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It's funny how people treat each other when it comes to business and money. Over the past few years I've learned that the Lawn-care Business is one of the most cut throat, stab in the back occupations one can get into.

The guy that is trying to break into the business automatically earns the name of Lowballer or a Hack, and god forbid he drives a Toyota pick with all his mowers and equipment in the back end, that makes all the so called professionals cringe.

H$ll everybody knows to be in Lawn care you have to drive at least a three quarter ton four wheel drive at least that's what they (all the Pros) told me. Those 12 to 16ft trailers are heavy.

Now lets Talk about the term Professional Lawn-Care operator. What makes a professional lawn-care operator???? Would it be he has a license or maybe he has a big Trailer with the name Professional on the side which gives him the right to screw over his customers and charge inflated prices.
Maybe the fact he has $12,000 mowers and 50 or 60 thousand or more in overhead and talk about attitudes.


I forgot you have to be able to do a lawn, just you on that 60" cut mower and another guy with a string trimmer in SIX MINUTES, Talk about Rocket Science WoW. Humm I wonder how many blades of grass he cuts or does he just mash it all down with those 12" tires on the back of that Dixie Chopper?



Reality Check........... Everything from the Toyota Pick up to the Six minute lawn cut, all true.
Breaking into the Lawn-care Business is hard enough without the name calling, the Negativity from people and big businesses and more than an individual should have to put up with. Lets remember, those of us who operate a lawn care business, we all started some where.:thumbsup:

Sounds like someone is just a little jealous.the lawn care business is a hard one to start into. The professionals do not like the one that use the junk pickup and junk mowers. Because most of them don't know what they are doing. They think because they have a truck a mower and weadeater the are professionals. They have no clue what length to cut the grass how often to sharpen the blades. Or even how to charge a lot of those people are just out for beer money. And a lot of them screw up a lot of yards by not cutting the proper length or cutting to often when it is hot and dry. Just because we drive a three quarter ton or bigger truck and tow a trailer doesn't mean we over charge. Or that we screw our customers people don't mind paying a fair price to have a professional job done. Grass cut at the proper length trimming done clipping mulched or hauled away sidewalks,driveways,and porches blown off. Also there is other work that is involved in taking care of the lawn pulling weeds. Knowing what is a weed and what is a flower. When to apply fertilizer or weed and feed or how to tell if they have grubs or other insects. Also license and insurance what if you throw a stone and it hit a window or a person. Most of the fly by night people don't have insurance. They are hear one year and gone the next. When you see one of us with the big truck and big trailer and the big 60 inch ztrack we have been around for a long time. We spent a long time building up the business. It takes time hard hard earned money and a lot of work. Most of us spent a lot of time reading trade magazines and other books to learn as much as we can.

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Lawnpro1969 said:

Sounds like someone is just a little jealous.the lawn care business is a hard one to start into. The professionals do not like the one that use the junk pickup and junk mowers. Because most of them don't know what they are doing. They think because they have a truck a mower and weadeater the are professionals. They have no clue what length to cut the grass how often to sharpen the blades. Or even how to charge a lot of those people are just out for beer money. And a lot of them screw up a lot of yards by not cutting the proper length or cutting to often when it is hot and dry. Just because we drive a three quarter ton or bigger truck and tow a trailer doesn't mean we over charge. Or that we screw our customers people don't mind paying a fair price to have a professional job done. Grass cut at the proper length trimming done clipping mulched or hauled away sidewalks,driveways,and porches blown off. Also there is other work that is involved in taking care of the lawn pulling weeds. Knowing what is a weed and what is a flower. When to apply fertilizer or weed and feed or how to tell if they have grubs or other insects. Also license and insurance what if you throw a stone and it hit a window or a person. Most of the fly by night people don't have insurance. They are hear one year and gone the next. When you see one of us with the big truck and big trailer and the big 60 inch ztrack we have been around for a long time. We spent a long time building up the business. It takes time hard hard earned money and a lot of work. Most of us spent a lot of time reading trade magazines and other books to learn as much as we can.

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Jealously :laughing: I don't think so. Yes the lawn care business is hard to get into and that's my point.

You say the professionals do not like the one that use the junk pickup and junk mowers. Because most of them don't know what they are doing.

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I've seen some so called professionals that don't have a clue and don't care to and are out there for just one thing and that is the money.

They think because they have the big fancy truck full of mowers and hand held equipment they have the right to call themselves professionals and charge those over inflated rates. Yea I also hear and read that people don't mind paying a fair price to have a professional job done but what's a fair price or a professional job??? Sorry but I don't consider seeing a six minute mowing and someone edge with a Trimmer very professional.( Talk about screwing up yards)

They make claims they have to charge those rates to cover there overhead, and they can't compete with the guys that use the junk pickup and junk mowers.

When you see one of us with the big truck and big trailer and the big 60 inch ztrack we have been around for a long time. We spent a long time building up the business.

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Please give me a break :laughing: That's just the attitude I'm talking about, you think everybody owes you because you have a big truck and trailer and a big 60" ztrack that supposedly makes you better than the someone else and I guess gives you the right to degrade everyone else that's trying to break into the business. Pardon me but

I agree there are some professionals that have no clue how to take care of a lawn. But for the most part it does not matter if they are a fly by night company or a so called pro if they don't know what they are doing they won't last long.and no we don't think anyone owes us because we have a nice truck and nice equipment.it just shows we have been around for a long time and put a lot of hard work and pride into are business.I have seen a lot of lawn care companies and I have never seen anyone mow and trim in six minutes.it's hard to believe anyone is stupid enough to use a big ztrack on a lawn that small that is what a walk behind is for. Also I have never degraded anyone I have helped several people that wanted to start a lawn care business.I have owned mine for 24 years started with nothing and built it up to a good business.I'm damned proud of that. Also there are a lot of people that will not hire someone in a beat up truck with beat up mowers. They realize the guys that take pride in there equipment and keep it neat and clean truck included will take pride in there work and do a good job on there lawn

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Lawnpro1969 said:

I agree there are some professionals that have no clue how to take care of a lawn. But for the most part it does not matter if they are a fly by night company or a so called pro if they don't know what they are doing they won't last long. And no we don't think anyone owes us because we have a nice truck and nice equipment.

It just shows we have been around for a long time and put a lot of hard work and pride into are business. I have seen a lot of lawn care companies and I have never seen anyone mow and trim in six minutes. It's hard to believe anyone is stupid enough to use a big z-track on a lawn that small that is what a walk behind is for.

Also I have never degraded anyone I have helped several people that wanted to start a lawn care business. I have owned mine for 24 years started with nothing and built it up to a good business. I'm damned proud of that.

Also there are a lot of people that will not hire someone in a beat up truck with beat up mowers. They realize the guys that take pride in there equipment and keep it neat and clean truck included will take pride in there work and do a good job on there lawn.

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AHH another Professional favorite...

But for the most part it does not matter if they are a fly by night company or a so called pro if they don't know what they are doing they won't last long.

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Now how many times have I heard that one

We could go around and around with this subject but when it comes right down to it a fancy new truck, trailer and mowers doesn't tell how long a guy has been around or been doing the job, or how good he is at the job. That doesn't make a Lawn care professional In fact I think just the opposite.

