Export thread

This is a general question for those who worked with older equipment. I was looking at some older (ie. 1970's) riding mowers. Most of them have less rated horsepower, like around 8-12 hp, but they look heavier with bigger frames and more metal than plastic constructions, which would seem to require more power to propel. So my question is, are today's mowers really more powerful, or are the HP figures inflated due to some different measurement methods?

Yes, the newer mowers really are more powerful, faster and more productive. Although propelling the mower does require some power, it's the business end of the mower, the blades, that consume most of it.

You are right that the older mowers had lower hp engines. I don't know if they had more torque then todays engines, since the emissions stuff tends to lean out the new engines. But the other thing is horsepower sells mowers. Nothing more nothing less.

Add to that the popularity of hydro drives.
Hydros gobble up power as do differentials
I run a lot of mowers from the 60's
All mechanical gearboxes.
Easy for the operator = harder for the machine.
Lazyness costs money every where from TV's right through to lawnmowers

Generally mowers with variable pulleys will have a smaller engine than the same one with a hydro drive.
And of course if you are talking about anything a man buys, size IS Important be it the engine in you car, chainsaw or mower. :laughing:

bertsmobile1 said:

Add to that the popularity of hydro drives.
Hydros gobble up power as do differentials
I run a lot of mowers from the 60's
All mechanical gearboxes.
Easy for the operator = harder for the machine.
Lazyness costs money every where from TV's right through to lawnmowers

Generally mowers with variable pulleys will have a smaller engine than the same one with a hydro drive.
And of course if you are talking about anything a man buys, size IS Important be it the engine in you car, chainsaw or mower. :laughing:

Click to expand...

Who you calling lazy, lol. All of my mowers (JD 855 TLB with bushog, Honda Master's Series 21 inch, Exmark Turf Tracer HP 48 inch, Exmark Lazer Z HP 52 inch and BobCat FastCat Pro 52 Inch) are hydro driven and electric start and it has nothing to do with being lazy. It has to do with being EFFICIENT and PRODUCTIVE. Having infinite control of speed and direction means more control and maneuverability. I would be out of business (and the laughing stock of my town) if I tried running machines with manual gearboxes.

Darryl G said:

Who you calling lazy, lol. All of my mowers (JD 855 TLB with bushog, Honda Master's Series 21 inch, Exmark Turf Tracer HP 48 inch, Exmark Lazer Z HP 52 inch and BobCat FastCat Pro 52 Inch) are hydro driven and electric start and it has nothing to do with being lazy. It has to do with being EFFICIENT and PRODUCTIVE. Having infinite control of speed and direction means more control and maneuverability. I would be out of business (and the laughing stock of my town) if I tried running machines with manual gearboxes.

Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. I'm working on an older Bunton walk behind for a friend, and it is incredibly clumsy to use!

The one I was looking at over the weekend is 70's JD 120. It also has a hydro transmission, 48" deck, 2 electric PTOs. It certainly looks bigger than my modern 19hp Troybilt with belt transmission but only has 12hp. Here is a picture of a similar one.

http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/000/0/0/8-john-deere-120-photos.html

And you will find it goes just that little bit slower and used just that little bit more fuel than your troy-built.
If you want to compare gear boxed to hydro to variable belts then you have to do it with what is in the showroom today not what was sold 30 years ago.
The landlord has a host of farm tractors from the 40's 50's & 60's ranging from 20Hp to 45Hp and these pull hoes, ploughs, dig holes and lift 2 ton, SLOWLY.
Two models sitting side by side, the vari drive one will generally have a smaller engine ( next year it will get bigger and continue doing so till replaced with a new model ) .
The manual PTO will have a smaller engine than the electric PTO.
Both Briggs & Kohler recommend the mower companies work out the power requirements then increase that by 25% to determine the size engine needed.
Fast recharging will also require a bigger engine because mower alternators are not particularly efficient .

The actual standard for measuring Hp changed a while back which caused most engines rated Hp to be diminished.
Go to Small engine warehous or Small engine suppliers and see all of the engines wit a note they were formally rated 2 to 4 Hp higher.

Also there is a big change in expetations.
Back in 1966, the oldest ride on I still use daily, mowing 1 acre / hour was increadible and 2 hours would be fantastic & 3 hours acceptiable .
Now days because of all the labour saving devices liberating so much more time we want to be able to mow 5 acres an hour and mow our entire yard in less then 5 minutes because we cant be on face book while we are mowing so might miss a vital photo of a woman in a short skirt showing an 1/8" of panties or a lunch one of our fake friend posted.

Instead of being an enjoyable experience of time to oneself where one can think & relax it is now a chore to be done in the absolute minimum time.

And of course, grass has to be cut WHEN I WANT TO cut it , so leaving lawn cutting till late evening when it is best & easiest to do no longer happens.
Then here is the ego thing, if the person I paid to mow my grass was riding on a 400Hp turbo charged mower with a 200" deck then I need to have a bigger one.

I mow 5 acres with an 8/30 and a 10/34 if there has not been a customers mower to field test and very few modern mowers would be more than 15 minutes / acre faster.
In fact some of the Husqvarnas are slower than my 60 year old Rovers ( excluding ZTR's of course )


Professional mowers are of course different, wed, dry hot or cold, every week is every week and for them time IS money so overpowered mowers are worth the extra cost & fuel