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Someone I know is scrapping a 3 yr old nice shape Honda 3 in 1 mower. Son hit something and bent the crank shaft.

Im not a great mechanic, but not the worst. Done many a dirt bike. For a free mower can a DIYer with basic tools do this job?

Thanks

gunslinger, Straightening shafts is art like. I hear it is done, but there is a difference in straightening short term and long term. The successful shops use heat treats to convince the shafts they should stay straight and strong. Not sure it's worth the effort unless obtained free.

Not a job for the home mechanic.
Some shops have a crank straitener tools but as an ex metallurgist I strongly advise against it.
However as a project ( good father & son bonding job ) it would be worthwile getting a replacemnt crank.
Or sending it out to a specialist to have it properly done complete with proper heat treatment.
If you do go through look at fitting a blade carrier & swing back blades, Always a better idea with a direct drive.

You have done some mechanic work so this may be within your knowledge. I have found that one some honda engines the crankshaft is cheap enough to replace if you want to do the work yourself. I am sure somebody here could come up with the manuals if you want to go that route.

Just went and checked and the crank for a GCV160 is going for about $38.00

Thanks gentlemen. Correct, I am not looking to straighten it, just take the engine apart and drop a new one - a good father and son project ;^) But if it takes a bunch of special tools and s=uch probably couldn't do it. Will get the exact model.

Here's a simple exploded diagram of the key parts. Unlike some small gas engines, many Honda mower engines are a diagonal-split block design. They don't have a traditional cylinder head, but use a timing belt design, so still considered overhead valve and overhead cam:



For just a crank R&R, you'd need strap wrench and flywheel puller to get the flywheel off, but otherwise, no special tools really needed. There are some cutters and pilot bars if you ever get into valve reconditioning.

Thanks! I might just give this a try!

I'm about to do the same thing as a_gunslinger. You wouldn't happen to have a shop manual that you could share, would you? I'm a bit concerned about the process of taking the whole mower apart before I get to the point where your diagram will help. Anything would be greatly appreciated!

robert@honda said:

Here's a simple exploded diagram of the key parts. Unlike some small gas engines, many Honda mower engines are a diagonal-split block design. They don't have a traditional cylinder head, but use a timing belt design, so still considered overhead valve and overhead cam:

For just a crank R&R, you'd need strap wrench and flywheel puller to get the flywheel off, but otherwise, no special tools really needed. There are some cutters and pilot bars if you ever get into valve reconditioning.

Click to expand...

OS_Tigger said:

I'm about to do the same thing as a_gunslinger. You wouldn't happen to have a shop manual that you could share, would you?

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Honda offers paper copies of all shop manuals through Amazon and eBay (free shipping). Be sure to have your full model and serial numbers (sticker on the back of the mower deck) when you're ready to order, as some manuals only apply to some models...

Honda Power Equipment Shop Manuals on eBay
Honda Power Equipment Shop Manuals on Amazon

Have you given any thought to re-powering the machine with a Honda GCV190? Another more cost effective option might be to re-power with a Honda clone engine like a Predator 5.5hp 173cc engine ($119)

robert@honda said:

Here's a simple exploded diagram of the key parts. Unlike some small gas engines, many Honda mower engines are a diagonal-split block design. They don't have a traditional cylinder head, but use a timing belt design, so still considered overhead valve and overhead cam:

For just a crank R&R, you'd need strap wrench and flywheel puller to get the flywheel off, but otherwise, no special tools really needed. There are some cutters and pilot bars if you ever get into valve reconditioning.

Click to expand...

Hi Robert, Could you upload this photo again? I could really use a decent diagram of the Crankshaft for my Honda HRR216VKA. Thanks!

atomlow said:

Hi Robert, Could you upload this photo again? I could really use a decent diagram of the Crankshaft for my Honda HRR216VKA. Thanks!

Click to expand...

These ought to help...







You can get paper copies (the HRR216VKA is quite lavish, 180 pages worth) from Honda direct via eBay or Amazon; free shipping.

robert@honda said:

These ought to help...

You can get paper copies (the HRR216VKA is quite lavish, 180 pages worth) from Honda direct via eBay or Amazon; free shipping.

Click to expand...

Thanks for uploading these schematics. I'm trying to decide if I want to try and replace the crankshaft myself or have the shop do it for $200. I'm no small engine mechanic but I've taken a few things apart before, but nothing like this. It's been a hard decision for me, 1. try to fix it myself 2. pay $200 to have the shop fix it 3. just bite the bullet twice and buy a new mower. I'm worried the engine will never be the same if it's taken apart and put back together...

