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Is the Toro Z master G3 a good model?
#1
Y
yawg
Y
yawg
Hi all, I saw a Toro Z master G3 for sale in neighborhood. 72inch deck, 1400hrs, sign lists for $3900. Looks in decent shape. Kawazaki engine, air cooled, not sure which one and how much HP.
This would be for my farm, I'm mostly looking for cutting speed, doesn't need to look manicured.
What is the consensus on those, decent machines?
What are they comparable to? Maybe deere Z930, Scag Cheetah?
Is $3900 a fair price?
This would be for my farm, I'm mostly looking for cutting speed, doesn't need to look manicured.
What is the consensus on those, decent machines?
What are they comparable to? Maybe deere Z930, Scag Cheetah?
Is $3900 a fair price?
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Z-Master says it all
This was Toros entry level commercial mower
Got 2 in my run
On both I have bypassed the hour meter which also doubles as the Engine management & interlock module as they have both failed & replacements are $$$$$
The wiring on both has rotted away at the terminals which you will not be able to see unless you remove the dash panel.
I had to modify all 3 spindle housings on both as there is no positive location for the bottom bearing by making up a spacer for the outer race
And as they use open bearings you will need to replace both grease seals when you do the bearings.
Apart from that they are doing well, both would have at least 4000 hours on them by now .
If you buy it then make cure you do an oil & filter change on the hydros.
The one I have serviced from new was fine but the one that had been dealer serviced looks like was still running the original oil & filters as it was about the consistancy of 00 grade grease
One needed to have both brakes replaced as the housings failed but I rather think that is because it gets chained down hard in the trailer
Apart from that they both get used 6 days a week and do enough hours for 2 services a year and have been as reliable as any other mower.
People seem to think that commercial mowers being used residentially will run for ever without being touched but in reality the opposite is true.
Commercial mowers ge service like clockwork of they will be as bad ad residential mowers
Most need a lot more maintenance than residentials so be prepared to do proper servicing.
The owners manual is quite good & Toro hove both the parts manual and the service manual as a free download on their web page.
It should eat 6 acres for breakfast .
Down here the Z masters come with FX kawakasi engines or 7000 series kohlers and both are fitted with Donaldson canister air filters
This was Toros entry level commercial mower
Got 2 in my run
On both I have bypassed the hour meter which also doubles as the Engine management & interlock module as they have both failed & replacements are $$$$$
The wiring on both has rotted away at the terminals which you will not be able to see unless you remove the dash panel.
I had to modify all 3 spindle housings on both as there is no positive location for the bottom bearing by making up a spacer for the outer race
And as they use open bearings you will need to replace both grease seals when you do the bearings.
Apart from that they are doing well, both would have at least 4000 hours on them by now .
If you buy it then make cure you do an oil & filter change on the hydros.
The one I have serviced from new was fine but the one that had been dealer serviced looks like was still running the original oil & filters as it was about the consistancy of 00 grade grease
One needed to have both brakes replaced as the housings failed but I rather think that is because it gets chained down hard in the trailer
Apart from that they both get used 6 days a week and do enough hours for 2 services a year and have been as reliable as any other mower.
People seem to think that commercial mowers being used residentially will run for ever without being touched but in reality the opposite is true.
Commercial mowers ge service like clockwork of they will be as bad ad residential mowers
Most need a lot more maintenance than residentials so be prepared to do proper servicing.
The owners manual is quite good & Toro hove both the parts manual and the service manual as a free download on their web page.
It should eat 6 acres for breakfast .
Down here the Z masters come with FX kawakasi engines or 7000 series kohlers and both are fitted with Donaldson canister air filters
#3
Y
yawg
Any idea if I can negotiate the price down from $3900, or is it already priced quite fairly?
Y
yawg
This is very helpful, thanks for sharing. It makes me think this mower is somewhere between the Z700 and Z900 series from deere, is that right?Z-Master says it all
This was Toros entry level commercial mower
Got 2 in my run
On both I have bypassed the hour meter which also doubles as the Engine management & interlock module as they have both failed & replacements are $$$$$
The wiring on both has rotted away at the terminals which you will not be able to see unless you remove the dash panel.
