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Honda HR214 self propel stopped working

#1

S

SF1

Hello everyone, I have a classic Honda hr214 push mower, that's been my trust and dependable mower for the last 25 years.
Anyway, to make a long story short the self propel and the stop engage stopped working at the same time. The stop lever is not a big deal cause I just shut it off manually. My main concern is the transmission. When the self propel stopped working one day, then a day later it was working again ? Let me just say that for all of the years I've owned this mower, I've always changed the oil at the beginning of the season, but this year that wasn't the case. So, after the self propel stopped working for the second time I had checked the oil and it was very low, and there was a creamy white residue on the dipstick, so I immediately drained the oil and there was a decent amount of oil that came out. Btw, I cleaned everything in there thoroughly carb cleaner and blew air with my compressor before I put the new oil in it.
So what I'm getting at, can this be the reason for the problem ? Did I blow the tranny ? If anyone has ever experienced something like this please let me know. Btw, I've attached some pictures, I hope they help. Thank you !

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#2

R

Rivets

When was the last time you changed the belt, as it sounds like your belt or tranny pulley may be worn. Engine oil will have no connection with drive problem.


#3

S

SF1

Rivets said:
When was the last time you changed the belt, as it sounds like your belt or tranny pulley may be worn. Engine oil will have no connection with drive problem.
Click to expand...
You mean there's a belt on here ? OMG where lol


#4

R

Rivets

Sorry l‘ve got my units mixed up. Yours is shaft driven and I had one like that a few years ago where I found that the wheel drive assembly’s were so gummed up that the ratchet pawls could hardly move. Might what to start there. Again for my other post.


#5

S

SF1

Rivets said:
Sorry l‘ve got my units mixed up. Yours is shaft driven and I had one like that a few years ago where I found that the wheel drive assembly’s were so gummed up that the ratchet pawls could hardly move. Might what to start there. Again for my other post.
Click to expand...
Figured you got confused with another post. I've never encountered this before, can you elaborate a little more ? Thanks


#6

R

Rivets

Look at this parts diagram and you will see the ratchet assembly. If they load up with dirt the pawls cannot come out to engage the wheels. https://www.partstree.com/models/hr...sn-hr214-1000001-hr214-9999999/rear-wheel-18/


#7

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SF1

Ok great ! Thank you


#8

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bertsmobile1

Start the mower without the cover over he drive shaft and check it is turning
With a gloved hand try pinching that tube to see if you can make it stop turning with the engine running very slowly .
I have a lot of these in my run used by commercial customers
In the gearbox the pin that the clutch pushes to engage the drive wears down over time because it does not rotate but it pushes agains a rotating part .
The usual symptom is it won't drive from stand still but will if you give it a push to get it started .


#9

S

SF1

bertsmobile1 said:
Start the mower without the cover over he drive shaft and check it is turning
With a gloved hand try pinching that tube to see if you can make it stop turning with the engine running very slowly .
I have a lot of these in my run used by commercial customers
In the gearbox the pin that the clutch pushes to engage the drive wears down over time because it does not rotate but it pushes agains a rotating part .
The usual symptom is it won't drive from stand still but will if you give it a push to get it started .
Click to expand...
Ok, hopefully I can do what you're telling me, have to pin point the parts you're talking about, I try to do everything myself, but this issue is definitely new to me


#10

S

SF1

bertsmobile1 said:
Start the mower without the cover over he drive shaft and check it is turning
With a gloved hand try pinching that tube to see if you can make it stop turning with the engine running very slowly .
I have a lot of these in my run used by commercial customers
In the gearbox the pin that the clutch pushes to engage the drive wears down over time because it does not rotate but it pushes agains a rotating part .
The usual symptom is it won't drive from stand still but will if you give it a push to get it started .
Click to expand...
Hi, I'm going to try what you've mentioned this week, but I wanna be sure I'm doing the right thing. With the engine running slowly I'm going to completely stop the spindle that turns to see if the self propelled lever engages ? If it does or doesn't, what's my next step ? Do I take the gear box apart and check the pin ? Very sorry for my confusion, I'll attempt a lot of things when they need repair, but I just want to have a clearer idea of what I'm doing. Thank you


#11

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bertsmobile1

The drive shaft has some pins that break in the universal joints at each end
So you start the diagnosis by checking that the drive shaft is providing drive to the gear box
Thus first part is to check the drive shaft
There are also some fine splines that can wear flat
So you pinch it when the engine is running and see if it stops turning
Be careful as you can get your fingers caught and the engine has more than enough torque to rip a finger off
If you start to apply pressure to the shaft and it continues to turn quietly or the engine starts to slow down a bit then it is OK
The rubber boots are supposed to be pulled back & the universals greased but I am yet to see one where the home owners has actually done this .


#12

S

SF1

bertsmobile1 said:
The drive shaft has some pins that break in the universal joints at each end
So you start the diagnosis by checking that the drive shaft is providing drive to the gear box
Thus first part is to check the drive shaft
There are also some fine splines that can wear flat
So you pinch it when the engine is running and see if it stops turning
Be careful as you can get your fingers caught and the engine has more than enough torque to rip a finger off
If you start to apply pressure to the shaft and it continues to turn quietly or the engine starts to slow down a bit then it is OK
The rubber boots are supposed to be pulled back & the universals greased but I am yet to see one where the home owners has actually done this .
Click to expand...
Thanks, definitely a little clearer now. I also found some videos on YouTube that might help. Btw, I'm actually one homeowner that does pull the boots back and lubes them with PB blaster (I know I should use grease, gotta get some) but I do it after every cut, or after every 2 cuts ? Thanks for the help 👍


#13

B

bertsmobile1

If the boots are in good nick once or twice a season will be fine
I thought I uploaded this diagram before
215 gearbox.jpg
part 22 & 7 are the ones that usually wear if your problem is in the gear box and not in the drive ratchet as Rivets has already covered
To test those you need to raise the mower & support it very securely
start the engine clap the drive in the on position then grab the axel ( part 12 )
If it stops the problem is in your box if it does not stop then the problem is in the wheel ratchets .
Start from the rear axel & work back or from the drive shaft & work forward .

