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All new for me so I could use some advice. I've never had a v-twin or pressurized oil mower motor before. My cub rzt-s with a 22 hp kohler sv 715 motor sometimes puffs a bit of smoke when I start it.
4.5 hours on the motor so far . Mower manual says " put throttle to slow before shutting off " Engine manual says " throttle between full and 1/2 before shutting off "
Tried both , they each give the 'once in a while' puff of smoke when starting the engine while cold . I'm not seeing a pattern yet .
Is this just the motor getting broke in ? Something to worry about ? Any leanings toward slow or 3/4 throttle when shutting the motor off ?

Phil I had a similar situation right after I bought my mower which has a 24 hp Kohler on it. I had cut the engine off and was talking to a neighbor and the engine was on a slight incline downward and apparently the engine was a touch overfull as well. Anyway I fired it up and the blue smoke rolled and sorta startled me in doing so. That was however the only time it has done that as well. Also I do believe it takes some time to seat the rings but just check the oil lever and verify that is correct and keep a eye on the level as well.
I always start my engine at a idle and let it warm a tad before throwing it to it as well. I think you will be ok over all. I know have 13.3 hrs on mine with no problems.

I have a Kohler Command Twin in my circa 2000 craftsman GT. It does the same thing on a cold startup from time to time. It was disconcerting at first, but after 13 years and approximately 600 hours, I guess it's ok. I change the oil and filter every 25 hours and it never burns any.

I would check with the dealer, but I'm sure that you are okay.

Bruce

1894 said:

All new for me so I could use some advice. I've never had a v-twin or pressurized oil mower motor before. My cub rzt-s with a 22 hp kohler sv 715 motor sometimes puffs a bit of smoke when I start it.
4.5 hours on the motor so far . Mower manual says " put throttle to slow before shutting off " Engine manual says " throttle between full and 1/2 before shutting off "
Tried both , they each give the 'once in a while' puff of smoke when starting the engine while cold . I'm not seeing a pattern yet .
Is this just the motor getting broke in ? Something to worry about ? Any leanings toward slow or 3/4 throttle when shutting the motor off ?

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1894,
Does the mower have a separate Choke control and Throttle/Speed control?? Or is it one of the new engines that have a single control and an "auto choke feature"?? Some smoke at startup, when cold due to the choke open, is normal for any small engine. My engine manual(and all mowers I've ever owned) recommend that you reduce the Throttle/Speed to the slowest settin for a minute or two before turning off. That's what I would recommend.

Dice auto chokes are not used on tractor engines!!! Kohlers are know for slightly smoking on start up, I wouldn't worry about it. Always shut a tractor engine off at lowest throttle, as the carbs are set up different than tractor engines.

Rivets said:

Dice auto chokes are not used on tractor engines!!! Kohlers are know for slightly smoking on start up, I wouldn't worry about it. Always shut a tractor engine off at lowest throttle, as the carbs are set up different than tractor engines.

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You really don't like me do you??? In a thread titled "New mower, smoke on start up?", I read "cub rzt-s with a 22 hp kohler sv 715 motor sometimes puffs a bit of smoke when I start it." in post#1(which is the post that I responded to). Just what about "Cub RZT-S" tells you that he is talking about a "tractor engine"????? So, none of the new Cub Cadet RZT's with Kohlers have the new choke(where there is no Choke Control/Cable)??? And if we are in the "correcting each others" mode, just what do you mean in your last sentence where you are saying that a tractor carb being set up differently than tractor engines???? That sentence is pretty confusing from a mechanic that's "worked on them all"? But I guess my advice was just completely out of line, confusing and "full of smoke":0)

P.S.
Like I told user 1894, both of the Briggs & Stratton engines on the two lawn tractors I have owned AND the Kawasaki FX691V engine on my Gravely "smoke slightly on startup"....until I close the choke. Or am I just imagining that???

You are right, I don't. I like and respect posters who know from experience what they are talking about. You post about things that you have never used or experienced. You say you get your information by doing research, but never try the products. You are just like the advertisement about believing every thing you read on the web to be true. When I post, I use hands on experience as my background and research. If you knew what an auto choke system was and how it works, you would not have asked the original poster if his unit had one. When you stick to posting about things that you have actually experience and can give that type of info to others, I may start liking you, but I don't think you will change and I'm sure I'm too old to change. Hope your Gravely never needs to go into the shop, as the mechanic will have you breathing over his shoulder, glad it will never be me.

