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Honda HR216HXA carb question

#1

J

JBtoro

Picked up this classic. Looks like it needs a new carb. I believe it has the GXV140 engine; that's what the manual says. In searching for aftermarket carbs, I see the style pictured below; description says it fits the HR215. But it has that little attachment thing on it which mine doesn't. Otherwise, the rest of the unit looks like mine; ie, linkage connectors, etc. Would this one work on place of the original? And I am most curious as to what that attachment does. Anybody know?

HR215 carb.jpg


#2

M

mechanic mark

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/c/honda_power_equipment_lawn_mower/parts

suggestion: purchase Honda OEM parts.


#3

B

bertsmobile1

First the easy bit.
The thing on the side is a fuel tap.
If you see the same thing with a bowl on the bottom that is a sediment filter usually only found on stationary engines.

Now as the saying goes, " A fool & his money are soon parted" and dads favourite "he who buys cheap pays thrice "

Because of the flood of counterfeit parts pouring out of China, Honda has dropped their parts price to near cost.
So get the RIGHT carb from a Honda dealer and you will know it WORKS .

Buying some thing off the web from some one who does not know anything about the part , so has listed it incorrectly is a stupid thing to do.
You have no idea who you are buying from or even if you are buying a part that has been tested & works or buying reject defective parts purchased as scrap metal then sold off to cheapskates.

There is a big difference between:-
"fits" , it will bolt up and the control wires will hook up
or
OEM = came out of the same factory, might be good or might be scrap
and
Guaranteed certified replacement part.

About 1/4 of what comes through the gate is stuff that an owner has tried to fix with cheap parts bought off ebay or amazon that were defective.


#4

T

tadawson

JBtoro said:
Picked up this classic. Looks like it needs a new carb. I believe it has the GXV140 engine; that's what the manual says. In searching for aftermarket carbs, I see the style pictured below; description says it fits the HR215. But it has that little attachment thing on it which mine doesn't. Otherwise, the rest of the unit looks like mine; ie, linkage connectors, etc. Would this one work on place of the original? And I am most curious as to what that attachment does. Anybody know?

View attachment 44143
Click to expand...

HR214: GXV120
HR215: GXV140
HR216: GXV160

And that is a fuel shutoff and sediment bowl . . . definitely present on the GXV140 on my HR215, not sure about the HR216 . . .


#5

B

bertsmobile1

tadawson said:
HR214: GXV120
HR215: GXV140
HR216: GXV160

And that is a fuel shutoff and sediment bowl . . . definitely present on the GXV140 on my HR215, not sure about the HR216 . . .
Click to expand...

The carb shown is for a Lifan engine ( honda knock off ).
There is no sediment bowl on it, just the on off tap, usually fitted with a neoprene seal that goes to mus in 1 to 2 years and totally clogs up the carb.


#6

T

tadawson

bertsmobile1 said:
The carb shown is for a Lifan engine ( honda knock off ).
There is no sediment bowl on it, just the on off tap, usually fitted with a neoprene seal that goes to mus in 1 to 2 years and totally clogs up the carb.
Click to expand...

I was talking about my GXV140 carb, which looks like that. 30 years later, seals are still fine, and I believe it was Honda that had said 'sediment bowl' in a manual I read, but I can't find it now, so ???

And don't care about craptastic Chinese parts . . . there are typically far bigger issues than seals . . .


#7

B

bertsmobile1

The identical looking Honda seal is made from n-bunya rubber and lasts for decades.


#8

J

JBtoro

tadawson said:
HR214: GXV120
HR215: GXV140
HR216: GXV160

And that is a fuel shutoff and sediment bowl . . . definitely present on the GXV140 on my HR215, not sure about the HR216 . . .
Click to expand...

HR216 was a typo; its an HR215KHXA with a GXV140. The fuel shutoff/sediment carb is described as a replacement for an HR215 & GXV140. Yet mine doesn't have the shutoff/sediment bowl; it looks like the one below. I'm asking whether the shutoff/sediment unit would work/fit on my mower, OEM or otherwise, and at this point, that's the only info I am seeking here. What do you think( I think it would work)? ... & thanks so much for helping me.

HRR215 carb 2.jpg


#9

B

bertsmobile1

The shut off valve is just that, a tap.
Will not make nits knacker of difference to the operation of the engine.
Only problem will be fitting the fuel hose if the inlet is at a different angle or different position.

It should work for now. As previously mentioned if the seal is cheap neoprene it will fail in a season or less
So the question is "do you feel lucky" ?


#10

T

tadawson

A bigger question is why not just clean/rebuild what you have, instead of risking 3rd world crap? If what you have is an actual Honda carb, you will be hard pressed to do better . . . As far as fit, the GXV engines are all pretty much the same, so unless something on yours interferes mechanically with the shutoff, it should work fine . . . as noted, the HR215 (at least earlier ones) were stock with the carb with the shutoff, so either it was changed on later K variants, or someone downgraded it for you already.


