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Leaking Fuel pump
#1
D
deminin
D
deminin
I have an older model Coleman Powermate 5000W Generator with a B&S 10 HP engine. The fuel pump leaks. I searched the Internet, and it looks like the old fuel pump has been replaced with a newer part number. I ordered the new style pump, and IT Does Not fit...no matter what I try. The PN of this new pump is a B&S 799056.
The Engine is a Model 19E412-0107-01 with a code of 9610071A. This engine does not show on any parts lists I have found...even though the generator is only about 15 years old.
If anyone has any info on this older model engine, or its fuel pump PN, I would appreciate the info. I carefully took the old pump apart, and ran a small bead of gasket sealer around all the edges of the 3 main parts, and the 2 diaphragms, and will let it cure overnight, then try the old pump again in the morning.
Thanks in advance,
Don M.
The Engine is a Model 19E412-0107-01 with a code of 9610071A. This engine does not show on any parts lists I have found...even though the generator is only about 15 years old.
If anyone has any info on this older model engine, or its fuel pump PN, I would appreciate the info. I carefully took the old pump apart, and ran a small bead of gasket sealer around all the edges of the 3 main parts, and the 2 diaphragms, and will let it cure overnight, then try the old pump again in the morning.
Thanks in advance,
Don M.
#2
reynoldston
reynoldston
Just looks to be a universal low presure small engine fuel pump. You might have to modify the lines to make the new fuel pump fit.
#3
D
deminin
I did some more checking, and on EBAY, I found several sellers offering rebuild kits for this pump....which appears to be a B&S #393397. I didn't see any damage to the pump when I took it apart, so I'll see how my "sealant" job does in the morning.
The new style pump simply does not fit, and about the only way I might be able to get it to work would be to fabricate some sort of bracket to install it. I may even try to run the generator without the pump, as with the tank sitting above the engine, gravity feed should supply sufficient fuel. At least I've found a source for rebuild kits.
D
deminin
Just looks to be a universal low presure small engine fuel pump. You might have to modify the lines to make the new fuel pump fit.
I did some more checking, and on EBAY, I found several sellers offering rebuild kits for this pump....which appears to be a B&S #393397. I didn't see any damage to the pump when I took it apart, so I'll see how my "sealant" job does in the morning.
The new style pump simply does not fit, and about the only way I might be able to get it to work would be to fabricate some sort of bracket to install it. I may even try to run the generator without the pump, as with the tank sitting above the engine, gravity feed should supply sufficient fuel. At least I've found a source for rebuild kits.
#4
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
Results see parts page 11 item 26 fuel pump part number 692026.
Amazon.com : Briggs & Stratton 799056 Fuel Pump Replaces 692026/496257/799056 : Lawn Mower Tune Up Kits : Patio, Lawn & Garden
Amazon.com : Briggs & Stratton 799056 Fuel Pump Replaces 692026/496257/799056 : Lawn Mower Tune Up Kits : Patio, Lawn & Garden
#5
reynoldston
I guess without seeing what you have I have no idea. All you should need is a fuel flow.
reynoldston
I did some more checking, and on EBAY, I found several sellers offering rebuild kits for this pump....which appears to be a B&S #393397. I didn't see any damage to the pump when I took it apart, so I'll see how my "sealant" job does in the morning.
The new style pump simply does not fit, and about the only way I might be able to get it to work would be to fabricate some sort of bracket to install it. I may even try to run the generator without the pump, as with the tank sitting above the engine, gravity feed should supply sufficient fuel. At least I've found a source for rebuild kits.
I guess without seeing what you have I have no idea. All you should need is a fuel flow.
#6
D
deminin
Yup, 799056 is the "New" B&S PN for the old style (no longer available) fuel pump. Unfortunately, it is nowhere near the physical specs of the old pump. The old pump is a fairly small rectangular unit that bolts to the rewind housing and tucks in neatly behind the carb. This new "replacement" pump is a big round fat unit that cannot be mounted in the same place. Every parts breakdown I have seen shows a picture of the Old Style unit, but when you look at the "new" style, the differences become apparent. Every parts breakdown, including the one you sent, shows the pump as item #387, but the new pump is completely different, physically. Everyone supplies a diaphragm rebuild kit, but no one seems to have a complete pump. The PN for the original part...as shown in all these parts diagrams is 393397....which no one seems to have.
