although not all are on line.
Husqvarna will also have a listing but will of course only list the Husqvarna part number which you can then cross refference.
Back to your saw
Post the brand name of the parts you fitted and any numbers on them
All good bars will have a code on them that indicates what they are and what chains they can run.
Also check that the end of the bar is true to the saw
Flip the bar and see if it does the same things
#7
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
I posted bar/chain and sprocket numbers above. Should the sprocket at the end of the bar (7) have same number of teeth as the drive sprocket (6). Should there be any end float on the drive sprocket when assembled and torqued correctly? Why will only walk off the sprocket when rolled backwards and only bind when going forward? While viewing sprockets the other day I noticed several had 6 or 7 teeth under the same part number. My saw is a 18 inch Poulan Wildthing?? There are several different typrs but I can,t figure out the type. I boughtit new in late 90,s
#8
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
the bar and chain description looks correct for your saw. the CS16 appears to be an OEM Husqvarna/Poulan sprocket so that should be correct. Remove the bar and chain and try to turn the sprocket by hand to see if it is binding or dragging. sometimes the bearing to crankshaft surface had get sticky and make the sprocket hard to turn separate from the crankshaft.I posted bar/chain and sprocket numbers above. Should the sprocket at the end of the bar (7) have same number of teeth as the drive sprocket (6). Should there be any end float on the drive sprocket when assembled and torqued correctly? Why will only walk off the sprocket when rolled backwards and only bind when going forward? While viewing sprockets the other day I noticed several had 6 or 7 teeth under the same part number. My saw is a 18 inch Poulan Wildthing?? There are several different typrs but I can,t figure out the type. I boughtit new in late 90,s
#9
StarTech
StarTech
Just carry the saw to a local chainsaw repair shop and they should be able figure out the problem if they are any good at all.
#10
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
It rotates fine, no binding with bar/chain removed. What about what i asked about in previous post, and why would I take a 159$ saw to a shop at a big shop hour rate? Like I said at the start I have replaced these parts several times in the last 20 years, but never had a issue.the bar and chain description looks correct for your saw. the CS16 appears to be an OEM Husqvarna/Poulan sprocket so that should be correct. Remove the bar and chain and try to turn the sprocket by hand to see if it is binding or dragging. sometimes the bearing to crankshaft surface had get sticky and make the sprocket hard to turn separate from the crankshaft.
#11
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
The tooth count on the sprocket and the bar don't have to match. Chain to sprocket binding and jumping normally is due to trying to run a different pitch on the sprocket than the chain, or worn sprocket with a new chain. If you just put the chain on the sprocket without the bar and pull the chain back and forth with your hand does it jump and bind or runs smooth. Possibly do the same with the chain on the bar and see if it runs smooth in the bar groove and around the nose.
#12
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
Chain runs smoothly around the removed bar and freely around the drive sprocket with no bar. Its when assembled the bind/other issues happen. I still would like to know how much end float if any does the drive sprocket have.Should the thrust washer zero out the float? I,ve looked at every link on the new chain and it looks fine with no minding or bent bars.. Is it possible that the new sprocket was machined wrong?
#13
ILENGINE
ILENGINE
Drive sprocket can have a fair amount of float. Look at how much a rim drive sprocket can move the ring back and forth on the splines. I am wondering if the new bar is too tall for the application causing the chain to slam into the back of the bar instead of feeding smoothly into the slot. Meaning the bar groove is too far above the sprocket tooth causing too much angle on entrance.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
The number of teeth in the nose sprocket is determined by the radius of the nose.
A thin trimming bar will have a thin nose & small sprocket while a wide felling saw will have a much wider one,
If the sprocket is the right one & the bar is the right one and the sprocket bearing is good ( should be replaced with the sprocket ) then the last thing is the alignment of the bar
If the bar is not dead true to the sprocket you can get this sort of situations but that normally only happens when ou change a bar in the field & fail to clean the bar area or the tensioning pin is not located properly in the bar.
There is only so much we can do when we have noting to go on but what some one has typed into a forum.
Many times the key is what damage was done which required the repair.