If you end up diagnosing the box as the problem try moving the clutch lever # 22 one spine further around.
Using it like that will destroy # 22 & # 7 so it is diagnosis purposes only .

I usually find these boxes to be bone dry which is why # 22 & # 7 wear prematurely


#14

S

SF1

Ok, wow this will be a challenging fix for me, I'm definitely getting a buddy to help me with this one, he's no professional but knows way more than me. If I had to pay a shop to do this it would cost an arm and a leg, wouldn't be worth it. I just hope we can do it. Thank you for the clarification !


#15

B

bertsmobile1

These are very robust units
I probably replace 20 wheel ratchets for every box I rebuild
The box is a PIA to remove & replace and the Honda manual assumes you are a factory trained mechanic
This is the instructions from my wholesaler for removing & replacing the entire unit .

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#16

S

SF1

bertsmobile1 said:
These are very robust units
I probably replace 20 wheel ratchets for every box I rebuild
The box is a PIA to remove & replace and the Honda manual assumes you are a factory trained mechanic
This is the instructions from my wholesaler for removing & replacing the entire unit .
Click to expand...
I'm just seeing this message, thank you a whole lot for that. Yes, most manuals definitely assume that you're factory trained, to me that's by design and done intentionally, they make the diagrams like that too, so people like me will go crazy trying to replace linkages or springs. It's almost impossible for me to go by the diagrams. I will let you know how I make out. I'm also working on my troy Bilt lx1842, have to tighten the belt tensioner because the PTO is not engaging, and the belt is too loose. Thank God I have a spare or I'd really be up shits creek. Thank you 👍


#17

B

bertsmobile1

On manual blade engagements the pivot hole and whatever it swings on wear .
A tiny amount of wear at the axis is a big movement at the pulley and then there are angles to take into account
The hole can generally welded up & recut round.
Good mowers will have a replaceable bush, cheaper ones just have a shouldered bolt


#18

S

smzimmer52

HR214 is > 30 years old. The transmission seals become brittle over time and leak. The HR 214 uses 90 weight gear oil inside the transmission. If level gets too low transmission will not self propel. I speak from experience as I just rebuilt a transmission in HR 215 SX which is 3 speed vs. HR 215 2 speed. I have photos of the breakdown. In all likelihood gears should be gone. Transmission and engine interface via governor shaft. There is another seal between engine and governor shaft. Seal is very small in diameter. Contact me if you need additional info. @ zimmerman.stephen@gmail.com


#19

F

first pull

SF1 said:
Hello everyone, I have a classic Honda hr214 push mower, that's been my trust and dependable mower for the last 25 years.
Anyway, to make a long story short the self propel and the stop engage stopped working at the same time. The stop lever is not a big deal cause I just shut it off manually. My main concern is the transmission. When the self propel stopped working one day, then a day later it was working again ? Let me just say that for all of the years I've owned this mower, I've always changed the oil at the beginning of the season, but this year that wasn't the case. So, after the self propel stopped working for the second time I had checked the oil and it was very low, and there was a creamy white residue on the dipstick, so I immediately drained the oil and there was a decent amount of oil that came out. Btw, I cleaned everything in there thoroughly carb cleaner and blew air with my compressor before I put the new oil in it.
So what I'm getting at, can this be the reason for the problem ? Did I blow the tranny ? If anyone has ever experienced something like this please let me know. Btw, I've attached some pictures, I hope they help. Thank you !
Click to expand...
Replace the ground drive belt


#20

R

Rivets

First pull this is a shaft drive system, no belt.


#21

C

cwtex04

I have a HR215 that has the 3 speed and it has been flawless since I bought it in 89 . I did take it in for the first time this spring to have a full tune up done . They changed throttle cable which had stretched over the years and wouldn’t run unless it was in full choke. Hopefully yours is something simple these mowers are almost bulletproof. I thought I was paying a lot back in 89 but looking back it was a bargain. To bad Honda is not going to build mowers anymore.


#22

B

bertsmobile1

cwtex04 said:
I have a HR215 that has the 3 speed and it has been flawless since I bought it in 89 . I did take it in for the first time this spring to have a full tune up done . They changed throttle cable which had stretched over the years and wouldn’t run unless it was in full choke. Hopefully yours is something simple these mowers are almost bulletproof. I thought I was paying a lot back in 89 but looking back it was a bargain. To bad Honda is not going to build mowers anymore.
Click to expand...
They do not stretch
Because they run under the prop shaft cover you get a sump there that water accumulates in and eventually rusts the inner onto the outer


#23

C

cwtex04

bertsmobile1 said:
They do not stretch
Because they run under the prop shaft cover you get a sump there that water accumulates in and eventually rusts the inner onto the outer
Click to expand...
Ok I understand what your saying but that’s not the case for mine . Cable wasn’t rusted , when the old cable was payed out beside the new cable it was slightly longer . I tried adjusting it without any luck . That’s why I took it to the shop that works on Honda mowers. They did what they call a tuneup which consists of oil/filter change , spark plug, air filter, valve adjustment, new throttle cable and new blade . Also cleaned fuel bowl with new gasket and cleaned mower . All for 135 , plus gave me all the old parts . I had done most of it myself so it was done again.


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