I'm going to get this thing working and figured out...and when I do, I am going to contact B&S and point out the problem to them.
D
deminin
Results see parts page 11 item 26 fuel pump part number 692026.
Amazon.com : Briggs & Stratton 799056 Fuel Pump Replaces 692026/496257/799056 : Lawn Mower Tune Up Kits : Patio, Lawn & Garden
Yup, 799056 is the "New" B&S PN for the old style (no longer available) fuel pump. Unfortunately, it is nowhere near the physical specs of the old pump. The old pump is a fairly small rectangular unit that bolts to the rewind housing and tucks in neatly behind the carb. This new "replacement" pump is a big round fat unit that cannot be mounted in the same place. Every parts breakdown I have seen shows a picture of the Old Style unit, but when you look at the "new" style, the differences become apparent. Every parts breakdown, including the one you sent, shows the pump as item #387, but the new pump is completely different, physically. Everyone supplies a diaphragm rebuild kit, but no one seems to have a complete pump. The PN for the original part...as shown in all these parts diagrams is 393397....which no one seems to have.
I'm going to get this thing working and figured out...and when I do, I am going to contact B&S and point out the problem to them.
#7
M
Mad Mackie
M
Mad Mackie
The original fuel pump was discontinued as it was not EPA approved and Briggs will tell you this. Not many new fuel pumps are EPA approved and this is why this pump type is installed on many different manufacturers engines although under the manufacturers own part numbers.
Your generator engine was built in 1996 and many changes have happened since then.
Your generator engine was built in 1996 and many changes have happened since then.
#8
D
deminin
D
deminin
Success! I took the old pump apart carefully, and applied a small amount of silicone gasket seal to all the mating surfaces....then, let it dry overnight. This morning, I put the old pump back in, and fired up the generator and let it run for about 30 minutes, with No Leaks.
I talked to B&S, and it seems that this Bogus Replacement fuel pump requires "mounting modification" to be used on engines built before 2002...Yeah..No Chit! I guess that is all part of the corporate Planned Obsolescence. As for EPA considerations, the Old style pump is probably less likely to pollute than this new unit. The old pump is sealed, so no fuel should escape....whereas, the new style pump has a wire mess "breather", that probably seeps some gas while running, and would probably leak out any fuel left in the pump at shutdown, unless the tank valve is shut off...so much for the EPA.
I talked to B&S, and it seems that this Bogus Replacement fuel pump requires "mounting modification" to be used on engines built before 2002...Yeah..No Chit! I guess that is all part of the corporate Planned Obsolescence. As for EPA considerations, the Old style pump is probably less likely to pollute than this new unit. The old pump is sealed, so no fuel should escape....whereas, the new style pump has a wire mess "breather", that probably seeps some gas while running, and would probably leak out any fuel left in the pump at shutdown, unless the tank valve is shut off...so much for the EPA.
#9
reynoldston
reynoldston
silicone gasket sealant and gas doesn't mix. I just hope you good luck on that. :thumbsup:
#10
KrashnKraka
..."silicone" anywhere, of ANY grade, in any engine, is not good practice. PERIOD.
Read my thread to illustrate one failing of such foible:
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...a-fr541v-top-end-bobbins-rocker-assembly.html
For workshops it is in the product name - Silly (method) Cone (coneheads use it) :thumbdown:
Even it bathrooms/washrooms it fails and there is
the intended use for the base product!!!
KK
KrashnKraka
silicone gasket sealant and gas doesn't mix. I just hope you good luck on that. :thumbsup:
..."silicone" anywhere, of ANY grade, in any engine, is not good practice. PERIOD.
