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Hello, I have a 2009 Super Z, XR7 60" deck, I replaced one of the deck idler pulleys (assembly), a few weeks ago with an aftermarket replacement. The pully was in good shape so that had me thinking, could I just replace the bearings for less than an assembly? which leaves me with 2 issues. I took the old bearing part number 6203 c3 (by NTN) and ordered a new one, replacement size should be 17mm x 40mm x 12mm, however, the OD is much larger, the old bearing looks like it is 17mm x 34mm x 12 mm. The bearing part number on the new assembly is 6203 LU. The local bearing dealer asked me to verify if it was 34 or 35mm, which led to issue #2. I went to remove the bearing using a vice and a large socket to support the pulley's lip around the bearing and another to press the bearing out with a hammer, the bearing will not move at all. My press is down and at this point I am more curious about the bearing than saving the pulley. It is not spot welded in place, is it possible the edge is rolled on both sides to prevent the bearing from moving? The other 2 idlers spin forever but are starting to make noise, there is a metal plate under the seal that would prevent me from adding grease. I was hoping someone has seen this before and had a suggestion or two.

Are you using water to clean deck/mower after use? Always use complete OEM Hustler replacement parts/idler pulley assemblies instead of going cheap. If you use non OEM Hustler parts you will be creating more problems down the road. If you are using water, it will cause bearing failure even on sealed bearings by removing grease & causing bearing failure.
You will need 2 of these pulleys.
You will need just 1.
$160 plus tax & shipping is not bad for your heavy duty 12 year old mower. Thanks, Mark

A standard 6203 is 17 x 40 x 12
The "C" designations are the ball diameters.
In a C3 grade the balls are a poofteenth smaller to allow for crush when the bearing is installed with an interfearence fit .

Now idlers on everything apart from EU made ones are constructed with a captive bearing
Your 34mm measurement is the diameter from the edge of the lip to the edge of the lip of the pulley halves, not the edge of the outer race .
To replace the bearing you have to split the two halves of the bearing apart by drilling out the rivets / spot welds .
The bearing will now fall out
This is also why the bad bearing will not push out .

I have done it & occasionally I send some to the local Mens Shed for the old codgers to do when they fell like it
It is an easy job but very big job and when the halves are back together it needs to be balanced as well particularly is you have welded them together

If they are spot welded then when you join them together again you have to rotate the halves so the holes on one side ar 1/2 way between the holes on the other side then do a lap weld on all 40 of them ( 20 each side )
A right royal PIA of a job but down here some idlers go for better than $ 200 ( Aus ) and usually are not stocked locally so you have to wait for them to be ordered from the USA or pay airfreight to get them here .

Oh the joys of being a tight wad...I got customer that will spend 3x the price of a new part at times. But if you don't count the few hours it takes to do this then have at it. But for us in the business of repair we charge for it takes to do stuff like this.

Also for a few dollars more you can get the upgraded pulleys.

Usually replacing a bearing is a last ditch effort.
OTOH there are a lot of mowers that were once imported down here rebranded with a local name but no longer are so there is no local parts support and lots of mowers I can not identify.
Usually I would just find the nearest size stock pulley even if it means making a new gelt retainer because that is quicker & easier than spliting & rejoining a pulley.
But I do offer the customer the option of selling them a bearing and giving them back the old pulley.
A couple have done it
Most won't do it again.
The Mens Shed used to take in troubled kids & teach them to do stuff with metal & wood so they still have a big box of pulleys to refurbish & they do a good job including repainting & they get a "donation" from me for each one they do.
But that depends upon who is there to do the teaching & who is there to be taught so some times they will be chasing me for stuff to repair & other times stuff sits there for ages.
Well after all Mens Sheds is a charity

StarTech said:

Oh the joys of being a tight wad...I got customer that will spend 3x the price of a new part at times. But if you don't count the few hours it takes to do this then have at it. But for us in the business of repair we charge for it takes to do stuff like this.

Also for a few dollars more you can get the upgraded pulleys.

Click to expand...