I have seen a lot of lawn care companies and I have never seen anyone mow and trim in six minutes. It's hard to believe anyone is stupid enough to use a big ztrack on a lawn that small that is what a walk behind is for.

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Yep Six minutes, I've timed him several times. He uses a 60" Dixie Chopper and I start my stop watch on my cell when he backs out of his enclosed trailer and stop when he drives it back on. He rounds all his corners and he never runs the blades speed only half throttle.The guy with the Echo Trimmer is actually running to get the house trimmed and he edges all the sidewalks, driveway, and flower beds with the string trimmer. While he finishes what the the guy that was on the mower blows everything out front off and I never see him go out back and blow off the patio or any of the windows. Then charges the lady $80 monthly I see this all the time when I'm out doing my lawns. It's just not him and believe me I hear it from a lot of people when they call for an estimate on lawn care.

So when I'm postings I think you can understand the Negativity I have towards the Professional side of the Business. I'm 59 years old and I've been Mowing School Campuses, Athletic Fields and Lawns for 30 years the last six in a business of my own. Most of the Professional Lawn Care Businesses and the people in them disappoint me greatly in the way they treat there customers and the public.

Yes the nice equipment says a lot about the company it take time and money to build the business.I'm starting my 25th year in the business and i have seen a lot of fly by night companies come and go. They find out it takes a lot of work to build the business and they don't want to do it.I still can't believe the six minute lawn.but the bottom line with that one is $80 a month is not an over inflated price. That comes out to $20 each time that is pretty cheap. But the real bottom line is the women must be happy if she wasn't she would get rid of him. It still sounds to me like some one just want to complain because there are other companies that have better trucks and equipment.I don't know where you are from but in my area there is a lot of competition in the business. And the fly by night or the ones that do shabby work never last long 1 maybe 2 seasons. In my area when you see the nice truck and nice enclosed trailer and nice equipment they have been around for a while and they do quality work. Maybe you should come to central pa to see how the business is run.

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this whole issue ALSO includes most any trade and/or business not just lawn cutting/landscaping. a person should study the demographics of the area in which he chooses to do business or provide a service. A stand-alone building(service and products related) can attract a certain amount of customers from a very wide area but the core business comes from the immediate area because of the demographics from which it was originally built upon. a MOBILE run business(any) has a more challenging time of WHERE to focus his business from, with what he has to work with in terms of equipment and quality of service he can supply to customer. Customers' expectations of service and proffesionalism can run deep from area to area. i have cut some lawns on some very nice homes and had the homeowner say thats good.... "but not by my standards ma'am"., to the homeowner with a small house/ small lot come out and nitpik every blade of grass.:smile:

Lawnpro1969 said:

Yes the nice equipment says a lot about the company it take time and money to build the business. I'm starting my 25th year in the business and I have seen a lot of fly by night companies come and go.

They find out it takes a lot of work to build the business and they don't want to do it.I still can't believe the six minute lawn.but the bottom line with that one is $80 a month is not an over inflated price. That comes out to $20 each time that is pretty cheap. But the real bottom line is the women must be happy if she wasn't she would get rid of him.

It still sounds to me like some one just want to complain because there are other companies that have better trucks and equipment. I don't know where you are from but in my area there is a lot of competition in the business. And the fly by night or the ones that do shabby work never last long 1 maybe 2 seasons.

In my area when you see the nice truck and nice enclosed trailer and nice equipment they have been around for a while and they do quality work. Maybe you should come to central pa to see how the business is run.

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Lawnpro1969 said:

Yes the nice equipment says a lot about the company it take time and money to build the business. I'm starting my 25th year in the business and I have seen a lot of fly by night companies come and go.

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Equipment doesn't mean a lot unless you have someone that knows how too use it and just because you paid more and it may have more bells and whistles doesn't make it better, as someone in politics said you can put lipstick on a pig but you can't change the fact it's still a pig.

Lawnpro1969 said:

They find out it takes a lot of work to build the business and they don't want to do it.I still can't believe the six minute lawn.but the bottom line with that one is $80 a month is not an over inflated price. That comes out to $20 each time that is pretty cheap. But the real bottom line is the women must be happy if she wasn't she would get rid of him.

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I too have seen a lot of people try to break-in to the business only to see them be discouraged by the larger company's because they couldn't compete, the bottom line is unless you are willing to put in a sizable investment you're not able to make enough money to maintain the business so you basically fail before you get started.

They're large discrepancies in pricing in different parts of the country, here in my location $60 monthly is considered a good price and $80 is a little high but some do get that, but you also have too understand that we or I am in the retirement capitol of Florida. My prices range from $50 to $60 monthly.

Lawnpro1969 said:

It still sounds to me like some one just want to complain because there are other companies that have better trucks and equipment. I don't know where you are from but in my area there is a lot of competition in the business. And the fly by night or the ones that do shabby work never last long 1 maybe 2 seasons.

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:smile: If you could see some of the 1960 and 70 trucks pulling trailers and some of the stuff people use you wouldn't say those things, Heck my 2006 F-150 looks like a Caddy in comparison. I also consider my mowers to be excellent mowers and I sure don't consider my Stihl and Echo equipment to be trash, so no I don't or I'm not complaining about other peoples equipment, I complain about statements like the last one you made.

Lawnpro1969 said:

Maybe you should come to central pa to see how the business is run

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Just like you it's your and there I'm better than you attitudes. :thumbdown: Like you're the only ones that know how to run a Business. Like I said we could go around and around but this will end this up for me.

I don't have an I'm better than you attitude. I have stated that I'm proud of what I have done in the past 24 years. I started the business at age 18 right out of high school no money and old equipment. I spent 24 years working 16 - 18 hour days 7 days a week unlike florida up here we can't work 12 months out of the year unless we get snow. The last couple winters was not good for snow. I built it into a good business when I said to come to central pa. I was not trying to say I'm the only one that can run a business what I was trying to say is up here thing are different. The people in the business up here treat each other with courtesy and respect and try to help each other out. We don't see the 1960 and 1970 trucks up here with the winter salt they don't last that long the rust out after 15 - 18 years. I use John Deere,stihl,and echo equipment I personally think that is the best money can buy.

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My 99 Chevy has some rust above the wheelwells. Does that make me fly by night?

PyhooyaBooya said:

My 99 Chevy has some rust above the wheelwells. Does that make me fly by night?

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Don't think I said that just said here in pa winter salt makes them rust quick.

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This is the Greatest thing about America. We can voice our opinion and at the end of the day,

"We can Agree to Disagree" :laughing::thumbsup: Does any of this really matter? I Think NOT!
Next Subject.:laughing::biggrin:

I'm just giving you crap

Side note...ipads smell. Lol.

I kinda thought so but wasn't sure. I just sniffed my iPad smells ok to me.LOL

Ric equipment does matter much. Doesn't mean you can over charge everyone but it does matter you go out a cut a lawn with a (example) timecutter by toro and then go cut it with a z-master from toro a 190% cut difference.

And lawnpro I do agree with you on keeping my mowers and trucks clean and newer.

Because one Thing I have learned in this biz. Is that impression is everything.