Read my thread to illustrate one failing of such foible:
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...a-fr541v-top-end-bobbins-rocker-assembly.html
For workshops it is in the product name - Silly (method) Cone (coneheads use it) :thumbdown:
Even it bathrooms/washrooms it fails and there is
the intended use for the base product!!!
KK
#11
M
Mad Mackie
The dry side of the diaphragm is vented so it can pulse freely, this is the normal configuration.
My 4000 watt Powermate is a 1994 and has gravity feed to the updraft carb.
M
Mad Mackie
Success! I took the old pump apart carefully, and applied a small amount of silicone gasket seal to all the mating surfaces....then, let it dry overnight. This morning, I put the old pump back in, and fired up the generator and let it run for about 30 minutes, with No Leaks.
I talked to B&S, and it seems that this Bogus Replacement fuel pump requires "mounting modification" to be used on engines built before 2002...Yeah..No Chit! I guess that is all part of the corporate Planned Obsolescence. As for EPA considerations, the Old style pump is probably less likely to pollute than this new unit. The old pump is sealed, so no fuel should escape....whereas, the new style pump has a wire mess "breather", that probably seeps some gas while running, and would probably leak out any fuel left in the pump at shutdown, unless the tank valve is shut off...so much for the EPA.
The dry side of the diaphragm is vented so it can pulse freely, this is the normal configuration.
My 4000 watt Powermate is a 1994 and has gravity feed to the updraft carb.
#12
D
deminin
Yup, this is probably a temporary fix...I ordered a pump rebuild kit on EBAY, since the correct pump seems to be no longer available. The gasket sealer made an immediate difference, in that after 1/2 hour of running there was no evidence of any gas leaking. I fire this generator up about once a month to keep it running good in case we need it....since we live way out in the boondocks. I'll let it sit for a couple of weeks and run it again, and probably run it every two weeks for the next couple of months to see how this sealant holds up. If I see any more evidence of leaking, I will rebuild the pump..should have the parts in a couple of days...for $4.
D
deminin
silicone gasket sealant and gas doesn't mix. I just hope you good luck on that. :thumbsup:
Yup, this is probably a temporary fix...I ordered a pump rebuild kit on EBAY, since the correct pump seems to be no longer available. The gasket sealer made an immediate difference, in that after 1/2 hour of running there was no evidence of any gas leaking. I fire this generator up about once a month to keep it running good in case we need it....since we live way out in the boondocks. I'll let it sit for a couple of weeks and run it again, and probably run it every two weeks for the next couple of months to see how this sealant holds up. If I see any more evidence of leaking, I will rebuild the pump..should have the parts in a couple of days...for $4.
#13
reynoldston
I guess we don't agree on this. If used right I have found silicone sealant is a very good high temp. sealant for oil or water. It also just seems to last forever. Just not for gas because for some reason gas turns silicone sealant into a soft slim. I have found a good sealant for gas is seals-all or JB weld.
reynoldston
..."silicone" anywhere, of ANY grade, in any engine, is not good practice. PERIOD.
Read my thread to illustrate one failing of such foible:
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/small...a-fr541v-top-end-bobbins-rocker-assembly.html
For workshops it is in the product name - Silly (method) Cone (coneheads use it) :thumbdown:
Even it bathrooms/washrooms it fails and there is
the intended use for the base product!!!
KK
I guess we don't agree on this. If used right I have found silicone sealant is a very good high temp. sealant for oil or water. It also just seems to last forever. Just not for gas because for some reason gas turns silicone sealant into a soft slim. I have found a good sealant for gas is seals-all or JB weld.
#14
D
deminin
I checked the pump again today, and there is no evidence of leakage...I left the tank valve open so the pump should be full of gas. The stuff I used is called ProSeal gasket sealant, and the guy at the auto parts store said they've had good feedback on that brand. The excess that is on the outside of the pump has formed into a hard "rubber". I thought of using JB Weld, but I wanted to be able to take this pump apart again, if needed, to replaced its "innerds", without damaging the pump body. I'll know in a few weeks if this jury rig will hold. At least, we are past the Spring storms, so all I want is for this old generator to be in prime condition when Winter arrives. I've only needed it for a few hours, 2 or 3 times, in the past 15 years, but it sure comes in handy if a power line or transformer goes out in the area. We have a total electric house, and I have a big outdoor wood furnace that supplies most of our Winter heat...and the generator supplies enough juice to give us lights, TV, and keep the wood furnace blower running.