Had a sign in the old power equipment shop that I worked in years ago, " $25/hour labor rate, $50/hour if you watch, $75/hour if you help"!!!:laughing:
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::smile:

Rivets said:

You are right, I don't. I like and respect posters who know from experience what they are talking about. You post about things that you have never used or experienced. You say you get your information by doing research, but never try the products. You are just like the advertisement about believing every thing you read on the web to be true. When I post, I use hands on experience as my background and research. If you knew what an auto choke system was and how it works, you would not have asked the original poster if his unit had one. When you stick to posting about things that you have actually experience and can give that type of info to others, I may start liking you, but I don't think you will change and I'm sure I'm too old to change. Hope your Gravely never needs to go into the shop, as the mechanic will have you breathing over his shoulder, glad it will never be me.

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Well, the feeling is mutual and I'll share my opinion of your "expert advice". You apparently own a Toro and work at a dealer that sells Kubotas and Toros(good guess right, since you've never actually said that in your posts). When you began criticizing my posts about how much I like my Gravely or how reluctant I was to accept the quality of the new Kubota Kommander, you were pretty specific that the Kubota Kommander(or any Kubota) and/or a Toro ZTR were the only quality ZTR machines on the market and everything else(including my Gravely) was "junk". IMHO, you may have worked on "a handful" of every brand available(let say a few hundred) compared to the hundreds of thousands of units for those brands that have never seen the repair shop at a dealer(and I'll venture to guess you have no "ownersip experience" to share for Gravely's or others). Yet, your obvious bias towards your dealer's brands clouds your ability to really benefit users on these forums that are shopping for a new ZTR. Yes, I've done a lot of research, and I have test driven approximately 8 different brands before I purchased mine, but read ANY of my posts and you will find that I also "heavily" recommend makes such as Toro, Hustler, Cub Cadet, Big Dog, Dixon, Husqvarna and yes.......even Kubota although most of their ZTR's are not affordable except by businesses. I do not just recommend the Gravely because I own one to users seeking a specific grade of ZTR's and have a specific budget. I don't think I can say that about your brand/model recommendations. And I have not claimed any small engine repair knowledge, only "speculated" about the new "built-in" chokes and this post is the first time I have attempted to assist a user about a very common occurrence with all lawn mower engines(puff of smoke at startup). Yet your absolute and complete knowledge indicates that this is only evident in a Kohler engine. Are those the only engines you have ever started cold with the choke on in your mechanic experience???? Did the others not emit a small puff of smoke at startup? Maybe we should allow the OP to respond to me and answer my questions(I did "ask" about what type of choke his cub had) since he is the only one who knows how much he pushed the choke control to start his mower engine(or if it has a choke control lever) as you were'nt there. I welcome and embrace constructive criticism and do not purport to know everything, but your "fragmented sentences" reply to my post was obviously not intended to be constructive and teach me anything(much less the OP). So if you want to avoid giving me any advice to help me learn more(since your knowledge is so comprehensive compared to mine) that's fine, but you can take your personal vendata towards my opinion of the Kubota Komander elsewhere(I wouldn't have that deck-hanging system on my ZTR for that kind of money), which I backed with a line-for-line tech spec comparison to the Gravely ZT HD). I consider this the only direct personal response to you that anyone will see going forward on these forums and I encourage you to do the same. This is not a venue for argument and slander towards other users, rather a forum intended to give advice and learn new things. Let's both try to stick to that.

Well, the 22 HP V-Twin Briggs on my Cub ZTR does the same thing, and it has almost 600 hours on it with very little oil usage, so my guess is that it will keep doing it, and will run for a very long time!
What kind of oil do have in it?

Dice, I will continue to post anytime I feel that you give out wrong information or advice. That is my right and it is you right to do them same to my advice. I stand behind what I post, unless I am corrected my members I respect like, Kenny V., ILengine, EngineMan, Reynoldston, all who base their advise on hands on experience. Yes, I have been wrong at times and have said so. My signature tells all members and guests what they can do with that advise, Bye

Rocketman said:

Well, the 22 HP V-Twin Briggs on my Cub ZTR does the same thing, and it has almost 600 hours on it with very little oil usage, so my guess is that it will keep doing it, and will run for a very long time!
What kind of oil do have in it?

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Well, I'm not gonna tell you that your Briggs doesn't do that(both of mine did too, and never used oil either)....sooooo maybe it's a Cub Cadet RZT series ZTR thing...since, as I understand it only Kohlers are known for slightly smoking on startup:0)

Looks like I managed to :





And start a :

The choke is tied in with the throttle lever , push it up past full into choke. Manual says that is how you start it when " cold " .

Sounds like throttle to low for a bit before turning off the switch works best for most engines ?

An occasional puff of smoke when starting is normal ?

What about starting a cold motor at a lower setting ( 1/2 throttle for example ) when temps are 70 - 80 ?

