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Hydro pulls to one side when going to neutral with foward speed control lever
#1
A
abrahah1
A
abrahah1
Walker MTGHS 1995 Serial #23429. as stated above when stopping the machine with the FSC the machine will bear to the right.
Notes: at some time prior to this serial number the jackshaft was changed and then at a later date, just the ground drive pulley on the jackshaft to hydros was changed, this was gleaned from walker manual 8895-1 under unique parts for the 20 and 25 hp models
I have used the ground drive aa45 belt which squelled like crazy and the 3v micro which also had some slippage (one side stronger than the other) I now have the correct belt on the ground drive which is a 7235 a double cogged belt.
The machine has been lubed thourghly, there are no leaks on either hydro shaft or control arms, the hydro oil was changed using straight 30w and air bled by rotating the hydro pulley. The machine was then run under a light load with the blades not engaged for several minutes, allowed to sit overnight, air bled once again and the cups filled to cold line.
The linkage including the springs on the control rods, the return spring on the handles, washers and ball joints are all in place and functioning properly.
The machine tracks straight on pavement, the drive tires are inflated to 15psi, the deck tires and rear tire also have proper inflation.
Note; It is understood that when going to neutral with the FSC that the right hydro goes into neutral before the left hydro, thus turning the machine to the right.
WHAT IS MY PROBLEM?
Thanks to all in advance
Notes: at some time prior to this serial number the jackshaft was changed and then at a later date, just the ground drive pulley on the jackshaft to hydros was changed, this was gleaned from walker manual 8895-1 under unique parts for the 20 and 25 hp models
I have used the ground drive aa45 belt which squelled like crazy and the 3v micro which also had some slippage (one side stronger than the other) I now have the correct belt on the ground drive which is a 7235 a double cogged belt.
The machine has been lubed thourghly, there are no leaks on either hydro shaft or control arms, the hydro oil was changed using straight 30w and air bled by rotating the hydro pulley. The machine was then run under a light load with the blades not engaged for several minutes, allowed to sit overnight, air bled once again and the cups filled to cold line.
The linkage including the springs on the control rods, the return spring on the handles, washers and ball joints are all in place and functioning properly.
The machine tracks straight on pavement, the drive tires are inflated to 15psi, the deck tires and rear tire also have proper inflation.
Note; It is understood that when going to neutral with the FSC that the right hydro goes into neutral before the left hydro, thus turning the machine to the right.
WHAT IS MY PROBLEM?
Thanks to all in advance
#2
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
http://www.walkermowers.com/manuals/mowers/model-ms-manuals/5895.pdf see page 39 for neutral adjustment.
#3
A
abrahah1
Thanks, but the Neutral adjustment clearly states "If both tires are either moving forward or backward adjust the neutral".
I have made this adjustment by jacking the drive wheels off the ground then bringing both wheel to neutral with the adjustment you have suggested. Am I missing something with this adjustment. Can adjustment be made to the drive tires independently?
Thanks again as I am looking for any solutions to this problem I'm having.
Anyone else out there ever have this problem?
A
abrahah1
http://www.walkermowers.com/manuals/mowers/model-ms-manuals/5895.pdf see page 39 for neutral adjustment.
Thanks, but the Neutral adjustment clearly states "If both tires are either moving forward or backward adjust the neutral".
I have made this adjustment by jacking the drive wheels off the ground then bringing both wheel to neutral with the adjustment you have suggested. Am I missing something with this adjustment. Can adjustment be made to the drive tires independently?
Thanks again as I am looking for any solutions to this problem I'm having.
Anyone else out there ever have this problem?
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You got it 1/2 way right.
You need to have a load on the motors to do the adjustments properly.
So it is either apply the brake is possible or adjust a little test, then readjust & test, at infinitum till you get it right.
First time I did a ZTR, I did it on stands & it was working perfectly.
On the ground it started doing those decreasing radius turns till eventually you dissapear up your own clacker.
Unfortunatly for some I stopped before that so nor it is run, adjust, run, adjust, run, adjust or just live with it.
Having gotten a bit smarter I no longer adjust hydros as part of a routine service unless asked to do so by the customer or the mal adjustment is dangerious or causing operating problems .
You need to have a load on the motors to do the adjustments properly.
So it is either apply the brake is possible or adjust a little test, then readjust & test, at infinitum till you get it right.
First time I did a ZTR, I did it on stands & it was working perfectly.
On the ground it started doing those decreasing radius turns till eventually you dissapear up your own clacker.
Unfortunatly for some I stopped before that so nor it is run, adjust, run, adjust, run, adjust or just live with it.
