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Husqvarna YTH1842 compression issue?
#1
cbr7380
cbr7380
Hi i have a Husqvarna YTH1842 with a Briggs and Stratton 33r777-0003G1 18.5 intek. Got it out to use this spring and was having problems starting so I bought a new battery,starter and solenoid with no luck! Had it looked at and was told it was a compression issue a release or something? Anyway they said $400 to fix and that just doesn't sound right,nor will I put $400 into fixing an engine Anyway any help feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! TIA
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#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Frst thing to do is check / adjust the valve lash
I use 0.004" for both
If that fails to fix the problem go down to 0.002" on the INLET only
If that fails then the AC which is part of the cam shaft has failed
So the parts will be a cam shaft & a sump gasket & a lower oil seal
To do the job the engine has to come out , be flipped over, pulleys come off, sump come off, internals cleaned to ensuder every part of the ACR is accounted for then reassembled , returned to the engine, refilled with oil started run & governor adjusted then cooled and vlave lash readjusted .
Sounds way too cheap to me for aan ACR replacement and way too expensive of a simple valve lash adjustment .
I use 0.004" for both
If that fails to fix the problem go down to 0.002" on the INLET only
If that fails then the AC which is part of the cam shaft has failed
So the parts will be a cam shaft & a sump gasket & a lower oil seal
To do the job the engine has to come out , be flipped over, pulleys come off, sump come off, internals cleaned to ensuder every part of the ACR is accounted for then reassembled , returned to the engine, refilled with oil started run & governor adjusted then cooled and vlave lash readjusted .
Sounds way too cheap to me for aan ACR replacement and way too expensive of a simple valve lash adjustment .
#3
StarTech
StarTech
It usually take at least two hours to do the job. Actually changing out the camshaft only takes 45mins to 1 hour it is the other things that makes the job longer such as removing and installing the engine.
The OEM camshaft currently is about $90 plus gaskets and oil. Then you are paying shop rate on labor. Around most Brick and Mortar shops are around $100 per hr; even I am at $65 per hr. When a DIYer does the job he usually not counting his labor as part of the cost to repair. (Nor does the IRS)
Take the Z925A I am working on. Replaced three engine mounting screws. Disassemble the engine yesterday which took over two hours as I had remove other body parts just to get to the #1 cylinder head. On top that the muffler will have to be replaced. It will probably take 5 hrs to do the job. I am only charging out 4 hrs labor and the job is still $751 with taxes. At least he didn't need a cylinder head.
Sorry things are not priced at the 1960's prices as I just got hit a large price increase from the OEM on parts alone.
The OEM camshaft currently is about $90 plus gaskets and oil. Then you are paying shop rate on labor. Around most Brick and Mortar shops are around $100 per hr; even I am at $65 per hr. When a DIYer does the job he usually not counting his labor as part of the cost to repair. (Nor does the IRS)
Take the Z925A I am working on. Replaced three engine mounting screws. Disassemble the engine yesterday which took over two hours as I had remove other body parts just to get to the #1 cylinder head. On top that the muffler will have to be replaced. It will probably take 5 hrs to do the job. I am only charging out 4 hrs labor and the job is still $751 with taxes. At least he didn't need a cylinder head.
Sorry things are not priced at the 1960's prices as I just got hit a large price increase from the OEM on parts alone.
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
And how many engines have you done when it took the better part of a whole day just to wash the thing then the rest of the day to remove rusted in place engine pulley before you start doing the actual job
I charge out 2 hours each way + 1 more for the actual cam so that is 5 hours total at $ 72 ( AUS ) + $ 250 for the parts
I charge out 2 hours each way + 1 more for the actual cam so that is 5 hours total at $ 72 ( AUS ) + $ 250 for the parts
#5
StarTech
StarTech
That is what I was getting at. Equipment owners just see the bill and not what actually was involved in doing the job. I terminated one my client's shop access here because he just keep nitpicking the bills. When he finally started telling me how it takes to do a job; that was the straw that broke the camel's back per say. Especially after I had wrote off two hours of labor of the mice damage repairs.
I have been lucky as most equipment usually comes apart fairly easy but there are those that are a royal pain to get apart.
Now I just got in a brand new JD S180 that has fire damage and it repairs are estimated at $2000 just to replace the plastics and damaged wiring harnesses. The JD parts alone are costing me $1200 plus another $250 for the Briggs parts. He should never been mowing a pile of dry leaves. He just brought less 4 months ago. JD wanted over $3000 to do the repairs. That one advantage I have over them as I have lower costs.
I have been lucky as most equipment usually comes apart fairly easy but there are those that are a royal pain to get apart.