Drilling those pulley rivets isn't an easy task,as some of them are heated and bradded down in one operation. This hardens and tempers the rivet as well as makes sure it is tight because of the metal shrinkage when the rivet cools. It's also much quicker (and quieter) than bashing them down cold. I tried the bearing only replacement once. Only once.

mechanic mark said:

Are you using water to clean deck/mower after use? Always use complete OEM Hustler replacement parts/idler pulley assemblies instead of going cheap. If you use non OEM Hustler parts you will be creating more problems down the road. If you are using water, it will cause bearing failure even on sealed bearings by removing grease & causing bearing failure.

https://hustlermowers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Hustler_Super_Z_PM.pdf

HUSTLER 602821 - IDLER 6.0" RIVETED - HUSTLER genuine Part Number 602821

HUSTLER IDLER 6.0" RIVETED - Hustler part 602821. We are an expert HUSTLER Gold Dealer selling Genuine OEM parts at wholeseller prices. Hustler 602821

www.hustlerlawnmowerparts.com

You will need 2 of these pulleys.

HUSTLER 602743 - IDLER 10.0" RIVETED - HUSTLER genuine Part Number 602743

HUSTLER IDLER 10.0" RIVETED - Hustler part 602743. We are an expert HUSTLER Gold Dealer selling Genuine OEM parts at wholeseller prices. Hustler 602743

www.hustlerlawnmowerparts.com

You will need just 1.
$160 plus tax & shipping is not bad for your heavy duty 12 year old mower. Thanks, Mark

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, I blow the dust off and wash at the end of the season.

bertsmobile1 said:

A standard 6203 is 17 x 40 x 12
The "C" designations are the ball diameters.
In a C3 grade the balls are a poofteenth smaller to allow for crush when the bearing is installed with an interfearence fit .

Now idlers on everything apart from EU made ones are constructed with a captive bearing
Your 34mm measurement is the diameter from the edge of the lip to the edge of the lip of the pulley halves, not the edge of the outer race .
To replace the bearing you have to split the two halves of the bearing apart by drilling out the rivets / spot welds .
The bearing will now fall out
This is also why the bad bearing will not push out .

I have done it & occasionally I send some to the local Mens Shed for the old codgers to do when they fell like it
It is an easy job but very big job and when the halves are back together it needs to be balanced as well particularly is you have welded them together

If they are spot welded then when you join them together again you have to rotate the halves so the holes on one side ar 1/2 way between the holes on the other side then do a lap weld on all 40 of them ( 20 each side )
A right royal PIA of a job but down here some idlers go for better than $ 200 ( Aus ) and usually are not stocked locally so you have to wait for them to be ordered from the USA or pay airfreight to get them here .

Click to expand...

bertsmobile1 thanks for the reply it has been helpful, none of my pulleys have rivets, but looking at one of the sides it does appear to have many very small spot welds, explaining the appearance of smaller bearings. That being said it is not practical to change the bearings.

StarTech said:

Oh the joys of being a tight wad...I got customer that will spend 3x the price of a new part at times. But if you don't count the few hours it takes to do this then have at it. But for us in the business of repair we charge for it takes to do stuff like this.

Also for a few dollars more you can get the upgraded pulleys.

Click to expand...

StarTech I'm being a tightwad? thank you, it seemed to me replacing an old bearing with a quality bearing on a good pully made sense. With the informative comments made by others, I have realized that the welded/ sandwich design it no longer does. Yes I did replace one with an aftermarket (I'm assuming ) it was one of several parts that a neighbor gave me, he had the same model but traded it (engine issue). It's also possible it is an original Hustler part, same appearance/ construction, the same brand of bearing, however, the bearing part number ends with LB, but with no actual part number I don't know. My local dealer has screwed me over, not greasing on services, flipping the cupped washers on the blades, left the oil drain loose, not letting me know that my drive belt was missing chunks, telling me I had the wrong part numbers (that were correct) on parts the previous owner had left for me (and had bought from them), overcharging time for an annual service, just to name a few. I appreciate and respect anyone in the trades that does quality, honest work, I'm also retired so if it takes me 2 hours to do something "those of you in the business" can do in 1, so be it, experience tells me it will correct when it is done and why I asked for assistance here.

The riveted versions were never meant to be repaired. And Hustler does have a better pulley to replace these which is a commercial grade one piece pulley. It is only about $3 more.


As for tightwad comment it was meant to put things in prospective as when you charge $80 per for labor you can't charge the customer for 2-3 hrs work and reinstalled an used pulley. All that time would have to be written off costing the shop a profit and the possibility of still having to install a new pulley and belt. For a DIYer it is fine to waste time that otherwise could be used for more profitable endeavors.

