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Hi folks,
I have a 2010 Kohler Courage twin SV840-0012 on my BadBoy Z turn. I decide to put an oil pressure gauge on it. I reads 30 psi at startup. After warmup it drops to 20 psi at idle, and 22 psi at 3000 rpm. Is this too low or is it pretty normal? Any help appreciated.

Well the service manual doesn't spec the oil pressure other than the oil pressure switch operates at 3-5 psi and that may not warn before damage occurs.

Thanks for your reply Star. I would think they would want people to know as much as possible to insure reliability of their engine.

grpascott said:

Thanks for your reply Star. I would think they would want people to know as much as possible to insure reliability of their engine.

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For the 10 millionith time
Vertical shaft engines are made to a price, not a quality
They are the cheapest engine that it is humanly possible to make so nothing will get added that costs more .
This is why quality engine makers hike Honda exited the market
They are only designed to barely last the expected life of the mower
Most of the oil filters have a bypass btween 7 to 10 psi so you can take that as being the minimum allowable oil presure

I ride old British motorcycles and running oil pressures in the 5 to 10 psi range are normal for a hot engine.

grpascott said:

Thanks for your reply Star. I would think they would want people to know as much as possible to insure reliability of their engine.

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bertsmobile1 said:

For the 10 millionith time
Vertical shaft engines are made to a price, not a quality
They are the cheapest engine that it is humanly possible to make so nothing will get added that costs more .
This is why quality engine makers hike Honda exited the market
They are only designed to barely last the expected life of the mower
Most of the oil filters have a bypass btween 7 to 10 psi so you can take that as being the minimum allowable oil presure

I ride old British motorcycles and running oil pressures in the 5 to 10 psi range are normal for a hot engine.

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Thanks for your input Bert, having worked as a avionics quality control tech for years, I guess my perspective is a bit too altruistic. I still enjoy working on my equipment, and helping others with mower mending.

grpascott said:

Thanks for your input Bert, having worked as an avionics quality control tech for years, I guess my perspective is a bit too altruistic. I still enjoy working on my equipment, and helping others with mower mending.

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I think Honda mainly exited the push and self-propelled mower market for two main reasons.
1) Battery outdoor power equipment is the trend and Honda got out earlier than others on gas stuff
2) Low gross profit margin on this equipment, small percentage of overall sales, highly competitive market in this area
(Guess it is 4 reasons really).

Lawn care equipment are getting so secretive about their equipment even dealers are having hard times at getting the needed info.

The individual components companies that provide parts to these OEMs gives such huge discounts it is funny when what a repair shop have to pay for replacement parts. It is now costing a small fortune just repair the equipment. No wonder that China is taking over the replacement parts industry as they are able to sell at reasonable prices. Just try comparing the sale price of a walk behind mower to the replacement parts. Most cost more to repair than they cost new.

Procurement of parts is a main challenge for any repair shop now-days. A lot of the electrical repairs I do would cost an arm and a leg in other shops that don't the resources and knowledge I have gain over the years. I even created a few PDFs of the info I have gathered in the last ten plus years so I can have the info at my fingertips.

As the oil pressure on the Kohler in this post it would take someone with engine in their shop to take the time and actually measure the pressure. Personally I don't have a SV800 series in the shop right now. But to be honest it would take to time away from their beer drinking time and they can't have that.

BTW I getting tired of trying to deal with the "Space Cadets" at tech support. Some don't even know what an engine is.

What you're saying is true. It's frustrating to see "No longer available" on a parts list, or you have to buy
a whole assembly not an individual part. I think Honda's problem with the decompression debacle put them over the edge. Yeah, if you can get through the robot answering machine the techs arent very
helpful.
Enjoyed your insight...will talk with you again.

Tiger Small Engine said:

I think Honda mainly exited the push and self-propelled mower market for two main reasons.
1) Battery outdoor power equipment is the trend and Honda got out earlier than others on gas stuff
2) Low gross profit margin on this equipment, small percentage of overall sales, highly competitive market in this area
(Guess it is 4 reasons really).

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And then Honda secretly does this in the background

grpascott said:

Hi folks,
I have a 2010 Kohler Courage twin SV840-0012 on my BadBoy Z turn. I decide to put an oil pressure gauge on it. I reads 30 psi at startup. After warmup it drops to 20 psi at idle, and 22 psi at 3000 rpm. Is this too low or is it pretty normal? Any help appreciated.

