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My HRR216-9VYA has an issue leaving dry clippings behind every time I lower the mowing height. It has done this since I purchased the machine.

Please watch this video to see what I'm experiencing and possibly offer any solution.


TIA,
Shawn

Nice lawn. When was the last time you power raked or thatched? Is your honda running at the proper RPM's? Is the deck perfectly clean.....perfect? Are you getting good air flow thru your bagger?

Maybe different blades.
Description
The Honda HRR Lower Bagging Blade is a Quadracut twin blade set is made just for the Honda Mowers. The double sided blade design fits perfectly with the HRR models. This Honda HRR Lower Bagging Blade is recommended to be replaced in pairs, that is both the upper and lower blades at the same time.
Features

• Applications include: HRM215, HRB215, HRB216/217, HRS216, HRR/HRT/HRZ216

HRR Lower Bagging Blade Mfr # 72511-VE1-020 **

I replace both blades earlier this year. The lower blade is this one that matches with what the mower came with.


I thatched it last year. I will clean the bag, but the bag is filling up normally with other grass.

I recommend cleaning he bag using mild soap and water, and use a mild bristle brush to scrub the inside of the bag. Bags can accumulate stuff on the inside that will prevent good airflow. The green grass is being propelled by it's greater weight so it picks up. The dead stuff needs to be propelled by airflow and that appears to be your issue. I just used a HRX217 to pickup debris from dethatching my yard and it picked up just fine. When I run my mower, I can see the bag bulge outward when the blades are running. Looking at the top of the bag, it will bulge from airflow, then it will sag if I try bagging too much and the chute into the bag clogs up due to the bag being full.

Here's an update.

I mowed again yesterday at the same height as before - 2.5". Prior to mowing, I sprayed the bag with the jet setting on my hose, then pressure washed the deck clean. I also adjusted the RPM from 2800 previously to 3200 now while idle. Running RPM while mowing hovered between 3000-3100RPM.

I think if you look closely at the bag at 0:38, you can see a slight bulge of the top.

I see you have the blade stop. I'm wondering if that could be a factor. My hrx was a good bagger but I didn't have the blade stop. My new Toro super recycler has spin stop and it bags great.

I'll be going down another 1/2" or so tomorrow so that I can apply a fall overseeding. I'll really know if it's any better when I lower it.

It's a lawn mower, not a vacuum cleaner. I think you're asking too much if you expect it to pick up every blade of grass.

Here's my results from yesterday. At the end, I show how the bag looks inside. I'm not expecting 100% to be picked up, but you don't think this is a normal amount of clippings left behind do you?


Maybe I just have weird grass. If it's not the RPMs, not a dull blade, not a dirty bag or deck, the only thing left is the grass?? But how does that explain that it doesn't pick up the clippings if I go back over them?

Looks like you've done just about all you can with your current mower. Here's a homework assignment:
Borrow a neighbor's mower with bagger and see how that does. If the results are the same then you are all set. If not then it's the mower and it might just be inherent to that series of Honda and how it deals with your grass.

In vid 2 the sharp shadow shows the bag looks to be allowing air through. In vid 3, I would expect at that speed, that dead grass should be picked up.
It looks like the mower just isn't developing enough vacuum to pick up that dry dead grass. I'm out of ideas to try.

ShawnCarl said:

Here's my results from yesterday. At the end, I show how the bag looks inside. I'm not expecting 100% to be picked up, but you don't think this is a normal amount of clippings left behind do you?

Maybe I just have weird grass. If it's not the RPMs, not a dull blade, not a dirty bag or deck, the only thing left is the grass?? But how does that explain that it doesn't pick up the clippings if I go back over them?

Click to expand...

It looks to me like you do have weird grass and it's holding onto the clippings via the "velcro effect." But what has me puzzled is the length of your clippings. You're running the dual blade mulching system, right? I have an older Master's Series HR215 with the dual blade setup and my clippings are way smaller than that. And those 2 blades should give it plenty of suction and lift. Are you sure that you have your blades set up properly? Maybe snap a picture of the underside of the deck? How about your deck, are you sure that you have the front and back set at the same height?

It's a Honda. Poor bagging is the norm on all their machines. You guys will have to live with it.

I've owned/used every level of Honda through the years. From their disposable walmart line to their commercial mowers. None impress or even get close to a 40 year old Snapper Hi-Vac.

slomo

One thing I forgot to mention is that the bag was filling up yesterday about every 150' linear feet. I also did notice that the clippings looked longer than I expected. I'll take a pic and post it.

ShawnCarl said:

One thing I forgot to mention is that the bag was filling up yesterday about every 150' linear feet. I also did notice that the clippings looked longer than I expected. I'll take a pic and post it.

Click to expand...

Dropping your mowing height increases the amount of clippings exponentially. The further down you go the higher the turf density. A half inch can make a big difference.

Smaller blade on my HRX was towards the engine. Is your blade order correct?

Insufficient up draft for the type of grass and the length of the clippings
Every lawn is different so it is just a matter of finding the combination of blade lift and cut height that works for your lawn.
There is no such thing as "the Best Mower" it is a case of the "Right Mower " for your circumstances.
To mee it looks like those clippings are very fine and very long but in the first video your grass looked quite short and the clippings looked fairly short as well .
Some grasses with fine leaves are not suitable for rotary mowers that is one reason why lawn bowls courts and golf course greens are cut will a drum mower .

Here's photos of my blades. In the lower left, it appears that the gap between the front and top of the deck is intentional to allow for air flow in?