I had to modify all 3 spindle housings on both as there is no positive location for the bottom bearing by making up a spacer for the outer race
And as they use open bearings you will need to replace both grease seals when you do the bearings.
Apart from that they are doing well, both would have at least 4000 hours on them by now .
If you buy it then make cure you do an oil & filter change on the hydros.
The one I have serviced from new was fine but the one that had been dealer serviced looks like was still running the original oil & filters as it was about the consistancy of 00 grade grease
One needed to have both brakes replaced as the housings failed but I rather think that is because it gets chained down hard in the trailer
Apart from that they both get used 6 days a week and do enough hours for 2 services a year and have been as reliable as any other mower.
People seem to think that commercial mowers being used residentially will run for ever without being touched but in reality the opposite is true.
Commercial mowers ge service like clockwork of they will be as bad ad residential mowers
Most need a lot more maintenance than residentials so be prepared to do proper servicing.
The owners manual is quite good & Toro hove both the parts manual and the service manual as a free download on their web page.
It should eat 6 acres for breakfast .
Down here the Z masters come with FX kawakasi engines or 7000 series kohlers and both are fitted with Donaldson canister air filters
Any idea if I can negotiate the price down from $3900, or is it already priced quite fairly?
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You are in the USA & I am in Australia so I have no idea about used mower prices over there .
#5
Y
yawg
I looked at the ZMaster G3 in person and saw a few things that might or might not be of concern. Would you be able to comment on those?
edit: it has the FX921V Kawasaki 31hp
- intermittent whine coming from somwhere in front of the engine (in between the hydros and engine I think). Could only it hear at lowish rpm.
- both hydros were covered in a layer of fine grass stuck to oil, from top to bottom. Did your hydros look the same?
- front cylinder had 107psi compression, back cylinder 120psi. Dried oil on the valve cover of front cylinder. Engine idled at quite low rpm when cold, then higher idlewhen warm. Occasional missfire (every 15-30 sec or so?) at low rpm when warm. I opened the oil fill cap at idle and it may had a slight bit of blow by but not excessive. Maybe a valve not well adjusted, or a slightly worn cam?
- White smoke and gas in exhaust for the first 5-10 min but that might have been because it was not run much since winter. Cleared up afterwards. The mower did not seem to lack power but with 31hp I am not sure my non-knowledgeable self would notice.
Any of those seem like a concern to you? Appreciate your advice.
Y
yawg
Thanks so much for your previous help. I now believe the G3 is quite well priced (seller told me $3500 delivered)You are in the USA & I am in Australia so I have no idea about used mower prices over there .
I looked at the ZMaster G3 in person and saw a few things that might or might not be of concern. Would you be able to comment on those?
edit: it has the FX921V Kawasaki 31hp
- intermittent whine coming from somwhere in front of the engine (in between the hydros and engine I think). Could only it hear at lowish rpm.
- both hydros were covered in a layer of fine grass stuck to oil, from top to bottom. Did your hydros look the same?
- front cylinder had 107psi compression, back cylinder 120psi. Dried oil on the valve cover of front cylinder. Engine idled at quite low rpm when cold, then higher idlewhen warm. Occasional missfire (every 15-30 sec or so?) at low rpm when warm. I opened the oil fill cap at idle and it may had a slight bit of blow by but not excessive. Maybe a valve not well adjusted, or a slightly worn cam?
- White smoke and gas in exhaust for the first 5-10 min but that might have been because it was not run much since winter. Cleared up afterwards. The mower did not seem to lack power but with 31hp I am not sure my non-knowledgeable self would notice.
Any of those seem like a concern to you? Appreciate your advice.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Whine is most likely the transmission idler pulley.
The whine you need to worry about comes from the hydros when they are under load
PIA to replace but not difficult if you can get the mower high enough.
Cylinder compressions are a waste of time as they will be affected by valve lash, cam wear & ACR if one is present.
