Export thread

Oil issue ..

#1

P

puckbag

First let me say that I have no idea what I'm doing lol as you will soon find out. I'm using my lawnmower for about 15 minutes today..it's running good and then all of a sudden it decides to stop. Fuel is full so I check the oil..oil is low so I go to the hardware store and he tells me what kind of oil I need after I tell him my model of lawnmower. I come home, put the oil in and it still wont start. After coming inside and doing some reading I realize that I just dumped 16oz of 2 stroke oil into a 4 stroke engine..please advise as to what my next course of action should be. Good news preferred :mad: Thanks for any help.

Its a Kohler xt-7 engine.


#2

K

KennyV

Welcome to LMF

You are likely over filled... & with the wrong type of oil...
First check, with the dip stick, Are you over filled?

Second, dump the oil out... and refill with a Good engine oil... (I prefer synthetic, and use Rotella T6 in all my engines, gas, diesel, air cooled, water cooled, old and new engines).

IF the crankcase was overfilled, you MAY have oil in the combustion chamber... not a big deal, but it can foul the spark plug... remove the spark plug and pull the starter rope several times to clear any oil, clean oil from spark plug (if any is on it)... replace the spark plug.

This will put you back to where you started... but you should be now full, with the correct oil...:smile:

Try to restart and post back with the results...

BTW... what you did is not at all uncommon and it will not hurt anything.:thumbsup: if it was over filled with oil, it may smoke a little more than normal at the next start up.... that will go away quickly... :smile:KennyV


#3

P

puckbag

Thanks Kenny I appreciate the reply and will do all that you recommended. My other question is would the lack of oil be what caused it to just stop in the first place?


#4

K

KennyV

puckbag said:
... would the lack of oil be what caused it to just stop in the first place?
Click to expand...

I certainly hope NOT....
Was it a little low or was it out???
If it was out... the engine is likely toast... You can not run an air cooled engine with no oil for any length of time... :smile:KennyV


#5

P

puckbag

KennyV said:
I certainly hope NOT....
Was it a little low or was it out???
If it was out... the engine is likely toast... You can not run an air cooled engine with no oil for any length of time... :smile:KennyV
Click to expand...

How would I know if the engine is toast Kenny? When I try to start it it sounds like it wants to start. Just trying to figure out what mAde it just stop in the first place. Thanks


#6

jmurray01

jmurray01

Right... Let me get this right.

You had 2 stroke oil in it in the first place, or you had the right oil in, but topped it up with 2 stroke oil ?

If you had 2 stroke oil in it in the first place, the oil will have been so thin it will have got into the combustion chamber and basically drowned the engine. That won't cause any lasting damage, and will simply require a few pulls with the spark plug out, then it should run again.

If it died with the right 4 stroke oil in, this is more serious.

It is likely that although there was still some oil on the dipstick, there wasn't enough to lubricate the piston properly, and thus it wore down the piston rings, lost compression, and died.

That would also explain why it fires but does not start, as the fuel would ignite whether there was compression or not, but if there isn't sufficient compression the engine will not start.

The first thing to do would be to fill it with 4 stroke oil, replace the spark plug, then try and start it.

If it just fires, your engine is probably toast as Kenny said.


#7

K

KennyV

puckbag said:
How would I know if the engine is toast Kenny? When I try to start it it sounds like it wants to start. Just trying to figure out what mAde it just stop in the first place. Thanks
Click to expand...

Lets not go to the worst case just yet...
You didn't say...
1. How low was it before you added?
2. After realizing that you put in 2cycle oil, (but before you drained it), how full was it?
3. When you took the spark plug out, did it look to have oil on it?
4. When you pulled the starter rope, with the spark plug out, & the correct amount of engine oil, Did it blow any excess oil out of the empty spark plug hole?

What were the results of the above 4 ? .... This is not a disaster... yet.

We can systematically determine why it stopped, but first lets see where we are now... :smile:KennyV


#8

jmurray01

jmurray01

KennyV said:
Lets not go to the worst case just yet...
You didn't say...
1. How low was it before you added?
2. After realizing that you put in 2cycle oil, (but before you drained it), how full was it?
3. When you took the spark plug out, did it look to have oil on it?
4. When you pulled the starter rope, with the spark plug out, & the correct amount of engine oil, Did it blow any excess oil out of the empty spark plug hole?

