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Honda's future in the 21 in. Battery Lawn Mowers
#1
D
DWSarow
D
DWSarow
With all the big names doing battery lawn machines and Honda getting out of the gas powered,they have them in the market in England and Australia, why not in the good old U.S.A?
#4
B
Bertrrr
B
Bertrrr
Battery operated Mowers will never hold up long term, IMOP- This Green Agenda is only lining some politician's pockets , Just my 2 cts
#6
F
FriedChicken
1. Already small profit margins - Honda apparently doesn't make much on a gasoline powered mower where they have manufacturing facilities on American soil.
2. Cost cutting from other manufacturers - if profit margins are already slim on a HIGH quality product then you can be certain that the competition will win over most consumers because of price. Honda mowers today are already very pricey so if there is an apple to apples product (aka electric to electric) the consumer is LIKELY going to buy something they've seen on the market for a while at a lower price point.
3. Market share - There is no Honda electric mowers in North America now so for them to come to the game this late means they'll have an uphill battle to win over market share in an already saturated market.
4. Shareable platform and complimentary products - Most electric mower companies have complimentary products that work with their battery system. Milwaukee can use the batteries for their power tools, EGO can share between their mower and snowblower. I cannot see Honda changing their entire lineup for the sake of battery support. They may offer SOMETHING but I do not anticipate it being extensive nor cheap like brands from Yardworkds or Ryobi for example that for the most part, do an okay job for what they were designed for.
5. Customer preferences - the USA and north america as a whole, is likely slow to adopt battery powered anything. Cars have been relatively slow to adopt and the mindset that gasoline is better is still very strong.
6. Beliefs that long term, gasoline is more viable. I am a firm believer that batteries and their limited lifespan IS legitimately a problem we have yet to truly overcome so I'm sticking with gasoline as its been the mainstay and likely will be for a long time.
F
FriedChicken
I would suspect the following reasons:With all the big names doing battery lawn machines and Honda getting out of the gas powered,they have them in the market in England and Australia, why not in the good old U.S.A?
1. Already small profit margins - Honda apparently doesn't make much on a gasoline powered mower where they have manufacturing facilities on American soil.
2. Cost cutting from other manufacturers - if profit margins are already slim on a HIGH quality product then you can be certain that the competition will win over most consumers because of price. Honda mowers today are already very pricey so if there is an apple to apples product (aka electric to electric) the consumer is LIKELY going to buy something they've seen on the market for a while at a lower price point.
3. Market share - There is no Honda electric mowers in North America now so for them to come to the game this late means they'll have an uphill battle to win over market share in an already saturated market.
4. Shareable platform and complimentary products - Most electric mower companies have complimentary products that work with their battery system. Milwaukee can use the batteries for their power tools, EGO can share between their mower and snowblower. I cannot see Honda changing their entire lineup for the sake of battery support. They may offer SOMETHING but I do not anticipate it being extensive nor cheap like brands from Yardworkds or Ryobi for example that for the most part, do an okay job for what they were designed for.
5. Customer preferences - the USA and north america as a whole, is likely slow to adopt battery powered anything. Cars have been relatively slow to adopt and the mindset that gasoline is better is still very strong.
6. Beliefs that long term, gasoline is more viable. I am a firm believer that batteries and their limited lifespan IS legitimately a problem we have yet to truly overcome so I'm sticking with gasoline as its been the mainstay and likely will be for a long time.
#7
H
HurstGN
As far as gasoline is better, well, look at that car travelling from New York to Chicago. A 12:30 trip of about 800 miles is doable in a day. While you can adopt a different mindset, the reality is that an electric car makes this trip a PITA or even impossible with at least 2 stops to recharge (@ 1-10 hours based on charger type and battery condition) making this trip at best 14:30 and an overnight stay at worst. Unless somehow in the electric world the laws of physics no longer apply. Not to mention an even longer trip. I know folks that own property in NY and FL and drive to vacation in FL. The longer the trip the worse the experience. Don't forget, that the electric infrastructure simply will not support all electric vehicles. The current infrastructure is in need of upgrades and that is for everyday life currently. It can't handle plugging in every device to go electric. A mindset of gasoline is better prevents the total collapse of the electric grid and the standard of life we currently enjoy while the brighter minds overcome the range/capacity limitations and develop the infrastructure to handle those changes.
