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New spindle bearings, still howling

#1

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

ZT42. 915178

The deck bearings where howling so after replacing them with new, after tightening them up, they still howl. Especially one, that has resistance when I turn the blade. Remove the spindle, and rotate the bearings with your finger, and they're quiet as a mouse. Nice and smooth.

These are the spindles that has no nut on top. One nut, with two holes that pull the bearings together, with a spacer and hold them in place. (countersinks into the bottom of the spindle) Then has the blade nut.

Bearings are square in their place. Spacers are all in.

I replaced these spindles 4 years ago, almost to the date, with OEM.

Also, I'm thinking about removing the inside seals on these bearings, since I can't remember where I got them, and installing grease zerks. What's a good grease to use?

Thanks in advance.


#2

StarTech

StarTech

The problem might spacers are not long enough for the new bearings. I know the bearings I using on HD52 spindle here requires me to shorten them. Now I don't which bearings the spindles you have uses. All I know is not all bearings are the same thickness.

All while I thinking about this what size are those pin holes?


#3

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

StarTech said:
The problem might spacers are not long enough for the new bearings. I know the bearings I using on HD52 spindle here requires me to shorten them. Now I don't which bearings the spindles you have uses. All I know is not all bearings are the same thickness.

All while I thinking about this what size are those pin holes?
Click to expand...
I checked them with my my calipers. The only thing that could be wrong with the measurements is the 3rd digit right of the decimal It only will read 2 digits. .00 instead of .000. But the first two on the height, ID and OD match.

Something I did notice was after removing that one spindle, the top bearing was pushed out just a hair. Maybe 1/64. Enough to be noticeable. I have to deadblow it back into place with just a tap or two.


#4

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

I'm gonna try some PGN sealed bearings. It says they're rated for 20,000 RPM. I've used PGN in my landlords gravely. The one I use to mower her 5acres with.

PGN website.
Model: 6203-2RS
Clearance: C3
Material: 100% Chrome Steel
Greased / Lubricated: Yes
Bore (Inner) Diameter: 17 mm
Outer Diameter: 40 mm
Width (Thickness): 12 mm
Supported Revolutions per Minute (RPM): 20,000


#5

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

FYI, just to make sure, I'm almost positive I got this right. But maybe not. The dust cover goes on top of the bearing, then the small spacer, then the pulley (that welded to the spindle shaft). Or should the spacer be touching the bearing?


#6

R

Rivets

Have you checked the tensioner pulleys, they will howl like coyotes also.


#7

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

Rivets said:
Have you checked the tensioner pulleys, they will howl like coyotes also.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, those are good. But I don't have any belts connected atm. It's off the mower. I'm just free spinning them.


#8

R

Rivets

If you have a mechanics stethoscope, I found my ears work better that fingers when looking for bad bearings.


#9

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

Rivets said:
If you have a mechanics stethoscope, I found my ears work better that fingers when looking for bad bearings.
Click to expand...

One thing I just thought about was the first nut that screws about 1" inside the spindle housing. That turns also. And may be be rubbing the inside edge of the spindle housing. I'll try the ears tomorrow. I don't have a stethoscope. But I do have enough extensions to work.

Turning the blades and counting the seconds.
Blade one........ 11 seconds til it stops.
Blade two (center) 20 seconds
Blade 3 (the loudest one) 8 seconds


#10

StarTech

StarTech

It could be you are side loading the bearings too much. Try loosening the retainer and test. It tuns out to be side loading problem then the spacer is a hair too short.


#11

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

StarTech said:
It could be you are side loading the bearings too much. Try loosening the retainer and test. It tuns out to be side loading problem then the spacer is a hair too short.
Click to expand...
Lucas or Mystic grease red and tacky.
Don’t just spin spindles and pulleys, grab them and twist up and down for play. Something is making that howling noise. If you have not been greasing them regularly in four years, that will add to the noise.


