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New John Deere electric zero turn mower

#1



Deleted member 97405

By now, I'm sure you have heard about the battery powered zero turn mower that Deere is about to open up for pre-orders set to begin in the 2024 model production year. I can't share pics yet as Deere hasn't authorized their release. Thoughts?


#2

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

My take is these mower companies need to pin their battery technology down to stay with a standard platform instead of changing battery styles every couple years with no cross compatibility. ie, different batteries require different connections, and then they obsolete the batteries out after a couple years, and then when the battery goes bad the entire mower goes to the landfill.


#3

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I wonder if the battery(s) will have a warranty and if so how long. Or will they be like belts, tires and batteries now?
What will the replacement cost of the battery(s) be? And how long are they expected to last?
Will the battery(s) be chipped or bluetooth to the mower to prevent any aftermarket batteries? You know how JD fights right to repair.
It will be interesting how big green rolls it out. I have people wanting me to work on electric push mowers and chainsaws. I tell them sorry but i don't service them. Unless they got it from a dealer it usually goes in the trash as i don't know of any nondealers who service them. The ones i did look at either had bad batteries or blown control board. I can't get parts so i quit bothering with them.


#4



Deleted member 97405

Hammermechanicman said:
I wonder if the battery(s) will have a warranty and if so how long. Or will they be like belts, tires and batteries now?
What will the replacement cost of the battery(s) be? And how long are they expected to last?
Will the battery(s) be chipped or bluetooth to the mower to prevent any aftermarket batteries? You know how JD fights right to repair.
It will be interesting how big green rolls it out. I have people wanting me to work on electric push mowers and chainsaws. I tell them sorry but i don't service them. Unless they got it from a dealer it usually goes in the trash as i don't know of any nondealers who service them. The ones i did look at either had bad batteries or blown control board. I can't get parts so i quit bothering with them.
Click to expand...
To be clear, JD does not fight right to repair as evidenced in the latest resolution. Rather, they wanted to protect the source code from piracy. A lot of folks got that misconstrued, and there is a ton of misinformation out there. Politicians, lobbyists, and legislators wanted to legislate the issue, but Deere and the farmer board have been able to work out the issue for the best interest of both sides. If politicians had gotten involved, the whole thing would have gone in the toilet for all manufacturers. I have all the official documents, so please don't give in to the internet myth.

As for the battery in the mower, so far, it looks like it will be built into the machine, and you plug a standard 110v extension cord into the back of the machine. We do know the system will turn off the blades at a certain level to allow you to get the machine back to the garage to recharge. Since they aren't in production yet, we don't know how easily the batteries will be to remove. We do know that the batteries are officially rated to be sealed against dust, dirt, and water. It will be interesting to see what the production machine will look like. I wish I could share the pics I have, but I can't....yet.


#5



Deleted member 97405

ILENGINE said:
My take is these mower companies need to pin their battery technology down to stay with a standard platform instead of changing battery styles every couple years with no cross compatibility. ie, different batteries require different connections, and then they obsolete the batteries out after a couple years, and then when the battery goes bad the entire mower goes to the landfill.
Click to expand...
I expect John Deere to be more consistent with their products than Ryobi, Kobalt, etc., but I share your concern as having owned the previously mentioned brands personally.


#6

B

bertsmobile1

Here is my big problem
I assume they will be using a Li battery of some kind
Li batteries do not like to be too hot or too cold and in both cases can spontaneously combust due to the mechanical breakdown of the separation plates in the cold and critical temperature at the other end .
Just today a block of home units caught on fire because one of the residents was recharging an electric scooter which ignited .
Building in the transformer and charge controller into the mower where it id subject to all sorts of mechanical abuse in my mind is a receipe for disaster .
While it might take the normal rough & tumble of the mower bashing and crashing over rough terrain how will it handle 10 hours of extreme vibrations from say a bent & broken blade.

Point in hand , currently there is a Victa 1542 ( rebadged Murray ) in the workshop I last serviced & did major deck repairs to in 2018
There is a big chunk missing from the end of one of the Gator blades ( the reason why I don't like Gators )
Running like this for hell knows how long, has cracked the frame , broken off 2 of the engine mounting bolts and shaken out all 4 of the top engine mounting plate bolts, ripped the muffler to pieces & broken a muffler bolt, cracked th e dip stick tube, cracked the rocker cover, cracked the lower heat shield ( both bolts missing ) , cracked through all of the deck mounts & broken the transmission stabilizer .
I got called in because it was moving very slowly & the owner could not get the new belt to work ( wonder why ) .
Would the electronics survive this ?
and what are the chances of the battery or charger shorting out & setting the mower on fire inside the garage Saturday night while it is recharging then burning down the whole house ?
Is the plug socket on the mower shielded from dew & rain so it can safely be left outside to charge overnight ?
If not I would recommend no one ever buying one because of the potential ( low in most cases ) of setting the house on fire & killing the owner or their family .
And the same applies to Ev's of all kinds and Li powered tools .
FWIW my phones, cameras & battery tools are only ever charged on a steel surface with nothing combustable near by.
Inside the house , on or in the laundry tub & in the shed on the steel welding bench .


#7



Deleted member 97405

bertsmobile1 said:
Here is my big problem
I assume they will be using a Li battery of some kind
Li batteries do not like to be too hot or too cold and in both cases can spontaneously combust due to the mechanical breakdown of the separation plates in the cold and critical temperature at the other end .
Just today a block of home units caught on fire because one of the residents was recharging an electric scooter which ignited .
Building in the transformer and charge controller into the mower where it id subject to all sorts of mechanical abuse in my mind is a receipe for disaster .
While it might take the normal rough & tumble of the mower bashing and crashing over rough terrain how will it handle 10 hours of extreme vibrations from say a bent & broken blade.

Point in hand , currently there is a Victa 1542 ( rebadged Murray ) in the workshop I last serviced & did major deck repairs to in 2018
There is a big chunk missing from the end of one of the Gator blades ( the reason why I don't like Gators )
Running like this for hell knows how long, has cracked the frame , broken off 2 of the engine mounting bolts and shaken out all 4 of the top engine mounting plate bolts, ripped the muffler to pieces & broken a muffler bolt, cracked th e dip stick tube, cracked the rocker cover, cracked the lower heat shield ( both bolts missing ) , cracked through all of the deck mounts & broken the transmission stabilizer .
I got called in because it was moving very slowly & the owner could not get the new belt to work ( wonder why ) .
Would the electronics survive this ?
and what are the chances of the battery or charger shorting out & setting the mower on fire inside the garage Saturday night while it is recharging then burning down the whole house ?
Is the plug socket on the mower shielded from dew & rain so it can safely be left outside to charge overnight ?
If not I would recommend no one ever buying one because of the potential ( low in most cases ) of setting the house on fire & killing the owner or their family .
And the same applies to Ev's of all kinds and Li powered tools .
FWIW my phones, cameras & battery tools are only ever charged on a steel surface with nothing combustable near by.
Inside the house , on or in the laundry tub & in the shed on the steel welding bench .
Click to expand...
I agree. I see this as a major issue as more equipment become powered by Li batteries. I would never own an electric car. If I did, it would be charged outside far enough from the house that I wouldn't have to worry about fire issues. I've seen EV's on fire, and it's scary stuff. Handheld power tools, I'm a little more relaxed about because I don't get them wet or beat them around, but I definitely echo the concern for mowers due to vibration damage, and on the road vehicles from salt corrosion damage. Either way, the machines are hitting the market, and we'll embrace it as best we can...


#8

B

bertsmobile1

One of my builder customers lost his garage & all of his tool because a Li saw being charged overheated & self ignited on his wooden work bench with overhead shelves which also caught fire which then spread to the paints , thinner & solvents .
The exploding bottles woke him up with just enough time to drive the truck out of the garage but not before most of what was on the back also burned .
HE lost all of his hair & badly burned his left hand but he saved the truck & house but not the wifes car ( bad move )
From then on all my battery tools got charged on the welding bench or on the concrete floor .