C&R Lawn Care said:

Ric equipment does matter much. Doesn't mean you can over charge everyone but it does matter you go out a cut a lawn with a (example) timecutter by toro and then go cut it with a z-master from toro a 190% cut difference.

And lawnpro I do agree with you on keeping my mowers and trucks clean and newer.

Because one Thing I have learned in this biz. Is that impression is everything.

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Well to a certain degree, possibly equipment could matter as in being well maintained and clean. I agree equipment shouldn't be used to justify price but the fact is that in a great percentage of cases it's used as leverage against the customer to justify a lawn company's price. I can't count the number of times I've heard I have to charge this amount to cover my overhead.

If what you say is true about Impression and keeping mowers and trucks clean and newer and that impression is everything why do I see these guys driving 10 year old trucks and mowers replacing people with all this newer equipment? The answer is that they the costumer are impressed with the job they do not the equipment they do it with and paying an affordable price, it's the end result that counts or impresses people not equipment.


AS far as your comparison of the two Toros cutting lawns and one cutting better than the other, IMO it doesn't hold water. I think when you're trying to compare the quality of cut in mowers you have to figure in the operator in the equation and whether or not the mowers are being used and operated the way they are intended to be used, which I mite add very few people do professional or not.

C&R Lawn Care said:

Ric equipment does matter much. Doesn't mean you can over charge everyone but it does matter you go out a cut a lawn with a (example) timecutter by toro and then go cut it with a z-master from toro a 190% cut difference.

And lawnpro I do agree with you on keeping my mowers and trucks clean and newer.

Because one Thing I have learned in this biz. Is that impression is everything.

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Impression means a lot good quality trucks and equipment and keeping them neat and clean mean a lot.most people assume if you are neat and clean and if you are fussy about your equipment you will be fussy about your work and you will do a good job. And 99% of the time that is true I agree also that equipment does not mean you can over charge. But what do you consider over charging just because someone else is willing to work a lot cheaper does that mean I'm over charging. Isn't the bottom Line customer satisfaction if they are happy with the work and price isn't that what really matters.

Lawnpro1969 said:

Impression means a lot good quality trucks and equipment and keeping them neat and clean mean a lot.most people assume if you are neat and clean and if you are fussy about your equipment you will be fussy about your work and you will do a good job. And 99% of the time that is true I agree also that equipment does not mean you can over charge. But what do you consider over charging just because someone else is willing to work a lot cheaper does that mean I'm over charging. Isn't the bottom Line customer satisfaction if they are happy with the work and price isn't that what really matters.

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Now we gone from clean, newer trucks, newer mowers to good quality trucks and equipment. :wink: Seems our impression factor has come down some what.:smile: Just kidding.

You say having the newer equipment just shows we have been around for a long time and put a lot of hard work and pride into are business. Question.... What about the guy that has all that and more that just broke into the business a month ago. You know today I can go to most any lawn mower shop and have at least three different options of financing available, sign my name on the bottom line and walk out with 30K in mowers and equipment and anyone with a descent credit line can do the same thing, so really newer trucks and equipment doesn't show me or prove to me that you've been around a long time or that you can do the job.

As a customer I really wouldn't care if you showed up with a fancy truck and trailer, nice mowers etc or your equipment came from Lowes or Home Depot if you want to impress me do a real good job on my lawn at a fair price. After all guys it ain't Rocket Science.

Lawnpro1969 said:

But what do you consider over charging just because someone else is willing to work a lot cheaper does that mean I'm over charging. Isn't the bottom Line customer satisfaction if they are happy with the work and price isn't that what really matters.

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Lawn Pro I have a question you said I use John Deere, Stihl and Echo equipment I personally think that is the best money can buy.
How many mowers do you have and how big is your equipment list and what price would you charge for a typical size lawn and Why?

I just Thought I would post a couple of responses from another forum and what others are saying about Image and Impression and how important it is to customers. I think it's interesting what some other businesses are finding out.

First Post
Have you ever provided your customers with a comprehensive "customer survey" in which to gauge what is important to them. What I have found, in my experience, is that most LCO's run around telling themselves that image is everything because THEY want nice things. However, through our extensive "customer surveys" we have found that "professional appearance of equipment" ranks dead last among what is important to our customers. In addition, while equipment came in dead last, "professional appearance of crews" came in second to last.

Our demographic of customers is even or slightly above yours in home costs. The range would be from $175K to $500K. I think if you actively studied what is important to YOUR CUSTOMERS it would greatly affect your expenditures.



second post
Great response.. I have been saying this for years on here....Whereas a professional image is nice, to customers, we are the lawn-boy. I don't care if you are a ten truck operation you're still the lawn guy...We did surveys as well and customers care about, price, dependability, and a decent job. They don't care if your truck is a 2006 or a 1986. They don't care if you mow with a $12,000 ztr or a $99 walmart push mower.

We;re the only ones that care about
Nice trucks
Nice equipment
Uniforms

They care that when they call, someone answers the phone and that they're not paying more than their neighbor.

I agree any fool can walk into a dealer with good credit and leave with the equipment.that's just what it takes to do that only a fool would spend 30- 40 thousand dollars on equipment with out the work to pay for it. My equipment list 1 206 Ford F-350 4x4, 1 2007 chevy 3500 4x4 dump truck 1 2006 chevy Colorado 4x4. 1 8.5' x 20' enclosed trailer 1 7.5 X 16' open trailer 1 7.5' X14' open trailer. 1 J.D. X540 tractor 1 J.D. 455 tractor. 2J.D. Zero turn riders, 1J.D. GS 30 36" walk behind mower, 1 cub cadet 33" walk behind. 5 J.D. 21" walk behind mowers. 2 echo trimmers,2 stihl trimmers, 2 stihl backpack blowers,2 echo handheld blowers. 1 echo stick edger,1 bed edger,1 echo bed redefiner. 1 John Deere 855 mini backhoe.should I continue? Average price I charge is $20 reason is because partly that is average price in my area. Yes over head is part of the price anyone that say otherwise is lying. At $3.75 per gallon of gas you can not do a lawn for $5 or $10 at least you can't if you plan on making any money.I almost forgot to mention gas hedge trimmers 6 of them echo and John Deere. Chain saws 5 of them also echo and John Deere. And before you point it out to me I am aware that for many years echo made the John Deere trimmers chain saws and hedge trimmers

Ric said:

I just Thought I would post a couple of responses from another forum and what others are saying about Image and Impression and how important it is to customers. I think it's interesting what some other businesses are finding out.

First Post
Have you ever provided your customers with a comprehensive "customer survey" in which to gauge what is important to them. What I have found, in my experience, is that most LCO's run around telling themselves that image is everything because THEY want nice things. However, through our extensive "customer surveys" we have found that "professional appearance of equipment" ranks dead last among what is important to our customers. In addition, while equipment came in dead last, "professional appearance of crews" came in second to last.