Crankcase will always blow while engine is running
You need to open it a minute after the engine stops
Grey/white smoke is a sign of a blown head gasket
White smoke in exhaust at start up can be water in the fuel or a leaking valve stem seal on the inlet allowing oil to enter the engine when it is not running
It can also be a blown head gasket ( Easy fix )
The whine you need to worry about comes from the hydros when they are under load
PIA to replace but not difficult if you can get the mower high enough.
Cylinder compressions are a waste of time as they will be affected by valve lash, cam wear & ACR if one is present.
Crankcase will always blow while engine is running
You need to open it a minute after the engine stops
Grey/white smoke is a sign of a blown head gasket
White smoke in exhaust at start up can be water in the fuel or a leaking valve stem seal on the inlet allowing oil to enter the engine when it is not running
It can also be a blown head gasket ( Easy fix )
#7
Y
yawg
I am pulling the trigger on the G3! I believe the head gasket is fine (smoke stopped) and the cylinders are good (not excessive blow by). Seems anything that comes up would not be hard to fix. Those machines are fairly simple after all.
Y
yawg
You seem very knowledgeable, thanks for taking the time to reply and share.Whine is most likely the transmission idler pulley.
The whine you need to worry about comes from the hydros when they are under load
PIA to replace but not difficult if you can get the mower high enough.
Cylinder compressions are a waste of time as they will be affected by valve lash, cam wear & ACR if one is present.
Crankcase will always blow while engine is running
You need to open it a minute after the engine stops
Grey/white smoke is a sign of a blown head gasket
White smoke in exhaust at start up can be water in the fuel or a leaking valve stem seal on the inlet allowing oil to enter the engine when it is not running
It can also be a blown head gasket ( Easy fix )
I am pulling the trigger on the G3! I believe the head gasket is fine (smoke stopped) and the cylinders are good (not excessive blow by). Seems anything that comes up would not be hard to fix. Those machines are fairly simple after all.
#8
Y
yawg
I shot a couple videos of the whine sound. It believe now that its coming from the engine. Would you have any idea what might be the issue?
EDIT: the idler pulley has a bunch of play, likely the culprit. Your guess on the idler pulley was pretty good. I'll have to find the size and swap it, looks like an easy fix.
youtube.com
Y
yawg
I have the G3 in my garage, fixing it up.Whine is most likely the transmission idler pulley.
The whine you need to worry about comes from the hydros when they are under load
PIA to replace but not difficult if you can get the mower high enough.
Cylinder compressions are a waste of time as they will be affected by valve lash, cam wear & ACR if one is present.
Crankcase will always blow while engine is running
You need to open it a minute after the engine stops
Grey/white smoke is a sign of a blown head gasket
White smoke in exhaust at start up can be water in the fuel or a leaking valve stem seal on the inlet allowing oil to enter the engine when it is not running
It can also be a blown head gasket ( Easy fix )
I shot a couple videos of the whine sound. It believe now that its coming from the engine. Would you have any idea what might be the issue?
EDIT: the idler pulley has a bunch of play, likely the culprit. Your guess on the idler pulley was pretty good. I'll have to find the size and swap it, looks like an easy fix.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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#9
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Take the hydro belt off , whine goes away = bad idler
No joy then pull the PTO clutch off , whine goes away = bad bearing in the clutch .
No joy then pull the PTO clutch off , whine goes away = bad bearing in the clutch .
#10
Y
yawg
Now off to find bearing part numbers, the parts manual only lists the clutch as a kit. Might have to pull it off and pull the bearings out to see what is written on them.
I ordered some Amsoil 20W50 synthetic Hydro fluid and filters. Do you happen to know how to do a hydro fluid system flush on those machines? I don't want to just change whatever is in the reservoir, but the full 1.5L on each side.
Thanks so much for your great help as always.
EDIT: I can't find my model number and information on my mower, I looked under the seat, around the arms and elsewhere as shown on Toro website, any idea where the sticker should be?
Y
yawg
No joy on the idler, its the clutch bearing(s). Had to take off the PTO belt so I could hear the difference over the roaring of the blades.Take the hydro belt off , whine goes away = bad idler
No joy then pull the PTO clutch off , whine goes away = bad bearing in the clutch .