D
deminin
silicone gasket sealant and gas doesn't mix. I just hope you good luck on that. :thumbsup:
I checked the pump again today, and there is no evidence of leakage...I left the tank valve open so the pump should be full of gas. The stuff I used is called ProSeal gasket sealant, and the guy at the auto parts store said they've had good feedback on that brand. The excess that is on the outside of the pump has formed into a hard "rubber". I thought of using JB Weld, but I wanted to be able to take this pump apart again, if needed, to replaced its "innerds", without damaging the pump body. I'll know in a few weeks if this jury rig will hold. At least, we are past the Spring storms, so all I want is for this old generator to be in prime condition when Winter arrives. I've only needed it for a few hours, 2 or 3 times, in the past 15 years, but it sure comes in handy if a power line or transformer goes out in the area. We have a total electric house, and I have a big outdoor wood furnace that supplies most of our Winter heat...and the generator supplies enough juice to give us lights, TV, and keep the wood furnace blower running.
#15
reynoldston
Like I said I hope you the best of luck with your repair. As for myself I believe Pro Seal is a very good product and use it myself with very good luck. All you care about is that your fuel pump isn't leaking which is all that counts. I am just saying I wouldn't use a silicone sealant around gas because I have been doing this type of work for many years and have had bad luck with silicone sealant and gas. In time the gas will eat away at the silicone sealant. There are many other products out there that are very compatible with gas which to me would of been a better choice. Next winter when you are in very bad need of your generator I hope the pump doesn't start leaking gas which wouldn't be the time you will want to fix it.
reynoldston
I checked the pump again today, and there is no evidence of leakage...I left the tank valve open so the pump should be full of gas. The stuff I used is called ProSeal gasket sealant, and the guy at the auto parts store said they've had good feedback on that brand. The excess that is on the outside of the pump has formed into a hard "rubber". I thought of using JB Weld, but I wanted to be able to take this pump apart again, if needed, to replaced its "innerds", without damaging the pump body. I'll know in a few weeks if this jury rig will hold. At least, we are past the Spring storms, so all I want is for this old generator to be in prime condition when Winter arrives. I've only needed it for a few hours, 2 or 3 times, in the past 15 years, but it sure comes in handy if a power line or transformer goes out in the area. We have a total electric house, and I have a big outdoor wood furnace that supplies most of our Winter heat...and the generator supplies enough juice to give us lights, TV, and keep the wood furnace blower running.
Like I said I hope you the best of luck with your repair. As for myself I believe Pro Seal is a very good product and use it myself with very good luck. All you care about is that your fuel pump isn't leaking which is all that counts. I am just saying I wouldn't use a silicone sealant around gas because I have been doing this type of work for many years and have had bad luck with silicone sealant and gas. In time the gas will eat away at the silicone sealant. There are many other products out there that are very compatible with gas which to me would of been a better choice. Next winter when you are in very bad need of your generator I hope the pump doesn't start leaking gas which wouldn't be the time you will want to fix it.
#16
D
deminin
Do you have a particular name or brand of sealant that you trust? I want something that will not "bond" these pump components together permanently, so I can take it apart and repair it if need be. I'm open to any good suggestions. The main thing is to Not damage the plastic body of this pump, as it appears that the "replacement" part is not worth fooling with...unless I want to built a special mount.
D
deminin
Like I said I hope you the best of luck with your repair. As for myself I believe Pro Seal is a very good product and use it myself with very good luck. All you care about is that your fuel pump isn't leaking which is all that counts. I am just saying I wouldn't use a silicone sealant around gas because I have been doing this type of work for many years and have had bad luck with silicone sealant and gas. In time the gas will eat away at the silicone sealant. There are many other products out there that are very compatible with gas which to me would of been a better choice. Next winter when you are in very bad need of your generator I hope the pump doesn't start leaking gas which wouldn't be the time you will want to fix it.
