Hello everyone, new member here...at wits end. Mower worked great all last season, wanted to run it "one last time" in the fall, but it was high 40's/ low 50's and I could not get it to start...killed my shoulder trying. Put it away for the winter, figuring some warmer weather would help it, as it ran fine the week before. Gas stabilized before storing.
Warmer weather arrives..still no start (not even a pop). Check plug, looks good, sparks well when pulled over. Drain fuel tank and purchase new fuel, still nothing. Tear apart carb and check/ clean. No sediment, carb very clean. Re-assemble and still can't get anything. Spray starting fluid, and mower wants to fire and rip my arm off, but will not turn over and run. Checked oil, as I know there is a low oil sensor. Oil fresh and full. I am thinking it is in the linkage somehow...even though it went away working fine. I did apply a heat gun to the wax choke, and the rod did extend nicely. I have been working on this too long, and am getting very frustrated...did I miss anything? Any hints or tips to try?
I drained the tank with the hose to the carb, and fuel was flowing well.
Carb was cleaned well. Brass pipe had a wire pushed through the holes, carb cleaner sprayed through. Needle was clean and smooth...might I be missing a passage? Don't think the plug was overly wet, sure feels like it is not getting fuel. Linkage adjustment?
Thanks for the reply,
Joe
#4
trekgod3
Not to sound like a jerk, but is the fuel valve open? I shut mine off and run the mower until it stops before storing it. It's an easy thing to overlook.
Remove the float bowl, put a dish under the carb and turn the fuel on.
work the float with your finger to verify you get a good flow and the flow does not stop till the float is parallel to the carb floor but stops completely before the float hits the carb floor.
Check you assembled the tap correctly if the fuel supply is too slow.
When the main jet is unscrewed , you can then remove the emulsion tube by pressing down on it from inside the carb throat.
There are around 20 cross drilled holes in the tube & they all have to be clean.
If this checks out, pull the entire carb off and connect the fuel line.
Turn it at right angles and blow through it with high volume low pressure air.
If you get a nice mist of fuel & air coming out the engine side then the carb is fine so time to look hard at the timing and valves.
Does your HRX have an automatic choke or the adjustable choke with the lever on the handle incorporated into the throttle control? If it has an automatic choke, it may need to be replaced.
My bad, I did not read the full thread properly.
If it rips the chord out of your hands when trying to start then the timing is out
Pull the flywheel off & check the timing key.
Mower engines have a very small amount of retardation to allow you to pull start them so even a crack in the timing key can put them in the unstartable zone.
Bertsmobile, thanks for the lead. Sounds like a lot of work for a “new” mower. Is this a common problem? It only tries to rip the cord out of my hand when I spray starting fluid into it (ether).
It appears that the wax choke is working properly, the rod is in, and will come out when heated with a heat gun.
I redid the carb this morning following the tutorial in the faq’s ...going to reassemble and see what happens. I will post an update later
Ok, I have been working on it all morning....no luck.
Carb appears to be fine, but spark plug does not really seem wet after repeated pulls. I even blew air up into the tank in case there was something gunking up in there. Nice fuel flow from the line.
I have removed the engine cover and the crank nut, but my flywheel pullers are too small. I can borrow some tonight at work. I can see the key wedged in the crank, but that does not mean it is in the slot. It did go away running...but not sure of any backfires. I will report back.
I am going to try and attach pictures, take a look and see if anything looks out of whack.
Put the nut / bolt back on but short 1 thread from being finger tight
Put a wrecking bar under the flywheel in a position where you could lever it off
Put a lot of weight on the bar then smack the flywheel nut/bolt, the flywheel should pop free of the taper.
Did you try blowing through the carb to verify it is atomizing the fuel & passing it through to the engine like I asked ?
Didn't really understand blowing the air through....did you just want me to blow air through the carb, and see if it atomizes? choke and throttle plate open, but connected to the gas line?
Didn't really understand blowing the air through....did you just want me to blow air through the carb, and see if it atomizes? choke and throttle plate open, but connected to the gas line?
Exactly.
If the carb is atomizing fuel then that eliminates it from the no start problem provided the choke closes fully.
It is a process of elimination
Once everything that IS working properly all you are left with is what is not working.
BEcause we all have a slightly different approach & some one was already assisting you I did not ask you to follow my usual route, but rather to carry on with what they had you doing.
I blew air through the carb this morning, and it did indeed atomize the fuel. I guess we can rule that out.