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That’s normal

Thank you Sessman. I've seen estimates from 10 to 40 psi. Nothing specific is motioned in any manual or tech sheets that I've seen. I appreciate your input. Let's keep'em mowing!

grpascott said:

Thank you Sessman. I've seen estimates from 10 to 40 psi. Nothing specific is motioned in any manual or tech sheets that I've seen. I appreciate your input. Let's keep'em mowing!

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I saw an autonomous battery zero turn at the Equipment Expo two weeks ago. $75,000. I wonder what the break even point is for additional cost, maintenance, etc.

At any rate, OEM parts are often cost prohibitive vs a good aftermarket part. You would’ve cost would at least be somewhat competitive. 4 to 5 times the cost , in some cases, is not even close.

Tiger Small Engine said:

I saw an autonomous battery zero turn at the Equipment Expo two weeks ago. $75,000. I wonder what the break even point is for additional cost, maintenance, etc.

At any rate, OEM parts are often cost prohibitive vs a good aftermarket part. You would’ve cost would at least be somewhat competitive. 4 to 5 times the cost , in some cases, is not even close.

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Not always when reliability in figured in.

I do use a lot of OEM and aftermarket parts. Just depends what I they are being used for. Plus a lot of the time I buy OEM from the manufacture of the install equipment of a particular machine. Example is a recent thread here the DC equipment wanted about 4-5 the price of the Hydro Gear distributor price. Same exact part just cutting out the middle men. And on parts the OEM are actually a new lower cost through the distributor.

Or like the aftermarket ignition coils I brought for Kawasaki v-twin with a year I had to change them out twice and now the engine is back with another failed coil so Kawasaki coils are going back on it.

Then there was the case of the Oregon ignition switch I install on JD Z830A that rusted up because the mower was left out in the rain. I end replacing it with an new Indak switch and the customer has had a single problem with the ignition since.

Using after market non OEM (Chinese) parts is a crapshoot. If the fail requires a complete teardown again or possible catastrophic damage I'll use OEM. External parts I'll give it a shot for economics. (I have more time than money)

grpascott said:

Using after market non OEM (Chinese) parts is a crapshoot. If the fail requires a complete teardown again or possible catastrophic damage I'll use OEM. External parts I'll give it a shot for economics. (I have more time than money)

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Even some what some call external parts are a royal pain to change out. Take Z830A for an example there a lot things that has to come off to get the engine shroud off to change the coils. Nearly a two hour job with hand tools. And try changing the remote starter solenoid on a Gravely 992044 where in order to get to the starter solenoid you have to unbolt the engine. Again lots of labor to change it out and if fails again due to a crappy aftermarket all that time is wasted..

grpascott said:

Hi folks,
I have a 2010 Kohler Courage twin SV840-0012 on my BadBoy Z turn. I decide to put an oil pressure gauge on it. I reads 30 psi at startup. After warmup it drops to 20 psi at idle, and 22 psi at 3000 rpm. Is this too low or is it pretty normal? Any help appreciated.

Click to expand...

That is plenty of oil pressure. Oil pressure is needed to overcome inertia forces of a spinning crankshaft. High revving long throw engines need higher oil pressures so the short throw low revving mower engines only need a few pounds of oil pressure.

StarTech said:

Even some what some call external parts are a royal pain to change out. Take Z830A for an example there a lot things that has to come off to get the engine shroud off to change the coils. Nearly a two hour job with hand tools. And try changing the remote starter solenoid on a Gravely 992044 where in order to get to the starter solenoid you have to unbolt the engine. Again lots of labor to change it out and if fails again due to a crappy aftermarket all that time is wasted..

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Point well taken.

Hammermechanicman said:

That is plenty of oil pressure. Oil pressure is needed to overcome inertia forces of a spinning crankshaft. High revving long throw engines need higher oil pressures so the short throw low revving mower engines only need a few pounds of oil pressure.

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That makes sense,

Hammermechanicman said:

That is plenty of oil pressure. Oil pressure is needed to overcome inertia forces of a spinning crankshaft. High revving long throw engines need higher oil pressures so the short throw low revving mower engines only need a few pounds of oil pressure.

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That makes sense! Thanks for the help.

Toyota has been making a hybrid (gas and battery) car for years, the Prius.

I have had three bad aftermarket parts right out of the box this year, it happens. It also depends upon how long it takes to get to part, etc. to replace to use OEM vs aftermarket.

