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Did a test recently. I have a 5 gallon can that is appropriately dosed with StarTron.
Which is in the jar on the right.
Jar on the left is straight pump gas.
Both jars filled filled up to 1 cup mark, and I added a eye droppers worth of water, so each jar has the exact same amount of water in it, stirred both jars after adding water, set for 1 hour. Phase separation has occurred on the left, on the right.. I see no phase seperation...which is one of start trons claims, it changes the surface tension between the water and fuel.. My next test is to put the startron/fuel/water mix into 4 cycle blower that I occasionally use and see if it will actually Run it...

Well. Somebody's gotta do it.

Internet expert here. You are doing it wrong. Not sure what it is but I am sure it's wrong.

Hammermechanicman said:

Well. Somebody's gotta do it.

Internet expert here. You are doing it wrong. Not sure what it is but I am sure it's wrong.

Click to expand...

Cannot see the water. Can you add food dye to water to make test more interesting?

Scrubcadet10 said:

Did a test recently. I have a 5 gallon can that is appropriately dosed with StarTron.
Which is in the jar on the right.
Jar on the left is straight pump gas.
Both jars filled filled up to 1 cup mark, and I added a eye droppers worth of water, so each jar has the exact same amount of water in it, stirred both jars after adding water, set for 1 hour. Phase separation has occurred on the left, on the right.. I see no phase seperation...which is one of start trons claims, it changes the surface tension between the water and fuel.. My next test is to put the startron/fuel/water mix into 4 cycle blower that I occasionally use and see if it will actually Run it...

Click to expand...

Interesting experiment... I'm not sure that I would use StarTron because if water got in the gas tank and you couldn't tell because there's no separation... diagnosing a no-start would be a heck of a lot harder. I run seafoam usually and I've never had a problem with any ethanol buildup or clogging since!

Hammermechanicman said:

Well. Somebody's gotta do it.

Internet expert here. You are doing it wrong. Not sure what it is but I am sure it's wrong.

Click to expand...

I have never even thought about intentionally ruining my precious $4.00/gal gas with water. That is what is wrong, but I guess someone had to take one for the team.

I have lawnboy S21ZPM that is 30+ years old. It is a trim mower now so it only sees a few tanks of gas a year. At the end of the season I turn off the gas valve and run the cab dry. In the spring I turn the valve on and star the mower. Gas in it could be 6 to 8 months old and has oil in it. Mower starts every year. I park my 36HP ferris Z and put a battery tender on it for the winter and do nothing with the E10 regular fuel. Never have a problem starting in the spring. I buy gas 35 gallons at a time in 5 gallon cans. Have had a few get lost in the shuffle and sit for over a year in the barn. Put it in equipment and it ran fine.
When folks bring stuff to the shop and the carb is a snotty mess and the say it only sat for a couple months it is a little hard to believe.

I have also seen an old vented metal 5 gal can set in a humid summer and collect enough water in a few days that it filled a large float bowl on a tractor with water .

Scrubcadet10 said:

Did a test recently. I have a 5 gallon can that is appropriately dosed with StarTron.
Which is in the jar on the right.
Jar on the left is straight pump gas.
Both jars filled filled up to 1 cup mark, and I added a eye droppers worth of water, so each jar has the exact same amount of water in it, stirred both jars after adding water, set for 1 hour. Phase separation has occurred on the left, on the right.. I see no phase seperation...which is one of start trons claims, it changes the surface tension between the water and fuel.. My next test is to put the startron/fuel/water mix into 4 cycle blower that I occasionally use and see if it will actually Run it...

Click to expand...

I have been a fan of Startron for over 15 years. I use it in almost every thing I own that has an engine, gas or diesel. We had people in our fishing club that were using Stabil in their fuel with generally fewer problems than those that used nothing. Many of our 200+ members in our fishing club were frequently having fuel related problems...that is what led me to call StarBright. I ended up speaking with the VP of the company and we spoke for almost an hour. After that I did some testing on some old equipment that had gummed up carbs from sitting a LONG time without use. Needless to say I was impressed enough (after a week of testing) that I endorsed the product to our fishing club. After that...fuel issues pretty much became a subject of the past.

That said... All of this is just my opinion but based on facts based upon my personal experience with the product. I am often amazed that people that have no actual hands on experience with a product can become an expert (for or against...doesn't matter). I do most of all my mechanical work on our airplane, motorhome, vehicles, boats and yard equipment...so I have a pretty good knowledge base to work from. Just like the OP, I have done the water/fuel test and the water basically just mixed with the gas. So after all these years, I remain positive about the benefits of Startron. Thanks!

Not sure but this might be a fuel problem

Craftsman Garage said:

I have never even thought about intentionally ruining my precious $4.00/gal gas with water. That is what is wrong, but I guess someone had to take one for the team.