Do you have a particular name or brand of sealant that you trust? I want something that will not "bond" these pump components together permanently, so I can take it apart and repair it if need be. I'm open to any good suggestions. The main thing is to Not damage the plastic body of this pump, as it appears that the "replacement" part is not worth fooling with...unless I want to built a special mount.
#17
KrashnKraka
Your "JB weld" seems similar to our FerroPro, a two part epoxy weld for
many base materials. It has it's uses, mostly emergency
- repair later.
For all engine work I have used Permatex #3 exclusively, approved for
aero use it can be an art to use successfully. By that I mean, no mess.
Personally I am also rather fond of the smell it gives to newly completed
work.. it emanates a "ring of confidence".
Certainly we disagree, and being fair to you I would offer you would find
lots of support for your bias. The separating question is however, do you
or those who led you down that path rely on their work as income, or safety
or both.....?
Some lessons are hard learnt. Those advocating silastic sealants have yet
to suffer the consequences of that mistake.
Trust that fills some gaps.
KK
KrashnKraka
I guess we don't agree on this. If used right I have found silicone sealant is a very good high temp. sealant for oil or water. It also just seems to last forever. Just not for gas because for some reason gas turns silicone sealant into a soft slim. I have found a good sealant for gas is seals-all or JB weld.
Your "JB weld" seems similar to our FerroPro, a two part epoxy weld for
many base materials. It has it's uses, mostly emergency
- repair later.
For all engine work I have used Permatex #3 exclusively, approved for
aero use it can be an art to use successfully. By that I mean, no mess.
Personally I am also rather fond of the smell it gives to newly completed
work.. it emanates a "ring of confidence".
Certainly we disagree, and being fair to you I would offer you would find
lots of support for your bias. The separating question is however, do you
or those who led you down that path rely on their work as income, or safety
or both.....?
Some lessons are hard learnt. Those advocating silastic sealants have yet
to suffer the consequences of that mistake.
Trust that fills some gaps.
KK
#18
reynoldston
I think you have been sniffing too much #3 permatex. :confused2:
reynoldston
Your "JB weld" seems similar to our FerroPro, a two part epoxy weld for
many base materials. It has it's uses, mostly emergency
- repair later.
For all engine work I have used Permatex #3 exclusively, approved for
aero use it can be an art to use successfully. By that I mean, no mess.
Personally I am also rather fond of the smell it gives to newly completed
work.. it emanates a "ring of confidence".
Certainly we disagree, and being fair to you I would offer you would find
lots of support for your bias. The separating question is however, do you
or those who led you down that path rely on their work as income, or safety
or both.....?
Some lessons are hard learnt. Those advocating silastic sealants have yet
to suffer the consequences of that mistake.
Trust that fills some gaps.
KK
I think you have been sniffing too much #3 permatex. :confused2:
#19
reynoldston
There many good brand of sealant out there. Just make sure it is compatible to gasoline. As said on a earlier post #3 Permatex is one of many. You just want something that is removable.
reynoldston
Do you have a particular name or brand of sealant that you trust? I want something that will not "bond" these pump components together permanently, so I can take it apart and repair it if need be. I'm open to any good suggestions. The main thing is to Not damage the plastic body of this pump, as it appears that the "replacement" part is not worth fooling with...unless I want to built a special mount.
There many good brand of sealant out there. Just make sure it is compatible to gasoline. As said on a earlier post #3 Permatex is one of many. You just want something that is removable.
#20
KrashnKraka
Heh.... I just know I m not on the right "stuff" to make the 2.5K post club...!
FWIW,,, yer missing the point. No matter... small bananas in terms of generating
commerce.
KK
KrashnKraka
I think you have been sniffing too much #3 permatex. :confused2:
Heh.... I just know I m not on the right "stuff" to make the 2.5K post club...!