Now I just got in a brand new JD S180 that has fire damage and it repairs are estimated at $2000 just to replace the plastics and damaged wiring harnesses. The JD parts alone are costing me $1200 plus another $250 for the Briggs parts. He should never been mowing a pile of dry leaves. He just brought less 4 months ago. JD wanted over $3000 to do the repairs. That one advantage I have over them as I have lower costs.
#6
G
Gord Baker
G
Gord Baker
A failed ACR (Automatic Compression Release) should not prevent it from Starting. It only assists starting by lowering the compression for Manual start. Set the valves 0.005" or as close as possible and try it. If that fails, I would recommend changing the Plugs and then the Coil.
#7
B
bertsmobile1
I get 4 to 5 of these a year
same story, won't crank so new battery ( $ 150 ) new Coil ( $ 65 ) new solenoid ( $ 45 ) new carb ( $ 100+ ) then they bring it to me
4 out of 5 just need the valve lash set but I have learned not to do that in front of the customer but to hold the mower for 1 to 2 weeks before sending it back and pretending it had me stumped , because no one feels good about being made to look as stupid as they are .
The 5th one needs a new cam .
B
bertsmobile1
If the ACR has failed and the engine can not get past TDC then it ain't going to start is it .A failed ACR (Automatic Compression Release) should not prevent it from Starting. It only assists starting by lowering the compression for Manual start. Set the valves 0.005" or as close as possible and try it. If that fails, I would recommend changing the Plugs and then the Coil.
I get 4 to 5 of these a year
same story, won't crank so new battery ( $ 150 ) new Coil ( $ 65 ) new solenoid ( $ 45 ) new carb ( $ 100+ ) then they bring it to me
4 out of 5 just need the valve lash set but I have learned not to do that in front of the customer but to hold the mower for 1 to 2 weeks before sending it back and pretending it had me stumped , because no one feels good about being made to look as stupid as they are .
The 5th one needs a new cam .
#8
StarTech
StarTech
Well I wish I had the space but returning sooner does make the customer think the next time that maybe they let the professional do the work. I have had customers to try to get me make them whole again buy buying their used parts. Not going to happen. I had that installed a new starter. solenoid, voltage regulator, stator, and new battery before bring in the mower where I found a fifty cent wire terminal bad. He still got a bill for an hour's worth of labor and the terminal.
Now on those Briggs OHV engines I do keep a couple days but that is for the RTV to fully cure before attempting a restart after valve adjustment.
Now on those Briggs OHV engines I do keep a couple days but that is for the RTV to fully cure before attempting a restart after valve adjustment.
#9
G
Gord Baker
G
Gord Baker
The owner indicated he had problems getting it started. With Electric start and new starting components it should be able to Crank, then Start.If the ACR has failed and the engine can not get past TDC then it ain't going to start is it .
I get 4 to 5 of these a year
same story, won't crank so new battery ( $ 150 ) new Coil ( $ 65 ) new solenoid ( $ 45 ) new carb ( $ 100+ ) then they bring it to me
4 out of 5 just need the valve lash set but I have learned not to do that in front of the customer but to hold the mower for 1 to 2 weeks before sending it back and pretending it had me stumped , because no one feels good about being made to look as stupid as they are .
The 5th one needs a new cam .
#10
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
No where did CBR say it was cranking properly
The shop said the ACR had failed so the firt thing to do is confirn the diagnosis for accuracy before racing off on a tanget .
If the ground cable is corroded through it wonk crank fast enough to start regardless of how many solenoids he fitted .
Even the ones that were siliconed from new
And the customer pays for the gasket in any case .
The shop said the ACR had failed so the firt thing to do is confirn the diagnosis for accuracy before racing off on a tanget .
If the ground cable is corroded through it wonk crank fast enough to start regardless of how many solenoids he fitted .
As there is a better than average chance I will be the next person to remve the rocker cover I never ever use silicon on themNow on those Briggs OHV engines I do keep a couple days but that is for the RTV to fully cure before attempting a restart after valve adjustment.
Even the ones that were siliconed from new
And the customer pays for the gasket in any case .
#11
StarTech
StarTech
Even new components if the ACR failed, the valves are way out adjust, or other electrical it still can crank to the compression zone and stop. Briggs starters are too weak to handle 150 psi +.The owner indicated he had problems getting it started. With Electric start and new starting components it should be able to Crank, then Start.
#12
StarTech
Either with a gasket or RTV the customer pays for the materials.
