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I may have found a deal

Dec 15, 2012#1

BustedKnuckles

Ok boys and girls, I'm headed out in the morning to see an older Troy-Bilt Horse tiller that a guy only wants $70 for. Supposedly it belonged to his dad, and after his passing he went over to the house and got it. He says it was stored under a deck and even comes with "some little plow" that was under there with it.

I'm hoping I'll hit a home run and even if I have to part it out, I don't think I can go wrong. I'll post an update tomorrow.

Dec 16, 2012#2

lawn mower fanatic

Can't wait to see it! :thumbsup:

Dec 16, 2012#3

metz12

BustedKnuckles said:
Ok boys and girls, I'm headed out in the morning to see an older Troy-Bilt Horse tiller that a guy only wants $70 for. Supposedly it belonged to his dad, and after his passing he went over to the house and got it. He says it was stored under a deck and even comes with "some little plow" that was under there with it.

I'm hoping I'll hit a home run and even if I have to part it out, I don't think I can go wrong. I'll post an update tomorrow.

Hoping to see it! and I just liked your facebook page!

Dec 16, 2012#4

BustedKnuckles

metz12 said:
Hoping to see it! and I just liked your facebook page!

Awesome! We're headed out the door now to see tiller and I'll have a update later today. I have a line on an Ariens RT5020 too so we'll see how that goes.

Dec 16, 2012#5

lawn mower fanatic

BustedKnuckles said:
Awesome! We're headed out the door now to see tiller and I'll have a update later today. I have a line on an Ariens RT5020 too so we'll see how that goes.

Good luck! :smile:

Dec 16, 2012#6

BustedKnuckles

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

I bought it! Here's a couple of photos and I didn't bother haggling with the guy since it seems to be complete and solid. The serial number is 224986 and I'm guessing it's a '76 model from what I found online.

I've already ordered a carb kit, axle seals, tine seals and an air filter for a whole $33 including shipping on fleabay. What I've found so far:

1. The oil is reasonably clean and from what I can see down the dipstick hole looks clean as a pin.
2. All moving assemblies move; nothing is seized.
3. Tires (tubed) are holding air.
4. As expected, no spark. Both valves move freely and the engine has compression.

I'm pumped! We're planning a larger garden next year and this will be just the ticket. Oh, I have a nice Craftsman front tine tiller if anyone is interested. :biggrin:

The Ariens tiller was a bust. The guy sent me a photo of an RT5020 SIMILAR to his but when I got there I found a tiller that was missing parts. I passed.

If any of you Troy-Bilt Horse aficionados have any advice on tine seal replacement, I'm all ears. Any and all advice will be appreciated since this is my first Horse and likely to not be my last.

Dec 16, 2012#7

metz12

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

BustedKnuckles said:
I bought it! Here's a couple of photos and I didn't bother haggling with the guy since it seems to be complete and solid. The serial number is 224986 and I'm guessing it's a '76 model from what I found online.

I've already ordered a carb kit, axle seals, tine seals and an air filter for a whole $33 including shipping on fleabay. What I've found so far:

1. The oil is reasonably clean and from what I can see down the dipstick hole looks clean as a pin.
2. All moving assemblies move; nothing is seized.
3. Tires (tubed) are holding air.
4. As expected, no spark. Both valves move freely and the engine has compression.

I'm pumped! We're planning a larger garden next year and this will be just the ticket. Oh, I have a nice Craftsman front tine tiller if anyone is interested. :biggrin:

The Ariens tiller was a bust. The guy sent me a photo of an RT5020 SIMILAR to his but when I got there I found a tiller that was missing parts. I passed.

If any of you Troy-Bilt Horse aficionados have any advice on tine seal replacement, I'm all ears. Any and all advice will be appreciated since this is my first Horse and likely to not be my last.

Thats awesome! it looks in pretty sweet shape. only surface rust. Are you just going to keep it or resell it?

Dec 16, 2012#8

BustedKnuckles

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

metz12 said:
Thats awesome! it looks in pretty sweet shape. only surface rust. Are you just going to keep it or resell it?

As of right now, it's a keeper. We're planning a larger garden next year and the little Craftsman just won't be able to handle it. I really wanted one of those old 2 wheel walk behind tractors with attachments but they seem to be hard to find and probably harder to find parts for. I'm a sucker for anything old and rusty that burns gas.