H
HurstGN
Lawnmowers and cars are apples and oranges. If an electric car would be able to travel long distances in a day, were economical and had the infrastructure to support them, then folks may more readily consider them. Now a lawnmower, not as bad, but there are considerations still. Electric mowers are still very costly and most people aren't that keen on ditching a perfectly good mower to buy another that costs far more. And in this economy, that's a huge ask while people are struggling just to keep their head above water......
5. Customer preferences - the USA and North America as a whole, is likely slow to adopt battery powered anything. Cars have been relatively slow to adopt and the mindset that gasoline is better is still very strong.
.....
As far as gasoline is better, well, look at that car travelling from New York to Chicago. A 12:30 trip of about 800 miles is doable in a day. While you can adopt a different mindset, the reality is that an electric car makes this trip a PITA or even impossible with at least 2 stops to recharge (@ 1-10 hours based on charger type and battery condition) making this trip at best 14:30 and an overnight stay at worst. Unless somehow in the electric world the laws of physics no longer apply. Not to mention an even longer trip. I know folks that own property in NY and FL and drive to vacation in FL. The longer the trip the worse the experience. Don't forget, that the electric infrastructure simply will not support all electric vehicles. The current infrastructure is in need of upgrades and that is for everyday life currently. It can't handle plugging in every device to go electric. A mindset of gasoline is better prevents the total collapse of the electric grid and the standard of life we currently enjoy while the brighter minds overcome the range/capacity limitations and develop the infrastructure to handle those changes.
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Honda is pulling out in Australia as well
Dealers closing down every where .
The problem is the idiots in California deciding that mowers have to meet the same emission standards as automobiles .
No mower without fuel injection can meet these sorts of standards
When a market becomes uneconomic Honda exits it
Their good name as a premium brand is worth more to them than the small profits they make on lawncare items .
Dealers closing down every where .
The problem is the idiots in California deciding that mowers have to meet the same emission standards as automobiles .
No mower without fuel injection can meet these sorts of standards
When a market becomes uneconomic Honda exits it
Their good name as a premium brand is worth more to them than the small profits they make on lawncare items .
#9
Tiger Small Engine
The best overall ATV is and always has been a Honda. The handling, power, reliability, looks, function, and resell is second to none.
Tiger Small Engine
The fact is that Honda built such a great push and self-propelled mower, the mower lasts for many years, is very reliable, and the gross profit was not that great. The push for batteries was the nail in the coffin to quit making these Honda mowers.Honda is pulling out in Australia as well
Dealers closing down every where .
The problem is the idiots in California deciding that mowers have to meet the same emission standards as automobiles .
No mower without fuel injection can meet these sorts of standards
When a market becomes uneconomic Honda exits it
Their good name as a premium brand is worth more to them than the small profits they make on lawncare items .
The best overall ATV is and always has been a Honda. The handling, power, reliability, looks, function, and resell is second to none.
#10
A
activelife92
A
activelife92
It's a shame to see the "cheapification" of homeowner outdoor power equipment. The battery stuff looks shiny in big box stores, but that's about it. It would be really neat to see a manufacturer really try to build a quality product. I would trust Honda over many if they went down this route. I spoke with an engineer when I was trying to figure out my HRX camshaft issue (before official recall) and I believe he may have mentioned that they have no intention of going battery.
The idea of buying a new $200+ battery every few years has NEVER sat right with me either.
The idea of buying a new $200+ battery every few years has NEVER sat right with me either.
#11
G
GrumpyCat
EGo batteries have a 3 year 100% replacement warranty. If one registers the 10Ah battery warranty within 90 days the warranty is 5 years.
