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older exmark zeroturn electrical issue
#1
C
crazyelite22
C
crazyelite22
Hello please excuse my grammer I am typing on a phone. I have an early 2000 exmark zeroturn mower which I will include a picture if I can, no model numbers that I can find. Anyways we have an issue where it will start and run fine but then it dies almost like someone turned the key off. Now the battery was new in June of 2013, but I guess it could be bad. The thing is well charge it overnight and when I start it, it runs only a short amount of time before dying. My guess is it is a wiring issue or a switch issue but I have no idea how to diagnose this. If one of you wiring wizards can point me to some common problems maybe we can get this thing figured out...
Attachments
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Have a few questions before we can help you with your problem. At this point we must figure out why it is quiting, so you are going to have to tell us more. 1. Does it quit while you are moving or just sitting there? 2. When it quits have you checked for spark? 3. Can you restart it right away or do you have to wait for awhile? 4. What have you tried doing to keep it running? 5. What is your electrical experience? Remember, we cannot see, hear or feel you problem, so you must give us a clear picture of your unit to help you.
#3
C
crazyelite22
2. No because it will not even crank after it dies.
3. Wait a while. Not sure if we have to charge it again or just wait for a switch to reset
4. Not really. I'd like to run it and keep the choke on to see if it stays running but since it died 20 minutes ago I've been charging it but the when I turn the key I get nothing, so I'm currently waiting for either the battery to charge or for the possibly broken switch to reset itself. I don't know
5. I have wired trailers, snowmobiles, a little car accessory wiring, and know how to solder, if u tell me what connection to test I can figure out a multi meter and give u my readings.
C
crazyelite22
1. Yesturday after a charge it ran and drove for a while. First time starting in 2 months, today it dies just sitting here. Could be coincidence but dies when choke turns off. I want to emphasize that it doesn't cough out or struggle at all. It just shuts off like someone turned the key, then when we try to start it nothing, no clicks or anything for a while. Then randomly it will start again, usually after a charge.Have a few questions before we can help you with your problem. At this point we must figure out why it is quiting, so you are going to have to tell us more. 1. Does it quit while you are moving or just sitting there? 2. When it quits have you checked for spark? 3. Can you restart it right away or do you have to wait for awhile? 4. What have you tried doing to keep it running? 5. What is your electrical experience? Remember, we cannot see, hear or feel you problem, so you must give us a clear picture of your unit to help you.
2. No because it will not even crank after it dies.
3. Wait a while. Not sure if we have to charge it again or just wait for a switch to reset
4. Not really. I'd like to run it and keep the choke on to see if it stays running but since it died 20 minutes ago I've been charging it but the when I turn the key I get nothing, so I'm currently waiting for either the battery to charge or for the possibly broken switch to reset itself. I don't know
5. I have wired trailers, snowmobiles, a little car accessory wiring, and know how to solder, if u tell me what connection to test I can figure out a multi meter and give u my readings.
#4
Fish
Fish
First thing to do is to remove and wire brush your battery connections, and where it grounds to the frame. So you don't waste a lot of time if it is just that.
Also, look at the plug on your keyswitch, and look for a lot of corrosion. do this first, and if you still have a problem, post your mower's model numbers off of the tag on
the frame, and all of the numbers off of the tag on your engine, so we can give better advice.
Also, look at the plug on your keyswitch, and look for a lot of corrosion. do this first, and if you still have a problem, post your mower's model numbers off of the tag on
the frame, and all of the numbers off of the tag on your engine, so we can give better advice.
#5
C
crazyelite22
C
crazyelite22
Ok. Update. I got it started since ny last post. Ran it on choke for 3 minutes then I heard the engine change running condition so I turned choke off. Stayed running. When It died eventually I narrowed it down the the two fuses below your left leg as u sit on the mower. When I jiggle them it will start again. So I may have bad gas or a gunned up carb jet but I think these fuses are my electrical problem. What do those fuses operate? Are they any way connected to the choke. Thank you
#6
C
crazyelite22
will post numbers tomorrow, please read my last post maybe it will shed new light. Battery connections aren't corroded and I recently cleaned them. I will also check key switch.
C
crazyelite22
First thing to do is to remove and wire brush your battery connections, and where it grounds to the frame. So you don't waste a lot of time if it is just that.
Also, look at the plug on your keyswitch, and look for a lot of corrosion. do this first, and if you still have a problem, post your mower's model numbers off of the tag on
the frame, and all of the numbers off of the tag on your engine, so we can give better advice.
will post numbers tomorrow, please read my last post maybe it will shed new light. Battery connections aren't corroded and I recently cleaned them. I will also check key switch.
#7
Fish
Fish
Yeah, jiggling wires is also a way of locating trouble, one of them is likely the main from the battery going to your keyswitch, and is probably what is going on. So you should focus there. If you have an afterfire solenoid or smartspark, a power loss to either of those would kill your engine. Post the model numbers so we can put up a diagram to follow the circuits.