Our demographic of customers is even or slightly above yours in home costs. The range would be from $175K to $500K. I think if you actively studied what is important to YOUR CUSTOMERS it would greatly affect your expenditures.


second post
Great response.. I have been saying this for years on here....Whereas a professional image is nice, to customers, we are the lawn-boy. I don't care if you are a ten truck operation you're still the lawn guy...We did surveys as well and customers care about, price, dependability, and a decent job. They don't care if your truck is a 2006 or a 1986. They don't care if you mow with a $12,000 ztr or a $99 walmart push mower.

We;re the only ones that care about
Nice trucks
Nice equipment
Uniforms

They care that when they call, someone answers the phone and that they're not paying more than their neighbor.

Click to expand...

This maybe true in some areas in my area customers do care. I have asked customers why they call there answer is your reputation. I have seen your work and you do good work your price is fair. Plus I have seen your equipment anyone that spends the time to keep there truck and equipment that nice is gonna do a nice job on my lawn.

Lawnpro1969 said:

This maybe true in some areas in my area customers do care. I have asked customers why they call there answer is your reputation. I have seen your work and you do good work your price is fair. Plus I have seen your equipment anyone that spends the time to keep there truck and equipment that nice is gonna do a nice job on my lawn.

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It's funny you should say people in your area care, but when I read the thread those postings came from they were posted by an individual in Texas and New York the state that's real close to you. There were others that commented from Indiana and other places with the same findings.


I look at your equipment list and I'm surprised, you talk about having newer trucks but I see you're running 2006 and 2007 trucks and I don't know how old any of your mowers and other equipment is but in my opinion it's irrelevant anyway as I've said before. I just figured you for at least 2010 stuff the way you talked.

You say you have asked your customers why they call and there answer is your reputation. I have seen your work and you do good work your price is fair, Plus I have seen your equipment. Well if you've been honest in what you say that would indicate to me that Reputation is the first reason, Fair Price is the second and last would be your equipment in that order and that's just like the others said in the postings on another forum, equipment ranks dead last to the customer.
Like the guy stated, We did surveys as well and customers care about, price, dependability, and a decent job. They don't care if your truck is a 2006 or a 1986. They don't care if you mow with a $12,000 ztr or a $99 walmart push mower.

We;re the only ones that care about
Nice trucks
Nice equipment
Uniforms.

2006 and 2007 is still pretty new some of my mowers are newer than that some are older. All of mowers look like new also my trucks look like new they are clean inside and outside.no dents or scratches matching tires no oil leeks. Your post made it sound like a 2006 was an antique 2006 is still pretty new. People in my area wouldn't care if you pulled up in a 1975 if it looked good. I use my Colorado to look at jobs and have been told many times if your other equipment looks as good as this truck you have some beautiful equipment. And from that I can assume you will be just as fussy about my lawn and my other work. I have not advertised for work for almost 10 years and I still get more calls than I can handle. All of my work is word of mouth or some one sees me at a job and they stop to ask me to work for them. So as I said before they call because of reputation,quality of work,equipment and me and my workers are neat clean and professional in our appearance and the way we treat people. In my last post I said my average price is $20 that was each week not monthly but you probably assumed that

Lawnpro1969 said:

2006 and 2007 is still pretty new some of my mowers are newer than that some are older. All of mowers look like new also my trucks look like new they are clean inside and outside.no dents or scratches matching tires no oil leeks. Your post made it sound like a 2006 was an antique 2006 is still pretty new. People in my area wouldn't care if you pulled up in a 1975 if it looked good. I use my Colorado to look at jobs and have been told many times if your other equipment looks as good as this truck you have some beautiful equipment. And from that I can assume you will be just as fussy about my lawn and my other work. I have not advertised for work for almost 10 years and I still get more calls than I can handle. All of my work is word of mouth or some one sees me at a job and they stop to ask me to work for them. So as I said before they call because of reputation,quality of work,equipment and me and my workers are neat clean and professional in our appearance and the way we treat people. In my last post I said my average price is $20 that was each week not monthly but you probably assumed that

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A 2006 is not antique by know means but its definitely has warranty issues :smile: Hey I drive a 2006 F-150 with 33,800 miles so I think at the rate I drive I can get another 10 years out of my truck.

As I mentioned before $20 a little high for my taste, I charge $12.50 a cut for a regular lot and $15 a cut for corners and No contracts. I do bill monthly and you pay me for what I do, not what I don't do.

I work in Tees and Shorts regardless of weather and when I do quotes it's the same but people expect it here with the temperatures what they are most of the time. Actually :laughing: I only own one pair of dress pants.

My truck, trailer and equipment is always clean, I in fact clean my mower and equipment with a BR 550 after every lawn I mow, I never drag grass from one place to another.

Most all of my work is word of mouth ( referrals ) or in some cases if someone sees me at a job and they stop to ask me to work for them and in sub-divisions is often. The only form of advertisement I do with regularity is business cards and I have more clients than I can handle.

At one time I traded trucks every 2 years I finally got smart and started keeping my trucks longer.also this is the first good Ford I have had in 15 years. I have no problem with t shirt and shorts my customers wold have no problem with that. There was a fly by night crew in my area a few years ago that wore cut off jeans and no shirts. They were always filthy dirty yes you get dirty in this job but these people looked like they didn't bath in months or maybe years. Customers didn't like that I have been told that my crew always looks professional. You must be doing smaller lawns that would explain the difference between prices. My lawns are between $20 and $75 each time. Most of mine are also billed monthly each time we mow lawn trim with weadeater and blow off driveway and walks. If we weed shrubs or trim shrubs or anything else it's extra.like you business cards are my only advertisement the rest of my work is word of mouth. Also I have people seeing me do a neighbor lawn they like the job done so they stop to ask m to work for them

Lawnpro1969 said:

You must be doing smaller lawns that would explain the difference between prices. My lawns are between $20 and $75 each time. Most of mine are also billed monthly each time we mow lawn trim with weed-eater and blow off driveway and walks. If we weed shrubs or trim shrubs or anything else it's extra.like you business cards are my only advertisement the rest of my work is word of mouth. Also I have people seeing me do a neighbor lawn they like the job done so they stop to ask m to work for them

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Most of my yards are from 1/4 to 1/2 an acre. I Trim the houses with the weed-eater, Mow the lawn, edge all sidewalks, driveways, patios and flower beds with an edger not a weed-eater the way some do and I make sure that the sidewalk edges are blown out and everything including windows are blown off and of course trimming scrubs or pruning trees or cleaning out flower beds is extra. I hope at $75 a cut your doing acres not lawns.

My price has nothing to do with the size of the lawns I do. If I would have kept things the way they were at this time I would have had 80 plus clients but when gas prices increased I gave up four other sub-divisions to someone else who was starting out in the business and reduced my number of clients by almost half but I stayed in the sub-division where I live.

Since I done that I've worked my number of clients back up to 61 and the nice thing is they are all within a three mile radius of my home, in-fact I can mow 26 clients from my home and not drive over four tenths of a mile and everything else is within the three mile radius so I have no mileage to speak of so I can keep my prices affordable.

See the thing is I live in a retirement community, I know people, I know how most are about there money and they have to cut back with the economy and prices the way they are and I knew that a lot of Lawn care businesses were going to be dropped because of the price increases they would have to make to cover there overhead and that's exactly what is happening and I'm picking up all of those clients who dropped the higher price businesses and in reality I've been doing that for a long time anyway. That's why I say customers care about, price, dependability, and a decent job. They don't care what you drive or what you mow with.