G
GrumpyCat
Still using my 2016 EGo 7.5 Ah battery. Why do you think you need to buy a new battery every 2 years?The idea of buying a new $200+ battery every few years has NEVER sat right with me either.
EGo batteries have a 3 year 100% replacement warranty. If one registers the 10Ah battery warranty within 90 days the warranty is 5 years.
#12
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Because very few people actually register for a warranty. Because outdoor power equipment batteries don’t always last past three years or so, fact. Because the batteries by themselves are very expensive.Still using my 2016 EGo 7.5 Ah battery. Why do you think you need to buy a new battery every 2 years?
EGo batteries have a 3 year 100% replacement warranty. If one registers the 10Ah battery warranty within 90 days the warranty is 5 years.
#13
B
Blaine B.
B
Blaine B.
You will own nothing and be happy!Battery operated Mowers will never hold up long term, IMOP- This Green Agenda is only lining some politician's pockets , Just my 2 cts
#14
B
Blaine B.
B
Blaine B.
The lack of range and lengthy charging times are the perfect combination to be utilized in order to significantly reduce the amount of private travel that the serfs are allowed to do.Lawnmowers and cars are apples and oranges. If an electric car would be able to travel long distances in a day, were economical and had the infrastructure to support them, then folks may more readily consider them. Now a lawnmower, not as bad, but there are considerations still. Electric mowers are still very costly and most people aren't that keen on ditching a perfectly good mower to buy another that costs far more. And in this economy, that's a huge ask while people are struggling just to keep their head above water.
As far as gasoline is better, well, look at that car travelling from New York to Chicago. A 12:30 trip of about 800 miles is doable in a day. While you can adopt a different mindset, the reality is that an electric car makes this trip a PITA or even impossible with at least 2 stops to recharge (@ 1-10 hours based on charger type and battery condition) making this trip at best 14:30 and an overnight stay at worst. Unless somehow in the electric world the laws of physics no longer apply. Not to mention an even longer trip. I know folks that own property in NY and FL and drive to vacation in FL. The longer the trip the worse the experience. Don't forget, that the electric infrastructure simply will not support all electric vehicles. The current infrastructure is in need of upgrades and that is for everyday life currently. It can't handle plugging in every device to go electric. A mindset of gasoline is better prevents the total collapse of the electric grid and the standard of life we currently enjoy while the brighter minds overcome the range/capacity limitations and develop the infrastructure to handle those changes.
#15
G
GrumpyCat
And yes, name brand EGo batteries are not cheap. Aftermarket EGo batteries are of lesser quality, live down to your expectations. But EGo uses 18650 cells for which high quality replacements are available for reasonable prices. When time comes I'll tear down my EGo battery(s) and replace the cells.
G
GrumpyCat
Oh, I didn't know my batteries "don't always last past 3 years." So far, all have.'Because very few people actually register for a warranty. Because outdoor power equipment batteries don’t always last past three years or so, fact. Because the batteries by themselves are very expensive.
And yes, name brand EGo batteries are not cheap. Aftermarket EGo batteries are of lesser quality, live down to your expectations. But EGo uses 18650 cells for which high quality replacements are available for reasonable prices. When time comes I'll tear down my EGo battery(s) and replace the cells.
#16
A
aarong24
A
aarong24
I'm not arguing with you, but who do you think wants to reduce price travel?The lack of range and lengthy charging times are the perfect combination to be utilized in order to significantly reduce the amount of private travel that the serfs are allowed to do.
#17
G
GrumpyCat
I know a retired woman who made a 6500 mile loop of the USA in her Tesla a couple months ago. Said she only stopped to eat, pee or be a tourist, and sometimes charged at the same time. Many 600 mile days of 2 charge stops.
G
GrumpyCat
What makes you think ev charging times are lengthy and result in reduced travel?The lack of range and lengthy charging times are the perfect combination to be utilized in order to significantly reduce the amount of private travel that the serfs are allowed to do.