Just a friendly observation: Remember if you see a comment in a post you think is ridiculous, you have the option to just scroll on by without responding. In an attempt to show how knowledgeable you are, you end up just showing what an ###### you are !

To the OP, I agree with those who have said your oil pressure is normal. A car engine's oil has a lot more passages and places to oil so the pressures can be much higher than you are seeing. And even those will see a decrease in pressure as it warms up.

ILENGINE said:

And then Honda secretly does this in the background

Honda debuts its first-ever electric autonomous zero-turn riding lawn mower

Honda today launched its first prototype battery-powered electric autonomous zero-turn riding mower (yes, it actually drives itself).

electrek.co

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I don't know about you but I'm not at all excited about all this EV stuff. I mean some places I see where it might be effective, but if you've got multiple yards to cut a day or even if your yard is huge, would it last a charge. And then you have to worry about maintenance cost. Batteries are by no means cheap. And there's no telling how much the motors would cost.

grpascott said:

Hi folks,
I have a 2010 Kohler Courage twin SV840-0012 on my BadBoy Z turn. I decide to put an oil pressure gauge on it. I reads 30 psi at startup. After warmup it drops to 20 psi at idle, and 22 psi at 3000 rpm. Is this too low or is it pretty normal? Any help appreciated.

Click to expand...

What oil and viscosity are you using?
And what is the high temperature where you are using this equipment?

rutbuster1 said:

I don't know about you but I'm not at all excited about all this EV stuff. I mean some places I see where it might be effective, but if you've got multiple yards to cut a day or even if your yard is huge, would it last a charge. And then you have to worry about maintenance cost. Batteries are by no means cheap. And there's no telling how much the motors would cost.

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I don't think this is going to go like they think it will. I have already had bad experiences with customer product where they obsoleted the repair parts while the unit was still under warranty. Company comes out with a 40v model and customers purchase that item, but six month later that same company moves to the 56v model and no longer supply replacement parts or batteries for their 40v line. Or if the replacement battery is available the cost of the battery is more than it cost to just replace the item entirely with a new model.

And then you have to dispose of the old batteries. And how many of those lithium-ion batteries are going to end up in garbage trucks that catch fire. Or how many items will end up at the side of the road and in landfills because they are not worth repairing, or no parts available.

But it is PROGRESS.

If you know that the oil prssure light comes on when you turn the key on and the engine NOT RUNNING and it never comes on when the engine is operating everything is normally ok.
I've seen the light flicker a low idle but go off when the engine picks up few rpms and I never seat such on small engines.
I've know of people that would overhaul an engine to make the oil pressure read higher and when they put it back together the oil pressure would be lower than before but acceptable.
If it were mine that you describe I would put it too work and change the oil as recommended.
Some small engine oil pressure Idiot light sensors are 3-5psi,
some 5-7.
If I see a oil light flickering or coming on first thing I do is check the actual oil pressure with a gauge. (I've seen bad/erratic sensors.

grpascott said:

Thanks for your reply Star. I would think they would want people to know as much as possible to insure reliability of their engine.

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They do not! All they care about is making a product that will have the fewest or at least a negligible number of warranty claims and will get past the warranty and not be too much worse or too much better than the competition.
Gone, are the days of people making a product with every intention and even hoping you can get a decade or even two decades plus of service from it with minimal repairs and maintenance.

Now to address the actual post, that's great if you want to know what the oil pressure is but it's just a waste of time to get the gauge out and put it on the machine..
It obviously has oil pressure and it's doing just fine or it would have blown up several hours ago.
It doesn't really matter much about the oil pressure either because we had lawn mower engines for decades that had no pressure lubrication and work just fine but I'm not saying these would continue to run long without the oil pump because they've designed them that way and they've become more fragile in that aspect without actually giving us any more years of longevity. Lol
But overall, with engines in general, they need very little oil pressure too live a long and mostly happy life.
Almost everything out there has far more than it needs and you can see from the specifications for the oil pressure lights etc on most of these vehicles and mowers that is typically in the three to four PSI range and even cars as low as four to six before the lights come on that it doesn't take much.
It is also not accurate to say that if one only needs 5 PSI that 10 is going to be better and that 20 is going to be even better.
Having a little bit of a cushion like 7 to 9 would be just fine and 10 would probably be fine in these situations also but there is a point of diminishing returns or the lack of any extra returns where it's just a waste having 25 psi let's say because it's not going to help the overall durability of the engine in any way whatsoever.