Now off to find bearing part numbers, the parts manual only lists the clutch as a kit. Might have to pull it off and pull the bearings out to see what is written on them.
I ordered some Amsoil 20W50 synthetic Hydro fluid and filters. Do you happen to know how to do a hydro fluid system flush on those machines? I don't want to just change whatever is in the reservoir, but the full 1.5L on each side.
Thanks so much for your great help as always.
EDIT: I can't find my model number and information on my mower, I looked under the seat, around the arms and elsewhere as shown on Toro website, any idea where the sticker should be?
#11
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
On the frame between the engine & the fuel tank / seat depending upon the model
Clutch bearings are not replaceable so it is new clutch time .
They are also not cheap
start a new thread about "need a replacement toro Time-master clutch "
You should get a lot of good information
When you take it off double check that it has been assembled correctly
Down here they all have Warner clutches fitted and on Warners ( don't know about others ) you can fit them with the rotor on the wrong side of the brake magnets .
And FWIW I use a long stud when fitting electric clutches to take the weight while I align the key ways
Some times I luck them strait away the other 99% it isa 20 minute battle to get them on .
Polish the PTO shaft and apply some copper anti seize .
On some you can grind away the bearing retaining tabs, fir a new bearing then MIG a couple of dabs back on to hold it in place .
As a workshop I do not do this but I do have a few clutches sitting in the "might get repaired box ".
Again a few You Tube vids with bods showing it being done , but you need to be a dab hand with the welder so you don't cook the dust seals in the bearing
If you are lucky you might be able to pop the seals , clean out the old grease & put some fresh Bentonite ( brown stuff that stinks ) grease in there but don't overdo it because the balls have to roll in the race not slide over them.
Clutch bearings are not replaceable so it is new clutch time .
They are also not cheap
start a new thread about "need a replacement toro Time-master clutch "
You should get a lot of good information
When you take it off double check that it has been assembled correctly
Down here they all have Warner clutches fitted and on Warners ( don't know about others ) you can fit them with the rotor on the wrong side of the brake magnets .
And FWIW I use a long stud when fitting electric clutches to take the weight while I align the key ways
Some times I luck them strait away the other 99% it isa 20 minute battle to get them on .
Polish the PTO shaft and apply some copper anti seize .
On some you can grind away the bearing retaining tabs, fir a new bearing then MIG a couple of dabs back on to hold it in place .
As a workshop I do not do this but I do have a few clutches sitting in the "might get repaired box ".
Again a few You Tube vids with bods showing it being done , but you need to be a dab hand with the welder so you don't cook the dust seals in the bearing
If you are lucky you might be able to pop the seals , clean out the old grease & put some fresh Bentonite ( brown stuff that stinks ) grease in there but don't overdo it because the balls have to roll in the race not slide over them.
#12
Y
yawg
Y
yawg
Here are the answers to the questions I asked if anyone else ever reads this.
Almost all hydro fluid comes out when taking out the filters. No need for a flush.
Bearings for PTO are 6208 and 6008. I bought them with 2RS seals. Had to grind the retaining tabs on the clutch to take them out, and just hammered back some new tabs in after new bearings were in. Easy job. My engineering background tells me that those tabs don't do a whole lot mechanically (no force act against them), they just keeps everything from wobbling off. Would probably be OK without any tabs anyway.
One of the spindle was loose, turns out the previous owner had messed with it, and seemed to have mix-matched the spacers (which come as a matched set of specced length) so the preload on the tapered bearing was incorrect. I had to get inventive to get it working.
The engine really lagged behind after I finished all the maintenance, turns out it was running on 1 cylinder only. There was spark to the other cylinder but it shocked me a lot less than the good one. Swapped coils between #1 and #2 and suddenly the other cylinder wasn't running, so it was a bad coil. Changed the coil and it now runs to spec.