Having gotten a bit smarter I no longer adjust hydros as part of a routine service unless asked to do so by the customer or the mal adjustment is dangerious or causing operating problems .
#5
A
abrahah1
There was a load while doing the neutral adjustment as both wheels were rotating forward equaling a load, until neutral was found (no load). Thanks for the input.
Keep the diagnosis coming everyone
A
abrahah1
You got it 1/2 way right.
You need to have a load on the motors to do the adjustments properly.
So it is either apply the brake is possible or adjust a little test, then readjust & test, at infinitum till you get it right.
First time I did a ZTR, I did it on stands & it was working perfectly.
On the ground it started doing those decreasing radius turns till eventually you dissapear up your own clacker.
Unfortunatly for some I stopped before that so nor it is run, adjust, run, adjust, run, adjust or just live with it.
Having gotten a bit smarter I no longer adjust hydros as part of a routine service unless asked to do so by the customer or the mal adjustment is dangerious or causing operating problems .
There was a load while doing the neutral adjustment as both wheels were rotating forward equaling a load, until neutral was found (no load). Thanks for the input.
Keep the diagnosis coming everyone
#7
A
abrahah1
Thanks Bert. I stand corrected.
But why does it pull to one side when going to neutral with the Forward speed control lever?
A
abrahah1
Wheels rotating in free air is not a hydaulic load.
Thanks Bert. I stand corrected.
But why does it pull to one side when going to neutral with the Forward speed control lever?
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Because there is an imbalance between the left & right motors.
Most likely suspect is uneven wear in the control road left to right or uneven wear on the motors left to right.
From memory Walkers do have individual adjustments forward & reverse on both sides but they are not easy to get at ( what is on a Walker )
I have only 1 Walker in my repair run so I can not be considered a Walker man in any way shape of form .
We are just about to repower this Walker as my engine pallet landed yesterday. ( some where between now & Chrissy )
Most likely suspect is uneven wear in the control road left to right or uneven wear on the motors left to right.
From memory Walkers do have individual adjustments forward & reverse on both sides but they are not easy to get at ( what is on a Walker )
I have only 1 Walker in my repair run so I can not be considered a Walker man in any way shape of form .
We are just about to repower this Walker as my engine pallet landed yesterday. ( some where between now & Chrissy )
#9
A
abrahah1
Bert, thanks for the input, I am now leaning as you say, uneven wear on the motors as they are indeed 20 years old, and I have replaced and or adjusted steering linkage along with new oil the hydros.
Today I just noticed the machine needs tail wheel bearings, but I think you are correct about the motors.
Will post again after bearings installed.
A
abrahah1
Because there is an imbalance between the left & right motors.
Most likely suspect is uneven wear in the control road left to right or uneven wear on the motors left to right.
From memory Walkers do have individual adjustments forward & reverse on both sides but they are not easy to get at ( what is on a Walker )
I have only 1 Walker in my repair run so I can not be considered a Walker man in any way shape of form .
We are just about to repower this Walker as my engine pallet landed yesterday. ( some where between now & Chrissy )
Bert, thanks for the input, I am now leaning as you say, uneven wear on the motors as they are indeed 20 years old, and I have replaced and or adjusted steering linkage along with new oil the hydros.
Today I just noticed the machine needs tail wheel bearings, but I think you are correct about the motors.
Will post again after bearings installed.
#10
A
abrahah1
11:00am Eastern standard time New Jersey Wednesday 9/23/2015.
Bert, I would like to thank you for your correct diagnosis of my problem. In my experience their are few people who could solve my problem with out seeing it.
You go beyond that with your knowledge and insight disregarding my initial post of everything is good with the steering controls, springs etc.
Upon your previous email, your analysis of the imbalance between the two hydros, I took the Snow blower off, and pushed the Forward speed control lever forward, while looking at the hydro control arms underneath the machine, and there it was, the imbalance you spoke of.
One hyro control arm was returning to neutral while the other lagged behind momentarily.
Upon inspection, the turnbuckle nylon ball that connects to the steering rod to the hydo control arm was disintegrated, and the spring on the steering rod had walked past it's stop causing the imbalance. Also I still have not discounted the diagnosis of weak hydros, that will be seen in the future, as I have a 36 inch single stage snow blower attached to the machine.
After replacing the above parts, she now stops straighter than a Kangaroo!!
As for Walkers are a bear to work on you are also correct.
the bearings are pressed onto an axle tube and then then pressed onto the wheel rim, then a thru bolt goes thru the axle.
Of course the bearing on one side was disintagrated fusing the inner bearing to the axle and the thru bold,
it took my 2.5kg hand sledgehammer and some heat to get it loose, causing peening on the threaded portion of the bolt which I saved by dyeing it back for use.
