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Hydro-Gear ZT 3100, 150 hours, service done at 75 hours. Right side is much slower. Tried to adjust, no luck.

#1

R

rekit500

Unit was working fine. I raised the front enough (using my hoist attached to the front of the frame) to change the blades, all went well. When I lowered it it started normally but went into a sharp right turn when handle were in normal position. I could go straight with the bars held offset a few inches, so I mowed a little to see if it got any better (or worse). No change. Everything looks ok as far as oil levels (mine has the two reservoirs). All I could think was air pocket? so I did the air bleed procedure but no change. Yesterday I loosened the handle adjusting screws completely for full movement and the right side is still slower than the left, quite a bit. Before all this started, at full speed this mower would blow what little hair I have back. Now when adjusted to go straight it's maybe 70% of the speed it used to go. I put a new drive belt on it several months ago, all was fine. Visually the units look identical on the outside as far as the movement of the travel from the handles to the input mechanisms. I'm in a small town and let's just say I don't think I want the local shop tearing into the drives. Serviced with Hydro Gear filters and 20-50 synthetic oil at 75 hours. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


#2

H

hlw49

You did not idfentify the mower type and model no. as that could make a difference as to what the problem is. Hustler, Big Dog, Dixie Chopper all have models that have problems breaking the Hydro mounting brackets causing the problems you are describing. Check the hydro mounting brackets.


#3

R

rekit500

Thanks, here it is. Gravely ZT HD 60 model 991166 bought in 2019. Trans #ZM-GPEB-5LLF-2MRX,
#ZM-KPEB-5LLG-3MRX. KAW FR730V engine.
So the brackets that break, they are part of the trans housing or the mower frame? I'll check, but mine is residential use (2 acres) and never mistreated, I bought it new.


#4

StarTech

StarTech

On the Gravely 991166 they part of the frame and so far I have not seen any broken. One thing to check normally the movement of the drive belt idler arm as with Gravely they tend to bind up but normally affects the left side as the drive belt slips on the LH drive pulley.

Please check around about the local shops. You might be surprised. I am in a small town myself and am an authorized Hydro Gear repair shop. It may be contaminated oil die a seal allowing water into the drive but I am not personally there to check things.

Plus you should never raise the mower unless the brakes are released as these Zt-3100 uses the internal gear and a locking pawl that engages into the gear teeth,


#5

R

rekit500

Good tip about the brakes. I did chock the wheels. It does go different speeds in reverse as well and I see that only a Dealer can adjust that. Do you know how involved that procedure is, I have looked online. When I changed the belt I removed the gas tank, It was easier for me that way to get it on right, but I can check that. Belt slippage should not happen on a smooth concrete drive going downhill. I checked the tire pressure, both rears at 10 lb.
When I was buying my mower there was a guy there that had left a pressure washer for repair and he needed it for his Daughters wedding day to cleanup. Picked it up and it would not even start, and he was livid, as he needed it to work like tomorrow. They just told him the tech was off that day and kinda blew the guy off. Here I am ready to drop $6K to these people. But the other places I shopped--one the wife and I walked in and the sales guys were staring at their phones. We asked for help and waited like 10 minutes looking around, no one ever came. Told the mgr and walked out. The guys were still sitting there f ing around.
I try to do everything myself. These hydros are out of warranty now. I can see them charging me $500 to tell me I need a new one. If an oil and filter change does not help I'll just run it till it don't and then buy a new one and put it in myself.


#6

StarTech

StarTech

Here is a link to the service manual that you can download; just on the download link on the Hydro Gear site.

https://www.hydro-gear.com/download/zt-2800-zt-3100-zt-3200-zt-3400/#

And to be honest most time it is just a cheap to install a new unit as Hydro Gear gives the dealers and authorized shop a six month warranty as with a rebuilt you are lucky to get a 30 day repair warranty. But don't expect much out the new warranty as they written (by lawyers) to cover the manufacture hide and not yours.


#7

7394

7394

Plus you should never raise the mower unless the brakes are released as these Zt-3100 uses the internal gear and a locking pawl that engages into the gear teeth,
StarTech- I drive mine up a ramp, to do underneath clean. Once at top of ramp I put the brake on, for safety..
But have not had any issues like this from OP. Mine are HG-2800, externally same as HG-3100 I believe,..