Not to debate the virtues of going EV but rather EV equipment serviceability. I have quit taking in any battery equipment in my shop. Even if I can diagnose a problem finding parts is difficult or impossible. I get asked a lot if I can get cheaper batteries and of course I can't. It seems that manufacturers are going for maximum profit by not supporting equipment with service parts and charging exorbitant prices for replacement batteries. I am seeing stuff only a few years old going to the landfill for things like a bad switch or wheel. I fix lots of 20 year old cheap gas powered push mowers. I guess time will tell how servicing battery stuff will shake out. I am not optimistic.

Hammermechanicman said:

Not to debate the virtues of going EV but rather EV equipment serviceability. I have quit taking in any battery equipment in my shop. Even if I can diagnose a problem finding parts is difficult or impossible. I get asked a lot if I can get cheaper batteries and of course I can't. It seems that manufacturers are going for maximum profit by not supporting equipment with service parts and charging exorbitant prices for replacement batteries. I am seeing stuff only a few years old going to the landfill for things like a bad switch or wheel. I fix lots of 20 year old cheap gas powered push mowers. I guess time will tell how servicing battery stuff will shake out. I am not optimistic.

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I will not and do not service any battery powered outdoor power equipment. Most of the homeowner stuff such as Ryobi, Craftsman, etc. there are very few if any shops that will repair. If you buy Stihl, Echo, Husqvarna, Redmax from a dealer, then the dealer will service the battery equipment that they sell. The initial onus is on the buyer to think long term. What happens if my battery powered trimmer, etc. quits working? Who will fix it? Shops can be as selective as they want on what they will and will not work on. Next year I am going to be much more selective than in years past. Too many headaches and frustration, with little profit for time spent.

Gescha said:

What oil and viscosity are you using?
And what is the high temperature where you are using this equipment?

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oil=5w-40, temp 85 degrees

oil=5w-40, temp 85 degrees

ILENGINE said:

I don't think this is going to go like they think it will. I have already had bad experiences with customer product where they obsoleted the repair parts while the unit was still under warranty. Company comes out with a 40v model and customers purchase that item, but six month later that same company moves to the 56v model and no longer supply replacement parts or batteries for their 40v line. Or if the replacement battery is available the cost of the battery is more than it cost to just replace the item entirely with a new model.

And then you have to dispose of the old batteries. And how many of those lithium-ion batteries are going to end up in garbage trucks that catch fire. Or how many items will end up at the side of the road and in landfills because they are not worth repairing, or no parts available.

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Seems to me that the 'all green' people do not take into account that when these batteries go bad, they have to be replaced. Imagine the cost it would be for a battery or batteries on an all EV lawn tractor or zero turn. Not to mention that the batteries are toxic to the environment. These batteries are supposed to be recycled but most people just throw them in the garbage can.

rutbuster1 said:

Seems to me that the 'all green' people do not take into account that when these batteries go bad, they have to be replaced. Imagine the cost it would be for a battery or batteries on an all EV lawn tractor or zero turn. Not to mention that the batteries are toxic to the environment. These batteries are supposed to be recycled but most people just throw them in the garbage can.

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I think the replacement battery for the Greenworks Pro 60" commercial battery mower is something like $10-12K. The mower is $27K

ILENGINE said:

I think the replacement battery for the Greenworks Pro 60" commercial battery mower is something like $10-12K. The mower is $27K

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How can anyone afford that? And that's just a lawn mower. Sheesh!

rutbuster1 said:

How can anyone afford that? And that's just a lawn mower. Sheesh!

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Somebody is buying them. A few years back when Troybilt came out with their little 30" battery rider that looks like a rear engine snapper. The mower sold for $2500 and the replacement battery was $1800. So that mower went to the scrap pile when the battery went bad.

ILENGINE said:

Somebody is buying them. A few years back when Troybilt came out with their little 30" battery rider that looks like a rear engine snapper. The mower sold for $2500 and the replacement battery was $1800. So that mower went to the scrap pile when the battery went bad.

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Waste of $$$ in my opinion.

To those intent on virtue signaling, nothing is to expensive .
And apparently there is now a process that can recycle Li batteries safely.
In fact the machine can handle all types of rechargeable batteries

bertsmobile1 said:

To those intent on virtue signaling, nothing is to expensive .
And apparently there is now a process that can recycle Li batteries safely.
In fact the machine can handle all types of rechargeable batteries

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Still a waste of $$$ for something that's going to bankrupt in a short time.