These old TBs are tough and come from an era when almost everything was built here in the US; something that has become very important to me these days.

As repairs progress I'll post photos; videos will follow as soon as the time comes for the first combustion event. I'm not real concerned about the appearance so any repairs made will be functional; I prefer patina.

Dec 16, 2012#9

lawn mower fanatic

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

BustedKnuckles said:
As of right now, it's a keeper. We're planning a larger garden next year and the little Craftsman just won't be able to handle it. I really wanted one of those old 2 wheel walk behind tractors with attachments but they seem to be hard to find and probably harder to find parts for. I'm a sucker for anything old and rusty that burns gas.

These old TBs are tough and come from an era when almost everything was build here in the US; something that has become very important to me these days.

As repairs progress I'll post photos; videos will follow as soon as the time comes for the first combustion event.

When you say "old 2 wheel walk behind tractors" do you mean something like this--but a lot older? They are pretty neat! :thumbsup:

Dec 16, 2012#10

BustedKnuckles

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

lawn mower fanatic said:
When you say "old 2 wheel walk behind tractors" do you mean something like this--but a lot older? They are pretty neat! :thumbsup:
View attachment 10293 View attachment 10294

Exactly. David Bradley, Simplicity, Bolens and who knows how many others made them. There's one for sale here locally with a cultivator attachment for $100. It has a non running Wisconsin engine and the tires are falling apart.

Dec 16, 2012#11

lawn mower fanatic

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

BustedKnuckles said:
Exactly. David Bradley, Simplicity, Bolens and who knows how many others made them. There's one for sale here locally with a cultivator attachment for $100. It has a non running Wisconsin engine and the tires are falling apart.

Are you thinking about buying that one or is it too much falling apart?

Dec 16, 2012#12

BustedKnuckles

Of course I'd like to have it but space is limited and with a deal like the one I just found, it just doesn't make sense right now.

Dec 16, 2012#13

lawn mower fanatic

BustedKnuckles said:
Of course I'd like to have it but space is limited and with a deal like the one I just found, it just doesn't make sense right now.

That's true.

Dec 17, 2012#14

BustedKnuckles

More info:

It seems to be missing a lever on the carb linkage to kill the engine; if anyone has a photo of their's with complete linkage that would be awesome. Specifically the area where the coil wire attaches.

The hiller/furrower is missing the outer "wings" but I plan to make some since they appear to be simple bolt ons.

Thankfully, the gas tank only has very light scale so not much will be needed in that department. Overall, this thing is in pretty solid shape and I'm very pleased with the purchase. As soon as parts start arriving I'll probably begin with the engine and get it running before tackling anything else.

I found some links to a manual and parts online:

http://www.amigatec.net/files/transmission/TroyTillerTransmissionServiceManual.pdf

http://www.oxentenko.com/TroyBiltHorse/TroyBiltHorseParts.pdf

Stay tuned!

Dec 17, 2012#15

HarryHarley

Great find. Mine is the 6 HP/ Tecumseh engine. Looks like that's what you have too. For sure a keeper!!
I bought it new in 1979 for about $ 800 if I remember right. It is a fantastic tiller.
Replace the fuel line too. Use non-ethanol gas. And put in a fuel shut-off valve in the line. What I do on ALL my small engines is to shut off the valve and let the engine die out. I never have gummed up carbs as a result.
If you have all the parts it is simple to replace the seals. Shouldn't be a problem for a guy like you who flips machines. I just put on new tires after the orig just wouldn't hold air for more than a week. Well, after 30 years what can you expect - LOL. I made the mistake of trying to get away with that "Slime" stuff. NEVER again. When I took the tires off, the one with the slime in it was totally rusted. The other wasn't so bad. Took the time to clean up and repainted the rims inside and out. Oh, getting the rims off was a chore. They are held on with a tapper pin. Since it was never removed in 30 plus years I had to beat the crap out of the pins to get them out. Even the penetrating oil couldn't get in there. Once out I replaced with a stainless steel bolt and nut. See picture.
Here some other pictures that I hope will help you. Good luck.