StarTech said:

The riveted versions were never meant to be repaired. And Hustler does have a better pulley to replace these which is a commercial grade one piece pulley. It is only about $3 more.
View attachment 59159

As for tightwad comment it was meant to put things in prospective as when you charge $80 per for labor you can't charge the customer for 2-3 hrs work and reinstalled an used pulley. All that time would have to be written off costing the shop a profit and the possibility of still having to install a new pulley and belt. For a DIYer it is fine to waste time that otherwise could be used for more profitable endeavors.

Click to expand...

StarTech, Thank you I appreciate the clarification, I totally understand the cost of doing business, I appreciate customer service, and am a loyal customer even for things I can do myself. Unfortunately for two many businesses customer service takes a back seat. I also realize there are many customers that can be cheap, difficult, and never satisfied no matter how good a job was done. Would you mind providing me the part number for the 1 piece pulley, my original part number is 781385. Thanks again and Happy Holidays.

'781385​

I thought we were referring to the PN 602821 pulley but it very well could replace 781385 pulley. Here is a couple links.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193335943948

https://www.foards.com/products/602...MIwJni3q769AIVDYiGCh1lVAFQEAQYAiABEgKI5PD_BwE

As for shops I do understand the frustration with some of them. Several of my customers are former customers of local shops including a couple that will not even let JD touch their new equipment. The problem is the hiring of unqualified techs. I recently had a personal experience with JD Stihl service where that tech couldn't even find a bad spark plug. The hedger was under warranty and I was just the go between. I ended up repair the hedger myself. The tech didn't even know how to do a pressure/vac test on the engine either.

Two of the shops I get parts from want me to work for them.
Even when I lie about how much I turn over they make an attractive offer.
However I am not into working for any one else , for regular hours and rushing through jobs in minimum times so they end up being 1/2 done.
I also like to have a chat .
Yesterday was a mucky day so I goofed off & slept most of the day then went down into the workshop from 8pm ( when the cool breeze came up ) till 3 am
When I ask about flexiable hours the shake their heads & go white.
All of them complain that they can not get tradespeople .
None want to take on an apprentice just in case when they qualify they go to an opposition dealer , or even worse, set up themselves .

So right now we "import" tradespeople ( in all trades ) from overseas , most of which have the best qualifications money can buy and none of which know which end of a screwdriver to hold .
When I was setting up I talked around a bit to other techs I came across and to a one, they all had a diploma they bought off the web so they could get a trade account .

StarTech said:

I thought we were referring to the PN 602821 pulley but it very well could replace 781385 pulley. Here is a couple links.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193335943948

https://www.foards.com/products/602...MIwJni3q769AIVDYiGCh1lVAFQEAQYAiABEgKI5PD_BwE

As for shops I do understand the frustration with some of them. Several of my customers are former customers of local shops including a couple that will not even let JD touch their new equipment. The problem is the hiring of unqualified techs. I recently had a personal experience with JD Stihl service where that tech couldn't even find a bad spark plug. The hedger was under warranty and I was just the go between. I ended up repair the hedger myself. The tech didn't even know how to do a pressure/vac test on the engine either.

Click to expand...

StarTech, any idea why this is considered an upgrade, is it a better bearing or because it allows water and grass to fall thru. Mine is solid with 2 holes for water drain down, I've never had a problem with grass build-up and anytime it has been washed I engage the blades and spin the mower in circles to remove as much water as possible from the deck. Looks like it would work but cannot find the ID in any descriptions, thank you.

bertsmobile1 said:

Two of the shops I get parts from want me to work for them.
Even when I lie about how much I turn over they make an attractive offer.
However I am not into working for any one else , for regular hours and rushing through jobs in minimum times so they end up being 1/2 done.
I also like to have a chat .
Yesterday was a mucky day so I goofed off & slept most of the day then went down into the workshop from 8pm ( when the cool breeze came up ) till 3 am
When I ask about flexiable hours the shake their heads & go white.
All of them complain that they can not get tradespeople .
None want to take on an apprentice just in case when they qualify they go to an opposition dealer , or even worse, set up themselves .

So right now we "import" tradespeople ( in all trades ) from overseas , most of which have the best qualifications money can buy and none of which know which end of a screwdriver to hold .
When I was setting up I talked around a bit to other techs I came across and to a one, they all had a diploma they bought off the web so they could get a trade account .

Click to expand...

I find it funny that i too have a couple shops near me want to hire me as a tech. One guy acts like he is paying top dollar at $15/hr and a 40 hour week. I retired from a meat grinder service job of 40-60 hours a week a $30/hr and i do just fine working for myself now. Both shops complain they can't find reliable and qualified help. To quote one shop owner "all the old guys are leaving and the new kids can't fix stuff when they do show up". Oh well, the industry is changing quickly and little one man shops like me will go the way of drive in movies and pay phones. When all the equipment is fuel injected with ECMs and only dealers will be able to service the equipment.