FWIW,,, yer missing the point. No matter... small bananas in terms of generating
commerce.
KK
#21
D
deminin
Thanks for the tip on Permatex #3. Our local parts store is pretty limited on their selection, but we will be going up to the city next week, so I'll stop at a couple of bigger stores, and check on this brand...and any others they have. Now that I've taken this pump apart, its a pretty easy job, so I'll look for a better sealant, and put new "innards" in the pump, and hopefully that should prep me for having this generator ready to go if we need it.
D
deminin
There many good brand of sealant out there. Just make sure it is compatible to gasoline. As said on a earlier post #3 Permatex is one of many. You just want something that is removable.
Thanks for the tip on Permatex #3. Our local parts store is pretty limited on their selection, but we will be going up to the city next week, so I'll stop at a couple of bigger stores, and check on this brand...and any others they have. Now that I've taken this pump apart, its a pretty easy job, so I'll look for a better sealant, and put new "innards" in the pump, and hopefully that should prep me for having this generator ready to go if we need it.
#22
reynoldston
Permatex has been around as long as I can remember . As I recall back in the 50's Permatex came in three numbers 1,2,and 3. They still are making the same products today so they must be good. Just couldn't resist the #3 Permatex remark. :ashamed:
reynoldston
Heh.... I just know I m not on the right "stuff" to make the 2.5K post club...!
FWIW,,, yer missing the point. No matter... small bananas in terms of generating
commerce.
KK
Permatex has been around as long as I can remember . As I recall back in the 50's Permatex came in three numbers 1,2,and 3. They still are making the same products today so they must be good. Just couldn't resist the #3 Permatex remark. :ashamed:
#23
KrashnKraka
My apologies.. the joke got lost winging it's way through Bueonos Aires..heh heh.
#3 is approved for use in combustion engines by aerospace bodies.
Important as you would well know you cannot prevent "sealant" residing
internally on a gasket/seal. #3 will not migrate to cotterpin ends or bearing
shell oilway paths, or waterpump/fuel pump/carby sleeves and screens.
It's just a bugger to use some days, don't cleanup so good, hence other
'sealants' get popularity, regardless of unsuitability.
But you yourself know all this ;-)
No harm done... Cheers
KK
KrashnKraka
Permatex has been around as long as I can remember . As I recall back in the 50's Permatex came in three numbers 1,2,and 3. They still are making the same products today so they must be good. Just couldn't resist the #3 Permatex remark. :ashamed:
My apologies.. the joke got lost winging it's way through Bueonos Aires..heh heh.
#3 is approved for use in combustion engines by aerospace bodies.
Important as you would well know you cannot prevent "sealant" residing
internally on a gasket/seal. #3 will not migrate to cotterpin ends or bearing
shell oilway paths, or waterpump/fuel pump/carby sleeves and screens.
It's just a bugger to use some days, don't cleanup so good, hence other
'sealants' get popularity, regardless of unsuitability.
But you yourself know all this ;-)
No harm done... Cheers
KK
#24
D
deminin
D
deminin
A couple of days ago, I sent Briggs and Stratton an E-mail, asking them if they knew of a replacement Part Number that is a direct replacement for these older style fuel pumps. Today, I got a response back...and it is "Informative"...Quote...
"Unfortunately, Briggs and Stratton Does NOT assist with part selection/identification. If you have a part that appears to have changed in design, please contact a local dealer for further assistance"
WOW! If B&S corporate doesn't track changes in parts design, How in the World is a dealer supposed to have such information??? This tells me that the next time I am contemplating buying a unit with a small engine...mower, etc., It would probably be a good idea to consider a unit that uses an engine other than B&S.
"Unfortunately, Briggs and Stratton Does NOT assist with part selection/identification. If you have a part that appears to have changed in design, please contact a local dealer for further assistance"
WOW! If B&S corporate doesn't track changes in parts design, How in the World is a dealer supposed to have such information??? This tells me that the next time I am contemplating buying a unit with a small engine...mower, etc., It would probably be a good idea to consider a unit that uses an engine other than B&S.