Thanks all for the input so far .
I just want to make sure I break in this motor correctly and don't develop any bad habits .
My mechanical abilities are along the lines of a rock , if I need to I'll break out the hammers :laughing:

1894 said:

The choke is tied in with the throttle lever , push it up past full into choke. Manual says that is how you start it when " cold " .

Sounds like throttle to low for a bit before turning off the switch works best for most engines ?

An occasional puff of smoke when starting is normal ?

What about starting a cold motor at a lower setting ( 1/2 throttle for example ) when temps are 70 - 80 ?

Thanks all for the input so far .
I just want to make sure I break in this motor correctly and don't develop any bad habits .
My mechanical abilities are along the lines of a rock , if I need to I'll break out the hammers :laughing:

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1894,
I sincerely apologize for the sidebar with user Rivets!!! You didn't "start anything".....the blatant criticism towards me(rather than simple advice geared towards your questions) and other posts prior to that "set me off". Again, I apologize. But thank you for taking the time to answer some questions raised and give some more details!!! The "combination choke/throttle lever' is exactly what I actually meant(rather than "automatic choke"). To my untrained mechanic's eyes that made pushing the throttle past full in essence an automatic choke feature. I had heard about this new approach to engine design but am highly suspicious of it. My question, to a user that understands that design concept, would be "when you push it to choke" where is the "throttle setting at"????? That's why I don't like that concept, because my Commercial Kawasaki engine has a Throttle lever and a separate Choke Lever. My instructions(for when the engine is cold) is to push the Throttle lever to approximately 1/3 to 1/4 and the Choke Lever "all the way". Upon startup, I am instructed to move the Choke Lever to completely "Off". The engine still emits a small "puff of smoke", but stops immediately when I push the Choke Lever to off. That's why I'm suspicious of your "Single Lever" design!!! As far as setting the throttle at a lower setting ( 1/2 throttle for example ) when temps are 70 - 80........in my opinion, the ambient temperature would have to be extremely high to be able to start an engine the very first time without using the choke. I say that because my last lawn tractor had a 24hp Briggs Intek that the choke fell apart inside the carberator:0(.....and no matter how hot it was outdoors(even in July/August) I had to spray some starting fluid/carb cleaner into the carb to start it the first time because the choke lever "didn't do anything". And I would never suggest circumventing the manufacturers instructions. Bottom line, my opinion is that the engine manufacturers that go with the combined choke/throttle design are making a move in the wrong direction. Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong:0)
I believe that you are being admirably cautious to prevent any damage to your new mower, but I doubt seriously if the puff of smoke deal is worth worrying about. And yes, I can comfortably recommend that you reduce the throttle to the slowest setting for a minute or two before shutting off the engine unless someone can explain to me whay my B & S and Kawasaki engine manuals both recommended that. Just do the recommended first break-in oil change and follow the recommended maintenance schedule(in my opinion, never go more than 50 hours between oil changes). Personally, I change the oil filter after breakin and then every other start of season. My Kawa states 100 hours between oil changes and 200 between filter changes(I guess because it's a Commercial engine), but I'll most likely cut both of those in half for my personal preference & aforesaid recommendation. You'll do fine and don't feel stupid because you are not a small engine expert(I'm not either:0)

A lot of the shut off recommendations from the manufacturers are based on preventing afterfire. Briggs, and some of the other brands kill the fuel supply to the entire carb when the key is shut off. The Kohler solenoid only shuts off the high speed jet, and not the idle jet, therefore Kohler recommends shutting off the engine at half to full throttle, to prevent fuel from being pulled through the idle jet, through the cylinder which isn't firing the spark plug due to the key shut off, and into the muffler where the hot metal ignited the unburned fuel.

ILENGINE said:

A lot of the shut off recommendations from the manufacturers are based on preventing afterfire. Briggs, and some of the other brands kill the fuel supply to the entire carb when the key is shut off. The Kohler solenoid only shuts off the high speed jet, and not the idle jet, therefore Kohler recommends shutting off the engine at half to full throttle, to prevent fuel from being pulled through the idle jet, through the cylinder which isn't firing the spark plug due to the key shut off, and into the muffler where the hot metal ignited the unburned fuel.

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ILENGINE,
Thanks for that clarification for the OP(and my edification)....I've never owned a Kohler and had no idea why they would recommend that. However, as I stated to the OP....circumventing the mfg. recommendations are generally not a good practice(they have good reason and knowledge behind their instructions). Can you shed some more light on the advantages/disadvantages of the new "single lever" control for choke & throttle settings???? Like maybe my question regarding when the lever is pushed past full throttle for the choke function, what level of air/gas relative to a "plain old throttle setting" is the carb set to????

I think the advantage for the single lever control is ease of use for the customer. Personally I don't like the single lever controls. I just don't like starting an engine at full throttle, especially with low temperatures. It makes it impossible to do a partial choke at lower engine rpm's, during warm up. I see the single control setup more on consumer grade products then professional.