#8

C

clubairth

Startech I am helping a friend and we are looking for a replacement ZT-3200 #ZL-GCEE-1K5A-1EXX.
Right wheel motor for a old Hustler Mini-Z Model #06050615.

Is a Hustler dealer the only place to order one?
Your advice points to getting a new unit instead of rebuilding the old one?

The mower is 18 years old but only used residentially so easy compared to a commercial guy. It just locked up the right side one day while mowing and won't move in either direction. So something broke inside and locked it all up. Doing some reading I did find a guy with a very similar problem and he had a broken internal brake pawl. He did take the Hydro apart and replaced the broken pawl. So service parts are available.

Should we be worried about replacing the left side Hydro? Or just wait? Hours are a bit unknown as one of the few failures he has had was the hour meter!
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#9

StarTech

StarTech

The ZL-GCEE-1K5A-1EXX has been superseded to ZL-GCEE-SK5A-1NXX and any Hydro Gear dealer should be able to get you one. This replacement is nearing twice the replacement of the original unit. List Price is $1,157.18.

Now a non Hydro Gear dealer can get it but they just won't have a warranty; unless, they are willing to warranty it in house.

And the other side is giving I let it ride until you do have problems with it.


#10

C

clubairth

Thanks for your quick and expert reply. That is expensive but probably the best way to go for a home guy. Looking at the number I see ZL-GCEE-3K5A-1NXX? Maybe a typo SK5A?

Sorry one more question? Do you have a preferred supplier? One you have dealt with before?
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#11

StarTech

StarTech

From my distributor SKU look-up.
1717515914606.png

I buy direct from my distributor so I don't know of another source currently but just Google the model number above..

This because I am a HG service center and do get a discounted price on the parts and whole goods.


#12

C

clubairth

OK thanks again for checking. Our first attempt will be to take it apart looking for a possible broken brake pawl. If that's not it we will probably be buying a replacement hydro. Since it just locked up all of a sudden and the fluid looked fine. It must be a mechanical failure internal to the hydro?
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#13

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

If you want a warranty on it. It will have to purchased and installed by an authorized dealer. Authorized dealer sales across the counter also voids the warranty


#14

C

clubairth

Understood and good to know.
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#15

C

clubairth

Wanted to come back for more advice?
Got the hydro blown apart and found the problem causing the lock up?
The brake setup was much different on this one than what we were expecting and it was not broken.

Found destroyed springs in what I "think" is called the cylinder block?

Here are the broken items. No debris in the hydro and we were puzzled as the unit was still locked solid with no movement at all. All the pieces of the springs were trapped inside the small cylinders. Does appear there is some metal to metal wear on the part that springs ride on.

Hard to see but some rubbing?

Wear on Metal Part.JPG

Broken Springs1.jpg

There are two of these assemblies in each hydro as one is the pump and the other is the motor. Here is the other one and all looks normal?
Good Springs.jpg


Looking for parts and advice?
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Attachments





#16

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Going to need the pump unit and at least the center section. I would go ahead and get the motor also, and change all three items as a unit.


#17

C

clubairth

Thanks for the advice. Having trouble finding the part numbers needed?
Any suggestions? We do want to replace all 3 items as you recommend.

We got the correct hydro number up thread but the service manual I have has no part numbers in it?
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#18

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

The 7 piston pump is part number 70723 ($105.06) The motor assy block is 72882 ($53.12) and the center section is 71561 ($227.06) and the seal kit is 73107 ($41.36)

And make sure to make a note or mark the charge pump cover so it gets reinstalled the same direction. If turned 180 degrees will not supply oil to the 7 piston pump to purge, or even operate properly.


#19

T

Turner66

Out of curiosity, what happens to the center section that it needs to be replaced?
Thank you.


#20

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Out of curiosity, what happens to the center section that it needs to be replaced?
Thank you.
Sometimes nothing. But most of the time the mating surface were the piston mates up looks like the scrathed up area on the bottom of your piston motor, or worse. The Hydro-gear approved test is if you run a fingernail across the surface and it catches it is damaged beyond use.