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$2.99 where I'm at.. not bad but it could be cheaper

Craftsman Garage said:

Interesting experiment... I'm not sure that I would use StarTron because if water got in the gas tank and you couldn't tell because there's no separation... diagnosing a no-start would be a heck of a lot harder. I run seafoam usually and I've never had a problem with any ethanol buildup or clogging since!

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Start Stron is supposed to make it where the water will burn out with the fuel.... I'm going to test that next to see if this gas will actually run and see if I notice a performance decrease.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Start Stron is supposed to make it where the water will burn out with the fuel.... I'm going to test that next to see if this gas will actually run and see if I notice a performance decrease.

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Heet is what I use if a tiny bit of water is in the fuel. Seafoam makes you feel good but does very little. I run 87 octane with 10% ethanol and never have fuel issues with my equipment. Everyone “swears by” their own experience and methods and it is an ongoing topic of discussion.

It's about the "type" of can the fuel was in. Much as I hate to say but the new plastic "safety" cans are better than the old vented style. These new cans keep the fuel fresher. That and I use Sta-Bil so I don't have to recall how old it was.

I have a gallon of sta bil marine. I put it in customer equip but I never use it in my own stuff. It makes them feel better.

Scrubcadet10 said:

... stirred both jars after adding water, set for 1 hour. Phase separation has occurred on the left, on the right.. I see no phase separation...

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Not sure, but I believe the test is flawed in several aspects. Phase separation occurs when gasoline becomes saturated with water, which forces the water and gasoline to separate. While it's likely an eye dropper in a cup of water would lead to saturation, it's not certain.

Beyond that, it takes a while for the water to attach to the gasoline. While stirring helps the process, it could still take days for saturation to actually occur. So, it's possible the water seen in the jar could just be unabsorbed water settling. For example, if you add chocolate syrup to milk and stir you may find some syrup at the bottom of the glass. That's just because the syrup didn't mix properly not that it mixed and separated.

I don't believe Star Tron claims to remove water.

Youtube Farmer Tech or what ever his screen name is tested (Heet) alcohol and many others on removing water. Moral of that story was save your money cause nothing removed the water. They are to disperse the water and allow it to put up into carbs for example and burn off.

Use a new can, no E-10 and for me, stabilizer. Never had an issue since.

Hammermechanicman said:

I have lawnboy S21ZPM that is 30+ years old. It is a trim mower now so it only sees a few tanks of gas a year. At the end of the season I turn off the gas valve and run the cab dry. In the spring I turn the valve on and star the mower. Gas in it could be 6 to 8 months old and has oil in it. Mower starts every year. I park my 36HP ferris Z and put a battery tender on it for the winter and do nothing with the E10 regular fuel. Never have a problem starting in the spring. I buy gas 35 gallons at a time in 5 gallon cans. Have had a few get lost in the shuffle and sit for over a year in the barn. Put it in equipment and it ran fine.
When folks bring stuff to the shop and the carb is a snotty mess and the say it only sat for a couple months it is a little hard to believe.

I have also seen an old vented metal 5 gal can set in a humid summer and collect enough water in a few days that it filled a large float bowl on a tractor with water .

Click to expand...

I just finished a fuel pump job on a Honda TRX420. That had set for about a year (according to the customer). The gas valve was completely clogged. Even using the ultrasonic on it for at least 2hours (using Awesome), I still couldn't get it unclogged. The fuel pump was clogged. Luckily the injectors were free enough to still let gas through.
When pumping out the gas, it started out brownish orange. Then turned almost black by the time I got to the bottom of the tank.

My guess is it's set for probably close to 2 years.

Hammermechanicman said:

Not sure but this might be a fuel problemView attachment 69307

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A little WD 40 and some steel wool and it'll polish right up. Be good as new.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Did a test recently. I have a 5 gallon can that is appropriately dosed with StarTron.
Which is in the jar on the right.
Jar on the left is straight pump gas.
Both jars filled filled up to 1 cup mark, and I added a eye droppers worth of water, so each jar has the exact same amount of water in it, stirred both jars after adding water, set for 1 hour. Phase separation has occurred on the left, on the right.. I see no phase seperation...which is one of start trons claims, it changes the surface tension between the water and fuel.. My next test is to put the startron/fuel/water mix into 4 cycle blower that I occasionally use and see if it will actually Run it...

Click to expand...

Not being able to see the water, makes me think the StarTron helped to mix the water and gas. Which would still allow the water to burn with the fuel (somewhat), instead of the water sitting at the bottom of the fuel bowl.

I'm never understood why a carburetor wouldn't simply suck up the water and send it into the venturi. Eliminating it by sucking into the head. If there's only a little water, seems that once the gas starts getting moved though the carb and into the head, it would ignite and start running normally.

Fun fact. This past winter I forgot a plastic coffee can with about an inch of ice melter in it sitting in the barn. Found it yesterday. It is almost completely full of water it has pulled out of the air. Probably about a quart.

PTmowerMech said:

Not being able to see the water, makes me think the StarTron helped to mix the water and gas. Which would still allow the water to burn with the fuel (somewhat), instead of the water sitting at the bottom of the fuel bowl.

