Is electric the way to go now?

[choocoo johnson]

BOTH have advantages. Locomotives are powered by electric traction motors because electric motors can generate more torque. Locomotives get the electrical power generation to the electric traction motor from 4500 hp diesel engines. In essence, these are hybrids, and have been for over SEVENTY years and counting. Both types of power are needed for pulling the amount tonnage the railroads needed. The latest locos carry 5300 gallons of diesel fuel to generate the electricity to drive these monstrous electrical motors which move and astronomical number and amount of supplies across the country, from consumer goods to raw materials, to large artillery, and even large air and space elements. The railroad still is a very efficient means of bulk transportation.

Today's electric motors are much improved - my model trains are running digital compared to my old ones in the 1960's, 70's and can run much smoother due to nanotechnology and improved windings. Again, the engines still need a source of electrification to drive the motors. The issue today is finding a good, effective, reliable energy sources to produce electrification. We take for granted the number of capacitors (over 700 in your cell phone), which is commonly used to store short bursts of electricity. Your car radio clock and radio settings store all information and time using capacitors when the engine is off, as do many electrical and electronic devices we use everyday. Same for your pc to store data in memory while your pc is not in use or asleep when not plugged up and the battery runs down (or more importantly). Capacitors have improved, and these are always in high demand worldwide to the point where even before the pandemic supply was very tight, and everyone wants more fancy appliances everywhere in the home for washing, sweeping, lighting, doorbells, and trickling down to lawn care products, using bluetooth. Commercially, I don't see contractors using electrical tethered tools as much as I used to, opting for the battery versions for which brushless motors have added battery life, improved torque, and even reduced weight significantly. The Saturn EV1 in the 1990's, while with its mere range of 75 miles with conventional batteries, was still a beast to drive with its high torque motors. These dedicated electric vehicles with electric motors and tranny's need fewer parts compared to conventional gas/diesels. I have been driving electric golf carts for at least 50 years with no issues.

Bottom line - I love both electric motors and diesel engines, but I want quick, simpler sources to drive the electrics. At the same time, I want the benefit of fewer, simpler things to work on (not a Tier 4 EPA gasper with a multitude of electronics and valves manipulating fuel/air/exhaust input/output). I am not even discussing the political side of it - not going there - only comparing the benefits and downsides of each energy/drive based on where we are at today. Life is tough.

 

[smhardesty]

You are 100% correct. We have a bunch of America haters in DC. They are destroying this country one day at a time. Remember how good this country was doing under Trump? If we don't stop Biden & his clown show all of us will be living under the CCP if we already aren't. Remember when gasoline was $1.86 a gallon? The country was booming like never before under Trump. I don't care if you hate the man the numbers don't lie. The 2020 election was rigged and the Green Deal is being shoved down our throats. Sorry if this was too political.

You have stated facts, for certain. I'm neither Republican nor Democrat, but I can see a huge difference in this country now versus when Trump was in office. My retirement dollars don't go anywhere near as far now as when he was in office. You're right. Hate the man or love him, this country was better then than now. And there isn't anyone anywhere that can dispute that. The one thing I have really noticed is that there just aren't any posts on Facebook or any forum I visit about what a great job Biden is doing. None. So, where are all those Democrats that were telling the whole world how great the man was and what a great job he would do if elected? There seems to be a definite shortage of those folks out there. Don't get me wrong. I'm no Trump fan. He never delivered on his promises regarding gun laws in this country. He campoaigned on that, but feel WAY short of his

 

[Gregyver]

I've been seeing more and more battery powered mowers and trimmers in my neck of the woods. I just got a a Stihl chainsaw in to prep for sale by the owner. He told me he has switched his mower, trimmer, blower, and hedge trimmers to battery powered devices already and plans to buy a small, battery powered chainsaw as soon as he sells this Stihl.

So, is that something we should all be looking to add to our regular repairs? Should we be stocking a couple of battery powered mowers? And my big question is, should we be learning to repair these things? I'm just getting my little repair business going and I'm wondering what the near future holds. Then, if we should be considering learning how to repair this type of equipment, where do we find courses?

Actually, I have been referring to "we" and the truth us I really mean me. LOL! Are there any repair courses available now? I'd be interested in an online course or a good, old fashioned, book type course. If anybody knows of one, or more, I'd be grateful for the info.