StarTech
Well I do use it per the Briggs APSI bulletin. And it is not that hard to remove the rocker covers if RTV in place. All you got to do is to shear the covers off and a little clean up afterwards. And it is a heck alot better than those Kohler cork gaskets on the Courage single engines.As there is a better than average chance I will be the next person to remve the rocker cover I never ever use silicon on them
Even the ones that were siliconed from new
And the customer pays for the gasket in any case .
Either with a gasket or RTV the customer pays for the materials.
#13
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
Some of the big shops around me won't crack an engine open. Labor at $100/hr and 5-6 hours to remove, diassemble, clean, inspect, replace parts, reassemble, reinstall and WARRANTY the engine makes it more cost efficent to replace the engine. I am probably half what a big shop charges but that is still more than some folks is reasonsble. I like to change the head gasket at the same time so it winds up being head, valve cover and case gasket, oil filter and oil, spark plug and camshaft at a minimum for parts. It probably needs an air filter and fuel filter, the blades sharpened, the deck scraped out and the front end greased. So the $100 camshaft turns into $500 or more to get it "mow ready".
#14
cbr7380
cbr7380
LOL got it home today everyone and guess what it was? The stupid seat safety switch was shorting out! Runs like new now FK them and their "$400" resolution
#15
J
jbugj
J
jbugj
I guess we're probably all at a loss when compression was talked about, and the problem ends up being a seat safety switch...
#16
StarTech
StarTech
See that what we get when we don't get a good of the actual problem and just what some shop said it was.
And we actually needed the 9 digit model number as there are several versions of this model.
And we actually needed the 9 digit model number as there are several versions of this model.
#17
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
It usually take at least two hours to do the job. Actually changing out the camshaft only takes 45mins to 1 hour it is the other things that makes the job longer such as removing and installing the engine.
The OEM camshaft currently is about $90 plus gaskets and oil. Then you are paying shop rate on labor. Around most Brick and Mortar shops are around $100 per hr; even I am at $65 per hr. When a DIYer does the job he usually not counting his labor as part of the cost to repair. (Nor does the IRS)
Take the Z925A I am working on. Replaced three engine mounting screws. Disassemble the engine yesterday which took over two hours as I had remove other body parts just to get to the #1 cylinder head. On top that the muffler will have to be replaced. It will probably take 5 hrs to do the job. I am only charging out 4 hrs labor and the job is still $751 with taxes. At least he didn't need a cylinder head.
Sorry things are not priced at the 1960's prices as I just got hit a large price increase from the OEM on parts alone.
#18
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
Not sure how any of you guys can stay in business...you are getting hammered from all sides....65-72 dollars?? an hour here on long Island no one is charging less than 100...with prices going up from there...and I mean up!!!! Try haggling with your doctor...everyone wants it done yesterday for nothing!! I really appreciate the wisdom that is given here so freely and for FREE I have learned a lot from these masters!
Thanks Happy Easter season to all now go raise some prices.. no this AIN'T the SIXTIES anymore!
Thanks Happy Easter season to all now go raise some prices.. no this AIN'T the SIXTIES anymore!
#19
VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ
VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ
So wrong to give this advise. in fact engines are made cheaper by design by using ACR or a cam lobe pre TDC lift so that a cheaper battery and starter and smaller cables and charging system can be used. If no compression release is done the system will have a very hard time cranking past TDC or not at all. I total truth, your statement is correct, that it will run but getting 300rpm cranking speed to get spark is the key to starting and unlikely at full compression even with a jump. That said, every engine model has it's design and compression and quality starting system and battery support and cable size, but seldom enough to defeat my statements.A failed ACR (Automatic Compression Release) should not prevent it from Starting. It only assists starting by lowering the compression for Manual start. Set the valves 0.005" or as close as possible and try it. If that fails, I would recommend changing the Plugs and then the Coil.
#20
VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ
VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ
Part of the problem is just that, insufficient or inaccurate diagnostics and symptoms up front with little identity of product. Hard to get these facts clear in writing. In fact the first post needs to be precise for me to bother unless I see a train wreck in the responsesSee that what we get when we don't get a good of the actual problem and just what some shop said it was.
And we actually needed the 9 digit model number as there are several versions of this model.
#21
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
It all depends on your needs and the market. At $40/hr i actually clear more profit per hour than a big dealer charging $100 per hour. My overhead is near $0. Other than my liability insurance, website and business cards i have no other overhead. No rent, utilities, employees, health insurance, advertising and a dozen other things. I pay cash for everything and i have no debt so no loan payments. I am thinking of going to $50/hr to cover increased shop costs. The big shops have plenty of business and so i.Not sure how any of you guys can stay in business...you are getting hammered from all sides....65-72 dollars?? an hour here on long Island no one is charging less than 100...with prices going up from there...and I mean up!!!! Try haggling with your doctor...everyone wants it done yesterday for nothing!! I really appreciate the wisdom that is given here so freely and for FREE I have learned a lot from these masters!