By the end of the season I can or could be back up to my 80 without a problem. Like we discussed earlier between word of mouth and being seen when I'm out working, I end up working six days a week.

So when you are doing yards for 12.50 and spending so much time on each of them...is it even possible to make a living out of it? Or is it just a supplementary paycheck?

PyhooyaBooya said:

So when you are doing yards for 12.50 and spending so much time on each of them...is it even possible to make a living out of it? Or is it just a supplementary paycheck?

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You ask is it even possible to make a living out of it? When you ask someone about making a living doing Lawn care I think you have to ask your self what is making a living. One Person version of making a living may not be the same as another. What would you consider making a living?

Everything you said is true Ric atleast here where i live. I have been in the business 10 years, and because i dont conform to their ideal lawn care setup i am a hack.. They all think i should buy a dually, 20' trailer with 2 or 3 mowers, and ztrs at that. In my experience, and feedback from my customers if i come into their yard with a ztr i wont be cutting their grass anymore. I like my s10 its much better on gas, and my 5x8 trailer is all i need. I have 0 overhead, and thats the way you make $$$ not all the BS they claim.. So do it your way Ric you will put more $$ in your pocket, and ignore the "experts" :laughing:

Yes a $75.00 lawn is a big lawn with a lot of trees to trim around. Most of my lawn are a half acre or better some one else said if he used a zero turn his customers would get rid of him. When you are doing a 10 X 10 lawn you don't need a ztr. But for the bigger lawn you need a bigger mower. I travel more than you do my closest one to my house is about 2 mile away. The most I travel I would guess is about 18. - 20 miles away. I would guess in a day I travel 20 - 25 miles a day 6 days a week. My 2006 ford F350 got totaled tonight less than half a mile from my house I got hit by a dump truck

wjjones said:

Everything you said is true Ric at least here where i live. I have been in the business 10 years, and because i don't conform to their ideal lawn care setup i am a hack.. They all think i should buy a dually, 20' trailer with 2 or 3 mowers, and ztrs at that. In my experience, and feedback from my customers if i come into their yard with a ztr i wont be cutting their grass anymore. I like my s10 its much better on gas, and my 5x8 trailer is all i need. I have 0 overhead, and that's the way you make $$$ not all the BS they claim.. So do it your way Ric you will put more $$ in your pocket, and ignore the "experts" :laughing:

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Some one wrote an article on How To Fail At Lawn Care and it was real interesting. It basically centered around growing your business to the point of going out of business. There's a lot to be said for being a small business, like you said 0 overhead, I owe nothing to nobody for my equipment, I don't have too worry about employees and all the insurance and all the hassles that goes along with them. Staying small has its benefits. If you're smart and keep your clients and routes close you spend more time mowing and on the job making money instead of on the highway spending it.

I do know what your talking about or coming from about not conforming and being called a hack and a lowballer if you don't do there way, I guess I've never conformed well but ya know it makes me feel good when that guy with a dually, 20' trailer with 2 or 3 mowers comes pulling up and finds you doing a lawn he was doing last week Yea they can call me what they want just don't call me when I'm going to the bank.

Lawnpro1969 said:

Yes a $75.00 lawn is a big lawn with a lot of trees to trim around. Most of my lawn are a half acre or better some one else said if he used a zero turn his customers would get rid of him. When you are doing a 10 X 10 lawn you don't need a ztr. But for the bigger lawn you need a bigger mower. I travel more than you do my closest one to my house is about 2 mile away. The most I travel I would guess is about 18. - 20 miles away. I would guess in a day I travel 20 - 25 miles a day 6 days a week. My 2006 ford F350 got totaled tonight less than half a mile from my house I got hit by a dump truck

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Sorry to hear about your truck Lawnpro1969 hey man as long as you are ok you can get another truck.. On the other subject my longest drive was 56 miles but it was a good commercial yard i got $150 for about 40 mins work.., and had 2 other accounts close to it that where $75 each so it made it worth the drive. I would love to get a ztr but my customers now dont like them sooo i just use my old lawn tractor. I do use a bunton 61" ztr for one lawn though time is $$, and zts are the best for time.. Good luck with your truck...:smile:

ZTR are great for time they also do a beautiful job cutting. Problem if not used properly they can tear up the turf. I got hit broad side yesterday by another landscaper. He lost control going to fast on wet roads while towing a bobcat. I'm ok hurting a lot today lucky I have a second truck.I will be glad to get the ford replaced wort part about the whole thing. Was this is the best ford I ever owned one of the best trucks I ever had. It was a gas hog but it run great 5.4 gas engine would push or pull anything.

Lawnpro1969 said:

ZTR are great for time they also do a beautiful job cutting. Problem if not used properly they can tear up the turf. I got hit broad side yesterday by another landscaper. He lost control going to fast on wet roads while towing a bobcat. I'm ok hurting a lot today lucky I have a second truck.I will be glad to get the ford replaced wort part about the whole thing. Was this is the best ford I ever owned one of the best trucks I ever had. It was a gas hog but it run great 5.4 gas engine would push or pull anything.

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Yep that Bunton i use does about 13 mph a little to fast but as you said it will tear up a yard quick if not careful.. Your gonna be sore for awhile i bet but it could have been worse, and its good you got another truck.

I usually don't post on random issues like this but after reading 4 pages, I thought I would chime in. Ric, you seem to be having an issue with 1 lawn contractor in your area. You post a rant, and paint all lawn contractor with the same brush. Ranting is fine, sometimes you need to get it off your chest but by saying all lawn contractors are over-charging because they need to pay for their high priced trucks, trailers and equipment is just insulting.
You have 61 or so clients, be happy. You have filled a market that other contractor can't do or don't want to do. You also seem to be doing something right to keep those clients, I also believe image to be important, big difference between good image and irrogant image. Sounds like you have a good image in your community since most of your clients are in your area. People skills are equally important.
My point Ric, I don't mind your rant but please don't paint all lawn care professionals with the same brush.:thumbsup:

camaroz said:

I usually don't post on random issues like this but after reading 4 pages, I thought I would chime in. Ric, you seem to be having an issue with 1 lawn contractor in your area. You post a rant, and paint all lawn contractor with the same brush. Ranting is fine, sometimes you need to get it off your chest but by saying all lawn contractors are over-charging because they need to pay for their high priced trucks, trailers and equipment is just insulting.
You have 61 or so clients, be happy. You have filled a market that other contractor can't do or don't want to do. You also seem to be doing something right to keep those clients, I also believe image to be important, big difference between good image and arrogant image. Sounds like you have a good image in your community since most of your clients are in your area. People skills are equally important.
My point Ric, I don't mind your rant but please don't paint all lawn care professionals with the same brush.:thumbsup:

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Actually I don't have an issue with any in particular and it's not just my area or state that I'm referring too. I just know what I see, what I read on forums and what the majority do and don't do. There arrogant attitudes that they have and how they continually run down the new guy that's out trying to survive, referring to them as Hacks and Lowballers and then to see the jobs they these so called Professionals do is unbelievable.