I've been working on EGO equipment for a couple years now along with some Toro battery powered stuff. My forte is gas engines but I knew I had to learn battery powered equipment because no matter what my personal feelings are about battery powered equipment, they are here to stay and you will have to contend with them to remain profitable. However, there is no way in the world that battery powered equipment can replace all gas powered equipment so there will always be a need for old school mechanics. That being said, my personal feelings will prevent me from ever buying a battery powered lawnmower or snow blower. I have discovered something about battery powered lawn mowers and snow blowers that will blow your mind. They have an inherent problem that cannot be overcome. If you stop the blade of a mower or the auger of a snow blower while they are in motion, an over current event will happen that will blow right past the fuses and fry a circuit board and there is nothing that can be done to prevent it from happening. Nonetheless, training for the future is a must. You could contact companies such as MEDART or Power Distributors and see if they are currently hosting any workshops on battery powered equipment. STIHL provides training for people that are already employed by a STIHL distributor. Maybe they could provide you with some insight regarding training. There are other resources available. I will make another post a little later today with some additional information.

 

[smhardesty]

It's true that they are more harmful to the environment in their initial build due to the mining and manufacturing processes. But just like the Tesla and other EVs, they will overcome that pollution index # over time, they say a Tesla will cross that border around 50-60,000 miles. Battery technology is still too expensive for most and they hate the heat.
That said, I bought an Ego 18" electric chainsaw and that thing is a monster, nothing stops it, really surprised and happy with that compared to the standard 18" gas one's I've owned in the past.
The John Deere Z370R ET (electric tractor) will certainly be a topic once it's officially available, they are taking pre-orders now but they claim it can run for 2 hours on a charge. At $6,400, it should make me breakfast and make my bed but I'm eager to see one in person. You can feel good that the batteries also come with a 5 year warranty, but I can't find out how much the replacements will cost, but by then they'll be a lot cheaper.

You also have to consider the fact that the batteries aren't guaranteed to last 5 years and will be rpelaced for free during that 5 year period. They will be prorated, just like any other battery sold for ICE equipment. There is no way any company is going to do a full, free replacement of batteries for the entire 5 year period. So, if your batteries die at the start of the 4th year, you're going to pay a sizable chunk of change to get new batteries installed. If there is any evidence that a company is going to do a full, free replacement for a given period of time like 5 years, I haven't seen it.

 

[hallm]

Here’s my problem, as a residential home owner. I have a B&D corded mower that is easily 30 plus years old. I have dragged the outer covering off of two 50” extension cords while I have owned it. The front wheels are void of any tread and the rears only have a little remaining. The protective toe guard fell off 15 years ago. It’s on its second motor fan assembly and cutting blade with a spare blade still hanging in my shop.

All my neighbours around me have switched over to battery powered mowers ranging from Stihls down to the cheap chinese mowers. All of them like their battery mowers, even the cheap ones. I am amazed at how well they all cut, even in the tall, not-mowed-offten grass.

My problem is not ditching the ICE issue so much as I would love to cut the extension cord. Every time my mower needs a repair, I fix it. I have my eye on a Stihl battery mower but I can’t bring myself to toss my corded B&D because I can fix it and it keeps on cutting so why toss something that still works???

This mower just might outlast me!

 

[smhardesty]

Look at it this way...you see mowers many decades old still being used that are gas. With electric, we all know manufacturers will 'obsolete' the batteries after the machines are just a few years old. Its happening with power tools. And those cheap 'replacement' batteries you get on the internet aren't worth crap. They use the lowest quality cells in those.

Bottom line, your battery powered equipment really is throw-away after not so many years.

There you go. That's very true. None of the battery powered OPE is going to last 10 to 20 years like the ICE OPE does. It just won't happen. I read on another forum a heated debate between a couple of guys arguing about EVs becoming obsolete after a period of 10 to 12 years. The guy stating that they would had some very convincing evidence that it may be true. I'd sure hate to pay $60,000 to $100,000 for an EV and find out that after 10 or 12 years it's obsolete. I can't afford to go through that kind of money every 10 years.