#11

J

JBtoro

bertsmobile1 said:
The shut off valve is just that, a tap.
Will not make nits knacker of difference to the operation of the engine.
Only problem will be fitting the fuel hose if the inlet is at a different angle or different position.

It should work for now. As previously mentioned if the seal is cheap neoprene it will fail in a season or less
So the question is "do you feel lucky" ?
Click to expand...

Not questioning your knowledge & advice, but an aftermarket carb on Amazon is $9.99 vs 60-70 OEM. On an old mower like this one, the former is about what I am willing to put into it. So, to pick up on your "Dirty Harry" quote; I think I might tell Amazon to "Go ahead, make my day."

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-HR215K...em+carburetor&qid=1559613236&s=gateway&sr=8-7

Attachments





#12

J

JBtoro

tadawson said:
A bigger question is why not just clean/rebuild what you have, instead of risking 3rd world crap? If what you have is an actual Honda carb, you will be hard pressed to do better . . . As far as fit, the GXV engines are all pretty much the same, so unless something on yours interferes mechanically with the shutoff, it should work fine . . . as noted, the HR215 (at least earlier ones) were stock with the carb with the shutoff, so either it was changed on later K variants, or someone downgraded it for you already.
Click to expand...

I did clean the original thoroughly; carb cleaner, emulsion tube removal and cleaning of the tiny holes; compressed air. Still runs erratic. But thanks for your opinion on using the shutoff version; I'm pretty sure there won't be any interference. I must admit though that, based on experience with aftermarket parts, I am not as opposed to them as many are. Besides, some may be surprised to know that Honda itself uses the 3rd world. See below: Thailand.

Thailand.jpg


#13

T

tadawson

Did you pull and clean the pilot jet and needle as well? The only time I have not gotten a carb back to 100% with cleaning, a kit (sometimes) and adjustment was one of these, and 20+ years in ethanol fuel had caused the pilot jet to shrink and the engine surged. Replaced that, and perfect for the last 10 and still gping strong.

I don't as much have an objection to offshore mystery parts as I do unneccessary parts, and I would wager that at least 95% of carb replacements are not needed . . .

Also note that the issue is not so much where it is made, but for/by who . . . Honda can get stuff from where ever it wants, applies it's QC and backs the part. ChinFatCo's $9 carbs you are lucky to find the mfg the next day (or ever) and QC is a maybe, and nobody backs it . . .you are 0n your own before the part even arrives.

Oh, and I find my HR215 to be worth more $$$ than any of the junk sold today . . . Can't find anything even close for under $1000 . . . rebuilt mine (engine included) for about $200, and should go another 30 years . . . a lot depends on how abused it has been though, that's for certain . . .


#14

J

JBtoro

tadawson said:
Did you pull and clean the pilot jet and needle as well? The only time I have not gotten a carb back to 100% with cleaning, a kit (sometimes) and adjustment was one of these, and 20+ years in ethanol fuel had caused the pilot jet to shrink and the engine surged. Replaced that, and perfect for the last 10 and still gping strong.

I don't as much have an objection to offshore mystery parts as I do unneccessary parts, and I would wager that at least 95% of carb replacements are not needed . . .

Also note that the issue is not so much where it is made, but for/by who . . . Honda can get stuff from where ever it wants, applies it's QC and backs the part. ChinFatCo's $9 carbs you are lucky to find the mfg the next day (or ever) and QC is a maybe, and nobody backs it . . .you are 0n your own before the part even arrives.

Oh, and I find my HR215 to be worth more $$$ than any of the junk sold today . . . Can't find anything even close for under $1000 . . . rebuilt mine (engine included) for about $200, and should go another 30 years . . . a lot depends on how abused it has been though, that's for certain . . .
Click to expand...

Good points all ... yeah cleaned the jet & needle too. The jet on this carb screws in on top of the emulsion tube & is brass. Is that what you say had shrunk?

215 jet.jpg


#15

T

tadawson

JBtoro said:
Good points all ... yeah cleaned the jet & needle too. The jet on this carb screws in on top of the emulsion tube & is brass. Is that what you say had shrunk?

View attachment 44170
Click to expand...

Nope - the black plastic pilot jet that presses into the top of the carb . . #24 in the parts list linked in the last post.


#16

J

JBtoro

tadawson said:
Nope - the black plastic pilot jet that presses into the top of the carb . . #24 in the parts list linked in the last post.
Click to expand...

Ok, I see it now. BTW, I think you nailed it as to why some HR215's have the shutoff version but others don't. It appears to be that Honda changed things, for whatever reason, on later models. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any engines (GCV160's &190's) with the shutoff in the last, say 10-15 years.


#17

B

bertsmobile1

JBtoro said:
Ok, I see it now. BTW, I think you nailed it as to why some HR215's have the shutoff version but others don't. It appears to be that Honda changed things, for whatever reason, on later models. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any engines (GCV160's &190's) with the shutoff in the last, say 10-15 years.
Click to expand...

Usually the cut off is fitted to the commercial engines because they bounce around in their trailers and tend to flood during transist.
Also commercial operators are nowhere near as price sensitive as the domestic market.
Cut off valve with sediment filter is generally found on stationary engines because the sediment trap would not work with the mower bouncing around on a lawn.