Thanks Happy Easter season to all now go raise some prices.. no this AIN'T the SIXTIES anymore!
#22
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
If I charged by the time I actually spend , some jobs would work out at $5 /hr
Big box shops have a lot more fixed costs than small one man shops do let alone mobile businesses like me
It costs the shop up the road around $ 200,000/year ( aus) before he can open his front door and let a customer in.
It costs me $ 8,000 so I have a lot less to cover in my labour mark ups.
On top of that the profit on new sales is between 50% to 100%
Profit on repairs is down to 15% to 30%
So big shops do not want anybody to repair anything unless it is a warranty claim and the workshop is really there for pre-delivery assembly and the profit of from repairs hopefully covers the cost of the pre-delvery .
Shops who make a living from repairs have much lower labour rates than big box franchises because they want to do the repairs where as big box stores do not .
Big box shops have a lot more fixed costs than small one man shops do let alone mobile businesses like me
It costs the shop up the road around $ 200,000/year ( aus) before he can open his front door and let a customer in.
It costs me $ 8,000 so I have a lot less to cover in my labour mark ups.
On top of that the profit on new sales is between 50% to 100%
Profit on repairs is down to 15% to 30%
So big shops do not want anybody to repair anything unless it is a warranty claim and the workshop is really there for pre-delivery assembly and the profit of from repairs hopefully covers the cost of the pre-delvery .
Shops who make a living from repairs have much lower labour rates than big box franchises because they want to do the repairs where as big box stores do not .
#23
M
mmoffitt
M
mmoffitt
Yes Bert you are the hardest working man in Mower repair thanks for all you give you are the King!If I charged by the time I actually spend , some jobs would work out at $5 /hr
Big box shops have a lot more fixed costs than small one man shops do let alone mobile businesses like me
It costs the shop up the road around $ 200,000/year ( aus) before he can open his front door and let a customer in.
It costs me $ 8,000 so I have a lot less to cover in my labour mark ups.
On top of that the profit on new sales is between 50% to 100%
Profit on repairs is down to 15% to 30%
So big shops do not want anybody to repair anything unless it is a warranty claim and the workshop is really there for pre-delivery assembly and the profit of from repairs hopefully covers the cost of the pre-delvery .
Shops who make a living from repairs have much lower labour rates than big box franchises because they want to do the repairs where as big box stores do not .
#24
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
For a shop to hire a mechanic for $20/hr that's $40k for salary plus SSA tax and unemployment tax health insurance and admin overhead that mechanic will really cost around $70k a year. So his real cost is $30/hr. So the shop gets $70/hr for his work. Assuming he bills 8 hours of labor a day. Out of that $70 comes all the operatimg overhead before profit which is probably around $50 of the$70. So if the shop is lucky they will get $20/hr towards profit IF the mechanic bills 8 hours every day. Add in a couple weeks paid vacation and you lose possibly 80 billed hours, $8k plus the $1600 vacation pay that 2 weeks cost the shop more than you would think. Never take a mower to a shop that pays mechanics flat rape. A small shop with low overhead can charge less than the big shops and be profitable.
Had a big dealer want to hire me. I told him i would work as a contractor for $30/hr with no benefits and i bring my own tools so every billed hour is $70 for the shop as i would be no additional overhead. Owner liked the idea but wouldn't hire me because if the other mechanics found out what he was paying me they would quit.
Had a big dealer want to hire me. I told him i would work as a contractor for $30/hr with no benefits and i bring my own tools so every billed hour is $70 for the shop as i would be no additional overhead. Owner liked the idea but wouldn't hire me because if the other mechanics found out what he was paying me they would quit.
#25
I
ILENGINE
There was a period of about 20 years in my area that every shop that put up a new building was out of business within 3 years.