ILENGINE said:

I think the advantage for the single lever control is ease of use for the customer. Personally I don't like the single lever controls. I just don't like starting an engine at full throttle, especially with low temperatures. It makes it impossible to do a partial choke at lower engine rpm's, during warm up. I see the single control setup more on consumer grade products then professional.

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Thanks....that confirmed my suspicion and I too don't see anything good about a full throttle/choked startup!!!! The things engineers do to appease "lazy" customers that just don't have the energy to use a separate choke and throttle lever to start their lawn mower when they begin mowing each time, yet they can multi-task on their smart phones:0)

1894 said:

All new for me so I could use some advice. I've never had a v-twin or pressurized oil mower motor before. My cub rzt-s with a 22 hp kohler sv 715 motor sometimes puffs a bit of smoke when I start it.
4.5 hours on the motor so far . Mower manual says " put throttle to slow before shutting off " Engine manual says " throttle between full and 1/2 before shutting off "
Tried both , they each give the 'once in a while' puff of smoke when starting the engine while cold . I'm not seeing a pattern yet .
Is this just the motor getting broke in ? Something to worry about ? Any leanings toward slow or 3/4 throttle when shutting the motor off ?

Click to expand...

I can tell you from experience that the Kohler engines do smoke a bit during the break in periods, I've been running the Kohler 20 and 22hp on the Cub Cadet Z Force and I'm getting real close to 700 hrs on the 22hp and it has never givin me any problems and it done the same as yours. Just do what the manual tells you to do and run the oil it says to use and you'll be fine. I think you'll find that most makes of motors will smoke a bit during break in periods, both my Kawasaki motors and my Briggs did the same as the kohler. I throttle between full and 1/2 before shutting off on all my engines.

ILENGINE said:

I think the advantage for the single lever control is ease of use for the customer. Personally I don't like the single lever controls. I just don't like starting an engine at full throttle, especially with low temperatures. It makes it impossible to do a partial choke at lower engine rpm's, during warm up. I see the single control setup more on consumer grade products then professional.

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I'm with you on this one too. My Husky with the Kohler 24 has a separate choke which like just like you. I think is better But with the advantage of tech they will continue to push the bounders I guess on what they can and cannot do. Do they have a remote start yet??? If not it's coming!!

ILENGINE said:

I think the advantage for the single lever control is ease of use for the customer. Personally I don't like the single lever controls. I just don't like starting an engine at full throttle, especially with low temperatures. It makes it impossible to do a partial choke at lower engine rpm's, during warm up. I see the single control setup more on consumer grade products then professional.

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The Turf master is a single lever and choked at full throttle, until you mentioned it I never gave it much thought.

ILENGINE said:

A lot of the shut off recommendations from the manufacturers are based on preventing afterfire. Briggs, and some of the other brands kill the fuel supply to the entire carb when the key is shut off. The Kohler solenoid only shuts off the high speed jet, and not the idle jet, therefore Kohler recommends shutting off the engine at half to full throttle, to prevent fuel from being pulled through the idle jet, through the cylinder which isn't firing the spark plug due to the key shut off, and into the muffler where the hot metal ignited the unburned fuel.

Click to expand...

Ric said:

I can tell you from experience that the Kohler engines do smoke a bit during the break in periods, I've been running the Kohler 20 and 22hp on the Cub Cadet Z Force and I'm getting real close to 700 hrs on the 22hp and it has never givin me any problems and it done the same as yours. Just do what the manual tells you to do and run the oil it says to use and you'll be fine. I think you'll find that most makes of motors will smoke a bit during break in periods, both my Kawasaki motors and my Briggs did the same as the kohler. I throttle between full and 1/2 before shutting off on all my engines.

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Thanks !!!! Glad I asked , I was leaning towards throttle all the way down to stop the motor. Saved me from developing a bad habit there :thumbsup:

1894 said:

Thanks !!!! Glad I asked , I was leaning towards throttle all the way down to stop the motor. Saved me from developing a bad habit there :thumbsup:

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Yeah...and I learned something about Kohler engines too!!!! Sorry for the mis-leading assumption on my part and glad somebody explained the difference for Kohlers!!!!! I would have hated to have given you advice that may have caused problems:0(

My Kohler on the cub cadet said to throttle all the way down

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

this smoke issue is very common with these mowers i took 1 back for that but then i figured out the problem they both did it. starting at full throttle with choke closed forces oil through the guids. i redone my throttle plate went with cub manual cable. start at idle choke closed or close to that and that problem will disapear. it is just exackly what they say not to do. as far as a new or low hour motor is having this issue.

Think he gone, it’s a nine year old thread.