As for the race that was fused to the wheel rim which I had to chisel out. It is all together now and rolling good.
Once again I would like to thank you, I gave you bad information, and you got to the root of it with an imbalance, where other could not see that.
Thank You Harry
A
abrahah1
Bert, thanks for the input, I am now leaning as you say, uneven wear on the motors as they are indeed 20 years old, and I have replaced and or adjusted steering linkage along with new oil the hydros.
Today I just noticed the machine needs tail wheel bearings, but I think you are correct about the motors.
Will post again after bearings installed.
11:00am Eastern standard time New Jersey Wednesday 9/23/2015.
Bert, I would like to thank you for your correct diagnosis of my problem. In my experience their are few people who could solve my problem with out seeing it.
You go beyond that with your knowledge and insight disregarding my initial post of everything is good with the steering controls, springs etc.
Upon your previous email, your analysis of the imbalance between the two hydros, I took the Snow blower off, and pushed the Forward speed control lever forward, while looking at the hydro control arms underneath the machine, and there it was, the imbalance you spoke of.
One hyro control arm was returning to neutral while the other lagged behind momentarily.
Upon inspection, the turnbuckle nylon ball that connects to the steering rod to the hydo control arm was disintegrated, and the spring on the steering rod had walked past it's stop causing the imbalance. Also I still have not discounted the diagnosis of weak hydros, that will be seen in the future, as I have a 36 inch single stage snow blower attached to the machine.
After replacing the above parts, she now stops straighter than a Kangaroo!!
As for Walkers are a bear to work on you are also correct.
the bearings are pressed onto an axle tube and then then pressed onto the wheel rim, then a thru bolt goes thru the axle.
Of course the bearing on one side was disintagrated fusing the inner bearing to the axle and the thru bold,
it took my 2.5kg hand sledgehammer and some heat to get it loose, causing peening on the threaded portion of the bolt which I saved by dyeing it back for use.
As for the race that was fused to the wheel rim which I had to chisel out. It is all together now and rolling good.
Once again I would like to thank you, I gave you bad information, and you got to the root of it with an imbalance, where other could not see that.
Thank You Harry
#11
A
abrahah1
Bert, off subject. There is a 1998 unknown hours diesel walker for sale in my area for 1,200.00 US/ 1,700.00 AUD, it burns oil and blows blue smoke, it got a new radiator and starter. The seller states he refills with oil every two weeks.
I suspect with a new radiator, the machine may have overheated several times, causing the blue smoke condition.
Do you think it maybe 1; glazed cylinder walls, or 2; bad valves or 3; bad rings?
Hopefully I can put in an additive to rid it of burning oil.
This is risky to me as a rebuild is around 2,500.00 plus USD. and I don't think a 1998 is worth that much more than 5,000.00.
Thanks in advance for your opinion. Harry
A
abrahah1
Bert, thanks for the input, I am now leaning as you say, uneven wear on the motors as they are indeed 20 years old, and I have replaced and or adjusted steering linkage along with new oil the hydros.
Today I just noticed the machine needs tail wheel bearings, but I think you are correct about the motors.
Will post again after bearings installed.
Bert, off subject. There is a 1998 unknown hours diesel walker for sale in my area for 1,200.00 US/ 1,700.00 AUD, it burns oil and blows blue smoke, it got a new radiator and starter. The seller states he refills with oil every two weeks.
I suspect with a new radiator, the machine may have overheated several times, causing the blue smoke condition.
Do you think it maybe 1; glazed cylinder walls, or 2; bad valves or 3; bad rings?
Hopefully I can put in an additive to rid it of burning oil.
This is risky to me as a rebuild is around 2,500.00 plus USD. and I don't think a 1998 is worth that much more than 5,000.00.
Thanks in advance for your opinion. Harry
#12
B
bertsmobile1
IMHO Walkers are always worth repairing.
They are very well built and quite robust.
As for values in doing so my view will be skewed by local pricing.
As a rule of thumb, nothing you put into an engine will fix anything, just mask it and allow it to get worse.
Look around the second hand market. The engine will be used in other applications and there are most likely good used ones available.
We just replaced the deisel engine in a 1971 IH skid steer with one from a 1986 Mazda ute.
Took a bit od fiddleing around but a rebuild kit for the original engine was $ 1800 & the whole ute was $ 500.
We got $ 600 by parting it out and the scrappie paid us $ 20 for what was left over.
Using that much oil says rings.
The quick & dirty test is to get some one to throttle up then down.
If the oil is worse on the throttle down then valve stem seals are the prime suspect.
If it smokes worse under acceleration then worn rings go to the top of the list.
