Export thread

First, greets to all!

I've been reading in the shadows all of the great info you folks have posted. Which in turn lead me to my local tractor shop/Ferris dealer.

I have read here and elsewhere, to pay the $450 for the Kawasaki engine.

The dealer however says, B&S has come a long way and the "Briggs & Stratton Commercial Turf Series" and that is their engine of choice. In the past few years of this engine, they report 0 returns or warranty issues. They sell about 30 Ferris units annually.

They would gladly order me one with the Kaw, and try to get it shipped, and arrive by Derby. Derby by the way is about the 3rd week of mowing season here. HOWEVER, we appear to have an early spring this year and honestly, the grass is gonna need cut next weekend if these 60 degree days hang around. But they have three in stock right now with the B&S.

My question to you all is; does this sound like let's make a deal now and move one in stock, or has the B&S really made improvements with the "Briggs & Stratton Commercial Turf Series"?

The Ferris IS600 is my #1 choice this is the only dealer within a reasonable drive.

Hi Drewski,
I have a 2008 Scag Tiger Cub that originally had a 26 Briggs ELS/Intek engine. It started giving me problems in the fall of 2012 and in spring of 2013, I replaced it with a 30 Briggs Commercial Turf Series engine as it was an easy changeover, same cables, wiring and muffler.
This engine now has 200 hours on it and has been a great engine. The changes and upgrades that Briggs did on these engines has made them top performers in my opinion. The aluminum intake manifold, increased flow cooling system, engine oil cooler, Cyclonic Air Filtration System and internal changes are the high points of these engines. I particularly like the Cyclonic Air Filtration System as I use a collection system about 90% of the time which increases the dust around the engine to unbelievable levels. Zero Turn machines create lots of dust just by their design, so good air filtration on the engine is important and critical with collection systems.
The only Kawasaki engine that I would consider is an FX model which has the HD two stage Donaldson type air filtration system, I wouldn't bother with Kawasaki FS or FR model engine options as they have the standard Kawasaki air filters.
I also have a 2012 Hustler X-ONE Kawasaki FX730V powered, so I'm able to do a fairly good comparison, no doubt the FX engine is a sweet running engine.
I like the design of Ferris machines as they have some suspension to them where as the majority on ZTRs have ridged frames.
Just some thoughts from
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

Thank you for that. :thumbsup:

I'll take this opportunity for my first post on the forum :smile:

My dealer said the same thing about the Commercial Turf engine as yours did. They actually prefer it over the Kawi engines. The two key's is to engine longevity is keep to keep the air filter clean and keep good oil in it. I change oil a little bit before it's time, and it sounds like B&S adressed the air filter cleanliness with the cyclonic filter. The dealer said he has been surprised at how clean the filters when people bring their mowers in for service, even at 200 hours. I have a no-name engine on a Menards push mower that I beat up pretty bad. I never let the oil get black, and the little trooper never fails me, even at 90 degrees in 2' tall weeds!

I purchased an IS700 in December, so I will have more insight later this year!

The air cleaners on all B & S engines are crap and have been so for the last 20 years since the old Power Builts when they abandoned the bolt down filters.
Honda have finally made their push mowers as good as 1958 Victa's by finally fitting a snorkel so it sucks clean air from the top of the handle bars, but only on commercial mowers and at the same time withdrawing the snorkel kits for all earlier models. We are looking at getting these made as aftermarket accessories again because I care about my customers more than my bottom line which funny enough is fattening my bottom line.

Fitting a Donaldson filter ( two cylinders cyclonic type ) makes an unbelieviable difference. The very large surface area means the air velocity is very low so dust falls out very easily and your engine sucks very clean air.
They will be 1/2 the price if bought as a kit from a filter shop than as a branded product from a mower shop. Buy 3 outers my commercial customers go through 1 outer every 1 to 2 years and some have been running the same inner for better then 4 years because the filter is so effective and again the induction tube is higher up and away from the dust stirred up by the mower.

All ZTRs are dusty, some more than others and more when a collection system is installed.
Donaldson air filters are good providing they are original equipment by the engine manufacturer.
The few Donaldson air filters that I have seen that were installed as an accessory caused the engines to run an excessively rich fuel mixture.
Every engine manufacturer that installs them that I have looked at the parts manuals of, changes the jetting and or carbs to accommodate the Donaldson air filters restriction of airflow, check out the Kawasaki FS730V and the FX730V for example.
Donaldson designs and manufactures many of the small engine air filtering systems, the Cyclonic Air Filtration System used on Briggs Commercial Turf Series engines for an example.

bertsmobile1 said:

The air cleaners on all B & S engines are crap and have been so for the last 20 years since the old Power Builts when they abandoned the bolt down filters.

Click to expand...

Which is why Briggs designed the cyclonic air filter system. The mechanic at my Ferris dealer said he couldn't believe how well the filter worked. He changed several of them because the customer requested it even though they didn't need changed.

I hope people realize that clean air filters are as important as clean oil. Dirty air filters cause carbureted engines to run rich, which causes gas to get into the oil, which causes the oil to thin out and break down, which causes less lubrication and more heat.....you get the picture :biggrin:

Here's a video from Briggs explaining their Commercial Turf filter system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHB569yZsEc

Seriously, clean air, clean fuel, and clean oil are the keys to long enging life. You just can't get around it.

