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Odd Issue with Kohler Courage 23

#1

Z

Z7What

I have a 2006 Cub Cadet LT1050 with a Kohler Courage 23 with 350hrs. Two weeks ago i performed my annual maintenance. I changed the air filter, fuel filter, installed new correctly gapped plugs, change the oil and oil filter and sharpened the blades. After performing this work i cut my lawn and it ran great, like it always has.

This week i went to cut my lawn again. I started the mower, drove it out of my garage and when i engaged the blades the engine stumbled and quickly killed. Now i cant get it to start again. It will spin over but will not start.

I have confirmed the following
*Oil level is where it should be.
*Pulse pump is working.
*Fuel is getting to the carb.
*The fuel solenoid on the bottom of the carb bowl is working correctly.
*It does have spark.
*30amp fuse on harness is good.
*The PTO solenoid is working.
*Checked valve clearance (all were @ .005).
*Compression Test = 168# and 170#

Anybody ever come across something like this before or have any other ideas on what to look for?

Thanks Wayne


#2

R

Rivets

If it came to me there are two things I would check. Remove the shroud and flywheel bolt and check to see if the flywheel key is sheared. While you have the shroud off check to see if the cover bolts are tight. Common problem to find them loose. If these two checks result in a positive outcome then I would spray some carb cleaner into the carb and see if you get a pop. We need to figure out if it is a fuel or ignition problem. Post back with results. This manual may come in handy. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...urage-SV470-SV480-SV530-SV540-SV590-SV600.pdf


#3

V

VegetiveSteam

Rivets said:
If it came to me there are two things I would check. Remove the shroud and flywheel bolt and check to see if the flywheel key is sheared. While you have the shroud off check to see if the cover bolts are tight. Common problem to find them loose. If these two checks result in a positive outcome then I would spray some carb cleaner into the carb and see if you get a pop. We need to figure out if it is a fuel or ignition problem. Post back with results. This manual may come in handy. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...urage-SV470-SV480-SV530-SV540-SV590-SV600.pdf
Click to expand...
Hope you don't mind me clarifying. This is a twin cylinder Courage not a single cylinder.


#4

V

VegetiveSteam

Z7What said:
I have a 2006 Cub Cadet LT1050 with a Kohler Courage 23 with 350hrs. Two weeks ago i performed my annual maintenance. I changed the air filter, fuel filter, installed new correctly gapped plugs, change the oil and oil filter and sharpened the blades. After performing this work i cut my lawn and it ran great, like it always has.

This week i went to cut my lawn again. I started the mower, drove it out of my garage and when i engaged the blades the engine stumbled and quickly killed. Now i cant get it to start again. It will spin over but will not start.

I have confirmed the following
*Oil level is where it should be.
*Pulse pump is working.
*Fuel is getting to the carb.
*The fuel solenoid on the bottom of the carb bowl is working correctly.
*It does have spark.
*30amp fuse on harness is good.
*The PTO solenoid is working.
*Checked valve clearance (all were @ .005).
*Compression Test = 168# and 170#

Anybody ever come across something like this before or have any other ideas on what to look for?

Thanks Wayne
Click to expand...
Well, you have spark, compression and fuel. Not much left. Ignition timing maybe. Valve timing maybe. Rivets mentioned a possible sheared flywheel key. Not very common in this application but definitely not impossible. It would be worth a look.

How did you check spark?


#5

Z

Z7What

Rivets said:
If it came to me there are two things I would check. Remove the shroud and flywheel bolt and check to see if the flywheel key is sheared. While you have the shroud off check to see if the cover bolts are tight. Common problem to find them loose. If these two checks result in a positive outcome then I would spray some carb cleaner into the carb and see if you get a pop. We need to figure out if it is a fuel or ignition problem. Post back with results. This manual may come in handy. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...urage-SV470-SV480-SV530-SV540-SV590-SV600.pdf
Click to expand...
I will take a look at the keyway today.

Thank you for the link to the manual. I thought I printed it a while back but I couldn’t find it the other day when I was troubleshooting it. Mine is a SV720 iirc, the manual you linked only goes to the SV720, is it possible to link the manual for the 720? Nevermind I was able to find it. Thanks again!

Wayne


#6

Z

Z7What

VegetiveSteam said:
Well, you have spark, compression and fuel. Not much left. Ignition timing maybe. Valve timing maybe. Rivets mentioned a possible sheared flywheel key. Not very common in this application but definitely not impossible. It would be worth a look.

How did you check spark?
Click to expand...
I removed the plug, reattached the wire and held the plug against the block while cranking it.

Wayne


#7

R

Rivets

This manual for the twin. https://resources.kohler.com/power/...05.699966129.1715971117-1884316627.1715971117


#8

V

VegetiveSteam

Z7What said:
I will take a look at the keyway today.