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
This sounds to me that you have two problems, electrical and fuel. Let's solve the electrical first. Next time it quits and will not crank to restart, take a voltage reading at the battery. You should have roughly 12.6V. If you have voltage, check the fuses. Also, check the connection between the battery ground and the chassis. I will need you to post back results so I can determine which direction to send you. This problem might be solved in 20 minutes or 10 hours, as electrical troubleshooting takes time and patience. Let me know if you want my help, as I am very slow, needy and not always available, and there are others here who areable to do a better job than me.
#9
Fish
Fish
Yeah.... The site won't cut us a check, if there is another "old tech" claiming to have helped the original poster..... Us old retired guys need this check, as our disability
and food stamp money won't cover the vast amount of beer we require to help folks here on the forums.........
So you need to pick your head chef early on I guess........
Just kidding Rivets a bit!!!!!
Anyway, sounds like you have almost found your problem anyway, just give us those model numbers!!!!
and food stamp money won't cover the vast amount of beer we require to help folks here on the forums.........
So you need to pick your head chef early on I guess........
Just kidding Rivets a bit!!!!!
Anyway, sounds like you have almost found your problem anyway, just give us those model numbers!!!!
#10
C
crazyelite22
ok I'm not really sure what you are talking about but like I said I will post the numbers tomorrow. Thanks
C
crazyelite22
Yeah.... The site won't cut us a check, if there is another "old tech" claiming to have helped the original poster..... Us old retired guys need this check, as our disability
and food stamp money won't cover the vast amount of beer we require to help folks here on the forums.........
So you need to pick your head chef early on I guess........
Just kidding Rivets a bit!!!!!
Anyway, sounds like you have almost found your problem anyway, just give us those model numbers!!!!
ok I'm not really sure what you are talking about but like I said I will post the numbers tomorrow. Thanks
#11
C
crazyelite22
Sounds like my plan as soon as I get into work tomorrow.
C
crazyelite22
This sounds to me that you have two problems, electrical and fuel. Let's solve the electrical first. Next time it quits and will not crank to restart, take a voltage reading at the battery. You should have roughly 12.6V. If you have voltage, check the fuses. Also, check the connection between the battery ground and the chassis. I will need you to post back results so I can determine which direction to send you. This problem might be solved in 20 minutes or 10 hours, as electrical troubleshooting takes time and patience. Let me know if you want my help, as I am very slow, needy and not always available, and there are others here who areable to do a better job than me.
Sounds like my plan as soon as I get into work tomorrow.
#12
Fish
lol, rivets and me have some baggage....He hates me, I like him, he doesn't know this yet...... But anyways, post your numbers!!!!!!
Fish
ok I'm not really sure what you are talking about but like I said I will post the numbers tomorrow. Thanks
lol, rivets and me have some baggage....He hates me, I like him, he doesn't know this yet...... But anyways, post your numbers!!!!!!
#13
C
crazyelite22
Model number LHP5220KC
SERIAL NUMBER 240915.
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crazyelite22
lol, rivets and me have some baggage....He hates me, I like him, he doesn't know this yet...... But anyways, post your numbers!!!!!!
Model number LHP5220KC
SERIAL NUMBER 240915.
#14
Fish
Fish
Here is the schematic, so we all have a map of what you have.
Attachments
#15
Fish
Fish
What about the engine?
#16
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
Just a quick question about that schematic I'm currently working on a ex mark lazer that is basically identical to the OP other than a smaller cutting deck and a nearly new Kawasaki fh690v that will not run without a battery it'll fire and run fine on a jump box or fully charged battery but as soon as you disconnect the power source the motor dies the stator appears to test fine, I replaced the rectifier and still the same issue but I guess in the process of swapping engines they had to "integrate" the new engine into the original wiring harness, so I'm looking at the schematic that you posted and am a little confused by the lack of a component name at the engine end of the schematic, I assume that the rectifier is one of the groups and if so it has four wires where as the rectifier fit this new engine only has three posts to land to, how in the world do I figure this one out?Here is the schematic, so we all have a map of what you have.
#17
Fish
Fish
Are you saying that you disconnect the battery totally, or just the jumper cable to it?
Does your carburetor have a solenoid on the bottom of the carb? Can you snap a few pics?
Does your carburetor have a solenoid on the bottom of the carb? Can you snap a few pics?
#18
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
I was just saying, that when the power source is removed, it dies. I pulled the old battery as it was drained and with its age, I didn't think it would hold a charge and if so, not for long. So I was using the jump box in place of the battery.Are you saying that you disconnect the battery totally, or just the jumper cable to it?
Does your carburetor have a solenoid on the bottom of the carb? Can you snap a few pics?
#19
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
I was just saying that when the power source is removed, I pulled the old battery as it was drained and the age of it I didn't think it would hold a charge and if so, not for long. So I was using the jump box in place of the battery.
#20
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
It's not letting me post photos, it says the files are too large and I'm just using my phone so I'm not exactly sure how to resize them.