What were the results of the above 4 ? .... This is not a disaster... yet.

We can systematically determine why it stopped, but first lets see where we are now... :smile:KennyV
Click to expand...
I suppose, since this guy says he is a beginner, I'd better mention that when you are spinning the engine without the spark plug in, make sure the lead is as far away from the engine as you can get it.

You can never be too safe when it comes to oil/fuel and possible sparks!

Hopefully tomorrow (for him anyway, here in Scotland it is already 8.02AM!) he will answer our questions.


#9

P

puckbag

jmurray01 said:
Right... Let me get this right.

You had 2 stroke oil in it in the first place, or you had the right oil in, but topped it up with 2 stroke oil ?

If you had 2 stroke oil in it in the first place, the oil will have been so thin it will have got into the combustion chamber and basically drowned the engine. That won't cause any lasting damage, and will simply require a few pulls with the spark plug out, then it should run again.

If it died with the right 4 stroke oil in, this is more serious.

It is likely that although there was still some oil on the dipstick, there wasn't enough to lubricate the piston properly, and thus it wore down the piston rings, lost compression, and died.

That would also explain why it fires but does not start, as the fuel would ignite whether there was compression or not, but if there isn't sufficient compression the engine will not start.

The first thing to do would be to fill it with 4 stroke oil, replace the spark plug, then try and start it.

If it just fires, your engine is probably toast as Kenny said.
Click to expand...

The right oil was in it in the 1st place and I replaced it with the wrong oil, haven't had a chance to drain and refill..will do after work tomorrow. I should replace the spark plus as well as the oil? Thanks again.


#10

jmurray01

jmurray01

Check the spark plug, and if it is sooty (black residue on the tip), or oil soaked, replace it! If not, check the gap (I'm sure Kenny will know better than me what the gap should be set at), and refit it.


#11

P

puckbag

KennyV said:
Lets not go to the worst case just yet...
You didn't say...
1. How low was it before you added?
2. After realizing that you put in 2cycle oil, (but before you drained it), how full was it?
3. When you took the spark plug out, did it look to have oil on it?
4. When you pulled the starter rope, with the spark plug out, & the correct amount of engine oil, Did it blow any excess oil out of the empty spark plug hole?

What were the results of the above 4 ? .... This is not a disaster... yet.

We can systematically determine why it stopped, but first lets see where we are now... :smile:KennyV
Click to expand...

My plan of attack should be as follows? :

1. Drain oil
2. Refill with proper oil and amount
3. Pull out spark plug
4. Give it a few pulls and determine if any oil is coming out of the hole


#12

jmurray01

jmurray01

Yep, including checking the spark plug.


#13

K

KennyV

puckbag said:
My plan of attack should be as follows? :

1. Drain oil
2. Refill with proper oil and amount
3. Pull out spark plug
4. Give it a few pulls and determine if any oil is coming out of the hole
Click to expand...

Yes but... I am still curious as to exactly how low the oil level was to begin with...
a. was it closer to empty? or closer to full?
b. How much 2cycle oil did you put in? Did you just bring it to full? OR was it over full?
:smile:KennyV


#14

P

puckbag

KennyV said:
Yes but... I am still curious as to exactly how low the oil level was to begin with...
a. was it closer to empty? or closer to full?
b. How much 2cycle oil did you put in? Did you just bring it to full? OR was it over full?
:smile:KennyV
Click to expand...


The oil was empty..a tinybit on the bottom of the dipstick, so I filled it with 16 oz like the manual says.


#15

jmurray01

jmurray01

puckbag said:
The oil was empty..a tinybit on the bottom of the dipstick, so I filled it with 16 oz like the manual says.
Click to expand...
Oh... It is beginning to look like the piston rings may have worn down...


#16

K

KennyV

I know this must seem unimportant... but I'll ask anyway..
After adding 16oz of oil... was it then full OR overfull? :smile:KennyV

If it was over full, was it over full by a lot?


#17

P

puckbag

It was full, not over full. I have fresh oil and a new spark plug but I'm still at work for a few more hours. I will let you guys know the results later tonight. Once again thanks for all your help. Judging by your reactions its not looking too good for my mower lol.