And I would ask why are you changing the bar ?
Bars should be a forever item unless the owners is abusing the saw or the lubrication system has failed .
My personal saw is a Stihl Farm Boss bought in 1982 when I lived in the mountains .
It cut 3 ton of fire wood or me every year for 30 years plus was regularly loaned to the fire man next door during bushfire or for cleaning up storm damage & has been loaned to at least 50 customers since I bought the repair business and it is still on the original bar .
I inherited an 07 Lightening from the 60's with the store stock and that is also a loaned and it still has the original Stihl bar .
So your problem could still be what ever it was that caused you to replace the bar in the first place.
B
bertsmobile1
NoI posted bar/chain and sprocket numbers above. Should the sprocket at the end of the bar (7) have same number of teeth as the drive sprocket (6). Should there be any end float on the drive sprocket when assembled and torqued correctly? Why will only walk off the sprocket when rolled backwards and only bind when going forward? While viewing sprockets the other day I noticed several had 6 or 7 teeth under the same part number. My saw is a 18 inch Poulan Wildthing?? There are several different typrs but I can,t figure out the type. I boughtit new in late 90,s
The number of teeth in the nose sprocket is determined by the radius of the nose.
A thin trimming bar will have a thin nose & small sprocket while a wide felling saw will have a much wider one,
If the sprocket is the right one & the bar is the right one and the sprocket bearing is good ( should be replaced with the sprocket ) then the last thing is the alignment of the bar
If the bar is not dead true to the sprocket you can get this sort of situations but that normally only happens when ou change a bar in the field & fail to clean the bar area or the tensioning pin is not located properly in the bar.
There is only so much we can do when we have noting to go on but what some one has typed into a forum.
Many times the key is what damage was done which required the repair.
And I would ask why are you changing the bar ?
Bars should be a forever item unless the owners is abusing the saw or the lubrication system has failed .
My personal saw is a Stihl Farm Boss bought in 1982 when I lived in the mountains .
It cut 3 ton of fire wood or me every year for 30 years plus was regularly loaned to the fire man next door during bushfire or for cleaning up storm damage & has been loaned to at least 50 customers since I bought the repair business and it is still on the original bar .
I inherited an 07 Lightening from the 60's with the store stock and that is also a loaned and it still has the original Stihl bar .
So your problem could still be what ever it was that caused you to replace the bar in the first place.
#15
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
The bar was worn at the nose area probably from my abuse/use by me. The chain I sharpened many times and there was little left to sharpen. Parts wear o ut even oem and no abuse. Usually 2 tanks of fuel per oil refill. The only thing different this time is that I bought a Husq sprocket with brg installed and a Trilink Bar/Chain assy. I asked about the sprocket and end float that itself takes the chain out of bar alignment?I don,t know maybe its time to dig a hole and just bury it..
#16
F
fayjim2
F
fayjim2
I think I found the culprit. I removed barand chain again. The studs are pulling thru the case causing the bR TO NOT LINE UP CORRECTLY. The engine runs so good should I try to find a replacement case? Where do you suggest I buy one?
#17
StarTech
StarTech
Also we need the real model number of the saw. In my shop don't charge chain,bar, and sprocket mismatch; unless, those parts are needed. Customers a lot of the time has the old parts to work from.
I just replaced the sprocket, chain, and bar on a customer's Echo CS-4400 saw and only charged for those items and he getting back his new chain and bar as has another saw they will fit. He had install a 3/8 BNC on a .325 saw setup. Destroyed the clutch drum spur.
I just replaced the sprocket, chain, and bar on a customer's Echo CS-4400 saw and only charged for those items and he getting back his new chain and bar as has another saw they will fit. He had install a 3/8 BNC on a .325 saw setup. Destroyed the clutch drum spur.
#18
StarTech
StarTech
May not be available or the last one I needed a case for last week wasn't available.I think I found the culprit. I removed barand chain again. The studs are pulling thru the case causing the bR TO NOT LINE UP CORRECTLY. The engine runs so good should I try to find a replacement case? Where do you suggest I buy one?