Thank you for the link to the manual. I thought I printed it a while back but I couldn’t find it the other day when I was troubleshooting it. Mine is a SV720 iirc, the manual you linked only goes to the SV720, is it possible to link the manual for the 720? Nevermind I was able to find it. Thanks again!

Wayne
Click to expand...


#9

Z

Z7What

Rivets said:
If it came to me there are two things I would check. Remove the shroud and flywheel bolt and check to see if the flywheel key is sheared. While you have the shroud off check to see if the cover bolts are tight. Common problem to find them loose. If these two checks result in a positive outcome then I would spray some carb cleaner into the carb and see if you get a pop. We need to figure out if it is a fuel or ignition problem. Post back with results. This manual may come in handy. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...urage-SV470-SV480-SV530-SV540-SV590-SV600.pdf
Click to expand...
The woodruff key was sheared and oddly enough I had one that I bought 6-7yrs ago for some unknown reason!

Swapped the woodruff out, clearanced the coils(with a business card), installed new plugs gapped at .030 and still nothing.

Wayne


#10

Z

Z7What

Well it just so happens I just discovered water in my fuel so hopefully that’s why it’s not running after changing the woodruff key.


#11

Z

Z7What

She purring like she never has before. It’s always had a very slight slight miss when cold. While troubleshooting the woodruff key and water in the fuel issue I saw a spark coming from one of the plug boots. Now that everything is fixed she’s running better than ever. Thanks guys!!!


#12

R

Rivets

Thank you for sharing what you found. Most guys don’t do that.


#13

J

jviews12

thanks for being honest about the dirty watery fuel.


#14

poncho144

poncho144

Yeah, dat wuz my first thought, glad ya checked fuel but how inna hell didja git water in it?
I've had flat stale gas before but never in 80 plus years found h20 in any...


#15

S

sastark

Z7What said:
I have a 2006 Cub Cadet LT1050 with a Kohler Courage 23 with 350hrs. Two weeks ago i performed my annual maintenance. I changed the air filter, fuel filter, installed new correctly gapped plugs, change the oil and oil filter and sharpened the blades. After performing this work i cut my lawn and it ran great, like it always has.

This week i went to cut my lawn again. I started the mower, drove it out of my garage and when i engaged the blades the engine stumbled and quickly killed. Now i cant get it to start again. It will spin over but will not start.

I have confirmed the following
*Oil level is where it should be.
*Pulse pump is working.
*Fuel is getting to the carb.
*The fuel solenoid on the bottom of the carb bowl is working correctly.
*It does have spark.
*30amp fuse on harness is good.
*The PTO solenoid is working.
*Checked valve clearance (all were @ .005).
*Compression Test = 168# and 170#

Anybody ever come across something like this before or have any other ideas on what to look for?

Thanks Wayne
Click to expand...
Had a problem with the JD Gator - it would turn over (cold) start and run for a while then it would inexplicably cough a couple times and die. Then I couldn't get it running again. This went on for a year or so. Had it in to the shop - they couldn't see what it was. This time, I sent it back and said it was doing the same thing (all this after checkup, tuneup and new battery). Turned out there was something caught in the carburetor. The John Deere place has a machine that cleans carburetors fully. Much cheaper than buying a new one, they tell me. Haven't got it back yet, but we are all feeling confident that that was the problem.


#16

Z

Z7What

poncho144 said:
Yeah, dat wuz my first thought, glad ya checked fuel but how inna hell didja git water in it?
I've had flat stale gas before but never in 80 plus years found h20 in any...
Click to expand...
I have zero clue how water got in the tank. The mower is always garage kept and the tank I use to fill it also fills all my other equipment and 4wheelers and they are running fine.


#17

T

TobyU

Z7What said:
I have a 2006 Cub Cadet LT1050 with a Kohler Courage 23 with 350hrs. Two weeks ago i performed my annual maintenance. I changed the air filter, fuel filter, installed new correctly gapped plugs, change the oil and oil filter and sharpened the blades. After performing this work i cut my lawn and it ran great, like it always has.

This week i went to cut my lawn again. I started the mower, drove it out of my garage and when i engaged the blades the engine stumbled and quickly killed. Now i cant get it to start again. It will spin over but will not start.

I have confirmed the following
*Oil level is where it should be.
*Pulse pump is working.
*Fuel is getting to the carb.
*The fuel solenoid on the bottom of the carb bowl is working correctly.
*It does have spark.
*30amp fuse on harness is good.
*The PTO solenoid is working.
*Checked valve clearance (all were @ .005).
*Compression Test = 168# and 170#

Anybody ever come across something like this before or have any other ideas on what to look for?