#9

R

RayMcD

I would not put a battery ZTR in my barn if you want to have it (the barn) very long...

battery ztr on fire at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
duckduckgo.com duckduckgo.com


#10

B

bertsmobile1

RayMcD said:
I would not put a battery ZTR in my barn if you want to have it (the barn) very long...

battery ztr on fire at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
duckduckgo.com duckduckgo.com
Click to expand...
Those fire fighters have obviously not been trained to handle LI battery fires
All you can do is spray WATER on them to try & keep them cool and prevent the fire spreading.
The battery will burn till it is all consumed and nothing on the planet can put it out.
The recommended emergency response is to simply keep water on it
If it is in a critical place then liquid nitrogen is used to smash everything and separate the + & - plates but they are still going to burn but it will happen quicker.

Note the mower just kept reigniting .
The red flames is the steel / paint / seat / tyres drive motors & plastic burning , ignited by the intense heat the battery gives off .
So all the fire fighters can do is keep the water up till the battery has been totally consumed to stop the fire spreading
Also note there was no way for them to get to the battery.
I hope JD at least put a quick release on the seat so it can be tipped up out of the way .
And just a word of warning, every gas given off by a burning Li battery is very toxic .
A lot of them give of HF which is fatal in very small doses and a very painful death as HF attacks your lungs effectivly dissolving them
It also gets into your bones .
Death is the ultimate conclusion and there is no treatment wat so ever so even if you are not seriously burned your life will be drastically shortened .


#11

B

bertsmobile1

It also shows how MTD is going to trash the Dewalt brand in order to extract a higher price for vastly inferiour products.
Remember this was a display model which would have been carefully checked at the factory to have zero manufacturing faults.
Just imagine what the general production models will be like ?
Amazing it did not make the news down here.
It is funny that I can only remember 2 Li fires being reported on the news here
One was the grid battery fire in Melbourne and the other the grid battery fire in California .
Both of those went viral so they had to be reported on.
Just about all of the media down here have been drinking from the Li punch bowl and spruke Li power at every oppertunity .
It will be a case of the cure being worse than the disease
Imagine that happening inside your garage / shed while you & your family are asleep .


#12

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Ladies and gentlemen, introducing the new Zippo electric ZTR mower. Guaranteed to light first time every time and the flame is windproof.


#13



Deleted member 97405

It's official. Just dropped! Model Z370R. Can purchase up to 10 year battery warranty. https://www.deere.com/en/mowers/zero-turn-mowers/z300-series/z370r-ztrak-mower/

1675793664606.png 1675793711617.png 1675793738432.png


#14

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

So deere is basically saying that the mower will go to the scrap yard in 2-5 years.


#15

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

ILENGINE said:
So deere is basically saying that the mower will go to the scrap yard in 2-5 years.
Click to expand...
I wonder what replacing the battery will cost.
Some battery warranties are prorated after a certain amount of time. I wonder what green will do. Hopefully 100% covered.


#16

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Hammermechanicman said:
I wonder what replacing the battery will cost.
Some battery warranties are prorated after a certain amount of time. I wonder what green will do. Hopefully 100% covered.
Click to expand...
I was looking at the 5 year 200 hr warranty for the battery in the posted screenshot. So that would be 40 hr/yr and with battery technology will that battery be available for replacement after it fails. or if it fails under warranty will Deere just buy back the mower or give a credit toward a new mower.. Or will it be like that 2014 ford escape in Florida with the bad battery that is NLA, or would cost more than the vehicle is worth to replace the battery.


#17

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Big green has always been good about parts support so the battery should be available as long as the vendor still makes them. The issue will be the cost. The Stihl AR3000 backpack battery is around $1K. I would assume the mower battery will be in the $2K-4K range. Even best case and say the battery lasts 7 years it is kind of like buying a $6K residential gas mower and telling the customer at 7 years, if not sooner, you will have to replace the engine for something like $2K-4K. I am sure they will sell, especially in california and will be a successful product for big green.


#18

R

RayMcD

simple, the larges pile of Green Junk around.............


#19

7394

7394

I hope to keep my gas burners forever. But I'm an old fart, so that may not be really long. LOL


#20

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

7394 said:
I hope to keep my gas burners forever. But I'm an old fart, so that may not be really long. LOL
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Obviously I am an internal combustion engine guy, don’t like batteries except in cell phones and hand tools. Everything is a big push for electric vehicles, mowers etc. now. Watch the TV commercials and internet ads. Anyway, here is an example of cost. A Greenworks (commercial zero turn) is $15,000 grand, the batteries cost $8,000 grand to replace and supposedly last 5 years (don’t believe they will last that long). You can buy a good mid grade zero turn for $8,000 grand. Batteries will never work for many things, just give it time.


#21

7394

7394

I agree..


#22



Deleted member 97405

This machine is in no way being marketed as a 20 year machine. I would put it right there with Lowes/Home Depot models. 2-5, maybe 7-10 years, depending on how its maintained. Keep in mind, there are areas that are not allowing gas mowers to be sold in the near future, so we need to remain optimistic about this. Otherwise, we'll get left in dinosaur land, and it will only hinder our ability to work on and sell these machines in these areas, while other manufacturers take over. There is still service money to be made here, but it requires an open mindset.
I have many of the same questions/concerns as you all, but I am also an optimist. No way will this machine make our gas mowers obsolete, so I don't see them as a threat. Kinda like gas vehicles will never go away. The industry has a long ways to go in regards to battery safety/longevity. I also wouldn't put it past insurance companies to charge a higher rate for home insurance if the owner has all battery operated machinery. I would consider that much higher risk!
All that being said, I have no intentions of selling my old 1964 110 that my great grandfather bought brand new. It's my main mowing machine and will last my lifetime. I do have a GT225 and a Z950M that helps take some work load off the 110, but I use the 110 mostly because it just fits my style better. My yard is only 3/4 acre, but I like my mowing toys! I use the Z950M when I need to get the yard done in a blast. The GT225 is just for fun. It was in too good of shape to pass up.
I'm only 42, but I was raised with an older generation mindset. However, I've also learned to embrace new tech with curiosity and optimism.
We shall see what happens once we actually get our hands on one of these new machines.
Right now, it's online pre-order only.


#23

7394

7394

Will1988 said:
Right now, it's online pre-order only.
Click to expand...
That's so you don't get to look up close at it..


#24



Deleted member 97405

7394 said:
That's so you don't get to look up close at it..
Click to expand...
lol


#25

7394

7394

Yep.


#26

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

As much fun we old farts get from hating on the newfangled electric mowers given time the real players like JD, Scag, Ferris, Toro etc. Will continue to improve and evolve their products. Remember the first battery drills as compared to today's? As energy storage technology improves so will the products ability. It will probably be a long time till an electric mower could replace all gas powered mowers but the applications they are suited for will grow every year. Being the first year of production i would not buy the new JD mower but give them a year or two and it will probably be a great mower in its niche market. I work on lots of mowers and the green ones are some of the best built in their class. I work on a lot of 20+ year old JD mowers. Of course JD engineers seem to have a thing for putting bolts where you can't get to them. I think i will keep all my gas powered dinosaurs a little ittle longer but i do love my battery powered tools.


#27

B

bertsmobile1

It is not the mowers that are the problem is it the power source
most of the cobalt comes from the DRC where around 4,000 people die in mining accidents each year and the underground mining is done principally by children as young as 8 .
Then there is the deforestation by Glencore , an Aussie company the specializes in open cut mining and because there are not pollution laws in the DRC they have already killed several rivers and hundreds if not thousands of villagers who live along them.
After that there is the Lithium .
What is mined in Australia has some ( very weak ) environmental safe guards and repartiation regulations but the major mining entity usually sells the mine when there is only a few years of production left to a close down specialist why has no assets so when the mine gate shuts for the las time there is no money to repatriate the land & clean up the pollution .
However in Chile & Argentina their deposits are aqueous and the resulting evaporation basins again posion vast amounts of land & kill vast numbers of wildlife , birds in particular and they are cutting down forests as fast as they can to make more evaporation basins .
Then there is the secondary pollution from the concentration & conversion of the salts .
We in the west are murdering citizens of third world countries so we can pretend to be cleaning up the environmental mess that we ( mostly ) created .