I know a retired woman who made a 6500 mile loop of the USA in her Tesla a couple months ago. Said she only stopped to eat, pee or be a tourist, and sometimes charged at the same time. Many 600 mile days of 2 charge stops.
#18
upupandaway
I know a guy who delivers for Amazon in the EV truck. He says he gets 120 miles on one charge. Lucky not all Amazon delivery trucks are EV with everything they need to deliver.
You do what you do. Unlike you, there are other people and businesses who drive a lot and mower businesses who cut a lot each day and EV doesn't cut it(no pun intended).
upupandaway
I have driven from Fort Worth to Chicago and back in a straight shot several times - 8am - 2am. Just stop for gas and food. No way I could do it with an EV, especially when I towed a trailer on one trip(see Ford EV with trailer made 1 charge last equal to driving 4 gallons of gas before needing another charge).What makes you think ev charging times are lengthy and result in reduced travel?
I know a guy who delivers for Amazon in the EV truck. He says he gets 120 miles on one charge. Lucky not all Amazon delivery trucks are EV with everything they need to deliver.
You do what you do. Unlike you, there are other people and businesses who drive a lot and mower businesses who cut a lot each day and EV doesn't cut it(no pun intended).
#19
G
GrumpyCat
Oooh! Poor Amazon driver only gets 120 miles per charge! So how long is is route, 60 miles? The average USPS carrier's day is 36 miles.
You pretend when an EV is not suitable for one single corner condition that EVs are not suitable for any application.
G
GrumpyCat
I knew of a diesel pickup with 20' RV trailer that couldn't go 120 miles between tanks. Citing the very worst case you can dig out of the trash is a poor basis for a debate.I have driven from Fort Worth to Chicago and back in a straight shot several times - 8am - 2am. Just stop for gas and food. No way I could do it with an EV, especially when I towed a trailer on one trip(see Ford EV with trailer made 1 charge last equal to driving 4 gallons of gas before needing another charge).
I know a guy who delivers for Amazon in the EV truck. He says he gets 120 miles on one charge. Lucky not all Amazon delivery trucks are EV with everything they need to deliver.
You do what you do. Unlike you, there are other people and businesses who drive a lot and mower businesses who cut a lot each day and EV doesn't cut it(no pun intended).
Oooh! Poor Amazon driver only gets 120 miles per charge! So how long is is route, 60 miles? The average USPS carrier's day is 36 miles.
You pretend when an EV is not suitable for one single corner condition that EVs are not suitable for any application.
#20
shurguywutt
shurguywutt
ExactlyI know a retired woman who made a 6500 mile loop of the USA in her Tesla
#21
upupandaway
Just look in forums. UPS, Fedex drivers report driving 100's of miles a day. Do you think Amazon doesn't deliver many things every day???
upupandaway
I am using the results done when they tested the Ford EV pickup towing a trailer....Citing the very worst case you can dig out of the trash is a poor basis for a debate.
Just look in forums. UPS, Fedex drivers report driving 100's of miles a day. Do you think Amazon doesn't deliver many things every day???
#22
B
Briantii
I think the idea is that Amazon's customer density is high enough that 100's of miles per day isn't required.
I like electric stuff just fine but what I don't like is being forced into something. I drove a Tesla Model Y performance and was genuinely impressed with the tech and the performance, especially for the price. Wife veto'd it as "too spaceship like" with the single screen and all. The Tesla charging network makes long range travel feasible though still not nearly as convenient as gas. Personally I want both and for different reasons.
B
Briantii
I am using the results done when they tested the Ford EV pickup towing a trailer.
Just look in forums. UPS, Fedex drivers report driving 100's of miles a day. Do you think Amazon doesn't deliver many things every day???
I think the idea is that Amazon's customer density is high enough that 100's of miles per day isn't required.
I like electric stuff just fine but what I don't like is being forced into something. I drove a Tesla Model Y performance and was genuinely impressed with the tech and the performance, especially for the price. Wife veto'd it as "too spaceship like" with the single screen and all. The Tesla charging network makes long range travel feasible though still not nearly as convenient as gas. Personally I want both and for different reasons.