Thanks. Yeah, that all looks correct. I give up.

The big black thing at the back I gather is the mulch plug
Isn't the mulch plug supposed to be removed when you are bagging ?
Evry mower I have seen down here is set up that way .

That is the belt shroud/cover I believe.

I got a response from Honda after sending them my videos.

Thank you for writing us back and sending in the videos, and pictures regarding your mower. First, I would like to complement you on a beautiful lawn. I showed the files to our model engineer and he notes that by the size and color of the blades that are being left behind the mower is pulling up a layer of thatch. Please note that the the mower is not leaving blades of green grass behind and the mower is pulling those strands from below the surface of the living green grass as you are passing by. Several actions can be taken to keep this from happening. Since you have a thick and lush yard you may need to mow more often, slow the pace especially as the bag becomes full, and de-thaching your lawn will bring that dead grass to the surface.

Click to expand...

Doesn't really explain why those thatch strands aren't being picked up. I power raked last night and it pulled out a lot of dead grass, but I thought thatch was more of a layer instead of just dead grass strands. The layer below the grass wasn't thick, but there were quite a bit of dead vertical grass strands.

Happy to see that Honda took the time to try to address your issues.

I'm sticking with the "velcro effect" after viewing your videos again. Think of it this way - your turf is the hook part and the cut grass is the fuzzy part. Note how you actually have to work at combing the grass out with your fingers. The sides of the grass blades have small serrations on them, and due to the high density of your turf, each of those pieces of cut grass that aren't getting picked up is laying across/embedded in countless vertical serrated blades of grass that are gripping them.

Also in the first video where grass is thrown out on the left side, that's indicative of overloading the deck by going too fast. You can hear the engine bogging at the same time.

Darryl G said:

Happy to see that Honda took the time to try to address your issues.

I'm sticking with the "velcro effect" after viewing your videos again. Think of it this way - your turf is the hook part and the cut grass is the fuzzy part. Note how you actually have to work at combing the grass out with your fingers. The sides of the grass blades have small serrations on them, and due to the high density of your turf, each of those pieces of cut grass that aren't getting picked up is laying across/embedded in countless vertical serrated blades of grass that are gripping them.

Also in the first video where grass is thrown out on the left side, that's indicative of overloading the deck by going too fast. You can hear the engine bogging at the same time.

Click to expand...

I agree. The more I watch the video's I think that this is happening. @ShawnCarl if you used a dethatcher then with your lawn i'm thinking a power rake is in order. Power rakes can remove up to 4 times as much material as a dethatcher. A neighbor up the street who has one of the best lawns in the neighborhood used a power rake and I was shocked at the amount of material he got out.

Makes sense. Looks like I'm going to have to dethatch my lawn more often - maybe twice a year - since winter seems to kill a lot of my grass. Technically I detached it using one of these - https://www.sears.com/craftsman-18-in-electric-powered-dethatcher/p-07129280000P but I consider it more of a power rake than dethatcher like you get at the rental store.

ShawnCarl said:

I got a response from Honda after sending them my videos.



Doesn't really explain why those thatch strands aren't being picked up. I power raked last night and it pulled out a lot of dead grass, but I thought thatch was more of a layer instead of just dead grass strands. The layer below the grass wasn't thick, but there were quite a bit of dead vertical grass strands.

Click to expand...

The bigger worry is why they have not rotted down to compost like they are supposed to do.
Also they are very long which suggests that you are cutting too much grass off for effective mulching

ShawnCarl said:

I got a response from Honda after sending them my videos.



Doesn't really explain why those thatch strands aren't being picked up. I power raked last night and it pulled out a lot of dead grass, but I thought thatch was more of a layer instead of just dead grass strands. The layer below the grass wasn't thick, but there were quite a bit of dead vertical grass strands.

Click to expand...

Calling BS on the Honda thatch deal. These mowers will barely fill the bag up. Needless to say suck up dead thatch at the dirt level through the foliage. How can some Honda employee see this from a video? LOL

slomo

Because they see it 20 times a day.
The bag is there to catch the fresh wet grass clippings and is designed for that .
Pulling up very thin long & light previously mowed dead grass clippings is a different matter

We have swing back blades down here and the Hondas come with a 4 blade carrier .
There is a high lift & low lift blade so we can adjust the lift from on pair of low lift on really sandy soil through to super vacuum using 2 pair of high lifts which fill the bags so full the mower does a wheel stand.

If there is a higher lift blade then that is worth a try but from what I can see it is an operator problem, not a mower problem .
And FWIW I can tell how people mow, how often they mow and how much they cut in a single pass by the wear patterns & build up under the deck and the wear pattern on the blades.

bertsmobile1 said:

The bigger worry is why they have not rotted down to compost like they are supposed to do.
Also they are very long which suggests that you are cutting too much grass off for effective mulching

Click to expand...

I think a lot of these strands are just dead grass, not previously cut strands. Mowing pulls (not cuts) this dead grass up when I lower the cutting height. Pulling explains why the strands are long (they didn't get cut). This is my theory. I'll have to wait until next year to see how much grass dies off again to examine it again.

Have you looked into something like N-Ext D-Thatch to breakdown that material between cutting? https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/n-ext/products/n-ext-d-thatch-5-gallon

HurstGN said:

Have you looked into something like N-Ext D-Thatch to breakdown that material between cutting? https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/n-ext/products/n-ext-d-thatch-5-gallon

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll look into that.