Again thanks for these drawings it might make my decision easier.

I'm new to the forum, here because my Honda HRX217 lawn mower just had the blade impact a short stump along the lot line which caused it to stop immediately. This model has the blade brake/clutch. When restarting it, it vibrated a lot. Checked the dual blades, and one end of the bottom blade was bent pretty significantly. Removed both blades and restarted it. Still vibrated a lot. Didn't want to idle well either. Given it was the end of the lawn season, a drained the fuel and ran the engine until it stopped. Unlike previous years, the engine started slowing down then accelerating frequently as the fuel ran out, and a couple of times backfired. Never did that before, especially the back fire.

So here's my question - is it possible the vibration is not caused by a bent crankshaft (I did not feel any unusual drag when pulling the starter rope slowly), but the impact and instantaneous stopped caused the flywheel key to break, and given the flywheel inertia, caused the flywheel magnets (for the ignition timing pickup) to advance enough so that it would still run, but is causing pre-ignition and causing the vibration, and the backfire and poor idle speed control? Or is it likely I have both (flywheel key broken with advanced timing now, plus a slightly bent crankshaft)?

I was going to put it away for the winter, but was going to buy a new crank, oil seals, and FIPG (form-in-place-gasket) sealant with intent to change the crankshaft out, but now thinking about the very unsmooth idle and the backfire a couple of times when running the fuel out that I may have another cause not requiring a crankshaft replacement and need to replace oil seals.

Any thoughts on this?

The blades are used to help balance the engine.
Pull the plug out and rotate the engine holding the end of the crank lightly between your lubed fingers.
If the crank is bent you will feel it.

Stopping dead can do internal damage to the cam, conrod as well.

Thanks for the feedback, bertsmobile1. Sounds like the best approach is to just take the engine completely apart then and see what is all damaged. Will I be able to visibly see damage to the connecting rod and or cam, if they are damaged? Or might they just be slightly bent and not easily visible when disassembled?

To feel the end of the crank while rotating the engine, I'll need to remove the blade holder - assuming that is relatively easy by removing a single bolt holding it - or is it a taper fit requiring a puller to remove?

No idea about your mower.
Our government is not held hostage to creationists so they do not legislate trying to prove Darwin was wrong.
Thus we get treated by the government as if we ave more than 3 functioning brain cells thus all of the useless safety stuff that is manditory on US models is largely missing from what we get down here.
Our Hondas tend to come direct from Japan, China or the Phillipines & not from Honda America unless there is a total market failure when they dud models get dumped down here.

Freezn said:

Have you given any thought to re-powering the machine with a Honda GCV190? Another more cost effective option might be to re-power with a Honda clone engine like a Predator 5.5hp 173cc engine ($119)

Click to expand...

Exactly what I did with another Honda powered unit. Bolt up holes are exactly the same as it crank pto length. Kind of a no brainer for me especially with a 20% off HF coupon. I have 3 Pred motors. All are gems.

robert@honda said:

These ought to help...

You can get paper copies (the HRR216VKA is quite lavish, 180 pages worth) from Honda direct via eBay or Amazon; free shipping.

Click to expand...

Not to hijack this thread, but a PLASTIC internal engine timing gear? Anybody know why Honda would do that? That with a timing belt does not bode well for long term durability in my opinion.

Plastic timing sprocket (not gear) and synthetic rubber belt to drive the overhead. All good I guess. Personally, I popped two GC motors in the past 2 years and American Honda refused warranty on both. One was a rod through the lower end, the other was scrambled valves. Both replaced by cheap Harbor Freight motors. Hard to beat 99 bucks for a motor. Sent both the GC's to the landfill. Never an issue with the Honda OHV red motors. I have a decade old 13 horse that runs like a top.

SidecarFlip said:

Plastic timing sprocket (not gear) and synthetic rubber belt to drive the overhead. All good I guess. Personally, I popped two GC motors in the past 2 years and American Honda refused warranty on both. One was a rod through the lower end, the other was scrambled valves. Both replaced by cheap Harbor Freight motors. Hard to beat 99 bucks for a motor. Sent both the GC's to the landfill. Never an issue with the Honda OHV red motors. I have a decade old 13 horse that runs like a top.

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That's why I will run my old GXV 120 on my 214SX forever. Bulletproof.

From what I see, Honda is more focused on cheaper than quality today, especially with the GC motors. Like I stated, hard to beat a Predator motor for 99 bucks. I bet the Honda crank costs that.