#24
G
GrumpyCat
G
GrumpyCat
Exactly, you only noticed that review because it said something bad.I am using the results done when they tested the Ford EV pickup towing a trailer.
Some do. I know something of UPS's early ventures running a pure electric brown truck in 1980.Just look in forums. UPS, Fedex drivers report driving 100's of miles a day. Do you think Amazon doesn't deliver many things every day???
#25
upupandaway
upupandaway
Gee, didn't know it was evil to learn how a product performs. Sorry....Exactly, you only noticed that review because it said something bad.
#26
G
GrumpyCat
G
GrumpyCat
Sorry you believe the worst reviews are the only accurate reviews.Gee, didn't know it was evil to learn how a product performs. Sorry....
#27
shurguywutt
That's like saying I run a lawn service with an EV zero turn. Maybe it's possible, but I never saw a lawnman driving one yet. The EV lawnmower has swappable batteries too lol.
shurguywutt
Lol, forgive me I have a hard time believing this. A retired woman driving 8-10 hours a day around the country in an EV? Haha was she using A/C, heat, lights, and the radio too?600 mile days, didn't loaf around.
That's like saying I run a lawn service with an EV zero turn. Maybe it's possible, but I never saw a lawnman driving one yet. The EV lawnmower has swappable batteries too lol.
#28
G
GrumpyCat
A 600 mile day is easier if one stops 2-3 times. Try it sometime. Even on 400 or 500 mile days. EV or ICE.
There are professional grade battery electric zero turns with 60-72" decks that can mow 8-10 hours nonstop. It would be hard to justify their cost unless one could sell one's services at a premium for lower noise and/or just have rich clientele who will pay to be "green".
While it would be "hard to justify the cost", a large lawn service needs one of the current professional grade battery electric mowers for no other reason than to learn just what the cost really is.
Honda is not the only one taking battery electric mowers seriously. Bad Boy has serious metal battery ZTRs coming. Sadly they appear to be Greenworks powered. Am not terribly enthused by Greenworks' batteries but with luck they will prove me wrong. Greenworks is trying hard to be everyone's OEM, use Greenworks to get in the business quickly with low NRE. Would have liked to see Tesla sell electric motors with integrated speed controllers that fit common V-twin industrial engine bolt pattern and shaft sizes.
G
GrumpyCat
She really really did. 6500 miles total loop around the country east coast to west and back, and bunch in between. My sister. A/C, heat, cellphone, everything. Believe it or not those things don't use much compared to the 16-20kW needed to go 70 MPH. On occasion drives 720 mile day to get here, or here to home. Currently driving a new Tesla Model S. I only have a lowly Model Y, formerly an olLol, forgive me I have a hard time believing this. A retired woman driving 8-10 hours a day around the country in an EV? Haha was she using A/C, heat, lights, and the radio too?
A 600 mile day is easier if one stops 2-3 times. Try it sometime. Even on 400 or 500 mile days. EV or ICE.
You are only looking at the toy box store battery mowers.That's like saying I run a lawn service with an EV zero turn. Maybe it's possible, but I never saw a lawnman driving one yet. The EV lawnmower has swappable batteries too lol.
There are professional grade battery electric zero turns with 60-72" decks that can mow 8-10 hours nonstop. It would be hard to justify their cost unless one could sell one's services at a premium for lower noise and/or just have rich clientele who will pay to be "green".
While it would be "hard to justify the cost", a large lawn service needs one of the current professional grade battery electric mowers for no other reason than to learn just what the cost really is.
Honda is not the only one taking battery electric mowers seriously. Bad Boy has serious metal battery ZTRs coming. Sadly they appear to be Greenworks powered. Am not terribly enthused by Greenworks' batteries but with luck they will prove me wrong. Greenworks is trying hard to be everyone's OEM, use Greenworks to get in the business quickly with low NRE. Would have liked to see Tesla sell electric motors with integrated speed controllers that fit common V-twin industrial engine bolt pattern and shaft sizes.