 

[smhardesty]

Batteries seem to be the wave of the future, at least for now. I've been considering slowly changing my equipment over but I'm waiting for two things, first, the old equipment to wear out to the point I no longer want to, or can, repair it. Second, I would like to see some improvement in battery technology to make them last longer, both between charges and their entire life cycle. Also, I'll let "the dust settle" to weed out which manufacturers will still be around to support their products in the future. I've had a few small battery operated tools for which I was unable to find replacement batteries once the originals ran out.

The other issue is cost. Often, the cost of a new battery is nearly as much as, or more than, the cost of an entire new tool. This makes no sense to me. It's not economically efficient for the customer, and certainly not a good deal overall for environmental concerns.

I'm of the same mindset. I bought a new Craftsman lawn tractor 3 years ago. Every winter I pull the hood off, pull the deck out, do a complete service on the tractor, clean the underside of the deck so there isn't a single speck of dirt or grass, then apply two coats of primer and usually 2 or 3 coats of good, enamel paint, then apply a couple of coats of heavy duty metal protector to it. The rest of the tractor gets hand washed, then all metal parts waxed and all plastic or rubber parts get tow does of Armor ALL. If I see ANYTHING that looks like it is worn or bent, it gets replaced. I don't expect to buy another one in my lifetime.

As for the ridiculous cost of the batteries, you're dead right. In nearly all cases, the replacement battery or batteries will be considerably more than the cost of a whole new device with new batteries. They don't expect or want you to keep any battery powered OPE for more than a few years. They know the equipment won't hold up for years and years so they intentionally price batteries so you'll just buy a new device. It's exactly the same thing as printers for computers. You can buy a new printer for what the ink cartridges cost. They don't want you to keep the same printer for 20, or even 10 years. They want to sell more printers. I'd hate to think of how many different make and model of printers that have been tossed in the garbage only because the new cartridges cost more than a new printer, or that the cartridges are just no longer available. I'll bet I have tossed as many as 12 to 15 away.

 

[TobyU]

Ok... Let me stirr the pot.... Most of the people here that's against the electric stuff has no idea....
You are not doing your research.... Electric going to win....
I'll start by saying that I have over 50 gas tractors and I love them.
But I also have electric. I love them even more.
Lets talk about batteries. Do your research... Look up Solid state batteries . No joke....
These batteries are made from sodium and sand. No hurting the environment here.
Battery was tested in a car and went from the east coast of USA to the west coast 3 times on one charge. I could tell you a lot about this battery but I'll just let you all do your own research.
Some here say when the electric stuff gets old it will be junk. My 1972 Wheelhorse electric tractor is still working great. I have family that just bought a Tesla car. They drove from Florida to Pa on one charge.
I just bought a Fucare Ebike and I got 160 miles on it so far and it's working great. Costing me
8 cents to ride 40 miles with me not helping pedal. I have bothe an electric chainsaw and a weed eater.
Both working great. Let me say I do hate all lithium batteries. Time bombs I call them. But when this
Solid state battery hits the market watch out. Just look how far electric fork lift trucks have come.