Dec 17, 2012#16

BustedKnuckles

HarryHarley said:
Great find. Mine is the 6 HP/ Tecumseh engine. Looks like that's what you have too. For sure a keeper!!
I bought it new in 1979 for about $ 800 if I remember right. It is a fantastic tiller.
Replace the fuel line too. Use non-ethanol gas. And put in a fuel shut-off valve in the line. What I do on ALL my small engines is to shut off the valve and let the engine die out. I never have gummed up carbs as a result.
If you have all the parts it is simple to replace the seals. Shouldn't be a problem for a guy like you who flips machines. I just put on new tires after the orig just wouldn't hold air for more than a week. Well, after 30 years what can you expect - LOL. I made the mistake of trying to get away with that "Slime" stuff. NEVER again. When I took the tires off, the one with the slime in it was totally rusted. The other wasn't so bad. Took the time to clean up and repainted the rims inside and out. Oh, getting the rims off was a chore. They are held on with a tapper pin. Since it was never removed in 30 plus years I had to beat the crap out of the pins to get them out. Even the penetrating oil couldn't get in there. Once out I replaced with a stainless steel bolt and nut. See picture.
Here some other pictures that I hope will help you. Good luck.

That's a clean machine! Thanks for posting the photos; mine is a bit different and can be choked with the throttle cable instead of the manual choke. I'll probably make my own kill setup rather than searching for whatever little lever may be missing.

I agree on the fuel shutoff valves and filters. Every machine I work on gets a shutoff valve for the simple fact that if a float fails, I won't have gas filling the floor of my garage or shed while we sleep. Ebay is a good place to buy them in bulk rather than onesey-twosey down at the parts store.

Excellent tip on the bolts for the wheels!

Dec 19, 2012#17

BustedKnuckles

I found an extra engine today! It was listed on craigslist back on November 8th and the guy still had it so it must have been meant to be. Supposedly it runs; the guy said the governor is broken but I haven't had my hands on it yet. It was in my hometown about 30 minutes away so I had my dad grab it for me.

I hope the piece of engine tin I need is good on it and will probably part out the rest on ebay. I don't know what condition the tank is in yet but if anyone needs a starter or other parts let me know.

Dec 19, 2012#18

metz12

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

BustedKnuckles said:
As of right now, it's a keeper. We're planning a larger garden next year and the little Craftsman just won't be able to handle it. I really wanted one of those old 2 wheel walk behind tractors with attachments but they seem to be hard to find and probably harder to find parts for. I'm a sucker for anything old and rusty that burns gas.

These old TBs are tough and come from an era when almost everything was built here in the US; something that has become very important to me these days.

As repairs progress I'll post photos; videos will follow as soon as the time comes for the first combustion event. I'm not real concerned about the appearance so any repairs made will be functional; I prefer patina.

Thats sweet. i am looking for an older mower too, it would be fun to work on and play around with. my uncle has a old one (not sure of the year or kind since the paint is all chipped nd you cant read the labels but it is pretty old since it has a pull start) with a hydraulic plow! i want the thing so bad but but he doesnt want to part it!!!

Dec 19, 2012#19

HarryHarley

Wow... another good find and electric start to boot. Man, you must be living right! Oh, that picture reminds me... I need to add an inline fuel filter to mine. Let us know when you got it running....

Dec 19, 2012#20

BustedKnuckles

Re: I may have found a deal Troy-Bilt Horse I circa 1976?

metz12 said:
Thats sweet. i am looking for an older mower too, it would be fun to work on and play around with. my uncle has a old one (not sure of the year or kind since the paint is all chipped nd you cant read the labels but it is pretty old since it has a pull start) with a hydraulic plow! i want the thing so bad but but he doesnt want to part it!!!

...and let the snowball begin.

This is a great hobby that has a low entry cost, can make you money and provide equipment that can function around the house. I would recommend finding something that has a following so you'll have support finding parts and help if you get stuck on a repair. Oddball stuff is the coolest until you find out you have the only one and nobody else knows anything about them.

Dec 19, 2012#21

BustedKnuckles

HarryHarley said:
Wow... another good find and electric start to boot. Man, you must be living right! Oh, that picture reminds me... I need to add an inline fuel filter to mine. Let us know when you got it running....

Will do brother, just waiting on the parts to arrive so I can get started. Lots of family stuff coming up so it will be next week sometime most likely.

Dec 20, 2012#22

BustedKnuckles

I found this old Troy Bilt ad last night in a 1974 Popular Mechanics magazine I have. I usually thumb through these at night right before bed. I love the ads and there's still some good shop suggestions to be found in them.