I was thinking that the reason the ether wants to rip your arm off is because it is altering the ignition timing due to its increased combustability if that is a word??
That pretty much leaves timing or a stuck valve . . . I don't recall . . . have you checked compression? Easier to pull the valve cover than the flywheel, and I can see a valve binding in storage, but not a timing shift . . .
Correct, and if either valve develops excessive clearance due to not closing. If so, you might be able to push it further open and free it up . . . I have heard of a few cases where engines that inadvertently had a valve fully open when shut down had it stick open after storage. If you have a compression tester, that would tell you as well.
That pretty much leaves timing or a stuck valve . . . I don't recall . . . have you checked compression? Easier to pull the valve cover than the flywheel, and I can see a valve binding in storage, but not a timing shift . . .
I said timing, and lash doesn't automagically change when you put the mower away (running fine) for the season, so I tended to leave out the seriously unlikely possibilities at this time. (And frankly, since it was running when he put it up, I doubt this is an ignition timing issue either . . . . again, something that does not happen from sitting not running . . .). My favorite right now, since fuel appears to have been verified is a hung up valve . . . that can and does happen from sitting idle . . . albeit rarely . . .
Not meaning to get into a big blue, bu a single backfire can crack or split the the timing key.
An engine with out of spec valve lash can work fine all season but when left over winter and the oil drains out of the ring slots can become impossible to start next season
And yes a stuck exhaust valve is very common over winter but that would not cause a pull back and excessive compression unless it was causing coil bind on the valve spring.
A stuck inlet blows back through the carb.
It is one thing to have the mower in our respective workshops and another to have it at some one elses house and a person other than ones self working on it.
I have a proceedure of testing a non starter and I am sure you have one that works just as well as mine.
However we are working with some one with limited knowledge , understanding or experience so we have to cover all bases , from first principles.
In my case it is fuel availability which has been verified .
Next I go to spark timing which is very easy to verify for a small engine novice as it is visual .
After that we go to harder to verify things like a stuck ACR, stuck valve, out of time engine.
What has come into the workshop was an engine that jumped a tooth on the timing belt because the belt got dry and rusted onto the cam sprocket.
I gotta admit, my mind has been centered on the GX engines, which, being gear timed, you pretty much have to break the block, cam, or crank for them to jump valve timing if it has not been opened. And I still doubt that his engine could have backfired while in storage and lost ignition timing . . . I agree that happens, but the result is typically immediately visible, not months later, and timing shouldn't move simply due to trying to start it . . . unless the flywheel nut is both falling off *and* the key is broken, which was pretty much contradicted when he said it would not come off (the loose nut at least). As long as the flywheel sits on a taper, I doubt the key sees much of the load *if* the torque is correct, acting more as an installation alignment aid, but never say never . . .
But, as noted, I don't do much with the consumer grade Hondas, so they may well have quirks I don't see in a GX series . . .
So, we agree to check most to least likely, easiest to hardest . . .
I assume from all of your attempted work that this machine is out of warranty? I know the model has been around for a while but these carry a 5 year consumer warranty. Either way, these problems can be frustrating especially when these Honda engines are typically reliable. I had an issue with my HRX where I tipped it the wrong way (carb down) and oil got past and into the carb. It resulted in a carb replacement and some trouble connecting the rods for the auto choke before I was able to get it to run. I am sure that with your extensive work on the fuel system that the issue is more "mechanical" in which I know nothing about. It might require a complete tear-down to figure out what is going on. I am not sure of how much time and money it will take to repair the engine but a new engine can be had for under $200 or a used one can be pulled off of a Honda powered pressure washer or something similar in which the engine can be fitted up without modifications. Just a thought. . . . .
Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone. Decided today after putting it all back together... and pulling the starter rope a few dozen times, that it indeed is headed to the Honda repair guy. I just don’t have any more mornings to waste on this mower. I feel like I could have found the problem, and I am sure in the end it is going to be something really stupid.
Thank you to everyone that tried to help troubleshoot with me. I will let everyone know the outcome.
Mower back from shop....they did a normal service of- Changing Plug, Changing air filter, cleaning carb and changing the oil. They also sharpened the blades.
I am told that the "belt was off, and wrapped up, and that is why it would not start" . I never did check the drive belt or see if anything was wrapped up??
All I know, is it starts first pull.....
Thank you again for all the trouble shooting help!