I read post after post of how they charge and what they charge and they brag that they don't drop a gate unless they can make $50 to $60 a hour. Please


They use the term Professional to boast about themselves and to justify there prices when personally I think there's no such thing in Lawn care as a Professional, I mean really it's not like the guy has gone and taken years of schooling and spent all kinds of money to become a Doctor or a Lawyer and yet they use the term Professional when they use a weedeater to edge sidewalks.

Yes, I understand what you are saying....I guess in this case, professional should be used loosely. Kinda like, when I am not working I am a golf professional.
BTW, I am not in the lawn care business. I came to this site because I like to restore/work on lawn tractors. So what I said about painting all with one brush, that is how I felt when I read your post. Maybe I read to much into your post. I will take this post as rant done. Time to move on..hard to change the things we can't change. Like someone said, laughing all the way to the bank could be the best revenge!!!
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yep let them talk if they want to if you are like me, and i know you are you go to bed at night with a clean conchense..:smile:

I disagree there are some of us that went to school.I do lawn care and landscaping I have 20 or 25 books on lawn care.I'm a certified pesticide applicator. There is more to being a lawn care professional than cutting grass. Knowing what height to cut it when to cut it.changing directions knowing how to identify weeds what to put on them when to put it on.just cutting grass does not make a person a lawn care pro.but I think there is a true lawn care pro and you can go to school to learn about it. I have spent a lot of time in schools taking classes and reading books computer programs. I even have a lawn care app on my iPhone.

Lawnpro1969 said:

I disagree there are some of us that went to school.I do lawn care and landscaping I have 20 or 25 books on lawn care.I'm a certified pesticide applicator. There is more to being a lawn care professional than cutting grass. Knowing what height to cut it when to cut it.changing directions knowing how to identify weeds what to put on them when to put it on.just cutting grass does not make a person a lawn care pro.but I think there is a true lawn care pro and you can go to school to learn about it. I have spent a lot of time in schools taking classes and reading books computer programs. I even have a lawn care app on my iPhone.

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Yea I don't doubt that there are some that went to school, I also have over 1900 hrs of going to school for lawn care but all those hours doesn't give me professional status.

As far as being a certified pesticide applicator, if it's something you want to do great. All Florida requires is the completion of 24 semester hours of entomology and pest-control classes to be certified. A University of Florida program allows candidates to complete the required courses over the internet.

See my point is to do the jobs we do you need next to nothing, No proof, No classes, No Degrees nothing. Have a High School Diploma or a GED, which should in-able you to read and write (although that's debatable) so you can fill out the little paper work they give you and the next thing they give you is a paper with your businesses name on for $35.00 does that make a professional. I don't think so.

Like you said there's more to being a lawn care professional than cutting grass and that's exactly why there are very, very, few if any. There Mow and Go businesses. IMO 90% of the outfits today don't care about the people they work for, they don't care about the lawns they cut, all they care about is the almighty dollar.

If you want professional status you have to earn it with the work you do, not with the piece of paper.

Ric said:

Yea I don't doubt that there are some that went to school, I also have over 1900 hrs of going to school for lawn care but all those hours doesn't give me professional status.

As far as being a certified pesticide applicator, if it's something you want to do great. All Florida requires is the completion of 24 semester hours of entomology and pest-control classes to be certified. A University of Florida program allows candidates to complete the required courses over the internet.

See my point is to do the jobs we do you need next to nothing, No proof, No classes, No Degrees nothing. Have a High School Diploma or a GED, which should in-able you to read and write (although that's debatable) so you can fill out the little paper work they give you and the next thing they give you is a paper with your businesses name on for $35.00 does that make a professional. <img src="http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2379"/> I don't think so.

Like you said there's more to being a lawn care professional than cutting grass and that's exactly why there are very, very, few if any. There Mow and Go businesses. IMO 90% of the outfits today don't care about the people they work for, they don't care about the lawns they cut, all they care about is the almighty dollar.

If you want professional status you have to earn it with the work you do, not with the piece of paper.

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I agree best way to earn that status is with the work you do. Like Florida in my are of there is a lot of mow and go contractors. Up here a lot of them don't last long because of the shabby work they do. To be certified up here is a little harder we have to keep up are credits to keep the certification which requires going to more school.like you also said a lot don't care about the people I spend a lot of extra time at each lawn making sure they are happy. I also take time to talk to them do extra stuff for them. My customers often ask me to bring them there mail. Take the garbage can to the road carry something heavy from the car. They are mostly retired and are both friends and customers I'm one of the few that take time to actually talk to my customers and treat them right. I love my job and the people I deal with are great. I even have one couple that make lunch for me when I'm there if They are my last one he even brings me a beer after I'm done

Lawnpro1969 said:

I agree best way to earn that status is with the work you do. Like Florida in my are of there is a lot of mow and go contractors. Up here a lot of them don't last long because of the shabby work they do. To be certified up here is a little harder we have to keep up are credits to keep the certification which requires going to more school.like you also said a lot don't care about the people I spend a lot of extra time at each lawn making sure they are happy. I also take time to talk to them do extra stuff for them. My customers often ask me to bring them there mail. Take the garbage can to the road carry something heavy from the car. They are mostly retired and are both friends and customers I'm one of the few that take time to actually talk to my customers and treat them right. I love my job and the people I deal with are great. I even have one couple that make lunch for me when I'm there if They are my last one he even brings me a beer after I'm done

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It's funny you should mention spending extra time at each lawn and making sure that the client is happy and in another post PyhooyaBooya mentioned something about spending so much time on each of them and if it was even possible to make a living out of it doing that at my prices. Well like you I start early and I do much of the same things, move the garbage can from the road, put the newspaper at the front door, heck I even took the time to check out a ladies garbage disposal the other day and she is supposed to pick up a new one next week for me to install.

Spending thirty minutes a lawn is not a lot of time and you can often pick up extra work if you can save someone a little time and money, like the $180 extra I made for removing some small trees and branches the other day or possibly gaining another client which I have done on occasion. You'd be amazed at what people will do and say when they see someone actually spend that much time on a lawn.

Treating people right can go a long way in the business and yes PyhooyaBooya I make a decent living out of it, I'm not getting rich but it pays the bills.

I forgot one lady I work for she is an older lady 70 maybe 75. She would do her own lawn she had a hard time getting rid of the grass clippings. I do 4 of her neighbors I would take her grass clipping with me every week no charge. She hurt her back guess who is doing her grass now me. Also picked up 2 more neighbors. Treating the good makes all the difference in the world. I even send Christmas cards flowers to some of them. Flowers to a funeral of a spouse.I have even brought them tomatoes from my garden. I forgot a couple years ago I had a customer give a 1995 jeep wagoner that was in great shape it just needed a battery. Also Ric I would like to apologies to you. I totally miss judged you. I thought you
Were one of these new guys that was just trying to start out. And was mad at all the one that have been around for awhile. There are some out there that get mad at others that are doing good at there job. They don't realize what it takes to make it. It takes time to built the business and patience and a lot of hard work.

