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Hello,

Curious about opinions on the new B&S Vanguard 40 HP EFI that's being put on commercial mowers. Vertical shaft I believe. I was always a fan of the older Vanguard engines. Someone said they used to be made by Datsun and were top of the line engines. Just wonder if it is still true about the newer generation of motors. Here's a link that gives some info on the new vanguard efi's.

EFI and ETC Engines | Vanguard® Commercial Power (vanguardpower.com)

I have a chance to buy one, but am apprehensive. The Kawasaki FX1000V (35HP non-efi) is about $600 cheaper

I prefer Briggs just had better longer service out of them than the last two Kawasaki’s I owned. Plenty of power easy on fuel and you can get parts for them anywhere. 27hp cyclonic is the largest I own and I’m well pleased.

I have a 36hp big block briggs on my frerris Z. It says made in japan so i assume by Daihatsu. About 500 hours and zero issues. It has enough power to burn up the deck belt and not stall the engine if you mow too fast in real tall grass.

briggs said they were moving all vanguard production to the usa. but that was before they went bankrupt. not sure if it happened.

Considering the financial state of B & S in the USA and the ongoing parts supply problems I would not touch a B & S engine with a barge pole.
It is fairly obvious B & S is repositioning themselves as a distributor of other peoples products .
I have 8 B & S engines in stock at the moment and they will be the last ones I ever install.
If a customer wants a B &S engine then they can go to some one else .
It might be different in the USA but down here B &S parts are in so short supply that the aftermarket parts suppliers have had record years.
I regulaly have to wait more then 6 months for parts.
So uunless the deler is going to give you a guarantee of parts supply and agrees to provide a loan mower when ever parts are not available for more than 2 weeks , in writing then forget any B & S engine.

I live about 30 minutes from a Briggs factory not sure what engine or engines they make there but they are hiring like crazy.

I don't wait 6 months for parts but i have waited over a month for a pulley to an MTD snowblower and i waited 3 weeks for a deck brake lever kit for an AYP/Sears mower. Waited about a month for a shaft and seals for a troy bilt pony. Aftermarket parts seems to be recovering but OEM parts are always a wait now. I picked up one of those almost a zero turn cub cadet mowers yesterday for annual maint and when you press the reverse pedal it just whines but forward works fine. That will be fun to look at.

All OEM from time to time have part delivery problems. For me it Husqvarna chainsaw parts a few years ago. It took nearly 3 months to get a crankcase. Last year it was Briggs taking a couple months on a cylinder head.When they did send it they double the price. That was before Briggs had the go around with Chapter 11. Since that happen late in the season I have no idea how parts from them will the coming season.

But I am having problems with my distributor charging full UPS rates; unless, I place a $200+ order. It hurts to pay $45 in shipping on a $100 part order. Late last year I was rerouting orders to other vendors that had more reasonable shipping charges. That vendor with the $200 minumun order was also my after market v-belt supplier until they got to where every belt came in short so I quit the belt orders.

Been waiting on a $6 part for a Craftsman/Briggs and Stratton pressure washer since September

ILENGINE said:

Been waiting on a $6 part for a Craftsman/Briggs and Stratton pressure washer since September

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Might want to not hold you breath on that one.

Hammer, what makes this worse is the fact that this is a missing part for a new out of the box, never run pressure washer.

A few years ago the local tractor supply approached me to do warranty work for them on their Husky brand. I heard that the shop they were using was dropping them because of parts availability. Don't need the hassle. I heard they have lots of new out of the box failures.

TWice I have rung the local warehouse for expected delivery dates and twice I was told "Not an authorised dealer then None of your business"
Rang to ask if a particular Ariens Zoom gators are available, got told "Not in stock and not going to be added to the inventory which is too big already " .
Gripskies apparently had no problem stocking them up till 2 years ago.
Waited 18 months for a 31 series cam shaft ( bought 3 from China , arrived in 15 days and so far 2 of them have been working fine ) .
Waited 12 months for the current model 9A stator , fortunately had a new engine to pinch one from
Waited 11 weeks for 3 blower fans.
Waited 2 months for a rectifier/regulator ( current model )
Put the order in for that blower housing I posted about a few weeks back, it is yet to ship so one must assume again not in stock .