#21

C

clubairth

ILengine Thanks for the help!

We received the parts but it looks like Hydro-Gear changed the brake mechanism and the center section is different and won't work for our Hydro?
Old one in back with the loop. New one in front with just a block?

Brake Difference in Casting.jpg


Here is the back side of the center section giving a different view of the brake setup.

Brake Difference in Casting1.jpg

We noticed that the original was marked with an R1 and the new one marked with R8? Perhaps revision numbers? Hard to see the R1 on the original. Also notice the R8 version has a machined round hole with a channel just above the R8. On the original the round hole is just a rough casting with no channel?

Casting with R8 and R1.jpg

Even the piston pump is different because of the brake pawl change. The new one has channels machined in the body (Inside the plastic bag) for the brake pawl to engage. The original one is smooth with no cut outs?

Piston Pump Differences-Brakes.jpg

Casting numbers might help? Here is the new part.

New Casting Part Number.jpg


Here is the original part. It's in a different spot too?

Old Casting Part Number.jpg

The rubber/plastic covers on the center section seem to be different?
Here is a comparison. New ones are flush with the surface but the old ones stick up somewhat?

Cover Stick Up Differences.jpg

No problem sending the parts back but we are unsure what to order next?
Any help?
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#22

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Startech I am helping a friend and we are looking for a replacement ZT-3200 #ZL-GCEE-1K5A-1EXX.
Right wheel motor for a old Hustler Mini-Z Model #06050615.
Thanks for your quick and expert reply. That is expensive but probably the best way to go for a home guy. Looking at the number I see ZL-GCEE-3K5A-1NXX? Maybe a typo SK5A?

Sorry one more question? Do you have a preferred supplier? One you have dealt with before?
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OK here is the qlitch. The number that you listed in the first quoted post falls under the brake center section improvement and in those cases the entire unit has to be replaced. The parts numbers I listed are for the second quoted post


#23

C

clubairth

Wow complete replacement only for that style of braking system then?
OK so many details!
Thanks again for your detailed answers. Not what we wanted to hear but that's the breaks. So to speak!!
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#24

C

clubairth

ILengine or Startech where do you recommend to buy a complete unit?
From what's been posted we need part ZL-GCEE-3K5A-1NXX?

Looking at that number I find a superseded one? Is that correct? It's the part number Startech posted up thread as the superseded number.
ZL-GCEE-SK5A-1NXX

ZT-3100 Hydro

Just double checking so I don't order the wrong thing. We do have a local lawn mower shop who is a Hydro-Gear dealer but talking to him does give me any confidence? Not sure he even knows what he is doing? They just want to sell new machines and have little interest in support or service? So very hesitant to have them do the work warranty or no warranty?

Another big problem using the dealer is transportation as the mower has the hydro removed and it was locked anyway so very difficult to move the mower on to the trailer. Need a fork lift to load it!

I think if we DIY it the results will be better.
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#25

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Looks like then ZL-GCEE-1K5A-1EXX and the ZL-GCEE-3K5A-1NXX are both superceding to the ZL-GCEE-SK5A-1NXX


#26

B

bertsmobile1

Mulligans have always been my go to for transmission problems .
Make sure you have all of the machine & transmission numbers at hand when you ring them
They take a long time to answer the phone but have always been honest and one can not ask for more than that .


#27

C

clubairth

Thanks much as I was unaware of Mulligans!
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#28

C

clubairth

Much time has passed and many problems getting the correct hydro! After sending the wrong ones back finally got what looks like the correct one. It was a battle!

Installed it but now have the brake lever locked solid and will not move? The other side is easily moved by hand?

Parking Brake Lever.JPG

Now they have changed that arm and bracket as well? The new one has only one small hole and the old arm is a two piece affair with 2 small screws holding it together. Now has a circle clip and not the old sheet metal style clip to retain the arm. The arm is keyed and can be installed in one of four positions spaced 90 degree's apart. This is another problem as you can't install the arm to match how it's orientated on the other side?

Does something need to be done so this lever will move by hand? Don't want to force anything as it's brand new and about $1000 in cost and it's under warranty.

Does it need to be sent back to Hydro gear because this brake lever is locked?
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