#21
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
Yes it has a fuel shut off solenoid at the carb. But I'm fairly sure that's not what's shutting it down when I take away it's juice. I'm kinda thinking it's the stator not functioning correctly but it does show like 20-30 volts AC current coming out......It's not letting me post photos, it says the files are too large and I'm just using my phone so I'm not exactly sure how to resize them.
#22
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Running with a flat battery wrecks the stator & the rectifier on mowers with electric PTO's
While the magneto is self energizing the carb solenoid needs stable DC voltage
When it does not get 9 V DC it shuts off the fuel supply to the main jet & the mower stops
While the magneto is self energizing the carb solenoid needs stable DC voltage
When it does not get 9 V DC it shuts off the fuel supply to the main jet & the mower stops
#23
Fish
I believe that you will have to have a battery in the loop for the solenoid to work/open.
Fish
You likely would have to share them to something else.It's not letting me post photos, it says the files are too large and I'm just using my phone so I'm not exactly sure how to resize them.
I believe that you will have to have a battery in the loop for the solenoid to work/open.
#24
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
Hey Fish & bertsmobile1, thank you guys for replying and for emphasizing the fuel shut off solenoid and the fact that it would require the battery to be in line to remain open, explained like that and having replaced the battery, rectifier, and the stator pushing out 20-30 volts ac to the new rectifier I'm much more confident that the problem is resolved, I was just worried that I was going to be getting a call from my customer today when the battery died and his machine cut off. I've got no call and it's almost the end of the day so I can breathe easier. Thanks guys.
#25
B
bertsmobile1
If a good battery can not move the plunger then the solenoid it gone ( quite rare ) or gummed up ( quite common )
As readings go from peak + to peak - so 12V DC should read 24V AC at the stator
To charge a battery you need to apply a bigger voltage than the battery output so a battery needs at least 12.8V to recharge and by prefference 13 V to 14.5 V
When you get above that you cook the battery and will cause hydrogen gas to be generated .
A quick & dirty test is to put your meter on AC across the battery terminals
IF you get an AC reading higher then the DC reading then the rectifier ( diodes ) are failing and that will kill the battery in a very short time so you might not be out of the woods yet .
Always check the alternator and rectifier / diode when you do a service job or good chance the job will come back and you will get stuck with replacing the battery under warranty
B
bertsmobile1
I test the fuel solenoids with a 9V transistor battery , now only seen in a multimeter .Hey Fish & bertsmobile1, thank you guys for replying and for emphasizing the fuel shut off solenoid and the fact that it would require the battery to be in line to remain open, explained like that and having replaced the battery, rectifier, and the stator pushing out 20-30 volts ac to the new rectifier I'm much more confident that the problem is resolved, I was just worried that I was going to be getting a call from my customer today when the battery died and his machine cut off. I've got no call and it's almost the end of the day so I can breathe easier. Thanks guys.
If a good battery can not move the plunger then the solenoid it gone ( quite rare ) or gummed up ( quite common )
As readings go from peak + to peak - so 12V DC should read 24V AC at the stator
To charge a battery you need to apply a bigger voltage than the battery output so a battery needs at least 12.8V to recharge and by prefference 13 V to 14.5 V
When you get above that you cook the battery and will cause hydrogen gas to be generated .
A quick & dirty test is to put your meter on AC across the battery terminals
IF you get an AC reading higher then the DC reading then the rectifier ( diodes ) are failing and that will kill the battery in a very short time so you might not be out of the woods yet .
Always check the alternator and rectifier / diode when you do a service job or good chance the job will come back and you will get stuck with replacing the battery under warranty
#26
Keen@n777
Keen@n777
I had already replaced the rectifier as it wasn't putting/converting enough DC power back to the battery, the stator was/is generating 20-30 volts AC so that's how I came to the conclusion that the rectifier was gone and needed to be replaced. The customer used the machine all day yesterday and today and said it was running great, now he did but a new Walmart battery for it that he promptly installed backwards, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it. Anyways, if it was going to kill the battery I would imagine after two days of constant commercial use it would have either drained the battery due to it not charging or fired it in a case of over charging. However in my experience nothing is outside the realm of possibility so I would be shocked if I get a call in a few days, but I'm also holding onto hope that my phone won't ring. If it does, I'll be back and y'all will know. Thanks again for the helpful info and advice, very much appreciated.I test the fuel solenoids with a 9V transistor battery , now only seen in a multimeter .
If a good battery can not move the plunger then the solenoid it gone ( quite rare ) or gummed up ( quite common )
As readings go from peak + to peak - so 12V DC should read 24V AC at the stator
To charge a battery you need to apply a bigger voltage than the battery output so a battery needs at least 12.8V to recharge and by prefference 13 V to 14.5 V
When you get above that you cook the battery and will cause hydrogen gas to be generated .
A quick & dirty test is to put your meter on AC across the battery terminals
IF you get an AC reading higher then the DC reading then the rectifier ( diodes ) are failing and that will kill the battery in a very short time so you might not be out of the woods yet .
Always check the alternator and rectifier / diode when you do a service job or good chance the job will come back and you will get stuck with replacing the battery under warranty