I put in 5W30 synthetic but I hear those air cooled engine like the added zinc content which diesel oils have so I'll switch over to my diesel oil 15w40 when I can.
edit: Just saw your answer bertsmobile1, as it was hidden in page 2. Got it done but it would have been easier with your tips for sure. My arms were a bit sore after taking the clutch on and off a few times for double checks haha.
Almost all hydro fluid comes out when taking out the filters. No need for a flush.
Bearings for PTO are 6208 and 6008. I bought them with 2RS seals. Had to grind the retaining tabs on the clutch to take them out, and just hammered back some new tabs in after new bearings were in. Easy job. My engineering background tells me that those tabs don't do a whole lot mechanically (no force act against them), they just keeps everything from wobbling off. Would probably be OK without any tabs anyway.
One of the spindle was loose, turns out the previous owner had messed with it, and seemed to have mix-matched the spacers (which come as a matched set of specced length) so the preload on the tapered bearing was incorrect. I had to get inventive to get it working.
The engine really lagged behind after I finished all the maintenance, turns out it was running on 1 cylinder only. There was spark to the other cylinder but it shocked me a lot less than the good one. Swapped coils between #1 and #2 and suddenly the other cylinder wasn't running, so it was a bad coil. Changed the coil and it now runs to spec.
I put in 5W30 synthetic but I hear those air cooled engine like the added zinc content which diesel oils have so I'll switch over to my diesel oil 15w40 when I can.
edit: Just saw your answer bertsmobile1, as it was hidden in page 2. Got it done but it would have been easier with your tips for sure. My arms were a bit sore after taking the clutch on and off a few times for double checks haha.
#13
H
haydencampbell
H
haydencampbell
The Toro Z Master G3 is generally considered to be a reliable and high-performance commercial zero-turn mower. With a 72-inch deck and 1400 hours of use, it seems like a good fit for your farm needs. The Kawasaki engine is also a trusted brand known for its durability.
In terms of comparisons to other brands, the John Deere Z930 and Scag Cheetah are both also highly regarded in the commercial mower market. Each brand has its own strengths and weaknesses, so it's important to consider your specific needs and preferences.
As for the price, it's difficult to determine whether $3900 is a fair price without knowing more details about the mower's condition and history. It's always a good idea to inspect the machine thoroughly and ask the seller for maintenance records before making a purchase.
Overall, the Toro Z Master G3 has a good reputation and could be a solid option for your farm. Just be sure to do your due diligence before making a purchase.
In terms of comparisons to other brands, the John Deere Z930 and Scag Cheetah are both also highly regarded in the commercial mower market. Each brand has its own strengths and weaknesses, so it's important to consider your specific needs and preferences.
As for the price, it's difficult to determine whether $3900 is a fair price without knowing more details about the mower's condition and history. It's always a good idea to inspect the machine thoroughly and ask the seller for maintenance records before making a purchase.
Overall, the Toro Z Master G3 has a good reputation and could be a solid option for your farm. Just be sure to do your due diligence before making a purchase.
#14
Y
yawg
Y
yawg
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I bought it a few months ago already for $3600 delivered. I knew there was something iffy with the engine, so the "due diligence" was not passed with flying colors, but I figured anything wrong would be likely easily fixed (which it was - bad coil). I had a bunch of other little things to fix too but I didn't mind, and it should be a strong mower for a very affordable price. The grass better watch out now!The Toro Z Master G3 is generally considered to be a reliable and high-performance commercial zero-turn mower. With a 72-inch deck and 1400 hours of use, it seems like a good fit for your farm needs. The Kawasaki engine is also a trusted brand known for its durability.
In terms of comparisons to other brands, the John Deere Z930 and Scag Cheetah are both also highly regarded in the commercial mower market. Each brand has its own strengths and weaknesses, so it's important to consider your specific needs and preferences.
As for the price, it's difficult to determine whether $3900 is a fair price without knowing more details about the mower's condition and history. It's always a good idea to inspect the machine thoroughly and ask the seller for maintenance records before making a purchase.
Overall, the Toro Z Master G3 has a good reputation and could be a solid option for your farm. Just be sure to do your due diligence before making a purchase.