So it is no more B & S engines for this little black duck.
I will hazard a guess that the new money men running the company will slash the inventory of old parts which IS the only thing B & S had going for them.
Down here I can get Loncins, Ducars & Liffans for around 1/3 the $ / Hp .
Loncin have just opened a warehouse so it looks like they are not terrified to carry inventory like B & S Aust is .

lot of good thoughts. I appreciate the advice. I'm a little concerned also, the reason I started the thread. May not be worth the risk. I'm definitely not a fan of most Briggs engines. The cheaper versions are not good, IMO. I thought the Vanguard might be the Crème de la Crème. But don't want to end up in a nightmare. Briggs has been through its share of problems as of late. May just have to stick with the FX1000V from Kawasaki.

Thanks for the help

I don't see Briggs going away anytime soon in the US at least. Even if they were to start cutting parts availability for old engines, we're talking about a current model here, not something made 50 years ago. The big block Vanguards are excellent engines in my experience and I would take one over a Kawasaki. Just my opinion, and no I'm not a Briggs dealer, just like their Vanguard engines.

Kohler is taking over the small engine industry. Cummins Onan are using lg Kohler motors found in RV generators and construction type equipment as well as Miller generators and welding. Tuff engines by far more superior than Briggs.

primerbulb120 said:

I don't see Briggs going away anytime soon in the US at least. Even if they were to start cutting parts availability for old engines, we're talking about a current model here, not something made 50 years ago. The big block Vanguards are excellent engines in my experience and I would take one over a Kawasaki. Just my opinion, and no I'm not a Briggs dealer, just like their Vanguard engines.

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What will end Briggs is the dealers having issues with parts availability. Dealers waiting on parts for months will make dealers skittish about selling or recommending Briggs engines. Everybody seems to think that the Briggs parts issues started recently and they tried to blame it on the Pandemic but in reality dealers have been seeing issues since 2017. Then they didn't even admit there was an issue until 2019 when they tried to blame that on software update issues.

Vanguard engines have been historically top tier excellent engines over the years, but if dealers are worried about parts supplies or Briggs financial issues they will not purchase Briggs engines on equipment that they sell. They will order their stocking orders with Kohler, Kawasaki, or Honda engines.

Late last summer I almost bought a new Scag Turf Tiger with 35 hp B&S engine. I'm OK with my late model Scag with Kohler EFI, just wanted more horsepower. I decided not to trade in for the new one as I was concerned about B&S bankruptcy, possible parts and repair issues in the future. Also, why is the company in bankruptcy? A poor product that is not being bought/used by equipment manufacturers?

Mowergal said:

Late last summer I almost bought a new Scag Turf Tiger with 35 hp B&S engine. I'm OK with my late model Scag with Kohler EFI, just wanted more horsepower. I decided not to trade in for the new one as I was concerned about B&S bankruptcy, possible parts and repair issues in the future. Also, why is the company in bankruptcy? A poor product that is not being bought/used by equipment manufacturers?

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Briggs the last few years has been farming out their brand names to 3rd party companies. Murray made by MTD, Husqvarna, and a Chinese company without a parts or service network, not even a workable website. Their only contact is by a email account. Brute made by Amerisun, Pulsar and Ardisam. Brute and Briggs log splitters by the same company that makes Black Diamond for Rural King. Snapper products sold at Walmart made by MTD and I think another Chinese company.

And keep in mind that Briggs doesn't provide parts, service or warranty for those 3rd party manufactured products other than maybe the Snapper at Walmart products.