When the DRC was founded the first president was going to nationalize the Cobalt mines and use the funds the develope the country & recopense the villages who were displaced by the mining.
He was assinated in his first week and a Belgian puppet president took over so Putin is not alone nor unique .

The third bit component is graphite
The bulk of the worlds graphite is mined in China
China has the worst reputation for mining deaths, injury & subsequent pollution of any country on the planet but we will never know the truth .
However right now several graphite mines in Scandanavia are reopening even although they were all closed because they were killing the surrounding lakes & rivers and the clean up from mining that was done 10 years ago has not yet been completed .

Now on top of all of this, the known world reserves of cobalt are predicted to be totally consumed by 2040 at current rates of consumption

So it is a real case of the cure being worse than the disease .
However if you accept that over population of people is a causal factor of global warming then this will be a good thing because millions of people will die just so we in the west can virtue signal with EV's & Emowers .
The unfortunate bit is nearly all of those deaths will be in third world countries where the people were not causing atmospheric pollution.


#28

7394

7394

Some EV car facts I just read.
In a Tesla, if in a bad wreck, the "Jaws of life" can NOT be used to get the roof off, Tesla & maybe others, run hi-powered Electric cables thru the pillars..
2) Can't change your own flat tire & AAA won't do it either. Must be hauled to Tesla.

3) Firefighters need special chemicals & training to put out fires.. (we knew that tho)..


#29

B

bertsmobile1

3) Firefighters need special chemicals & training to put out fires.. (we knew that tho)..
Click to expand...
No the vehicle fire can be put out as was shown in the DeWalt fire but the battery fire can not
All you can do is wait it out till all of the chemicals have been consumed
So you just keep on spraying the rest of the mower / car / house to prevent the fire spreading from as far away as possible .
What fire fighter need is heavy chemical gas masks and full positive pressure contamination suits .
The fire fighters we saw at the DeWalt fire probably now have less than 5 to 10 years before the effect of those fumes kill them and it is not a pretty death


#30

7394

7394

bertsmobile1 said:
The fire fighters we saw at the DeWalt fire probably now have less than 5 to 10 years before the effect of those fumes kill them and it is not a pretty death
Click to expand...
That's not a pleasant thought. Bummer.


#31

B

bertsmobile1

No it is not
The battery was giving off fuming HF acid that reacts with the air to cause the white smoke, called funny enough "acid reflux "
They were breathing in a lot of it .
The HF will cause their bones to decalcify
There is no cure nor treatment for it just palleative care
Burning batteries also give off a lot of other gasses and every one has fatal endpoints if enough is breathed in
And we are doing this to save the planet, really ?
Li batteries are perfect for small devices but the wrong technology for anything bigger than an e-scooter
Every car maker has had an EV sitting in the wings , just waiting for a safe battery with enough capacity to drive them.
There is a mob down here that has been doing E-conversions for decades using Pb batteries but they suffer from limited range.
Perfect for doing local deliveries into big cities from a central warehouse as is done in a lot of EU cities .
Musk has forced everyones hand to bring on their E-models for fear of loosing market share so they just had to adopt Li batteries although none wanted to but the media fell in love with Musk so he got massive amount of media attention
Large Li batteries are just plain stupid but as Frank Zappa prophesied "We are dumb all over & maybe even a little ugly on the side "
Every one now days seems to be suffering from the "superman complex".
No matter how stupid we act & how irresponsibe we act superman will pop up & save us .
And right now the media see Must in a blue body suit with his red undies on the outside
In a decade he will be portrayed wearing a red body suit with a forked tail .
And even more stupidly people are flocking to bolt one of these time bombs to the wall of their houses to save money on electricity bills .
Humans are the most stupid species on the planet , but the end of human dominance is getting closer at an increasing rate .
We will either choke to death on our own pollution or starve to death because we have decimated the insect population & we continue to erradicate every species that we think is ugly , scarey or annoying
Over 1/2 of the plants on the planet are fertilized by insects other than honey bees .
Several attempts at revegitation have failed because the insects that are needed to maintain it are extinct .


#32

Smithsonite

Smithsonite

The media has turned their backs on Musk now, because he uttered words that MIGHT sound a little on the Conservative side. And that's the WRONG side for corporate media. The meltdown has been highly entertaining, though.

After hearing about what J/D has done to farmers spending a half-million dollars or more on their combines, I've swore off J/D for good. If I spend that much money on a machine, you had damned well better give me the service info I need to keep my livelihood!


#33

G

Gord Baker

Will1988 said:
By now, I'm sure you have heard about the battery powered zero turn mower that Deere is about to open up for pre-orders set to begin in the 2024 model production year. I can't share pics yet as Deere hasn't authorized their release. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Never buy the first Production Year of Anything. Especially battery powered. I have a box full of B&D and Makita battery powered tools you can have. Drills always good for 1-1/2 holes!


#34

N

nc10

bertsmobile1 said:
Here is my big problem
I assume they will be using a Li battery of some kind
Li batteries do not like to be too hot or too cold and in both cases can spontaneously combust due to the mechanical breakdown of the separation plates in the cold and critical temperature at the other end .
Click to expand...

Definitely Li battery, but don't see what Li technology they are using listed anywhere. While there is a need/desire for maximum energy density in cars, I don't see that in a mower. I expect JD will use LFP battery technology (or something like that) where there isn't much of a fire or explosion risk, and you can keep the battery at full charge all the time without losing capacity, though your battery size/weight will go up. LFP is cheaper also.

Looks like JD is expecting owners to keep the mower plugged in when not in use (not exactly sure what they will recommend). Just guessing, but this could be to provide ongoing power/heat in cold weather to maintain battery temp above some minimum. Also allows them to avoid using 220V charging, there won't be as much need to recharge a mower in an hour or two if you tell owners to keep it plugged in all the time. But when your battery gets low, I expect you'll need to several hours to get back to mowing (700W charging system, 3.5 kw battery). I expect leaving your mower just sitting without power over a winter will be a problem.

Definitely some tradeoffs vs long, well established combustion engines for mowers and equipment, certainly price, probably low temp operation, battery life and replacement cost vs engine life likely a concern for early models, but some advantages also. The need to reduce GHG emissions is almost certainly real, will be forced to evolve and implement solutions over the next decade or two. I'm pretty hopeful battery tech, power generation continues to improve and will be more than competitive.


#35



Deleted member 97405

Gord Baker said:
Never buy the first Production Year of Anything. Especially battery powered. I have a box full of B&D and Makita battery powered tools you can have. Drills always good for 1-1/2 I ha
Click to expand...


#36

G

Gord Baker

Will1988 said:
It's official. Just dropped! Model Z370R. Can purchase up to 10 year battery warranty. https://www.deere.com/en/mowers/zero-turn-mowers/z300-series/z370r-ztrak-mower/

View attachment 63397 View attachment 63398 View attachment 63399
Click to expand...
NEVER buy the first production year of anything. Who mows lawn at 7mph? Yup, these will mow 1/2 of what you would expect. Just like battery powered drills.


#37

Smithsonite

Smithsonite

Geesh ... $6,400 and it looks like a homeowner z-turn sold at Home Depot. NO THANKS!!


#38

H

hollydolly

Give 5 years to work all the kinks out. I will stick with gas.


#39

H

hollydolly

Smithsonite said:
Geesh ... $6,400 and it looks like a homeowner z-turn sold at Home Depot. NO THANKS!!
Click to expand...
And that is a 42 inch for 6,400.00 Sheesh.