1bbford said:

StarTech, any idea why this is considered an upgrade, is it a better bearing or because it allows water and grass to fall thru. Mine is solid with 2 holes for water drain down, I've never had a problem with grass build-up and anytime it has been washed I engage the blades and spin the mower in circles to remove as much water as possible from the deck. Looks like it would work but cannot find the ID in any descriptions, thank you.

Click to expand...

Being commercially used I would think they do have better bearings with high temperature grease with a larger amount of grease. Most of the cheaper split idlers uses cheaper bearing with minimal cheap grease. If you open one those cheap Chinese bearings you lousy grease. I install a set 6204-2RS bearing I got off Amazon in my personal mower as a test. The grease became harden in just a few months.

And the large holes does allow clips and water just pass through the pulleys. I get quite a few home owner mower where the pulleys are rusted though in places where they dont clean off their deck after mowing. They usually just the mower set out in the weather too.

All I know at the current time is that JD is switching over to them on their larger ZTRs. I installed a couple similar pulleys back in the Summer on a Z950M but I was fairly busy and didn't take time to fully inspect them.

Hammermechanicman said:

I find it funny that i too have a couple shops near me want to hire me as a tech. One guy acts like he is paying top dollar at $15/hr and a 40 hour week. I retired from a meat grinder service job of 40-60 hours a week a $30/hr and i do just fine working for myself now. Both shops complain they can't find reliable and qualified help. To quote one shop owner "all the old guys are leaving and the new kids can't fix stuff when they do show up". Oh well, the industry is changing quickly and little one man shops like me will go the way of drive in movies and pay phones. When all the equipment is fuel injected with ECMs and only dealers will be able to service the equipment.

Click to expand...

Unless you upgrade yourself too. I got the Briggs software and interface already. I wait until next year before I order the expensive Kawasaki interface. Right now I applying my knowledge automobile EFI to my troubleshooting of these engines. Huge learning curve just like when automobiles first came out with EFI but at least I have that to build on.

My problem working the other man is they tend to lie amount about what was done and the techs catches it in the end for not covering their bosses backsides.

Back when I got laid off due to corporate downsizing, all I heard was "you are over qualified" for the jobs that I was applying for. So I finally gave up and went into business for myself. I just didn't want the headaches involved of running a business. Well there are headaches but at least when a customer is told what was done it actually gets done now.

BTW I just got in a headaches of a Hustler Super Z here. I got a left hand hydro pump leaking and an engine with oil leak too. Sure the pump pulley is easy to get off. I do know the engine PTO and drive pulley should come off fairly easy as I did them a couple years ago and used plenty of anti-seize. Well that work is after Christmas as I taking the weekend off. The three chainsaws were at least done yesterday.

It will my first tear down of the Hydro Gear BDP-21L pump so it will be a slow go as I pay more attention to the disassembly. I do know there is a tiny spring and steel ball under one of the covers. I found that last year when I replace an o-ring on the right hand pump.

I never got laid off but in 2000 i was told they had reassessed the pay scales and i was over the max. So much for being a top performer for 20 years. Didn't get a raise for almost 10 years after that and went from super tech to you don't do enough and what you do isn't good enough overnight. It was also nice to know all the classes i did on my own time to make me "value added" to the company made me over qualified all of a sudden. I will take the headaches of running my own business vs. Getting called out at 2:00AM in the winter for a service call over 100 miles away.

Basically the companies are wanting very knowledgeable techs but them at the starting pay for a PMT instead SCE level. Heavens forbid if you know more than ACEM for the one above me got pissed everytime I went around his butt to get things done. He thought I had to have his permission everytime I needed something done. I reckon knowing the RCEM and the company president was too much for him to coup with. Or he was just pissed that I would not give him my personal cell phone back in the 80's.

But yes I now perfer running my own business over the problems of working for some else too. Although the last year has nearly drove me crazy trying to get things done.

It comes down to "management professionals"
If you do an MBA you get taught
1) Non managerial staff are nothing more than a production variable cost which has to be minimised in order to maximumize profits .
2) all profits originate in the board room .
3) every sales oppertunity must be optimized .