But this is kind of like best case scenario and not what the average person is going to experience not right now in the very near future.
I've covered all this before and I cover it with facts not personal preferences.
Personal preference wise, I hate most battery-powered things but not all.
I switched over to battery powered drills in the mid 80s because I also kind of hate electric plug-in things. Maybe I just hate electric things. Lol that's probably it because I always liked RC cars but I hated the battery ones and always loved the gasoline ones but it's not like those were perfect either.
I have clearly pointed out many times that there are benefits and disadvantages to both and there's nothing more convenient than a leaf blower that you can simply grab the battery off the charger slide it on and go blow off your sidewalk!
It's far more convenient than a gasoline powered one that traditionally, you eventually had to mix up gas and oil for it and had to fill it up which was smelly and possibly messy and you had to pull start it.
While I've had a few over the years that were a breeze to start and easy to pull, most took at least six or seven pulls to get started.
So, it's just far more convenient to have a battery one UNTIL you need one for over 15 or 20 minutes.
That's when it's easier to have a gasoline because some of them will run for an hour or more on a tank of fuel and you don't have to have two or three batteries to continue to use them.
So personally, I hate the outdoor power equipment battery powered stuff but I'm still quite accurate and honest about the benefits and disadvantages..
Most people have a great sacrifice in power and operation time when they switch over to battery.
Only people who cut their grass when it really doesn't need to be cut will say they really can't notice a difference one way or the other unless they have a very large yard.
The other people will notice right away the mower doesn't have as much power and when the grass is tall and overgrown you can't get anywhere near the cut time you expect or what the package says and this is how a lot of people in this country cut their grass.
So it's a sacrifice. People don't have these Good batteries you speak of. They have these overpriced yet cheap quality, disposable ones.
I say disposable because in a year or so they're not working right so you have to replace them. Certainly you can stick them in that recycle box at Lowe's but that's still considered disposable to me.
The main drawback always comes down to batteries and battery capacity and longevity isn't where it needs to be for 2023.
It's just like with car batteries. The technology is basically the same as it was in 1960 or earlier.
In fact the new car batteries don't even last as long as the old ones!
The average lifespan of a car battery now is just under 4 years which is pathetic but we are continually being trained as consumers that that's okay, acceptable or to be expected.
In past times anytime you sold or junked a car you took your battery out and kept it and put some old lousy battery in because your battery was still great and could last for many more years.
Kind of like the engines on lawn mowers and push mowers but not so much anymore because the new Briggs with its plastic camshaft is pretty junky and has a short finite life span.
A car battery for 2023 should be the size of your fist and should be able to power your car with the key in the on position for at least an hour plus if not 2 to 3 hours and it should last 10 years minimum.
It also shouldn't cost over 40 bucks!
If battery technology had progressed anywhere near as quickly as things like medical technology, computer and storage capacity we would be at these levels or beyond but that simply hasn't happened.
Now, if and when they ever do get batteries up to where they need to be the next problem for the battery powered mowers will be the motors will fail and burn up.
Kind of like the old electric plug in lawn mowers.
I can't tell you how many of those I've seen that were burnt up because the people were cutting and overgrown field looking yard with one.
They had unlimited power from the cord pretty much and could draw quite High amps but they just weren't up to the task of 100% duty cycle like a gasoline lawn mower engine is or at least has been.

 

[smhardesty]

Try cutting trees for firewood, limbing them, and cutting to stove length with an electric chainsaw. You will be tossing that chainsaw in the trash bin after wasting your valuable time.

I now live in town so I sold off a whole bunch of my equipment and tools when we moved to town from the farm. About 3 months after we moved in, there was some freakish severe weather that hit near the end of December or the first of January. I had a huge limb down out of one of my oak trees. I figured I would only need a chainsaw once or twice so I bought an electric corded saw. I have never been so disappointed in a piece of equipment as I was with that stupid saw. I didn't even get half the limb sawed up before the chain broke, and that was after having to stop 3 or 4 times to readjust the chain. I ended up borrowing a real saw from a guy I know. It was a Stihl. Don't ask me what model. I don't think I even bothered looking at that. All I know is that it took me about 25 to 30 minutes to buzz the rest of that limb up and then do one the same size for my next door neighbor.

 

[smhardesty]

Maybe electric is the answer for the weekend warrior ( I still have my doubts as the batteries just don't last long enough yet), but I don't see them being viable for the professional any time in the distant future. Unless we get some revolutionary new battery that will hold a charge for hours and hours under use. People are living in a pipe dream regarding electric. I'm just a weekend power equipment warrior and I can't even use electric equipment. I tried a blower and it was all but useless for my property. Just doesn't last long enough. i'm not going to shell out tons for extra batteries. I'll stick with my dino powered equipment thank you. Same goes for vehicles. I just travel too far for electric to be viable. Hybrid is about as close as I can get.

I have the same, exact situation. I have a Worx trimmer, blower, hedge trimmer, and drill. If I'm only going to drive a few screws or drill just a few holes, the Worx drill is OK. The trimmer refuses to feed line so I'm constantly stopping, turning the thing upside down, and then pulling string out manually. As for the blower, what a joke! I can't make it all the way around my house, blowing leaves away so I can mulch them with two batteries. No kidding. Two batteries will NOT make it around my house. So, I'm a dinosaur too. I'll stick to ICE OPE for the remainder of my life.