#40



Deleted member 97405

Gord Baker said:
Never buy the first Production Year of Anything. Especially battery powered. I have a box full of B&D and Makita battery powered tools you can have. Drills always good for 1-1/2 holes!
Click to expand...
I agree with your sentiment, especially with the brands you've mentioned, but I've also owned a 1988 Chevy K1500 (first year) for 24 years and I'm sure the folks with those 1963 110's are sure hating life these days! Not ragging on anyone here, I can only speak for myself, but I prefer to keep an openminded, curious mindset, especially when it comes to John Deere, although I did raise a hairy eyebrow when the SST16 and SST18's were introduced! I was still a technician at the time. Those drivetrains were some kind of overly convoluted, but the mice were happy because they loved the taste of the rubber diaphragms.
So glad those SpinSteers morphed into the Z300 series zero turn mowers we have today. And that lineup has been totally redesigned for 2023, including Kawasaki engines. Gone are the crappy earlier versions and junky B&S engines. I now feel the 2023 lineup has some reliability.
Back to the newly introduced battery mower, I am critical of the pin instead of a traditional key in the start button. That pin isn't going to sit right in my pocket on my keyring of JD keys. Hopefully that will get changed.
But the main reason I'm optimistic is because it's John Deere. Historically, Deere has taken what is on the market and made it better. All the way back in 1837, John Deere perfected the plow by taking what was there and perfecting it. Then, they did the same thing in tractors. And again, in 1963, they built a lawn tractor that has stood the test of time. Now, in the battery era, I expect the same. The first year, just like the 1963 110, may need some tweaks, but I expect dominance and perfection from Deere. If history is any indicator, I'd say we'll be fine!
I will keep my all original 1964 110 (great grandpap bought it new), Z950M(25th anniversary edition), and GT225(2002). I have the consecutive 110 to my grandpaps that doesnt have an engine, so I may 3D print an engine shell over an electric drive motor only if I can do it without cutting up the 110 chassis. I also have plans to convert an old 110 deck shell to electric blade motors for the helluvit, and if I ever could build an autosteer into it..... I believe lawn tractor autosteer is the next thing since Deere already has that in the smaller self-docking E5 mower, and they are hard-focused on it in the Ag industry, with some capability now on some Gators. Only a matter of time until it trickles down into the residential/commercial side of products. What can I say, I love the blend of new and old. I'm only 42, born and raised with an older generation mindset mixed with curiosity of youth and new tech.


#41

Smithsonite

Smithsonite

The GMT-400 series trucks are the last, best built, solid trucks GM ever produced. I made the mistake of selling my '94 for a brand new '07 GMT-900 series truck off the lot. Was a mistake that was! Brakes pulsated on the TEST DRIVE - 40 miles on the clock. Door trim fell off the 1st week. I couldn't even get 40k out of the lower ball joints. Got 50k out of the upper ball joints, one strut, front differentials seals, and the engine started to burn oil around then. 4x4 switch began to fail, interior had more squeaks and rattles than my '94 K1500 did with 266,000 on the clock, vents made noise with the A/C or heat on high fan, clunk in the driveline at every upshift (all this started at 2k miles). Then the hub bearings got noisy at 60k, and at 97k I was changing the rear diff oil for the 2nd time when I noticed the tips of all the spider gear teeth in the magnet. Judging by the excessive backlash, that must've happened around 50k miles as well. Then 6k miles later at 103k, 3rd and 4th gear disappeared like a light switch. Instant neutral! Fluid just as bright red as the day I flushed it through at 40k miles. Now the engine's oil pressure is slowly dropping at 126k. Has been for years.

I've got a few years on ya, but it's been proven to me time, and time again that older stuff is just built better. That's why we still drive an '86 Grand Marquis with 294k miles on it (ORIGINAL driveline front to back, along with the original electric fuel pump in the tank!), and a '93 Volvo 940 we use as a winter beater. 240k on that. Reliable as a stone ax.


#42

T

toolboxhero

Hammermechanicman said:
I wonder if the battery(s) will have a warranty and if so how long. Or will they be like belts, tires and batteries now?
What will the replacement cost of the battery(s) be? And how long are they expected to last?
Will the battery(s) be chipped or bluetooth to the mower to prevent any aftermarket batteries? You know how JD fights right to repair.
It will be interesting how big green rolls it out. I have people wanting me to work on electric push mowers and chainsaws. I tell them sorry but i don't service them. Unless they got it from a dealer it usually goes in the trash as i don't know of any nondealers who service them. The ones i did look at either had bad batteries or blown control board. I can't get parts so i quit bothering with them.
Click to expand...
Toro has parts available for their 60 Volt MAX battery line on Toro.com. Snowblowers and mowers have all the individual parts available - hand/stick tools have replacements for the consumable parts that wear out.


#43

mechanizm

mechanizm

Will1988 said:
By now, I'm sure you have heard about the battery powered zero turn mower that Deere is about to open up for pre-orders set to begin in the 2024 model production year. I can't share pics yet as Deere hasn't authorized their release. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Anyone who buys an EV or an ELT is a GD fool. In many areas of the country it costs about the same to charge your EV as it does to fill-up a gas car... and then there's THE BATTERY issues. I would never keep one of these potential firebombs in my garage especially when charging. Home Desperate has some of these Electric lawn tractors on display and they aren't cheap. Our lovely government has increased the cost of gasoline to boost sales of pos, EV's so we're now paying more for EVERYTHING because people are falling for this EV scam. If people start dumping their gas powered mowers for these things, there will be a lot of good deals to be had on the tried and true gasoline engine lawn tractors.


#44

mechanizm

mechanizm

bertsmobile1 said:
Li batteries are perfect for small devices but the wrong technology for anything bigger than an e-scooter
Click to expand...
well said....


#45

mechanizm

mechanizm

Will1988 said:
Keep in mind, there are areas that are not allowing gas mowers to be sold in the near future, so we need to remain optimistic about this. Otherwise, we'll get left in dinosaur land, and it will only hinder our ability to work on and sell these machines in these areas,
Click to expand...
this is the attitude that will screw us all over. NO, you have to fight these electric everything SCAMS.


#46

mechanizm

mechanizm

nc10 said:
Definitely Li battery, but don't see what Li technology they are using listed anywhere. While there is a need/desire for maximum energy density in cars, I don't see that in a mower. I expect JD will use LFP battery technology (or something like that) where there isn't much of a fire or explosion risk, and you can keep the battery at full charge all the time without losing capacity, though your battery size/weight will go up. LFP is cheaper also.

Looks like JD is expecting owners to keep the mower plugged in when not in use (not exactly sure what they will recommend). Just guessing, but this could be to provide ongoing power/heat in cold weather to maintain battery temp above some minimum. Also allows them to avoid using 220V charging, there won't be as much need to recharge a mower in an hour or two if you tell owners to keep it plugged in all the time. But when your battery gets low, I expect you'll need to several hours to get back to mowing (700W charging system, 3.5 kw battery). I expect leaving your mower just sitting without power over a winter will be a problem.

Definitely some tradeoffs vs long, well established combustion engines for mowers and equipment, certainly price, probably low temp operation, battery life and replacement cost vs engine life likely a concern for early models, but some advantages also. The need to reduce GHG emissions is almost certainly real, will be forced to evolve and implement solutions over the next decade or two. I'm pretty hopeful battery tech, power generation continues to improve and will be more than competitive.
Click to expand...
and how much will it cost to keep your electric pos plugged-in all year. those batteries have to drain to keep the cells from freezing. DON'T BUY THESE P'SOS!


#47

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

Will1988 said:
It's official. Just dropped! Model Z370R. Can purchase up to 10 year battery warranty. https://www.deere.com/en/mowers/zero-turn-mowers/z300-series/z370r-ztrak-mower/

View attachment 63397 View attachment 63398 View attachment 63399
Click to expand...