I've beat the bejesus out of the 6 horse Pred on my pressure washer for the last 3 years. Just keeps on going. Change the oil once a year. Even has the original cheapo 'Torch' plug.

SidecarFlip said:

From what I see, Honda is more focused on cheaper than quality today, especially with the GC motors. Like I stated, hard to beat a Predator motor for 99 bucks. I bet the Honda crank costs that.

I've beat the bejesus out of the 6 horse Pred on my pressure washer for the last 3 years. Just keeps on going. Change the oil once a year. Even has the original cheapo 'Torch' plug.

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Good to know at least in your experience the Pred engines perform well. I wonder if the Harbor Freight generators they have that compare to the $999.99 Honda perform similarly as well.

jsalis57 said:

Good to know at least in your experience the Pred engines perform well. I wonder if the Harbor Freight generators they have that compare to the $999.99 Honda perform similarly as well.

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I have no idea. I do have a Champion Inverter genny that has been fantastic now for 4 years of RV use. Had a Yamaha 2800 I but it was getting up in years and I was concerned about the electronics so I sold it.

My take is the Honda genny's are overpriced. but just my opinion. People seem to be pretty dedicated to their Honda genny's. My Champion was the same price as the Harbor Freight Inverter. My experience with HF is, if it breaks, you are basically screwed. Champion on the other hand has a nationwide network of repair centers, like Honda and Yamaha. All made offshore anyway. Even the domestic made Honda genny's have offshore components. Just assembled here and only certain models.

Had a very negative experience with HF a couple years back with a piece of equipment so I don't hold much candle in HF's reliability. I figure the Pred motors, as cheap as they are are basically a consumable item. Cannot get much cheaper for a complete running engine than 99 bucks.

Not sure who makes Pred motors. At one time Lifan did but I don't think they do now. Lifan made both Honda and Yamaha engines at one time as well.

I've had two predator engine products. I put over 200 hours on a 2" water pump, sold it in 2017, was still running well, and I ran it hard, sometimes over 8 hours straight, filling ponds. That was a 212 cc Predator engine. It was oversized for the pump size, and used too much gas for volume of water pumped compared to the Honda. The little 2 kW inverter generator starts and runs well too, no trouble yet.

John Fitzgerald said:

I've had two predator engine products. I put over 200 hours on a 2" water pump, sold it in 2017, was still running well, and I ran it hard, sometimes over 8 hours straight, filling ponds. That was a 212 cc Predator engine. It was oversized for the pump size, and used too much gas for volume of water pumped compared to the Honda. The little 2 kW inverter generator starts and runs well too, no trouble yet.

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Think that is what is on my pressure washer...the 212 cc. I have flogged that motor (and pressure washer pump) without mercy for years. I change the pressure pump oil(non detergent 30 weight) when I change the engine oil. Always starts first or second pull every time. She's washed a ton of farm equipment. I think it's an AR pump. Not sure. I bought a spare pump just in case but the spare sits on the shelf. Last unit was a CAT pump on a Briggs IC motor.. The Briggs went south and I sold the pump on Flea-Bay.

Pretty hard to go wrong for 99 bucks.

Unlike cheap Honda GC ,most Briggs and most lawnmower for home use on market right now that have no cast iron sleeve .Harbor freight predator engine made in China,a copy of Honda GX have cast iron sleeve so it last much longer

tranchinh said:

Unlike cheap Honda GC ,most Briggs and most lawnmower for home use on market right now that have no cast iron sleeve .Harbor freight predator engine made in China,a copy of Honda GX have cast iron sleeve so it last much longer

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So, I am confused. Honda GC engines do or do not have cast iron sleeve?

For 99 bucks everyday. cast sleeve or not. who cares. It poops out you put on a new one. My Pred is going strong, 3 hard years now. Burns cheap gas and uses cheap oil. I'm happy.

jsalis57 said:

So, I am confused. Honda GC engines do or do not have cast iron sleeve?

Click to expand...

Honda GC and most engine for home use have no cast iron sleeve but harbor freight engine do have cast iron sleeve

tranchinh said:

Honda GC and most engine for home use have no cast iron sleeve but harbor freight engine do have cast iron sleeve

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I learned something this morning....

Like I said, for 99 bucks, I wasn't concerned with the sleeve.

My 16-year-old GCV160 that had around 800 hours on it went out on me last year, I changed out the rings and seals, and it has been running strong for around 50 hours now. It’ll be interesting to see how long the factory bore will hold up.

The engine lasted through two transmissions before I needed to put new rings in it. The average consumer won’t pay for the labor to change the transmission, so the engine is more than capable to last the expected life for the average consumer.