Thanks Wayne
Click to expand...
Keys usually don't shear on riding mowers and especially not on Kohler engines because they use a steel key from the factory unlike Briggs that uses an aluminum one.

I most likely culprit for them shearing would be a flaky seat switch causing the ignition to kick on and off on bombs or if you're leaning over etc unless someone was tickling the ignition key turn it off and back on.
Other than that the only other thing would be a severely under torqued flywheel.


#18

Z

Z7What

TobyU said:
Keys usually don't shear on riding mowers and especially not on Kohler engines because they use a steel key from the factory unlike Briggs that uses an aluminum one.

I most likely culprit for them shearing would be a flaky seat switch causing the ignition to kick on and off on bombs or if you're leaning over etc unless someone was tickling the ignition key turn it off and back on.
Other than that the only other thing would be a severely under torqued flywheel.
Click to expand...
The fly wheel bolt was tight. My only guess is that the sudden load when engaging the PTO is what caused it.

It was a cheap and easy fix and because of this issue, while troubleshooting I found the spark plug boot had a small crack that has caused a very slight miss when cold for the last 7yrs I’ve owned it. It now runs better than it ever has.

I bought the Cub and a JD 8.75ft/lb self propelled walk behind from a neighbor 7yrs ago for $300. I personally think the Cub makes a better cut than my buddies $10K SCAG.

IMG_8950.jpeg

IMG_8056.jpeg


#19

T

TobyU

Z7What said:
The fly wheel bolt was tight. My only guess is that the sudden load when engaging the PTO is what caused it.

It was a cheap and easy fix and because of this issue, while troubleshooting I found the spark plug boot had a small crack that has caused a very slight miss when cold for the last 7yrs I’ve owned it. It now runs better than it ever has.

I bought the Cub and a JD 8.75ft/lb self propelled walk behind from a neighbor 7yrs ago for $300. I personally think the Cub makes a better cut than my buddies $10K SCAG.

View attachment 68763

View attachment 68764
Click to expand...
It's just VERY rare for a Kohler or Honda to shear a key.


#20

I

ILENGINE

TobyU said:
It's just VERY rare for a Kohler or Honda to shear a key.
Click to expand...
Just rare for break flywheel keys on any engine used on a rider due to the belt drive acts as a shock absorber preventing the suddent stop that kills the keys.


#21

R

Rivets

I have to admit that I sheared one on a Kohler twin when I turned the key to the start position while the engine was running. Jammed the bendix so hard that the flywheel just stopped. Didn’t expect that. Lucky I didn’t break the starter shaft or a rod off. Learned a lesson that day.


#22

B

bertsmobile1

Rivets said:
I have to admit that I sheared one on a Kohler twin when I turned the key to the start position while the engine was running. Jammed the bendix so hard that the flywheel just stopped. Didn’t expect that. Lucky I didn’t break the starter shaft or a rod off. Learned a lesson that day.
Click to expand...
I find that weird than almost every mower will allow you to do that when a simple relay would prevent it .
Now back to the OP
Tapers are easy to damage so get some very fine lapping paste ( I use Brasso ) and lap the flywheel to the taper .
Keep on going till it is nice & shinny


#23

T

TobyU

bertsmobile1 said:
I find that weird than almost every mower will allow you to do that when a simple relay would prevent it .
Now back to the OP
Tapers are easy to damage so get some very fine lapping paste ( I use Brasso ) and lap the flywheel to the taper .
Keep on going till it is nice & shinny
Click to expand...
What do you mean by tapers? You mean the Sledge style tapered press fit of the crankshaft into the matching shape on the flywheel?.
I don't worry about those getting damaged at all. It makes little difference. Lol
Just stick it on and hold it in the right place and tighten it up and actually it'll be fine.
Those keys aren't even there to stop it from spinning but rather just to line it up during the manufacturing process.
At least this is 95% the case.

Also, you can just line it up and get something to drive down into there while you're holding it. 😂
A nail, a screw with the head cut off, a cotter pin shortened a little bit.
It don't matter!
I just put a new Briggs push mower engine back together yesterday with a couple pieces of cotter key in there because I didn't really feel like taking the flagpole off of another one to scavenge an actual Briggs key.


#24

T

TobyU

ILENGINE said:
Just rare for break flywheel keys on any engine used on a rider due to the belt drive acts as a shock absorber preventing the suddent stop that kills the keys.
Click to expand...
You are very correct and rarely does hitting anything cause these to shear.
What usually does it is somebody messing around with the ignition switch turning it on and off or a flaky switch or even more likely when their seat switch isn't adjusted properly or it's bent or something and they're bouncing around causes the ignition to go on and off.
Engines are meant to screw with them like that.


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