#12

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

Tiger Small Engine said:
Lucas or Mystic grease red and tacky.
Don’t just spin spindles and pulleys, grab them and twist up and down for play. Something is making that howling noise. If you have not been greasing them regularly in four years, that will add to the noise.
Click to expand...

Red & tacky is all I use.

Note: All the bearing in this deck are brand new. I just installed them yesterday.

I'm thinking I'll loosen them all up and reset them with a smaller impact. I'm using the new 1/2" one. Since Gravely won't provide any torque specs on this bearings. In fact they don't even list the part numbers for the bearings. They just want to sell a whole new assembly.


#13

StarTech

StarTech

You need to get familiar with one of these.
1692816663294.png

I would not recommend anything over 95 ft-lbs.

1/2" Impacts can go well over this easily when you have good air source and very impact. Even my Air Cat at the first hammer is at 90 ft-lbs or more. and I got on the end of 100' 3/8 air hose with a standing pressure of 120 psi. And it drops to around 90 psi when start using the impact.


#14

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

StarTech said:
You need to get familiar with one of these.
View attachment 66431

I would not recommend anything over 95 ft-lbs.

1/2" Impacts can go well over this easily when you have good air source and very impact. Even my Air Cat at the first hammer is at 90 ft-lbs or more. and I got on the end of 100' 3/8 air hose with a standing pressure of 120 psi. And it drops to around 90 psi when start using the impact.
Click to expand...

I've got one and will be using it on the new bearings.


#15

StarTech

StarTech

PT also every so often you need to check its calibration. I had several HF one that failed. Currently I using a digital torque adapter to test my 3/8 and 1/2 torque wrenches. I am working getting away from the HF wrenches as the last three in a row failed calibration tests right out of the box. One HF 1/2 was over 15ft/lbs off. Kinda explain why I was stripping some screw threads.

With torque adapter I was supposed to be able to use a pull bar with it but it just clumsy for me. I just not that nimble.


#16

S

SeniorCitizen

At least one of the 2 bearings need to be a push fit with your fingers to prevent a horrible side thrust on the race and balls .


#17

S

SeniorCitizen

StarTech said:
It could be you are side loading the bearings too much. Try loosening the retainer and test. It tuns out to be side loading problem then the spacer is a hair too short.
Click to expand...
Or too long . That's why 1 bearing should be a light push fit because when both bearings are press fit and you press on the outer race to seat those the inner races are pushed out or pulled in when the blade nut is tightned .


#18

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

SeniorCitizen said:
Or too long . That's why 1 bearing should be a light push fit because when both bearings are press fit and you press on the outer race to seat those the inner races are pushed out or pulled in when the blade nut is tightned .
Click to expand...

This makes me think the spacer isn't square with the center of the bearing. Even with the shaft inserted.

Holy heck. Once the deck is up on the lift, this is normally a 20 minute job. The hardest thing I've ever ran across is getting the old ones out.


#19

StarTech

StarTech

PTmowerMech said:
This makes me think the spacer isn't square with the center of the bearing. Even with the shaft inserted.

Holy heck. Once the deck is up on the lift, this is normally a 20 minute job. The hardest thing I've ever ran across is getting the old ones out.
Click to expand...
That why I asked what size was those pin holes. As I may have to get another pin wrench. My current adjustable pin wrench only has one size pin.

Actually I am surprised you got the spindle apart. The last Ariens Zoom I worked on the hub was rusted solid to the threads. nothing I had would break it apart. I think that is why that Ariens.Gravely only offers complete spindles on these.


#20

S

SeniorCitizen

I suggest measuring the spacer length and the distance between the outer race seats . The ones i've measured the spacer length was around 0.008" longer than the 2 bearing seat distance . Of course when the outer races are pressed until they seat in their space that tends to push the inner races apart by 0.008"although possibly 0.004" for each bearing . Likewise if the spacer is shorter when the blade nut is torqued that tends to pull the 2 inner races together . Neither of those conditions are good .


#21

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

StarTech said:
That why I asked what size was those pin holes. As I may have to get another pin wrench. My current adjustable pin wrench only has one size pin.