ILENGINE said:

Been waiting on a $6 part for a Craftsman/Briggs and Stratton pressure washer since September

Click to expand...

try jacks

highvacboy said:

try jacks

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This was a new model for 2020 and in the beginning of the year Briggs didn't list all the parts numbers in the system to even be ordered. And with Briggs there is only one Distribution system nationwide so my backorder is nationwide. Jacks doesn't show it in stock either. Says 2-10 days which I am sure would turn into the same waiting list I am on now.

primerbulb120 said:

I don't see Briggs going away anytime soon in the US at least. Even if they were to start cutting parts availability for old engines, we're talking about a current model here, not something made 50 years ago. The big block Vanguards are excellent engines in my experience and I would take one over a Kawasaki. Just my opinion, and no I'm not a Briggs dealer, just like their Vanguard engines.

Click to expand...

So how long did it take for Tecumseh to vanish off the face of the planet ?
Here today & gone tomorrow
File another chapter 11 and no longer need to make parts available for engines in mowers yet to be sold let alone stuff that is a year old.
And it will be the latest models that will be the hardest to get parts for as aftermarket parts will not be available for them yet .
Unless there is a massive change in the mentality of the population of the USA which will allow people to be proud pay to have paid more for a better product rather than demand everything gets cheaper every year , B & S is doomed to become a very minor player which is why they decided to take over distribution of Oregon products and they have made an absolute pigs breakfast of that so I would imagine when the contract period is over Oregon will go back to doing it themselves lest B & S drag them into the trash pile as well.
Gator blades are NLA down here and RGS sold thousands of sets each month before the take over .
Briggs got Oregon products into Bunnings down here ( sort of a cross between Harbour Freight & Lowes over there ) but they dropped all Oregon products in less than a year.
Only mower / chainsaw or tool shops that are not franchised to Stihl or Husqvarna can carry Oregon and all the rest are places like Walmart where people go to pay almost nothing for landfil quality products.

And there is a big quality cloud over USA made Vanguard due to the different management philosophy to the workers between Japanese factories & USA factories.
Japanese workers are really valued by the management and having to sack a single employee is seen by the management as a gross failure of their management.
Thus the workers have pride in what they do and go out of their way to to make the best quality products that they can.
They also fell secure in their employment and respect the management , the company & the product.
USA management considers floor workers as nothing more than a "Variable Production Cost " to be reduced to the lowest possible level thus do not respect them and this goes two ways.
Workers have no security , do not feel valued and in general do the least they possibly can and do not care about the quality of the work they do .
AFAIK Lincon Electric is the only USA company that has a profit sharing arrangement that goes all the way from the office right down the the factory floor cleaners.
So Lincon workers know their bonus is tied to the welders they make and thus ensure everything that leaves the factory is top quality.
The reputation of Vanguard engines was built on the same ethics that exist in most Japanese factories which is missing from most USA factories.

Decades ago I was sent to Japan and had a look at their steel industry.
I was amazed that the QC department was almost non- existant yet their products were held in high regard.
When having a chat with one of the QC managers about the lack of final product inspection and his reply floored me.
"the workers on the line will not allow any bad products to get to despatch so as long as we keep the quality of the inputs in check the output requires no inspection."
The particularly USA idea of a Friday afternoon - Monday morning defective "specials" is not known in Japan.

So getting back to the original question
Forget the Vanguard
Eventually B & S will either get the message or go the way of the Do-Do.
With a bit of luck, Kohler will rise to the occasion and take up some of the business that does not go to Chinese factories.

Thanks everyone for chiming in. Been a few days since I checked this thread. I think the novelty and history of the Vanguard is what drew me into the thought of giving it a shot. But until it is proven in the field, I believe i am going to pass on it and stick to tried and true FX Kawasaki motors or Kohler Command, which have a good long history of quality and dependability.

As has already been mentioned a few times, Briggs is just going through too many troubles right now to take the chance. I feel they only have themselves to blame. They did make some terrible engineering mistakes in their cheaper motors. Plastic flywheel gears, plastic starter gears, cheap camshafts, carbs that leak gas, air filters that don't seal properly, etc. etc.

The only briggs that I would care to brag about is the old Japanese Vanguards. Until they have proven to be good engines, it's just not worth the risk.

Of the Tractors & Utility vehicles i've ran on the farm, i can say that a Japanese product (kubota or kawasaki) hasn't let me down when i needed it.

Covid is here. Parts are not maybe??

slomo