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Lawnpro1969 said:

I forgot one lady I work for she is an older lady 70 maybe 75. She would do her own lawn she had a hard time getting rid of the grass clippings. I do 4 of her neighbors I would take her grass clipping with me every week no charge. She hurt her back guess who is doing her grass now me. Also picked up 2 more neighbors. Treating the good makes all the difference in the world. I even send Christmas cards flowers to some of them. Flowers to a funeral of a spouse.I have even brought them tomatoes from my garden. I forgot a couple years ago I had a customer give a 1995 jeep wagoner that was in great shape it just needed a battery. Also Ric I would like to apologies to you. I totally miss judged you. I thought you
Were one of these new guys that was just trying to start out. And was mad at all the one that have been around for awhile. There are some out there that get mad at others that are doing good at there job. They don't realize what it takes to make it. It takes time to built the business and patience and a lot of hard work.

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

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Well I appreciate the apology but it's not really needed. You wouldn't be the first one who has miss judged me and probably wont be the last. I guess maybe I do things a little different than most and I can be pretty opinionated and it doesn't jive with some of the upper echelon members here.

Lawnpro1969 said:

I don't have an I'm better than you attitude. I have stated that I'm proud of what I have done in the past 24 years. I started the business at age 18 right out of high school no money and old equipment. I spent 24 years working 16 - 18 hour days 7 days a week unlike florida up here we can't work 12 months out of the year unless we get snow. The last couple winters was not good for snow. I built it into a good business when I said to come to central pa. I was not trying to say I'm the only one that can run a business what I was trying to say is up here thing are different. The people in the business up here treat each other with courtesy and respect and try to help each other out. We don't see the 1960 and 1970 trucks up here with the winter salt they don't last that long the rust out after 15 - 18 years. I use John Deere,stihl,and echo equipment I personally think that is the best money can buy.

Sent from my iPad using LMF

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Congratulations!
I believe you're so excellent. How's your curent business? Please tell more and share your experiences!
:smile:

What would you like to know? business is good going through a hot dry spell but doing other work instead of mowing grass.trimming shrubs mulching and other landscaping until we get enough rain to make the grass green and grow again.

Lawnpro1969 said:

What would you like to know? business is good going through a hot dry spell but doing other work instead of mowing grass.trimming shrubs mulching and other landscaping until we get enough rain to make the grass green and grow again.

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I believe there're many companies and other small business. How do you get contracts?

Sorry it took awhile to respond been really busy. When I started out there was not a lot of people in this business.basically I worked my tail off doing good work at reasonable price.treated the customers good with courtesy and respect. Passed out a lot of cards put them on people cars at the local shopping center.went door to door a lot. know I get a lot by word of mouth some from my add in the phone book and a get some by just being very out going and friendly. I like talking to people and have no problem nocking on a door if the grass is high and giving them a card

Lawnpro1969 said:

Sorry it took awhile to respond been really busy. When I started out there was not a lot of people in this business.basically I worked my tail off doing good work at reasonable price.treated the customers good with courtesy and respect. Passed out a lot of cards put them on people cars at the local shopping center.went door to door a lot. know I get a lot by word of mouth some from my add in the phone book and a get some by just being very out going and friendly. I like talking to people and have no problem nocking on a door if the grass is high and giving them a card

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Excellent strategy! Execcelent experiences!
Tks so much! I'll always want to hear you about your business. I think it's interesting.

Well, let me give you all a perspective from someone not in the business. I expect anyone I pay to do my yard to do a good job for a fair price. Fancy trucks, equipment and uniforms all add up to company overhead that I, as a consumer don't want to pay for. When I see that I automatically think "They charge too much." That means too much for me, not necessarily too much for the service. When it comes to hiring someone to do my yard (which I haven't in years), I don't care if its one guy that takes 2 hours or 4 guys working at once on various tasks to get it done in 20 minutes, as long as the end result is the same. The one guy that has one push mower, one trimmer, a blower, and maybe an edger that all fits in the back of his 25 year old p/u truck and charges me $40 - 50 to do the yard will win out every time over the crew with expensive machinery that gets it done in 20 minutes but charges $75 or more. The business is kind of a vicious circle I think. The small guy with the old p/u truck, only one of everything and virtually no overhead makes good and ends up with a large company with fancy machinery and multiple crews and much more overhead than he used to. Therefore his prices go up and in some cases he gets undercut by the new small guy. A natural animosity develops between the big guy who sees someone taking his business and the small guy that says the big guy is trying to hold him down. As is human nature, we try to limit our competition. Unfortunately, the way we go about it is sometimes distasteful, which is also human nature.

Oddball said:

Well, let me give you all a perspective from someone not in the business. I expect anyone I pay to do my yard to do a good job for a fair price. Fancy trucks, equipment and uniforms all add up to company overhead that I, as a consumer don't want to pay for. When I see that I automatically think "They charge too much." That means too much for me, not necessarily too much for the service. When it comes to hiring someone to do my yard (which I haven't in years), I don't care if its one guy that takes 2 hours or 4 guys working at once on various tasks to get it done in 20 minutes, as long as the end result is the same. The one guy that has one push mower, one trimmer, a blower, and maybe an edger that all fits in the back of his 25 year old p/u truck and charges me $40 - 50 to do the yard will win out every time over the crew with expensive machinery that gets it done in 20 minutes but charges $75 or more. The business is kind of a vicious circle I think. The small guy with the old p/u truck, only one of everything and virtually no overhead makes good and ends up with a large company with fancy machinery and multiple crews and much more overhead than he used to. Therefore his prices go up and in some cases he gets undercut by the new small guy. A natural animosity develops between the big guy who sees someone taking his business and the small guy that says the big guy is trying to hold him down. As is human nature, we try to limit our competition. Unfortunately, the way we go about it is sometimes distasteful, which is also human nature.

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Just because you expect every one you pay to do a good job cheep does not mean it is gonna happen. I said cheap there is a difference between a fair price and cheap I can tell cheap is what you want. I have no problem with the one man crew with the old truck and one of everything . I was that at one time myself. My prices stayed the same as I grew and got better equipment. Me and my crew still do good work at a reasonable price. When you say you would rather have the one man crew with a 25 year old truck and only one mower because his work is cheap. Tell me that when his mower breaks down or his truck breaks down and it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get fixed. And your grass is knee high because he has not been able to make it to cut it. You need extra of everything just for that reason last month one of my trucks was hit and it was a total loss. If I wouldn't have had an extra truck I would be out of business because the other persons insurance company is still screwing me around. Also you are one of the few that say it does not matter how they show up on the property. Most people want a neat clean respectable looking crew on there property

Lawnpro1969 said:

Just because you expect every one you pay to do a good job cheep does not mean it is gonna happen. I said cheap there is a difference between a fair price and cheap I can tell cheap is what you want. I have no problem with the one man crew with the old truck and one of everything . I was that at one time myself. My prices stayed the same as I grew and got better equipment. Me and my crew still do good work at a reasonable price. When you say you would rather have the one man crew with a 25 year old truck and only one mower because his work is cheap. Tell me that when his mower breaks down or his truck breaks down and it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get fixed. And your grass is knee high because he has not been able to make it to cut it. You need extra of everything just for that reason last month one of my trucks was hit and it was a total loss. If I wouldn't have had an extra truck I would be out of business because the other persons insurance company is still screwing me around. Also you are one of the few that say it does not matter how they show up on the property. Most people want a neat clean respectable looking crew on there property