Actually I am surprised you got the spindle apart. The last Ariens Zoom I worked on the hub was rusted solid to the threads. nothing I had would break it apart. I think that is why that Ariens.Gravely only offers complete spindles on these.
Click to expand...

That's why I replaced these spindle assembly's back in 2019. Threads were stretched from over tightening the blades. Making it impossible to get the inner nut out.
But being only a few years old, and the customer keeps it under his carport. I may end up just replacing the assembly's if the new bearings don't stop the noise.


#22

G

Gord Baker

PTmowerMech said:
ZT42. 915178

The deck bearings where howling so after replacing them with new, after tightening them up, they still howl. Especially one, that has resistance when I turn the blade. Remove the spindle, and rotate the bearings with your finger, and they're quiet as a mouse. Nice and smooth.

These are the spindles that has no nut on top. One nut, with two holes that pull the bearings together, with a spacer and hold them in place. (countersinks into the bottom of the spindle) Then has the blade nut.

Bearings are square in their place. Spacers are all in.

I replaced these spindles 4 years ago, almost to the date, with OEM.

Also, I'm thinking about removing the inside seals on these bearings, since I can't remember where I got them, and installing grease zerks. What's a good grease to use?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


#23

G

Gord Baker

Perhaps one of the Idler Pulleys has bad bearings.


#24

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

So after installing the new PGN bearings, I noticed something. Once they're in place, the center race is a tad tighter than before installing them.
So I'm guessing that Gravely has Peer make their outer race OD just a .00? smaller than the common size that's available. Everyone spindle housing had to be spotless (where the bearing fits). And even then it was a tight fit. If these come back in next year, I'm going to get a stainless wirewheel and hone them a just enough for the new bearings to only be snug.
Or just install new spindle assembly's.


#25

G

Gord Baker

The bearings are manufactured to be a Press/Interference fit. You don't want the Cup (outer) spinning in the Spindle and wrecking it. Check the bearings in the Idler pulleys.


#26

StarTech

StarTech

Nor do want the inner loose on the spindle shaft. I got Husqvarna HWT625 trimmers that I have to have the spindle shafts knurled because if left loose the bearing will wear out the spindle shaft journals quickly.

Now here is a question what were the original bearing PN? Something might be off spec wise. But as said it should be a good tight fit so they don't spin other than as intended.


#27

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

Gord Baker said:
The bearings are manufactured to be a Press/Interference fit. You don't want the Cup (outer) spinning in the Spindle and wrecking it. Check the bearings in the Idler pulleys.
Click to expand...

All of those are fine. I checked those first. (always)


#28

PTmowerMech

PTmowerMech

StarTech said:
Nor do want the inner loose on the spindle shaft. I got Husqvarna HWT625 trimmers that I have to have the spindle shafts knurled because if left loose the bearing will wear out the spindle shaft journals quickly.

Now here is a question what were the original bearing PN? Something might be off spec wise. But as said it should be a good tight fit so they don't spin other than as intended.
Click to expand...

I didn't even check the ID fit.

Thinking back, the spindle shaft slid right on in, without much resistance at all. But thinking further, I mowed about 1 acre after putting everything back together and it mowed fine.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I'll be checking closer next time I get deck bearings. In fact, it's probably a good idea to measure the spindle shafts. As they may wear .00?.


#29

S

SeniorCitizen

1693160767604.jpeg

The inner races of both bearings and the spacer rotate as an assembly . If both bearings outer race is a press fit and the spacer is NOT the same length as the outer bearings seat distance apart , as i mentioned before the bearings get a tremendous Pre-load . ie , the bearings get their guts either pushed out or pulled in when the blade nut is tightened .

Yes , on a new both bearings feel free and just fine but that shaft with the spacer hasn't been installed .

With a grinder either bearing can be made to be a push fit but only 1 needs to be . Trying to modify the housing ? Well , You'd have more success putting tooth paste back in the tube .

Pictured is what happens in less than hour when the pro repair shop fails to put the spacer in on BIL mower .


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