#18

K

KennyV

Your right... It is not looking good at this point.
The reason I say that is, If the engine holds only 16oz of oil & you put in 16oz of oil... That addition did NOT overfill the crankcase, So there must have been no oil in it at the time it quit running... The dipstick may have had a build up drop at the bottom, but that was not from the oil level.

If the above is correct then, I think you need to put a compression gauge into the spark plug hole, I suspect, like jmurray01 stated, your rings may well be compromised & you may have little or no compression. KennyV


#19

P

puckbag

So....I first went out and drained the oil..well there was way more than 16 oz of oil in there..more like 25 oz :frown: I filled it with fresh oil and then pulled out the spark plug. I will attach the picture of the spark plug..don't think its good. The problem is that the gentlemen at the store gave me the wrong spark plug as you will also see in the pics. Next move?

Original plug

IMG00593-20110627-1926.jpg

Wrong one I was given

IMG00594-20110627-1926.jpg


Side by side

IMG00595-20110627-1926.jpg


#20

K

KennyV

Thanks for the p[pictures... Don't see what # the plug is but according to the manual.
ON page 12...
The standard spark plug for models XT-7 and XTR-7 is a Champion RC12YC (Kohler part number 12 132 02-S). Equivalent, alternative brand plugs can also be used.

On page 13 it gives your oil (refill) capacity as 20 to 22 oz.

This is the Manual for your engine: http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/14_590_02_0109_eng.pdf

:smile:KennyV


#21

P

puckbag

I"m going to go get the proper spark plug tomorrow...should I then put it in and give it a go? If nothing should I roll it off a cliff?


#22

K

KennyV

Don't know about your auto parts places there ... but can you 'borrow' a compression gauge? It will tell you quickly what is up...
No need to head for the cliff ... Yet. :smile:KennyV


#23

jmurray01

jmurray01

First of all the store gives you oil for a 2 Stroke when you said you had a 4 Stroke, and now, they give you the wrong plug!? I think you'd better shop at another store!

Like Kenny said though, a compression gauge will show you the extent of your problems.


#24

P

puckbag

jmurray01 said:
First of all the store gives you oil for a 2 Stroke when you said you had a 4 Stroke, and now, they give you the wrong plug!? I think you'd better shop at another store!

Like Kenny said though, a compression gauge will show you the extent of your problems.
Click to expand...

So, new oil, new plug and nothing..not suprised. My dad suggested grounding the plug and pulling the cord to see if there was any spark which there was not. A strong smell of gas came out after pulling the cord a few times..dont know if that means anything. As for the compression gauge ..I think that's out of my skill set lol..I will take it into the shop and let them have a look at it. It sounds like it wants to start when I pull the cord..kind of like when it would be flooded. Anyways..thanks for all your help guys and I will get back with the update early next week.:confused2:


#25

jmurray01

jmurray01

puckbag said:
So, new oil, new plug and nothing..not suprised. My dad suggested grounding the plug and pulling the cord to see if there was any spark which there was not. A strong smell of gas came out after pulling the cord a few times..dont know if that means anything. As for the compression gauge ..I think that's out of my skill set lol..I will take it into the shop and let them have a look at it. It sounds like it wants to start when I pull the cord..kind of like when it would be flooded. Anyways..thanks for all your help guys and I will get back with the update early next week.:confused2:
Click to expand...
OK, I'm 99.9% sure it is piston rings now.

How about you Kenny ?


#26

reddragon

reddragon

try some starting fluid....if it fires up,then its probably the carb


#27

K

KennyV

jmurray01 said:
OK, I'm 99.9% sure it is piston rings now.

How about you Kenny ?
Click to expand...

Low oil is not good for the rings... No oil is very bad for the rings... & other engine parts...

A quick compression check will tell...
And I also agree with the starting fluid spray, if you think you are having a fuel delivery problem... but this sounds to be more of a compression issue...

Let us know what you find.... :smile:KennyV


#28

P

puckbag

Sorry guys been busy and didn't get back with an update. So I totally forgot that my brother in law was really handy with this kind of stuff so I dropped it off at his house as a last resort before taking it in. Dropped it off at 330pm and he text me at 430pm to tell me it was fixed. I asked him what the issue was and he said it was electrical. Didn't elaborate much more than that knowing that I really have no business trying to understand this stuff lol. Anyways..it runs like it's on steriods now :laughing: Thanks for you all your help and I know where to come if I need anything else.


Footer Links 1

Top