There is no problem with Chinese made parts that have ben made in a quality controlled factory,
Honda has 11 factories in China, All of the Honda engine we get down here come from China , as does most of the small Briggs & Kohlers.
And yes the factories in China buy in carburettors from other factories in China.

The difference is what gets put into a bag with Honda on it has been quality controlled , inspected and passed.
The scrap that gets rejected ends up being sold on Ebay & Amazon.
Thus the bad carburettors with problems that were made by the factory that supplies carburettors to Honda end up being sold as OEM & fitting x,y & z.
All of which is true, what gets omitted from the description is the carburettor was one Honda rejected as being substandard .

Having said that some will be good, they are simply over production.
The problem is there is no way of telling till they get fitted and the engine still dose not work right , so the owner rips into the engine , oft doing more damage doing so thinking that it can not be the carb because it is brand new from an OEM supplier.

I see these all the time, they come through the gate, the owners having thrown a lot of money at them replacing all sorts of things when the problem is a faulty carb and the original problem was a dirty carb that was not cleaned properly which is a lot harder than many would expect, some taking several hours in the ultrasonic cleaner with very agressive cleaning solutions.

I am an independent service technician & fit CHINESE parts , however they are bought through real wholesalers who have a real warehouses, real reps and cover them with real warranties as they are quality controlled at the factory.
Now getting back to YOU.
You have a problem that you can not seem to identify or fix so you have decided to try to overcome it by fitting a new carburettor.
Nothing wrong with that approach.
However that will only work , if the new parts you are fitting are actually good & fit for purpose.
You have no way of assertaining if the carb is good or bad so in those situations it is prudent to get the carb from some one who stands behind what they are selling .
Amazon & ebay retailers do not do this in most cases they are nothing more than a person who imports parts, send them to an Amazon / ebay warehouse who store & dispatch them to you.


#18

J

JBtoro

bertsmobile1 said:
Usually the cut off is fitted to the commercial engines because they bounce around in their trailers and tend to flood during transist.
Also commercial operators are nowhere near as price sensitive as the domestic market.
Cut off valve with sediment filter is generally found on stationary engines because the sediment trap would not work with the mower bouncing around on a lawn.

There is no problem with Chinese made parts that have ben made in a quality controlled factory,
Honda has 11 factories in China, All of the Honda engine we get down here come from China , as does most of the small Briggs & Kohlers.
And yes the factories in China buy in carburettors from other factories in China.

The difference is what gets put into a bag with Honda on it has been quality controlled , inspected and passed.
The scrap that gets rejected ends up being sold on Ebay & Amazon.
Thus the bad carburettors with problems that were made by the factory that supplies carburettors to Honda end up being sold as OEM & fitting x,y & z.
All of which is true, what gets omitted from the description is the carburettor was one Honda rejected as being substandard .

Having said that some will be good, they are simply over production.
The problem is there is no way of telling till they get fitted and the engine still dose not work right , so the owner rips into the engine , oft doing more damage doing so thinking that it can not be the carb because it is brand new from an OEM supplier.

I see these all the time, they come through the gate, the owners having thrown a lot of money at them replacing all sorts of things when the problem is a faulty carb and the original problem was a dirty carb that was not cleaned properly which is a lot harder than many would expect, some taking several hours in the ultrasonic cleaner with very agressive cleaning solutions.

I am an independent service technician & fit CHINESE parts , however they are bought through real wholesalers who have a real warehouses, real reps and cover them with real warranties as they are quality controlled at the factory.
Now getting back to YOU.
You have a problem that you can not seem to identify or fix so you have decided to try to overcome it by fitting a new carburettor.
Nothing wrong with that approach.
However that will only work , if the new parts you are fitting are actually good & fit for purpose.
You have no way of assertaining if the carb is good or bad so in those situations it is prudent to get the carb from some one who stands behind what they are selling .
Amazon & ebay retailers do not do this in most cases they are nothing more than a person who imports parts, send them to an Amazon / ebay warehouse who store & dispatch them to you.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input; I appreciate your help.


#19

J

JBtoro

Well, I got the Amazon sediment bowl carb. It fit perfectly. It came with, believe it or not, a magneto & a bunch of gaskets & a hose for $11.99. I know, its not OEM ... but the seller offers 120 day free return so I took the plunge. The effort to replace the carb on the GXV140 is easier than on GCV160's; took me about 15 mins. You remove two nuts on fixed studs rather than having to remove bolts & then fight getting all the spacers, gaskets, carb, & filter housing lined up & maneuvered back on. Anyway, the mower started on the first pull after the install & has run well for a couple of mowing sessions. Time will tell, I guess, but so far so good. BTW, I became suspicious early on of the magneto during this process. Others have reported a shorting issue of that part after the mower gets hot. The one I replaced is probably the original, vintage mid to late 1990's.


#20

M

mechanic mark

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/l/hpe/505ce40df870022d24bdbd33/hr215k1-hxa-parts


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