In either case I would not bother trying to do a diagnosis on the engine, wear on the mower itself is the hardest to fix, flogged out holes that have to be welded up & redrilled are a lit more of a problem than a set of rings & bearings.
So if the wear in the mower is not too bad go for it however if everything is sloppy walk away.
B
bertsmobile1
Bert, off subject. There is a 1998 unknown hours diesel walker for sale in my area for 1,200.00 US/ 1,700.00 AUD, it burns oil and blows blue smoke, it got a new radiator and starter. The seller states he refills with oil every two weeks.
I suspect with a new radiator, the machine may have overheated several times, causing the blue smoke condition.
Do you think it maybe 1; glazed cylinder walls, or 2; bad valves or 3; bad rings?
Hopefully I can put in an additive to rid it of burning oil.
This is risky to me as a rebuild is around 2,500.00 plus USD. and I don't think a 1998 is worth that much more than 5,000.00.
Thanks in advance for your opinion. Harry
IMHO Walkers are always worth repairing.
They are very well built and quite robust.
As for values in doing so my view will be skewed by local pricing.
As a rule of thumb, nothing you put into an engine will fix anything, just mask it and allow it to get worse.
Look around the second hand market. The engine will be used in other applications and there are most likely good used ones available.
We just replaced the deisel engine in a 1971 IH skid steer with one from a 1986 Mazda ute.
Took a bit od fiddleing around but a rebuild kit for the original engine was $ 1800 & the whole ute was $ 500.
We got $ 600 by parting it out and the scrappie paid us $ 20 for what was left over.
Using that much oil says rings.
The quick & dirty test is to get some one to throttle up then down.
If the oil is worse on the throttle down then valve stem seals are the prime suspect.
If it smokes worse under acceleration then worn rings go to the top of the list.
In either case I would not bother trying to do a diagnosis on the engine, wear on the mower itself is the hardest to fix, flogged out holes that have to be welded up & redrilled are a lit more of a problem than a set of rings & bearings.
So if the wear in the mower is not too bad go for it however if everything is sloppy walk away.
#13
A
abrahah1
Just from the pictures I noticed (did not see in person) the deck gearbox cover missing, hour meter not working, amp meter glass cracked, top piece of Donaldson filter missing, flip up deck latch missing.
The owner further States that the deck may need "sheet metal" work in the future, he has been jumping the solenoid for 2 years to start, and a belt is slipping. All these visual problems without even looking under the bonnet.
I can live with all the slop with the exception of the blue smoke. This appears to be low maintained machine at least for the prior 2 years (solenoid jumping) if not longer.
Thanks again. PS did you see my prior post?
A
abrahah1
IMHO Walkers are always worth repairing.
They are very well built and quite robust.
As for values in doing so my view will be skewed by local pricing.
As a rule of thumb, nothing you put into an engine will fix anything, just mask it and allow it to get worse.
Look around the second hand market. The engine will be used in other applications and there are most likely good used ones available.
We just replaced the deisel engine in a 1971 IH skid steer with one from a 1986 Mazda ute.
Took a bit od fiddleing around but a rebuild kit for the original engine was $ 1800 & the whole ute was $ 500.
We got $ 600 by parting it out and the scrappie paid us $ 20 for what was left over.
Using that much oil says rings.
The quick & dirty test is to get some one to throttle up then down.
If the oil is worse on the throttle down then valve stem seals are the prime suspect.
If it smokes worse under acceleration then worn rings go to the top of the list.
In either case I would not bother trying to do a diagnosis on the engine, wear on the mower itself is the hardest to fix, flogged out holes that have to be welded up & redrilled are a lit more of a problem than a set of rings & bearings.
So if the wear in the mower is not too bad go for it however if everything is sloppy walk away.
Just from the pictures I noticed (did not see in person) the deck gearbox cover missing, hour meter not working, amp meter glass cracked, top piece of Donaldson filter missing, flip up deck latch missing.
The owner further States that the deck may need "sheet metal" work in the future, he has been jumping the solenoid for 2 years to start, and a belt is slipping. All these visual problems without even looking under the bonnet.
I can live with all the slop with the exception of the blue smoke. This appears to be low maintained machine at least for the prior 2 years (solenoid jumping) if not longer.
Thanks again. PS did you see my prior post?
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yes.
Good to see you got it fixed.
I don't come here looking for accolades so rarely post a responce once some one has got their problem sorted.
But thank you just the same.
I am here to learn like every one else and expand my "experience" by learing from other peoples problems.
Good to see you got it fixed.
I don't come here looking for accolades so rarely post a responce once some one has got their problem sorted.
But thank you just the same.
I am here to learn like every one else and expand my "experience" by learing from other peoples problems.