#48

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

Will1988 said:
It's official. Just dropped! Model Z370R. Can purchase up to 10 year battery warranty. https://www.deere.com/en/mowers/zero-turn-mowers/z300-series/z370r-ztrak-mower/































































 With the crappy seats JD likes to put on their mowers, why not just make it remote-controlled?
Click to expand...


#49



Deleted member 97405

mechanizm said:
this is the attitude that will screw us all over. NO, you have to fight these electric everything SCAMS.
Click to expand...
I will respectfully disagree with your sentiment all day. I am as conservative and GOP red as they come, but I also know that this same conversation was had when the horse was replaced by the gasoline engine. My great grandfather was one of them, and I remember him telling the stories when I was a kid. Our dealership also had the same conversation back in 1963 when Deere first introduced the 110. They never ordered one and never sold one. Guess what's in our showroom today? A 1963 110!!
I will never give up my 1964 110, Z950M or GT225, but battery powered lawn mowers are not the scam. They are tools, but just a little bigger than a drill, etc. Battery powered, self driving cars are the scam. Especially in a few years after exposure to road salt in winter or coastal salt air, and corrosion sets in. I've seen people at the chargers wasting hours just to charge their EV pos to get another 100 miles down the road, all while watching others gas and go. I've seen them come up to the cashiers and yell about how long it takes to charge a car on a roadtrip. You can't even use jaws of life on a Tesla because of where the power cables run or change a flat tire on them. That is the scam.
If we're going to label battery mowers a scam, we better throw out every battery operated drill or tool we own and go back to all plug-in tools. We also better give up our cell phone and pull out the old rotary. Trust me, I'd go back to analog days in a heartbeat if I could as well. I'd much prefer my vinyl records and 8 tracks and cassettes over an MP3 player, and tube radios had better sound than any digital equalizer will ever produce. My house is full of old tech.
The concern about battery fires is valid, but think about how many things we already own that have batteries with no widespread issues. Heck, my cell phone in my pocket is Li powered, and it's right against my leg in my pocket.
I'm not here to cause a fight, but I will not be closed-minded on this topic with regards to lawn mowers.
I also will not discuss this topic further as the feelings and sentiments are deep on either side, and we're all going to have to agree to disagree on different aspects of this topic.
Good day and peace, brother.


#50

N

nc10

mechanizm said:
and how much will it cost to keep your electric pos plugged-in all year. those batteries have to drain to keep the cells from freezing. DON'T BUY THESE P'SOS!
Click to expand...

Want to be clear, I'm just guessing JD will recommend you leave it plugged in to maintain the charge (and I speculate) not get too cold. Also thinking about how Li battery capacity is affected by cold weather. I'd expect somewhat noticeable power losses in cold weather, not much in the summer. Speculating on what the worst case would be, if it were 15% / day in cold weather, that would be ~ 0.5 kwhr/day for 200 days/year. (Completely trying to "ballpark" the magnitude of the problem). 200 X 0.5 = 100 kwh/year. So $10-$30/year depending on your utility rates. This is just speculation, will be interesting to see real world data.


#51

N

nc10

Will1988 said:
Battery powered, self driving cars are the scam.
Click to expand...
Battery power cars are pricey, long trips are a concern, though less for Tesla owners. Maint/Quality of all the new ev's is a concern. Charging costs are a concern, but home charging can be really cheap (<< half of ICE) depending on your utility. EV's are definitely not a scam, though. Full self driving seems to be, but, unfortunately, scammy add-ons and claims are far from exclusive to EV's.

Its not clear to me that fire risks are higher for EV's vs ICE vehicles.


#52

M

Mad_mat222

You can rag on Tesla but they are the fastest production car. They eat lambos and Ferraris. Pretty incredible when you think about how crappy makita cordless stuff was back in the day. And from a safety point of view, the Tesla is pretty safe.

www.nytimes.com

Father Deliberately Drove Car Off Cliff, Authorities Say After Dramatic Rescue

Dharmesh A. Patel was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and child abuse after his Tesla careened off a treacherous cliff in Northern California with him, his wife and two children inside, the authorities said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

And before ragging on a machine maybe try it first. I tried the Ego machine and I was quite impressed(I can lift it up it’s so light) Is it at the same level as my hustler raptor for commercial work? No. But for the home owner? I think so.

I try to use makita cordless garden tools where possible. I love my hedger(3years so far). I will never use a petrol powered hedger again.
I recently purchased the dux powerhead kit and pretty happy with it. It won’t replace my petrol string trimmer but I think the 40v dedicated trimmer might.

Point being there is plenty of battery powered stuff out there that is better than ICE equipment.

I’m sure there were people writing off the first T model ford and look we’re development is now.
Battery machines won’t be at commercial levels for some time I think though.


#53

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

🍿👀


#54

B

bertsmobile1

Definitely some tradeoffs vs long, well established combustion engines for mowers and equipment, certainly price, probably low temp operation, battery life and replacement cost vs engine life likely a concern for early models, but some advantages also. The need to reduce GHG emissions is almost certainly real, will be forced to evolve and implement solutions over the next decade or two. I'm pretty hopeful battery tech, power generation continues to improve and will be more than competitive.
Click to expand...
yes we need to do some thing about GHG emissions
and the best thing by far is to put a guaranteed minimum 10 year life span on all computer durable goods .
Couple that with a full cash refund if the product does not last more than 10 years .
This will work, E-mowers will do nothing .
Putting a pollution tax on every one who generates atmospheric pollution and use that money for reforestation & electric very fast Train to replace those 200,000 jets that fly across the planet every day that dump over 100 gallons of unburned fuel directly into the air every time they take off , that will make a difference , E -mowers will not
Note aircraft pollution only counts the CO2 in the burned fuel & ignores the unburned fuel which is around 20 times stronger than CO2 .
These sorts of useless regulations are akin to trying to clean up a flood using a thimble .
a 100,000,000 thimbles will look like you are doing something but in reality does nothing.
Add to that Li batteries need to be used for a time span between 30 & 70 years before the CO2 generated in their production (ignores transportation ) is naturally abated .
A loose loose situation for every one apart from the miners & battery makers .


#55

B

bertsmobile1

Mad_mat222 said:
You can rag on Tesla but they are the fastest production car. They eat lambos and Ferraris. Pretty incredible when you think about how crappy makita cordless stuff was back in the day. And from a safety point of view, the Tesla is pretty safe.

www.nytimes.com

Father Deliberately Drove Car Off Cliff, Authorities Say After Dramatic Rescue

Dharmesh A. Patel was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and child abuse after his Tesla careened off a treacherous cliff in Northern California with him, his wife and two children inside, the authorities said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

And before ragging on a machine maybe try it first. I tried the Ego machine and I was quite impressed(I can lift it up it’s so light) Is it at the same level as my hustler raptor for commercial work? No. But for the home owner? I think so.

I try to use makita cordless garden tools where possible. I love my hedger(3years so far). I will never use a petrol powered hedger again.
I recently purchased the dux powerhead kit and pretty happy with it. It won’t replace my petrol string trimmer but I think the 40v dedicated trimmer might.

Point being there is plenty of battery powered stuff out there that is better than ICE equipment.

I’m sure there were people writing off the first T model ford and look we’re development is now.
Battery machines won’t be at commercial levels for some time I think though.
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with battery power.
It has a lot going for it, convienance being a big one .
But Li is the wrong technology for batteries , just the same as fast breeder reactors were the wrong type of atomic power stations .
Selling them as the answer to CO2 pollution when all the time they make CO2 pollution worse is decietful at the best and a con at the worst .
Musk is not an environmentialist in any way shape or form . He is in it for the money & the money alone .
He saw a marketing oppertunity and jumped in feet first .
Now the fact that he was willing to spend a lot in research is good & the very high effiency of the Tesla engines is astounding.
Tesla has pushed electric motors ahead decades which is good .
The cars will be seen as a disaster over time , as will be all of the Li powered cars .

