Kawasaki FR691V compatibility

[Mad Mackie]

Hi Rodney,
I had a feeling that you were in a dusty area. ZTRs by their nature of design are dusty machines that directly affect the engine incoming air both for combustion and cooling. I use a collection system on my Scag Tiger Cub which increases the dust problem as the collection bags are just inches from the incoming engine air.
As I have been a power equipment mech at various times in my life, I am keenly aware of how important it is to provide the cleanest air possible to an engine. In retirement I do some service work and do lawn care about 3 day a week.
The 26 HP Briggs Intek/ELS that came as original power on my Scag had a problem filtering air and providing sufficient cooling to both cylinders. This engine was replaced at 472 HRS and I had originally intended to repower with an FX730V model which is the engine that is on my Hustler X-ONE. The cost of this repower was almost three times the cost of the 30 HP Briggs Commercial Turf engine that I finally went with, this engine is working out fine for me.
As for repowering your machine if it comes to that, the price of an FR691V is close to the price of an FX691V. The FS and FX engines have a solenoid shift type starter motor whereas the FR is the Bendix type that needs a separate starter solenoid.
I always tell the folks that I do repowers for that they need to make the decision about keeping their repowered machine and using it as they will not get their money back doing an expensive repower and selling the machine. Using the machine is the only way that they will receive any amount of recovery of the cost of repowering.
An upgrade of power on a machine causes it to no longer be a production machine relative to model number and parts identification in manufacturers parts and service manuals. This usually pushes down the resale value of the machine unfortunately even with a new engine on warranty.
Keep us up dated as to the sequence of events that you encounter with this machine.

 

[RodneyShuffler]

Thanks Mackie for the added info. on FX series. Do you see any reason the FX (given proper clearance for the canister filter system) wouldn't be a direct drop in for the FR? I'll keep the machine, I'm otherwise very happy with it. If I have to repower, I won't until this engine totally craps out. I WILL go get my mower today and get it to another shop. The lady told me Saturday that even if it can be repaired with a ring job (instead of trashed), she can't do it.... she'd have to take it to the other location, 100 miles from her.
It's been a fairly frustrating two weeks, I just want to get it to someone competent.
In the final resolution, if they determine the cylinder walls are scored and the engine can't be saved, why not run it until it craps out?...... that could take another 80 hours... or more.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Good morning Rodney,
I understand your frustration having been on both sides of the counter in service shops.
I do repower business with Small Engine Warehouse, Tulsa Engine Warehouse and Equipatron.com. You can go to their websites and checkout the Kawasaki engines that are suitable for your machine and educate yourself. My most recent repower engines have come from Equipatron.com. I usually have the customer place the order and receive the engine, this simplifies the warranty as I am not a dealer for any small engine line. I then pickup the engine, do the repower and deliver the machine back to them.
I'm puzzled as to why the dealer hasn't performed a simple diagnostic test on your engine which is a leakdown test. This test quickly indicates where there is compression leakage and the leakage rate. This test doesn't show why there is excessive oil consumption, but the results will indicate what may be causing the oil consumption.
Kawasaki doesn't provide mufflers, so the exhaust system is a Hustler supplied part. Your muffler should fit onto an FX691V engine and the FX engine should be a direct fit onto your machine as it has Kawasaki power originally. You need to research in the Hustler parts manuals on line to be sure of the repower and be confident and or aware of any situations. Your FR engine has a separate starter solenoid, with an FX repower, this solenoid will be removed as the FX engine has a solenoid shift starter. The positive battery cable will need to be replaced with a longer one and connected to the terminal on the starter motor. Also the small wire on the solenoid that comes from the key switch will need to be extended and connected to the starter motor.
The control cables, fuel line, clutch and drive pulley should swap over to the new engine as long as the crankshaft dimensions are the same.
The suns is shining and I need to get mowing, have a great day!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[RodneyShuffler]

My dealer called and said the compression check was good and they really can't find anything wrong with the engine.... They are going to put a Kawasaki air filter back on with an oil foam filter around it, change the spark plugs, change the oil to 20W50 and new oil filter. They want me to take it home and keep an eye on it and just report to them what my findings are after a few hours of operation. I will do my best to post an update after I run it a couple of hours.

 

[RodneyShuffler]

Before I left the dealer, they took me into the shop and the mechanic discussed a few things with me...most notably, do not oil the foam pre-filter on Kawasaki engines. Shop notes on my ticket stated both cylinders check at 120 for compression. I will take it home and mow to see how it does, odd to me that the recommendations for oil in the manual don't even mention 20w50, but that's what they put in there.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Hi Rodney,
Run your machine and keep us up to date as to how it is operating!!!

 

[RodneyShuffler]

I mowed two hours (according to engine clock) today starting with my oil level where the dealer had it. It was right on the full mark, when I finished I cleaned up and let the engine cool and oil settle for 30 minutes or so and the level is exactly half-way between add and full. It's been compression checked, new plugs, new oil and oil filter, new Kawasaki air filter with new foam pre-filter and carb cleaned out. I looked in the throat of the carb and it had some oil in it. Is there a PCV valve in this engine and could it be clogged?

Also, it clearly states in the manual that using multi-grade oils will increase oil consumption, so why would the dealer use 20W50?

Thanks,
Frustrated (I mean Rodney)

 

[RodneyShuffler]

I found this interesting, hope sharing this thread isn't a "no-no"..........I've found others and it seems that I'm not the only one having this problem.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Hi Rodney,
Check the engine oil with the engine in the same condition, the manual says to do it with a cold engine. Keep a record of what your findings are.
It is important for you to be consistent and keeping a record with the date and machine hours.
I know that a lot of dealers are using 20W50 in Kawasaki engines, not sure why. I run straight 30 in my Kawi FX730V. This engine was produced in late 2011 and my Hustler X-ONE is a mid 2012 production model. When this machine is used, it runs for 8-10 hours sometimes up to three days running, no problem with oil consumption at all.
Maintain your "cool", record keeping on this engine will be your best evidence of what is going on.:biggrin:

 

[RodneyShuffler]

Finished up the yard the other day for a total of 3 hours (exactly) mow time and it took 8oz. oil to top back off. I've taken it to a different store (same dealer/business in a different town). I know this much for sure, I'm buying another mower in about 18 months, going up to 60" from 54".......I really like this Hustler, but if Kawasaki and the dealer don't make this right, I won't buy Hustler or any other mower with a Kawasaki. I've spent (so far) 138 bucks for the shop to pretty much service the mower and clean the carb because they had no idea what was wrong with it and still don't, 140 miles round trip 3 times now.....to dealer. back from dealer and to other store of dealer.
I'm a little frustrated.........and worried about warranty not being honored. I could actually see some white smoke coming out when I fired it up to load it (it was cold) so the issue is becoming worse.

I'll update when there's more resolution.

Thanks again for all the replies,
Rodney