Mad Mackie said:

All ZTRs are dusty, some more than others and more when a collection system is installed.
Donaldson air filters are good providing they are original equipment by the engine manufacturer.
The few Donaldson air filters that I have seen that were installed as an accessory caused the engines to run an excessively rich fuel mixture.
Every engine manufacturer that installs them that I have looked at the parts manuals of, changes the jetting and or carbs to accommodate the Donaldson air filters restriction of airflow, check out the Kawasaki FS730V and the FX730V for example.
Donaldson designs and manufactures many of the small engine air filtering systems, the Cyclonic Air Filtration System used on Briggs Commercial Turf Series engines for an example.

Click to expand...

No argument from me about that been playing with motorcycles for 50 years, better filters = smaller main jets regardless of weather thay are Donaldson or K & N or just an oily rag.
If you buy an aftermarket kit through Donaldson down here it comes with a jetting chart.
If you buy it from a mower shop with a mower company's name on the outside of the bag it costs 2 to 3 times as much with no jetting chart.
And they reckon we don't take care of or appreciate their products, right.
Honda originally used the excuse of rich running damage to withdraw the snorkel kit they used to supply.
Now they claim inability to comply with EPA regulations as the excuse to keep them off the shelf.
One would have thought that for $ 120 they could manage to include a new $ 5.oo main jet but they don't.
Oddly enough the snorkel set up fitted to a Victa costs $ 45.oo to replace.

I'll take the FX Kawi 730 in my ZTR over the POS B&S Pro Series "oil burner" that I had in my Simplicity.

Well worth the money....don't be penny wise and dollar foolish!

1striper1 said:

I'll take the FX Kawi 730 in my ZTR over the POS B&S Pro Series "oil burner" that I had in my Simplicity.

Well worth the money....don't be penny wise and dollar foolish!

Click to expand...

Not making a fair comparison of engines there. B&S has an engine that is every bit as good as the fx series Kawi. It's called the vanguard. The commercial turf series B&S is comparable to the fs series Kawi. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Comparing the fx series to the pro series briggs would be like comparing the fr series Kawi to the vanguard. Btw, I am also a fan of Kawi engines. I would be just as happy with the vanguard on my mower though

Shughes717 said:

B&S has an engine that is every bit as good as the fx series Kawi. It's called the vanguard. . Comparing the fx series to the pro series briggs would be like comparing the fr series Kawi to the vanguard. I would be just as happy with the vanguard on my mower though

Click to expand...

I have a 1998 Toro Proline 44 with a 16hp Vanguard engine. It is one of the best small engines I have ever owned. It takes a long time for the oil to start to darken, which, according to a mechanic friend, means the rings are still very close to "new" tolerances. That little motor has been quite a trooper....it has mowed a LOT of acres since I have had it. Besides that, it is quiet and smooth. The key is, though, I never let the oil go too long. I change it early when I can. Now I am anxious to see how many thousands of hours I can squeeze out of the new Commercial Turf engine on the 700Z I just bought Briggs is really talking this motor up quite a bit.

rmccutchan said:

I have a 1998 Toro Proline 44 with a 16hp Vanguard engine. It is one of the best small engines I have ever owned. It takes a long time for the oil to start to darken, which, according to a mechanic friend, means the rings are still very close to "new" tolerances. That little motor has been quite a trooper....it has mowed a LOT of acres since I have had it. Besides that, it is quiet and smooth. The key is, though, I never let the oil go too long. I change it early when I can. Now I am anxious to see how many thousands of hours I can squeeze out of the new Commercial Turf engine on the 700Z I just bought Briggs is really talking this motor up quite a bit.

Click to expand...

Being a bit of a cininc I rather think B & S are feeling the cold wind of China blowing up their trouser legs.
Husqvarna & Stihl both joint partnership factories in China pumping out 1/2 decent chainsaws & trimmers and from there is it only a short hop to push mower engines then ride on engines.
So things that used to be good enough a few years back are not good enough any more.
The EPA is also sniffing around their back sides which is not making things any easier to boot.
Honda had the reputation for being the best quality but too dear, Kohler the best value for money and Briggs took up Tecumseh's spot as the most cost efficient.
now there is a flood of wing wang wong engines ripping market share off B & S in occasional use stuff like log splitters .
So Briggs need to do more than play on the patriotism of the population and it looks like the cyclone is going to be the launch pad to convince the market that a B &S powered impliment is better value than the China powered implement at 1/2 the price.
However as the big box stores have shown conclusively the pocket is more important than the patriot and 99% of the populatin can not tell poo from perfection if the poo is shiny enough.

And it is even harder to convince John Q Public that the Briggs, Kohler, Honda engine is better than the china engine when they are also assembled in China. 10 years ago MTD after Briggs purchased Tecumseh, went to China and now most of the engines used on MTD products, be it Yardman, Cub Cadet, or Troybilt are now made at the MTD controlled plant in China.

according to studies the most OEM small engine manufacturers claim a 1% failure rate on their engines. MTD is claiming 1/2% failure on there Chinese manufactured engine.