As for making a fast car , not much use if there is nowhere you can drive them at those speeds apart from a race track


#56

N

nc10

bertsmobile1 said:
Selling them as the answer to CO2 pollution when all the time they make CO2 pollution worse is decietful at the best and a con at the worst .
Click to expand...
Yeah, even the most optimistic benefits of battery (or hydrogen, etc) powered vehicles and equipment isn't enough on its own. Many other important sources of ghg emisisons to also address. Its certainly possible to screw up the battery supply chain and electrical grid development and not get the benefits. But the "cradle to grave" calculations say EV's can be and should be an effective route to greatly reducing the CO2 emissions from transportation.


#57

mechanizm

mechanizm

Will1988 said:
If we're going to label battery mowers a scam, we better throw out every battery operated drill or tool we own and go back to all plug-in tools.
Click to expand...
no, it's totally different. what do you think is going to happen to the price of electricity when every starts recharging their LARGE electric SUVs and lawn tractors? The infrastructure for going electric isn't there! furthermore, oil is NOT a fossil fuel, it's made by the Earth deep in the mantle and is almost as plentiful as water. lastly, there is no "global warming" emergency. All of Al Gore's fear mongering has been proven FALSE. Glacier National Park had a sign telling visitors that The Glacier would be melted by now. It's fine... The mining of lithium is an environmental disaster and how much pollution is caused by building new electric cars and lawn tractors from scratch? EV is a SCAM and everyone is falling for it just like "defunding the post office", "The Hole in the Ozone" and most recently, the Chinese balloon of death. give me a break. SHOOT YOUR TV BRAINWASH BOX!


#58

mechanizm

mechanizm

bertsmobile1 said:
Musk is not an environmentialist in any way shape or form . He is in it for the money & the money alone .
Click to expand...
absolutely.... notice that all of the "greenies" are flying in private jets and have multiple mansions in several countries. The new rules will be for us and not them. like Schwab says: "you will own nothing and you will be happy". WAKE UP, PEOPLE!


#59

mechanizm

mechanizm

BFD... Just like Tesla, these "green" mowers are being subsidized with tax dollars, otherwise they'd never make it to market. only a fool would buy one. I have three gasoline mowers including a Dixie Chopper that I got all for FREE. What the environmental Commies are trying to do is to get enough FOOLS to buy these electric P'sos, then they'll BAN our gas machines and raise the price of electricity. Remember the "defund the post office" scam? Now high shipping is destroying internet purchases and our country is over 30,000,000,000,000 in debt. Do you think the savings from defunding the post office went to paying down the debt? NO, scumbag politicians just blew it on endless wars and on their financial supporters. it's called MONEY LAUNDERING. Everything that your TV says is BS.


#60

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

🍿🤔🍿


#61

N

nc10

mechanizm said:
NO, that's a scam like, The Hole in The Ozone. Everything that POS, Al Gore said 15 years ago has now been proven WRONG, everything yet somehow people still believe the BS. They change it from "global warming" to "climate change" because this way they'll always be right. FIGURE IT OUT! The EV con is part of The New World Order evil. Here's Scotty telling the truth about these EV P'sos.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you were serious or not, but assuming yes...

Scientists detected a "hole" in the ozone layer in the 80's. Not a scam. Relatively quick (for multinational) International agreements (Montreal protocol) were put in place, monitored, and are being updated to limit the use and emissions of ozone depleting chemicals. As a result, the ozone layer is improving, though it will take a few more decades to recover. China has cheated but still, the Montreal Protocol has been a true international success story. Not sure it could have been done today.

Other efforts have worked, emission reg's on cars and other sources have greatly reduced SOx, NOx, other emissions, you dont' hear much about acid rain any more because the reg's have been working. Ex China, air quality in cities has improved over the last few decades, orders of magnitude less lead going to the environment, water quality in rivers and lakes has improved, despite the increase in population and industrial activity.

Misleading video. Ignores home charging. But 95% of my charging is at home, at night. I'm paying $0.06/kwhr to charge an EV. Most electrical utilities offer low rates or off peak rates for vehicle charging, when electrical generation costs are lowest. Definitely need to upgrade the grid going forward, electricity will probablyl go up, like almost everthing else. Public fast charging stations are currently too few, using those results in fuel costs comparable to gas. There are many level 2 chargers in parks, hotels, restaurants, malls, etc that are free.


#62

mechanizm

mechanizm

nc10 said:
Scientists detected a "hole" in the ozone layer in the 80's. Not a scam.
Click to expand...
give me a break. and just who were these "scientists". notice that they didn't give us any names. my "scientists" say that The Hole in The Ozone is BS. SHOOT YOUR TV.


#63

N

nc10

mechanizm said:
give me a break. and just who were these "scientists". notice that they didn't give us any names. my "scientists
Click to expand...
www.nobelprize.org

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1995

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1995 was awarded jointly to Paul J. Crutzen, Mario J. Molina and F. Sherwood Rowland "for their work in atmospheric chemistry, particularly concerning the formation and decomposition of ozone"
www.nobelprize.org www.nobelprize.org

And your "scientists" are?


#64

mechanizm

mechanizm

nc10 said:
www.nobelprize.org

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1995

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1995 was awarded jointly to Paul J. Crutzen, Mario J. Molina and F. Sherwood Rowland "for their work in atmospheric chemistry, particularly concerning the formation and decomposition of ozone"
www.nobelprize.org www.nobelprize.org

And your "scientists" are?
Click to expand...
Yeah and Carl Sagan told us that if Saddam lit the oil wells on fire the world would end.
The Nobel Prize is a scam. Obama got one and then went on a bombing campaign in The Mid-East.
www.nobelprize.org

The Nobel Peace Prize 2009

The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 was awarded to Barack H. Obama "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"
www.nobelprize.org www.nobelprize.org
Here's your EV truck getting saved by diesel trucks.

https://www.facebook.com/1320Videos/photos/a.438333882111/10161079116372112

Attachments





#65

M

Mad_mat222

I can’t believe some of you guys aren’t trusting politicians and what they are saying, what is the world coming too.

This thread started off about the JD EV mower and seems to have drifted into political argument. Perhaps the thread could stay on topic about the merits/ pit falls of this machine.


#66

mechanizm

mechanizm

Mad_mat222 said:
This thread started off about the JD EV mower and seems to have drifted into political argument. Perhaps the thread could stay on topic about the merits/ pit falls of this machine.
Click to expand...
All EV's and now these pos ELT's are a political scam using taxpayer dollars. they want to OUTLAW our gas mowers and cars and have artificially raised the price of oil to take us in this direction. If you fall for the EV scam things are going to get really really bad..


#67

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Wow! This must be the oil thread replacement for 2023. LOL

Remember, no low blows and protect yourself at all time and quit on the bell.


#68

Smithsonite

Smithsonite

mechanizm said:
absolutely.... notice that all of the "greenies" are flying in private jets and have multiple mansions in several countries. The new rules will be for us and not them. like Schwab says: "you will own nothing and you will be happy". WAKE UP, PEOPLE!
Click to expand...
Truth right here. The green movement is nothing more than a tool to transform the economy so slowly that nobody will recognize what's happening until it's too late. "Rules for thee, but not for me." These morons have frigged up the economy so badly, there's no way out except for a total collapse. They're setting things up so that THEY will be ok - we'll be left to fend for ourselves within the confines of the world they're building for us ("You will own nothing by 2030 and [LIKE IT] be happy ...") If they really gave a shit, none of them would fly, and obama for one wouldn't have bought a $50M mansion on Nantucket or Martha's Vinyard (wherever the hell it is - an island either way) if the sea was going to rise and kill us all. It's all right there on the World Economic Forum if you care to dig, and also search for the deleted pages. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

If you wake up one day and see that a new digital currency has been rammed through by our "leaders", get ready ...