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No, cheap isn't what I want. Value is what I want, and when I pay someone $60 for 20 minutes work, I just somehow feel I'm overpaying, no matter how good a job they do. Why would I pay a landscaping company $60, 70, 80 or more to send a crew out to do my yard in 20 minutes when I can pay one guy maybe half that for the same quality work? I fired just such a company one time at a rental property I owned and hired a one man operation that was recommended to me. He did a better job for considerably less money. As his business grew he bought expensive machinery and turned into the exact thing I hired him to replace. His work got sloppy because he was in a rush to get done and on to the next job, and his prices went up, so I moved on again. The one man operation is hungry and is willing to work harder for less money, that's what I'm after. I get good service at a better price. Its all moot anyway as I haven't hired out my yard work in a long time. I do a better job than any company I could hire, and if I get lazy one week and skip the edging, well, I've got no one to complain to but myself. Now, if I need some serious landscaping done, sod laid, irrigation installed, flower beds designed and installed, etc., then I can see paying a professional company to do it. But just to come out and cut, trim, edge, etc. I'll hire a little guy.

Oddball said:

No, cheap isn't what I want. Value is what I want, and when I pay someone $60 for 20 minutes work, I just somehow feel I'm overpaying, no matter how good a job they do. Why would I pay a landscaping company $60, 70, 80 or more to send a crew out to do my yard in 20 minutes when I can pay one guy maybe half that for the same quality work? I fired just such a company one time at a rental property I owned and hired a one man operation that was recommended to me. He did a better job for considerably less money. As his business grew he bought expensive machinery and turned into the exact thing I hired him to replace. His work got sloppy because he was in a rush to get done and on to the next job, and his prices went up, so I moved on again. The one man operation is hungry and is willing to work harder for less money, that's what I'm after. I get good service at a better price. Its all moot anyway as I haven't hired out my yard work in a long time. I do a better job than any company I could hire, and if I get lazy one week and skip the edging, well, I've got no one to complain to but myself. Now, if I need some serious landscaping done, sod laid, irrigation installed, flower beds designed and installed, etc., then I can see paying a professional company to do it. But just to come out and cut, trim, edge, etc. I'll hire a little guy.

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You say Value is what I want and most people want the same. Most of the big professional crews are being replaced with the one and two men operations today because people are looking for the value in lawn care. The one man operation will generally do better work than the bigger outfits and put in more time on a lawn to do it and do it for considerably less money, not because they have to or they're slow but they have to do a better job to compete with the bigger outfits and they do that with less overhead.
The problem I see with these bigger outfits is that they are ten minute cut and run deals and most don't pay attention to detail work and they leave the job half done when they leave and then they brag about how many lawns they do in a day.
It was said that people want a neat clean respectable looking crew on there property and there's nothing wrong with being clean respectable but what defines C&R. In all actuality 85% of the people I do lawn care for are not at home when I'm there to see me :smile: so why do they care if I show up in a Tee and Cargo shorts or not as long as the job gets done and they are satisfied.
I do agree with Lawn pro about equipment, you need two and three of everything to run a business because as a small business I can't afford down time and most people are not willing to here the excuses.

Ric said:

You say Value is what I want and most people want the same. Most of the big professional crews are being replaced with the one and two men operations today because people are looking for the value in lawn care. The one man operation will generally do better work than the bigger outfits and put in more time on a lawn to do it and do it for considerably less money, not because they have to or they're slow but they have to do a better job to compete with the bigger outfits and they do that with less overhead.
The problem I see with these bigger outfits is that they are ten minute cut and run deals and most don't pay attention to detail work and they leave the job half done when they leave and then they brag about how many lawns they do in a day.
It was said that people want a neat clean respectable looking crew on there property and there's nothing wrong with being clean respectable but what defines C&R. In all actuality 85% of the people I do lawn care for are not at home when I'm there to see me :smile: so why do they care if I show up in a Tee and Cargo shorts or not as long as the job gets done and they are satisfied.
I do agree with Lawn pro about equipment, you need two and three of everything to run a business because as a small business I can't afford down time and most people are not willing to here the excuses.

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hey ric, good stuff there,just a couple thoughts though,i know its tough to compete with the biggies (i'm solo and slowly getting away from the workload with age) but should the price be 'considerably less' than the biggies?.i've tried to be 'near' the higher end of the scale and still, like you say do a lot better job than the biggies.i think its a little easier to drop to a lower price to a client than it is to raise it because of some economic reasons etc. (higher fuel prices).after all we small ops have to pay bills and save for a rainy day too.medical costs these days are unreal if a person has to check into get worked on.then my thoughts on C&R. other than the client not being home to see your appearance,there are the 'scoping you out' neighbors(potential clients) and the getting out at the gas station or the store or wherever you may be when in transit to the next house.all those people are potential customers just my thoughts :biggrin:carry on

Not all of the bigger companies are in and out in ten minutes. There are some of us that take the extra time needed to do a good job. A lot of my customers are older people and retired so the neat and clean means a lot.They are home most of the time when I'm there. Like I said in an earlier post a couple years ago there was a company in my area that there crew was always in cut off shorts no shirt and filthy dirty.they only lasted a couple years then went out of business.also as someone else stated the people you meet at the gas station or when stopping for lunch are all potential customers.I have picked up several customers at gas stations somebody pulls in beside me while I'm filling up equipment they ask if I'm looking for any new customers and give me there name and phone number.

LandN said:

hey ric, good stuff there,just a couple thoughts though,i know its tough to compete with the biggies (i'm solo and slowly getting away from the workload with age) but should the price be 'considerably less' than the biggies?.i've tried to be 'near' the higher end of the scale and still, like you say do a lot better job than the biggies.i think its a little easier to drop to a lower price to a client than it is to raise it because of some economic reasons etc. (higher fuel prices).after all we small ops have to pay bills and save for a rainy day too.medical costs these days are unreal if a person has to check into get worked on.then my thoughts on C&R. other than the client not being home to see your appearance,there are the 'scoping you out' neighbors(potential clients) and the getting out at the gas station or the store or wherever you may be when in transit to the next house.all those people are potential customers just my thoughts :biggrin:carry on

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The question of pricing is a subject that's always been open for debate. If you ask the bigger company's about pricing and the smaller businesses pricing structure naturally the comeback is the little guy is a Hack or a Lowballer which intern becomes there excuse for there pricing. The little guy on the other hand will say I charge what I have too to cover my cost, pay my bills and have a few dollars besides and that's basically what I do.

Being C&R can be done without bumping ones overhead for uniforms with a company name and logo. As someone else stated when I see that it just means added cost that people don't want to pay for. People look for price, reliability, and a job being done correctly.

I think if you set down and actually think about what these bigger outfit claim and say about what matters to people and what they want it's basically a fabrication to justify the money they've spent and what they have to make to cover there overhead. I come to that conclusion because If what they say were true He-- you wouldn't have to worry about the little guy with his cheaper prices because he wouldn't exist and as we all know the little guys are coming out of the wood work.