Dec 20, 2012#23

lawn mower fanatic

BustedKnuckles said:
I found this old Troy Bilt ad last night in a 1974 Popular Mechanics magazine I have. I usually thumb through these at night right before bed. I love the ads and there's still some good shop suggestions to be found in them.

Neat ad!! :thumbsup:

Dec 21, 2012#24

BustedKnuckles

We have parts! The axle seals, tine seals and carb kit came in yesterday so hopefully I can start making some progress this weekend. I think I'll knock out the tine seals first since they're dripping oil already. I've already got the the tine bolts loose so hopefully there won't be any nasty surprises when I get the holders off; I'll post photos as I go.

My total investment so far is $123 and change (the spare motor was insanely cheap :licking

and I'm really looking forward to getting this machine back up and running.

Dec 21, 2012#25

BustedKnuckles

Ok, so I've thinking about these tine seals while chasing kids and cooking dinner. The manual says to check side to side play in the tine shaft; mine has about a 1/4" movement and is way too much. So, before I start, I have to buy some .010" gasket material since the side cover gasket also shims the side play.

Hopefully I won't find a worn out gear.

Dec 21, 2012#26

BustedKnuckles

Ok, play is more like 1/8" and there are some allen head screws in there somewhere.

Dec 21, 2012#27

BustedKnuckles

More pics. In between watching The Polar Express and other things, I dug out the allen screws and got the cover off. It looks like there was only one .010" gasket so that's what I'll go back with tomorrow. The seal on the other side will have to be removed with the tine shaft still in place.

Dec 22, 2012#28

HarryHarley

Nice pictures... Make sure to use super fine sandpaper on the rusty shaft before you put the new seals on. Then clean out that milky oil. Looks like some water got in there. I bet you took care of all that anyway. Just couldn't help myself!
Keep the pic's coming...

Dec 22, 2012#29

BustedKnuckles

HarryHarley said:
Nice pictures... Make sure to use super fine sandpaper on the rusty shaft before you put the new seals on. Then clean out that milky oil. Looks like some water got in there. I bet you took care of all that anyway. Just couldn't help myself!
Keep the pic's coming...

You've got a good eye. I pulled the drain plug and about 6 ounces or more of water poured out before anything that remotely resembled oil started to drain. It was thick, gooey and nasty.

I got everything disassembled and need to clean up the tine shaft before reassembly. O'Reilly's had the 1/64 gasket material (3rd stop) so I would have to wait for a gasket to show up.

Dec 23, 2012#30

BustedKnuckles

Tine seal replacement complete.

I wrapped up this job tonight and overall, it was very easy. I recommend taking your time and lots of photos when tackling something unknown (for me) like this.

Surprises? None really. The tine shaft is worn where the seals ride and the right side retaining bolt was loose creating wear on the key way and tine holder itself. I reversed the shaft so the pressure would be on the "good" part of the shaft key way. Tine shafts can be bought on ebay for around $60 so if it fails I know what to do.

The next step is to pick up the spare engine from my parents house tomorrow and (my favorite part) start working on getting the engine running. The transmission is drained and I'll fill it soon.

On a side note, I picked up a Snapper RT5 5hp rear tine tiller today to be a later project. I bought it from the original owner for $50 and it's been sitting for roughly 10 years. Should be interesting.

Dec 23, 2012#31

lawn mower fanatic

BustedKnuckles said:
On a side note, I picked up a Snapper RT5 5hp rear tine tiller today to be a later project. I bought it from the original owner for $50 and it's been sitting for roughly 10 years. Should be interesting.

Looks good! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Dec 25, 2012#32

BustedKnuckles

Houston, we have spark! And one of the best sparks I've ever seen no less.

I pulled the flywheel tonight, cleaned the points and replaced the bad piece of engine tin. The gas tank is ready to use and I also replaced a missing strap; the spare engine has proven to be a worthy purchase. Regretfully, I didn't take any photos while I had the blower housings or flywheels off. I was in a frenzy swapping engine tin and got everything swapped and completely back together on both engines.

Carb work is next and hopefully she'll fire off soon after.

Dec 27, 2012#33

BustedKnuckles

UPDATE:

I pulled the carb last night for disassembly and cleaning. It wasn't too bad and the worst part was the throttle valve; it wasn't completely seized but was rather stiff. The float had failed or was about to fail at some point since it had gas inside it.