#69

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

Smithsonite said:
Truth right here. The green movement is nothing more than a tool to transform the economy so slowly that nobody will recognize what's happening until it's too late. "Rules for thee, but not for me." These morons have frigged up the economy so badly, there's no way out except for a total collapse. They're setting things up so that THEY will be ok - we'll be left to fend for ourselves within the confines of the world they're building for us ("You will own nothing by 2030 and [LIKE IT] be happy ...") If they really gave a shit, none of them would fly, and obama for one wouldn't have bought a $50M mansion on Nantucket or Martha's Vinyard (wherever the hell it is - an island either way) if the sea was going to rise and kill us all. It's all right there on the World Economic Forum if you care to dig, and also search for the deleted pages. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

If you wake up one day and see that a new digital currency has been rammed through by our "leaders", get ready ...
Click to expand...
Many people are already tired of the government and big corporations cramming electric vehicles down are throats.
1) The infrastructure for charging is not here and would take years and trillions to get up to speed.
2) The electric grid is already outdated and basically maxed out now. Wait until everyone starts plugging in and drawing high amp charges.
3) Battery replacement life and costs are ridiculous.
4) Mining and environmental negative impacts from mining for batteries is devastating to the environment.
5) When you plug in your EV now, what do you think is charging it out of sight and out of mind? A coal fired plant. Hypocrisy.
6) China is supplying many of the necessary elements for battery production. Just think about that one once we are “dependent “ on batteries. Prices will rise and dependence will increase.
7) We like internal combustion engines! They built this world. We like how they sound, smell and operate.


#70

N

nc10

mechanizm said:
The Nobel Prize is a scam.
Click to expand...

But, "they" gave names.....
Mad_mat222 said:
................ Perhaps the thread could stay on topic about the merits/ pit falls of this machine.
Click to expand...
Sry. As others have noted, the 200 hour battery warranty number is a little worrisome. I'd think JD would want to ensure consumer confidence by providing better. I'm not seeing a performance or big operability advantage to drive interest. I guess/assume it will be quieter? Don't need to buy gas. (someone correct me if wrong) You're really banking on consumer prefernce for low emissions, and expected regulations in some areas to drive interest, and support higher pricing. Could commercial lawn services use this? I'd guess not, given the run and expected charge times.


#71

mechanizm

mechanizm

Smithsonite said:
If they really gave a shit, none of them would fly, and obama for one wouldn't have bought a $50M mansion on Nantucket or Martha's Vinyard (wherever the hell it is - an island either way) if the sea was going to rise and kill us all.
Click to expand...
Clearly you don't understand. Global Warming works in mysterious ways. Sea level only rises on far-away, unheard of islands, not Manhattan or Key West... the same people who are falling for the EV scam are probably anxious for their Covid booster too. It's hard to believe that smart people can be this foolish.


#72

mechanizm

mechanizm

Tiger Small Engine said:
Many people are already tired of the government and big corporations cramming electric vehicles down are throats.
1) The infrastructure for charging is not here and would take years and trillions to get up to speed.
2) The electric grid is already outdated and basically maxed out now. Wait until everyone starts plugging in and drawing high amp charges.
3) Battery replacement life and costs are ridiculous.
4) Mining and environmental negative impacts from mining for batteries is devastating to the environment.
5) When you plug in your EV now, what do you think is charging it out of sight and out of mind? A coal fired plant. Hypocrisy.
6) China is supplying many of the necessary elements for battery production. Just think about that one once we are “dependent “ on batteries. Prices will rise and dependence will increase.
7) We like internal combustion engines! They built this world. We like how they sound, smell and operate.
Click to expand...
yes, and how do people think that they're going to road tax these new EV's? THEY'RE GOING TO PUT SPYWARE ON YOUR CAR AND CHARGE YOU BY THE MILE. this is all part of the New World Order nightmare. If the Greenies really cared about our environment, they wouldn't be flooding America with tens of millions of third-world people who are all going to come here and start using energy and then build a big home with SUV's in the driveway. They're intentionally destroying OUR COUNTRY to enslave our offspring. The TV Normies are falling for it.


#73

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Gee, i wonder how they will replace the massive amount of road use excise tax revenue lost to EVs as they phase out those evil gasoline powered vehicles?
Let's just charge everyone a mileage tax.


#74

B

bertsmobile1

mechanizm said:
no, it's totally different. what do you think is going to happen to the price of electricity when every starts recharging their LARGE electric SUVs and lawn tractors? The infrastructure for going electric isn't there! furthermore, oil is NOT a fossil fuel, it's made by the Earth deep in the mantle and is almost as plentiful as water. lastly, there is no "global warming" emergency. All of Al Gore's fear mongering has been proven FALSE. Glacier National Park had a sign telling visitors that The Glacier would be melted by now. It's fine... The mining of lithium is an environmental disaster and how much pollution is caused by building new electric cars and lawn tractors from scratch? EV is a SCAM and everyone is falling for it just like "defunding the post office", "The Hole in the Ozone" and most recently, the Chinese balloon of death. give me a break. SHOOT YOUR TV BRAINWASH BOX!
Click to expand...
YEs there is a global warming emergency
Problem is it started to become chronic 30 years ago but all any one was worried about was smog because you could see it so the authorities could not pretend it was not there Where as Co, Co2, Hf, & clorinated hydrocarbons can not be seen
So we changed fuel formulas did a bit of tweaking and it sort of went away.
Back in 1969 I sat in Physics theatre b at the University of NSW and listened to a public lecture from a physists ( climate science was not a stand alone degree back then.
What he said made perfect sense to people who had studied science .
Climate change is not an event, it is the consequence of atmospheric pollution .
Now all through the 70's & 80's Sydney had really bad smog because there was no tax ( or levie if you like ) on what sort of junk you released into the stuff we breathe , the air itself .
So we generated a stand alone Department of Atmospheric Pollution who firstly identified what was going up into the air, ways of removing it and a time table for industry to comply and there were even government subsidies to do it .
Now big business just took the money then closed down & moved to Indonesia , Brazil or anywhere else with lax or no pollution laws because it was more profitable to do so.
The Eu either bought expensive Australian coal because it has no sulphur so does not crate acid rain, or they put wet scrubbers in the chimneys then dumped all of the sulphuric acid in the Pacific ocean ( if no ones sees it then it doesn't exist does it ) .
The lecturer basically said that even small rises in AVERAGE atmospheric temperatures would create much more violent storms with much heavier rainfalls and many of these would be highly localised and this is exactly what I have seen happening since 1969 when I was made aware of it .
Those who don't want to understand how things work deliberately toss in untruths to muddy the waters & confuse people.
Things like today was the coldest Feb 11 on record so the atmosphere can not be getting hotter .
Ignoring things like yesterday a single suburb got over 1' ( yes foot not inches ) of rain in 2 hours .
More intense , more violent & more localised .

The biggest problem is CO2 is only a small part of the overall puzzle but the media has become obsessed with CO2 to the point that many believe it is the ONLY problem so if they buy an E-V , make the house all electric and toss some solar panels on the roof, then everything will go on as before because this is easy to believe and those with a lot of control over everything you see & hear are in a position to profit greatly from it .
Ever growing economies can not continue to happen unless you drop some A bombs on a significant section of the planet so you have somewhere to expand into .
Just the same as you can not solve homelessness by simply shoving 30 extra people into existing houses .
Farmers can not continue to grow larger & larger quantities of food off the same sized farms and the food they are growing is becoming lower grade annually .

The world is a finite size, there is no planet B we can all escape to and the way we are going planet A will be beyond habitation in the very short future .