I'm never understood why a carburetor wouldn't simply suck up the water and send it into the venturi. Eliminating it by sucking into the head. If there's only a little water, seems that once the gas starts getting moved though the carb and into the head, it would ignite and start running normally.

Click to expand...

Maybe it would make more sense if you think about the spark as a heat source. The gas is ignited by that heat source. Water is a coolant. So the water cools the spark aka heat source below the temperature required to ignite the gas. Therefore the gas doesn't ignite therefore no run. Also if the spark plug gets wet with water and water is conductive of electricity it grounds out the spark.

ILENGINE said:

Maybe it would make more sense if you think about the spark as a heat source. The gas is ignited by that heat source. Water is a coolant. So the water cools the spark aka heat source below the temperature required to ignite the gas. Therefore the gas doesn't ignite therefore no run. Also if the spark plug gets wet with water and water is conductive of electricity it grounds out the spark.

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A combustion chamber is cold when an engine is trying to start.

About the water, keep in mind, I'm only talking about a small amount of water in the float bowl. Due to sitting and collecting moisture from condensation.

That would get sucked up into the intake fairly quickly. Especially if the carb is choked. Then once the gas starts getting sucked up, it would/should ignite. That would evaporate the water and send it out the exhaust.
It is a cup or more of water, I could see why it wouldn't start. But I'm only talking about maybe two table spoons.

A small amount of water in the float bowl can cause a no start condition.

Hammermechanicman said:

A small amount of water in the float bowl can cause a no start condition.

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I realize that. What gets me is why the suction from the pistons doesn't force the water up through the carb.

H2O is heavier than gas???

Just finished my third push mower of the last few days for water in the gas. Every one of them said the mower quit working after they filled it up. One guy says he uses one of the new politically correct gas cans. I guess they aren't as air tight as the government thought. E10 makes me money.

slomo said:

H2O is heavier than gas???

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Right.

That's the only thing that makes sense. That it's too heavy for the suction from the piston, and the push of the fuel pump, to push gas up through he main jet.

IMO the water is not as deleterious to combustion as some may think. Yes it wreaks havoc on parts corrosion though. One thing my old school dad would do to help remove carbon from the engine on a car is pour water into the carb while running. I did it myself many times. Sure it would cough a bit but it ran and had combustion.

Hammermechanicman said:

Not sure but this might be a fuel problemView attachment 69307

Click to expand...

Definite maybe!

Tiger Small Engine said:

Cannot see the water. Can you add food dye to water to make test more interesting?

Click to expand...

The bottle on the left has a milky appearance at the bottom, maybe 1/8"-1/4" high, the one on the right doesn't.

I don't know what/if anything was added, but this came out of the Ariens 42" I got recently. It started extremely easily, but as the previous owner wrote in the ad, 'white smoke' began not long after the engine warmed. The first thing I gig after looking into the tank was drain it, then refill. I didn't bother with the filter at that point and the white cloud stopped. The blue cloud, OTOH, was obvious. The cloudy gas is the way it looked immediately after filling the bottle and the other photo shows how it settled out after a couple of hours. There's no phase separation and in this area, we can't buy Ethanol-free.

The third photo is from a boat I worked on- the fuel tank had filled with water and this was the result of people trying to start the engine- it had Volvo-Penta fuel stabilizer, added during Winterization. Obviously, this is an extreme case, but it shows phase separation.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Did a test recently. I have a 5 gallon can that is appropriately dosed with StarTron.
Which is in the jar on the right.
Jar on the left is straight pump gas.
Both jars filled filled up to 1 cup mark, and I added a eye droppers worth of water, so each jar has the exact same amount of water in it, stirred both jars after adding water, set for 1 hour. Phase separation has occurred on the left, on the right.. I see no phase seperation...which is one of start trons claims, it changes the surface tension between the water and fuel.. My next test is to put the startron/fuel/water mix into 4 cycle blower that I occasionally use and see if it will actually Run it...

Click to expand...

So you are bragging StarTron treated gasoline will carry more water into your engine than straight pump gas.

How is this beneficial?

GrumpyCat said:

So you are bragging StarTron treated gasoline will carry more water into your engine than straight pump gas.

How is this beneficial?

Click to expand...

No, it will burn it.

How are you to burn, water?

We're dealing on the atom/particle scale here, the water is dispersed so you don't have a clump of water that kills the engine.. you may get a performance decrease, maybe... the 4 stroke blower didn't seem to mind.,

slomo said:

How are you to burn, water?

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Small amounts in the atomized fuel/water mix will burn, but not necessarily well. If a lot of water is in the fuel mix, it's going to lose power. Ideally, the fuel filter(s) do the job needed. Boats often have so much water in the tank that a fuel/water separator is needed and when they're dumped, it's not uncommon to see that it's half full of water. These are the same size as a Pennzoil PZ-3/AC Delco PF25 oil filter.