And this of course filters down right through the entire economy

So you employ the cheapest staff you can find and find ways to pay them less
Because you are the reason for all profits you are entitled to all of it for yourself
Every time some one comes trough the door you take them for every cent you possible can regardless weather it was wanted or not , "you want fries with that order "

It is a sickness that perverts the entire community
So now a good deal is one where you have totally screwed the other side .
The mutually beneficial deals are to be avoided at all costs .

I blew one of my suppliers away when I returned goods I had not been invoiced for.
Apparently none of their customers had ever notified them when there had been a mistake in favour of the customer.

And if you want to feel depressed ask some friends what they would do if a cashier gave them too much change or the one I like is gave you your change then handed back the note you gave them.
You would be lucky if 1 in 100 said they would return the excess money regardless of weather they knew the cashier would have to make up the short fall in their till drawer.

Even at one in a hundred I am in good company. It called being honest. I also believe a man's word should be his bond. Break it with me and you are no longer a honorable person and to be avoided.

I have former customers that still try to get in on my good side but I tell no when it comes to repairs. I figure if they stab me in the back once they do it again if given the chance.

bertsmobile1 said:

It comes down to "management professionals"
If you do an MBA you get taught
1) Non managerial staff are nothing more than a production variable cost which has to be minimised in order to maximumize profits .
2) all profits originate in the board room .
3) every sales oppertunity must be optimized .

And this of course filters down right through the entire economy

So you employ the cheapest staff you can find and find ways to pay them less
Because you are the reason for all profits you are entitled to all of it for yourself
Every time some one comes trough the door you take them for every cent you possible can regardless weather it was wanted or not , "you want fries with that order "

It is a sickness that perverts the entire community
So now a good deal is one where you have totally screwed the other side .
The mutually beneficial deals are to be avoided at all costs .

I blew one of my suppliers away when I returned goods I had not been invoiced for.
Apparently none of their customers had ever notified them when there had been a mistake in favour of the customer.

And if you want to feel depressed ask some friends what they would do if a cashier gave them too much change or the one I like is gave you your change then handed back the note you gave them.
You would be lucky if 1 in 100 said they would return the excess money regardless of weather they knew the cashier would have to make up the short fall in their till drawer.

Click to expand...

I guess i am 1 in 100.

I got my personal opinion of several local shop owners as I would not even trust my pet rock with them.

But there is still a few of shop owners that are still honest.

StarTech said:

The riveted versions were never meant to be repaired. And Hustler does have a better pulley to replace these which is a commercial grade one piece pulley. It is only about $3 more.
View attachment 59159

As for tightwad comment it was meant to put things in prospective as when you charge $80 per for labor you can't charge the customer for 2-3 hrs work and reinstalled an used pulley. All that time would have to be written off costing the shop a profit and the possibility of still having to install a new pulley and belt. For a DIYer it is fine to waste time that otherwise could be used for more profitable endeavors.

Click to expand...

That is a nice looking pulley! When one of my idler pulleys locked up,while waiting to receive the replacement,I toyed around with the failed one for just a very few minutes,dulling one drill bit on it. While I most likely had the tools to get it apart,I quickly saw that this was a fools errand and tossed it in the trash. A for-profit shop must make a profit to be there tomorrow. A wasted hour of labor is a double loss,lost money on this job and lost money on the job you should have been doing with that wasted time. I'm retired and have time to spare for repairs,but taking forever to get a $25 pulley apart to put $35 worth of bearings and bolts and nuts to get it back in service? Nope.
This pic is what I used to have to repair back to as close to new as possible,before I retired. Try to imagine,if you will, the sheer number of parts needed to get this Freightliner back on the road. One mistake or one untorqued bolt could result in disaster. Not many of the younger workers have the dedication to pay that much attention to detail. (edit) Speaking of paying attention to detail-just a few moments of not paying attention resulted in this driver rear-ending the truck he was following,resulting in quite the wreck.

The local vet retired
She was a dedicated animal lover who ran a single vet practice with 2 part time nurses & a weekend receptionist
My customers all complain that they miss her a lot
A corperate vet "hospital " is not too far away but they have all said their vet bills have gone up nearly 10 times as being part of a business that is all about maxing out the profits. everything costs more & perscriptions are never provided with a repeat so for some animals that means a monthly visit for a $ 100 consultation.
This is what they teach MBA's to do
Squeeze every last cent out of the customer .

Great find on the upgraded pulley!!
If I ever need one I will look around. It's a shame Hustler does not list both pullies in the manuals as the biggest question is which pulley replaces the old cheap sheet metal versions.
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