#75

B

bertsmobile1

mechanizm said:
NO, that's a scam like, The Hole in The Ozone. Everything that POS, Al Gore said 15 years ago has now been proven WRONG, everything yet somehow people still believe the BS. They change it from "global warming" to "climate change" because this way they'll always be right. FIGURE IT OUT! The EV con is part of The New World Order evil. Here's Scotty telling the truth about these EV P'sos.
Click to expand...
Well as Simon & Garfunkle sang
"A man hears what he want's to hear & disregards the rest "

The hole in the Ozone layer is very real.
If you don't believe this then come down here and spend an hour on the beach in your swim shorts without any sunscreen on.
Around the equator the effect is negligible
Down here it is very apparent
I can not count how many fashion models I have taken to Bondi beach ( because it was on Bay Watch ) the in the afternoon back to the hotel and a few hours latter to A & E for chronic sunburn & they spend the next 2 weeks on opioids for the pain and they all keep on saying "I spend all day at the beach in Cal and I never burn "

Very easy to find an echo chamber for your own disbeliefs but that does not make any of it true.
Thirty million Chinese all believed that the potion the gods told the sharman to make would make them impervios to bullets from the English rifles.
All 30,000,000 of them were wrong


#76

B

bertsmobile1

mechanizm said:
"This book presents the information needed to understand why the ozone depletion catastrophe theory is a hoax. The evidence includes how ozone scientist Gordon Dobson discovered the Antarctic ozone hole in 1956, before CFCs were widely used, & showed that it was a natural annual phenomenon;"
books.google.com

The Holes in the Ozone Scare

This book presents the information needed to understand why the ozone depletion catastrophe theory is a hoax. The evidence includes how ozone scientist Gordon Dobson discovered the Antarctic ozone hole in 1956, before CFCs were widely used, & showed that it was a natural annual phenomenon; how...
books.google.com
Click to expand...
As I said before
"A man hears what he wants to hear & disregards the rest "
The antartic Ozone hole is both seasonal & orbital
So it changes annually and according to which wobble the planets orbit is on at the time
So yes it is a natural phenonomen .
However it used to close completely & only open up a small amount.
Then it started to open up a lot larger & stay open rather than close completely
And this got bigger over time , although like most natural cycles some years were bigger than others .
In science we ( yes I have a bachelors degree in applied science + 4 post graduate diplomas ) alway show complete plots of the data with error bars so when viewed the viewer can see how much certaincy there is in the results .
However various viewers who republish the data skew the graphs to favour their particular standpoint .
And this goes both ways .
Extrapolating data into the future is fraught with dangers because you can not know all of the unknowns .
Science is not a religion, it does not demand blind faith , total obidence and disallow any sort of contradictions.
Good science OTOH is based on the inability of others to prove the current theorys wrong and when they are proved wrong then the new theory is right, till some one else proves it wrong so we will always have the best description of the planet that current technology allows .
When I was at uni , there was noting smaller than electrons , now we know there are quarks, quavers , Higgs Bozons and just found anti matter . Gravitational waves was a joke but it is now known to be true .
Up until the 80's there was no "climate science " so a lot of what was published was not as sound as it could be and based on data measured in non standardized mannars so EU , US, Aus data could not be compiled because of the different ways it was measured .
And it should be no surprise that when a lot of people start to study the same thing very intensely they will find out a lot of stuff that has been missed over the decades when climate science was basically restricted to doing nothing much more than predicting the weather .
It is very obvious that you have a totally closed mind so it is pointless of me to try & argue a point with you.
It was no surprise that you hero worship people who scream at you on videos .
And FWIW I was a foundry metallurgist so I know just what sorts of horrid chemical the metals industry has pumped into the atmosphere for decades and now they have reached concentrations that are creating problems.
There was virtually no photochemical smog till the housing boom of the 60's pushed people out into the fringes of the city where there was little public transport so everyone drove their cars.
So we "fixed" this problem by tightening exhaust emissions & fitting after burners on the exhaust , which was a cheap fix of the symptoms & not the actual problem, dependance upon cars and now yet another chap fix of another symptom E-V's is being rammed through when it is not the actual cause of the problem but thet is cheaper & easier to sell than putting in rail .
Property developers were allowed to build whole suburbs that revolved around car use because it was cheap and allowed more people to achieve their "dreams" and own a home , even if it killed them & their kids a few decades down the road .
BAck when I was an undergraduate Iused to profile furnaces in Sydney for 25% oxygen, this is due to the fact that we are a big island with a lot of bushland & a healthy Pacific Ocean at out door step.
By the time I graduated ( 8 years latter ) I was profiling burners for 21% oxygen . By the time I left industry we were profiling for 19% oxygen .
Back in my campus days, advances in medical research had me believeing that my generation might be either the first to live almost forever or the last to die of old age but now I see a planet that very well could be largely uninhabital in a very short amount of time geologically speaking .


#77

B

bertsmobile1

And one research tool I was taught was to have a close look at the person presenting the contradictory point of view and in particular where the research money is coming from and what the persons motives may be
Then you look at the actual evidence followed by the arguement .
Remember all of the "scientists " who wrote papers & published book argueing that smoking cigarettes was beneficial to everyones health
Now I have tried to order Mr Rogelio Maduro's book but the sale is not going through but if I can find a copy then I will buy it.
He is supposed to be a professor but I can not find any papers other than denialism papers that are fairly current, his thesis should be on public record but I can't find it . That does not mean it is not there it could be on a closed server for paid up subscribers .
I do this because an open mind will asses the arguements from both sides before it comes to a conclusion
However I do see the Mr Maduro has made a career out of of denialism , has at least 5 books along the same lines ( all of which you have to pay for & none appear to be in public libraries apart from Congress library and seems to do a large number of paid for speaking presentations .
As for his arguement about the Ozone hole, with a 5 year lag, the average reduction has largely followed the calculated path and is in concurrenance with the reduction of CFC's

And in case you failed to notice I am not in favour of mass use of Ev's, well actually EV's are fine , Li batteries are not fine .
Conspiracies are easy"find" because you don't need to prove then unless you are in front of a judge and Joe Public likes to see themselves as battleing against the authorities so never look hard at any conspiracy theory.

The actual problem is unregulated capitalism that plays to one of the lesser human traits , unceasing greed .
So the real criminals are the back room funds managers chasing ever increasing returns without the slightest though of the potential consequences .
And this will never change short of a violent & bloody revolution because the unbelievably rich wealthy are the ones who write the laws and pull the strings of their political puppets for their own personnal advantage .


#78

B

bertsmobile1

And my final word , remember what I said by "follow the money"
Untitled.jpg

What very few schools teach is how to research and even fewer how to think objectively.
Most just cram the students heads full of answers to the exam questions then the pupils come out thinking they have been educated .
I had done 1 full time year & one part time year before I actually learned how to search out relevant facts and to fully appreciate the difference between a primary source , a secondary source & those just compiling other peoples work .
A paper with anything lower order than a secondary source in the biblography got an instant fail .
Now days most arguements are bases on the report of a report of a report of a report of a report, posted on twitter then reposted 10,000 time on face book till a total falicy is considered to be true.

When you are dealing with complex things like pollution you have to back to the primary source or you are deluding yoursels by regurgitating your own echo chamber .

Remember just because the road is wet that does not mean it has been raining and because the road is wet over here that does not mean it will also be wet elsewhere .
On top of that every ones personal definition of wet is different .

I have just gone through 4 floods in 18 months , that has never happend to this river before and but for a change in wind direction i would have been 6 floods in 18 months .
Europe has had their worst floods ever recorded while in the middle of a heat wave .
Pakistan had no monsoonal rain for 2 years ( never happened before ) followed by the largest flood in their recorded history .
The Colorado river has had the least amount of inflows this year and that eclipsed to low rates for last year.
The Hoover dam is nearly dry . Arizona is still in drought , the longest in their history and people think climate change is a hoax.
Well from the balcony of you Miami penthouse you might think that but not if it iis you that is shooting all your livestock or got burned out by wildfires in the middle of winter

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#79

M

Mad_mat222

Perhaps someone should start a thread on what are peoples thoughts about the new JD Ev ride on mowers.


#80

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I see what you did there.



LOL 😜


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