I
ILENGINE
And that is assuming a 100% mechanic efficiency which in reality would be closer to 80% as a goal, but real world would be around 60-70% for some jobs. Came across a OPE dealer profit chart a few years ago that highlighted the different aspects of a growing OPE shop. And the figures were enlightening. For a small shop doing under 100k per year the take home profit margin is around 30% but for a multi million dollar dealership is around 5% after everything including depreciation. And for the growing business you are safe up to about 500k but once you cross the 500k mark you have 12 months to exceed 1M otherwise the overhead and additional cost will put you in bankruptcy.For a shop to hire a mechanic for $20/hr that's $40k for salary plus SSA tax and unemployment tax health insurance and admin overhead that mechanic will really cost around $70k a year. So his real cost is $30/hr. So the shop gets $70/hr for his work. Assuming he bills 8 hours of labor a day. Out of that $70 comes all the operatimg overhead before profit which is probably around $50 of the$70. So if the shop is lucky they will get $20/hr towards profit IF the mechanic bills 8 hours every day. Add in a couple weeks paid vacation and you lose possibly 80 billed hours, $8k plus the $1600 vacation pay that 2 weeks cost the shop more than you would think. Never take a mower to a shop that pays mechanics flat rape. A small shop with low overhead can charge less than the big shops and be profitable.
Had a big dealer want to hire me. I told him i would work as a contractor for $30/hr with no benefits and i bring my own tools so every billed hour is $70 for the shop as i would be no additional overhead. Owner liked the idea but wouldn't hire me because if the other mechanics found out what he was paying me they would quit.
There was a period of about 20 years in my area that every shop that put up a new building was out of business within 3 years.
#26
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Have you ever heard of Loctite The Right Stuff? It is instant with no cure time. Kohler sells it and it is good stuff. They call it a 1 minute cure. Use it put it back together and put it back to work.Well I wish I had the space but returning sooner does make the customer think the next time that maybe they let the professional do the work. I have had customers to try to get me make them whole again buy buying their used parts. Not going to happen. I had that installed a new starter. solenoid, voltage regulator, stator, and new battery before bring in the mower where I found a fifty cent wire terminal bad. He still got a bill for an hour's worth of labor and the terminal.
Now on those Briggs OHV engines I do keep a couple days but that is for the RTV to fully cure before attempting a restart after valve adjustment.
#27
StarTech
StarTech
But I am cheap and waiting a day is not a problem. Why pay 4x for a product when I can wait 12 hrs. I am not slap it together shop as I do check over the equipment for other obvious problems while waiting.
#28
B
bertsmobile1
If they were contractors then it was 4 times to cover the extra supervision needed ,
B
bertsmobile1
Way back when I was an occasional engineering clerk we costed labour out at 3 times the workers hourly rateFor a shop to hire a mechanic for $20/hr that's $40k for salary plus SSA tax and unemployment tax health insurance and admin overhead that mechanic will really cost around $70k a year. So his real cost is $30/hr. So the shop gets $70/hr for his work. Assuming he bills 8 hours of labor a day. Out of that $70 comes all the operatimg overhead before profit which is probably around $50 of the$70. So if the shop is lucky they will get $20/hr towards profit IF the mechanic bills 8 hours every day. Add in a couple weeks paid vacation and you lose possibly 80 billed hours, $8k plus the $1600 vacation pay that 2 weeks cost the shop more than you would think. Never take a mower to a shop that pays mechanics flat rape. A small shop with low overhead can charge less than the big shops and be profitable.
If they were contractors then it was 4 times to cover the extra supervision needed ,
#29
D
DHook
D
DHook
Would any mechanics be willing to work on an engine if I walked into the shop with just the engine instead of the whole mower? Just curious. This would be to fix the ACR cam problem.
#31
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Ring around & check
Most would not because they do not have engine stands because they no longer do engine rebuilds
It also knocks off 2 to 4 billing hours if and only if the engine needs removing
Top end jobs are all done engine if mower as are lower oil seals
Most would not because they do not have engine stands because they no longer do engine rebuilds
It also knocks off 2 to 4 billing hours if and only if the engine needs removing
Top end jobs are all done engine if mower as are lower oil seals
#32
D
DHook
D
DHook
Thanks for the reply. Everything I've read about replacing the compression release mechanism says the motor has to come off the mower to do the job. I was thinking I could save a little money by doing the motor removal myself and just bring the motor to the shop to have the mechanism replaced since it requires opening up the case, which I'm not sure I can handle.
I have to check and adjust the valves first to see if the problem is in the valve clearances before assuming it's the mechanism.
I have to check and adjust the valves first to see if the problem is in the valve clearances before assuming it's the mechanism.
#33
StarTech
StarTech
Yelp the engine has to come off if the camshaft has to be replaced. No way; unless, you have the abilities to pass though solid objects with the the parts. The engine has to be split in order to access the internals.Thanks for the reply. Everything I've read about replacing the compression release mechanism says the motor has to come off the mower to do the job. I was thinking I could save a little money by doing the motor removal myself and just bring the motor to the shop to have the mechanism replaced since it requires opening up the case, which I'm not sure I can handle.
I have to check and adjust the valves first to see if the problem is in the valve clearances before assuming it's the mechanism.