I bought a gallon of Gunk carb cleaner last night and it has a nifty basket inside it for holding the parts. I loaded the basket and tucked it in for a nice overnight chemical nap.

I pulled everything out this morning and all looks nice and clean. All passages are clear and the throttle valve works nice and freely. Reassembly will start tonight after I make some gaskets.

So far, the spare engine has been worth every penny. I've salvaged a tank strap, engine tin, carb float and some hardware so far with LOTS of spare parts remaining.

On a side note, the Snapper RT5 tiller I bought seems to be pretty nice but doesn't hold a candle to how this Horse is built. The Snapper is much more complex and isn't built anywhere near as heavy; I'll start a similar thread after I get this Horse running.

Dec 29, 2012#34

BustedKnuckles

We fired 'er up today and it runs great! I'll post a video soon.

Dec 29, 2012#35

lawn mower fanatic

BustedKnuckles said:
We fired 'er up today and it runs great! I'll post a video soon.

I'm glad it works! Can't wait to see the video! :thumbsup:

Dec 30, 2012#36

HarryHarley

I'm happy to see it works too! And, glad to see you saved a great tiller. Hope it has a good second life.
Nice job.

Jan 6, 2013#37

HarryHarley

I know you're busy with you next project (the snapper tiller) so you may have not gotten to your video.
Did I miss it?

Jan 6, 2013#38

BustedKnuckles

HarryHarley said:
I know you're busy with you next project (the snapper tiller) so you may have not gotten to your video.
Did I miss it?

Can I have that 30 minutes of my life back? Ya just gotta love carburetors...

So we get home from family stuff today and I got an email notification of your reply above. I went out to the shed, pulled the old Horse out and began to yank the rope with camera running. No go. 30 minutes of carb tinkering later, she was running great again but it was too dark. At one point when I had it too rich, the muffler was starting to glow at the lower screw. Oops! :biggrin:

I did notice some arcing at the plug boot and this is the second time I've found arcing when running an engine at night. The parts engine has a good boot so I'll swap it soon.

The Snapper is already finished so I'll shoot a video of both and upload them soon. Hang in there!

Jan 8, 2013#39

BustedKnuckles

Well, I made another futile effort yesterday. With work and kids, toy time is limited.

The tank isn't as clean as I thought it was and after sitting in the shed for a few days, the fuel now has a muddy appearance. So, a tank swap from the spare engine is in order along with a bowl cleaning. The float has been sticking too (perhaps from the crap in the fuel) and that's why I haven't been able to get the carb adjustment in order. :confused2: Maybe this weekend I'll get the job done.

Hmm, those Honda clone swaps are starting to look pretty good. :biggrin:

Jan 11, 2013#40

BustedKnuckles

Ok, its warm outside today so I shot the video.

1976 Troy Bilt Horse I after tine seal replacement and a carb rebuild. - YouTube

I still have some carb tinkering to do but I got it running reasonably well. After the video, I made a couple of adjustments to the idle air screw and got it idling a bit smoother. Oh, and this was a hot start, not one of those magical 10 degree cold starts.

Jan 11, 2013#41

lawn mower fanatic

BustedKnuckles said:
Ok, its warm outside today so I shot the video.

1976 Troy Bilt Horse I after tine seal replacement and a carb rebuild. - YouTube

I still have some carb tinkering to do but I got it running reasonably well. After the video, I made a couple of adjustments to the idle air screw and got it idling a bit smoother. Oh, and this was a hot start, not one of those magical 10 degree cold starts.

Nice!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jan 12, 2013#42

HarryHarley

Good job. I like how patient your dog is.
Does the reverse work too?

Mar 19, 2013#43

BustedKnuckles

HarryHarley said:
Good job. I like how patient your dog is.
Does the reverse work too?

Hi Harry,

Yeah, the ol' boy is a pretty good dog.

Reverse did not work on this one and I sold it before replacing the reverse drive disc; I just couldn't tame the old Tecumseh carburetor. I picked up another one nicer than this one recently and as soon as the tine shaft and seals come in I'll post pics. It's already had a newer Briggs 6.75 OHV installed in place of the old Indian and runs great; I picked it up for $50 with leaking tine seals, bad belts and a broken lever lock.

More to come!

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