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Greetings fellow enthusiasts,
I have a HRX 217 my neighbor gave me. He's cleaning out the shed. He tried starting it with me there by spraying starter fluid in the air cleaner side and it wouldn't stay running. I changed the gas in it and it ran for a little while but was blowing out blue smoke and pretty stinky. I did a compression check and only had 60 LBS. At this point I have taken apart the engine and pulled the piston. It being my first attempt at changing the rings on an engine I can't tell if they are bad or not. The cylinder is very clean, the piston is not scored at all. The top two rings appear to fit in the grooves very well. The oil ring does not stick out like the top compression rings and I wondered if it was "compressed". I have cleaned up the valves and top of piston, lashed the valves with compound (I believe that's what it's called) and now I wonder if the problem was somewhere else. Any direction from here appreciated. Will attempt to post a picture...
Thanks
R&R
Model HRX217KVKA
Engine GJAA16521569 MY9

Take the rings off the piston, and insert them in the bore, and check the end gap - that will give you an indication of how much they are worn. (Factory/desired end gap is published in the service manual for your engine . . .).

You can then move them from the worn areas of the cylinder to the unworn area at the bottom, and with a little math, using the change in the end gap between the worn and unworn area, you can also get a feel for cylinder wear (assuming that you don't have a micrometer suitable to easure the cylinder ID diredtly.

The oil scrapers do not protrude as far as the compression rings unless it is a one piece ring and they have not been used for decades
To make a proper seal you need good rings and a good bore
The bore must have visible cross hatching .
If it has worn through then the bore will need a hone.
There is no signs of excessive ring wear on the piston you have photographed.
Excessive smoke is more likely to be from a blown head gasket or worn out valve stem oil seals.

Excessive smoke is more likely to be from a blown head gasket...

Click to expand...

Just a note...NO head gasket on any GCV engines.

bertsmobile1 said:

The oil scrapers do not protrude as far as the compression rings unless it is a one piece ring and they have not been used for decades
To make a proper seal you need good rings and a good bore
The bore must have visible cross hatching .
If it has worn through then the bore will need a hone.
There is no signs of excessive ring wear on the piston you have photographed.
Excessive smoke is more likely to be from a blown head gasket or worn out valve stem oil seals.

Click to expand...

I don't think this is a cast iron bore, I tore one down and couldn't get a magnet to stick to it. But, is it like a Briggs aluminum bore you don't hone?

is it like a Briggs aluminum bore you don't hone?

Click to expand...

It can be honed and should be (as stated above by Mr. Bert) if cross hatching is worn away.
As an aside, the GCV series of engines is the bottom of the line Honda.
Life expectancy is low. Broken camshafts and belt issues are not unheard of.

Below is the 1st in a series of "how-to's" on repairing a GCV160. From this 1st video, you can access others, including ring replacement. I did a ring job on a 2010-made GCV160 last winter. The mower was not maintained (deck, a mess) and the engine smoked. I bought rings on ebay for $10-15 and used these videos as a guide to disassemble the engine, replace rings, and re-assemble. Did not hone the cylinder because the ring gap looked ok. Have used the mower on a better deck all summer with no smoke; runs great. Not disputing others who say to hone, but in my case it wasn't necessary. If it still smoked because the cylinder was was in fact in need of honing, so what; I was only out a few bucks & the job was fun to do. My regular shop tools were sufficient for this job with one exception; I borrowed a ring compressor from Autozone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B-H5tgxd7E

Wow! What great responses! Really appreciate the education I'm getting on my first engine tear apart. ( I've tore them apart before, but never put back together and wanted them to run again) Never really understood ring gap. I thought that was how much room was between the ring and the piston in the groove.
It's not a cast iron bore, and I'm surprised this engine is at the bottom of the line for Honda's. Opinion or fact? Can you tell me one that you like? (for education purposes. I respect your opinion)
Not sure what Cross hatching is, but I have an idea. Next picture will be of the cylinder itself.
And thanks much for the you tube video's. I have watched a few of them. I don't know how I would have gotten the piston out without one of the video's from a small engine class in Iowa...
Can someone please tell me a brand or type of sealant I need to put the two halves back together and the valve covers.
Again thank you all for responding!
R&R

For sealant I would use Permatex Ultra black. It's maximum oil resistance along with the valve cover too.

Cross hatching
Click on the pic to make it bigger.

Putting a 45° cross hatch is generally referred to as Honing the cylinder. Unlike boring, this is when The cylinder and rings can be standard and not over sized. It helps the rings break in and seal, and helps with oil retention.

And when using sealant I always get bolts snug, then wait the curing time out, then torque to spec.

Thanks for the sealant info.
Here's a picture of the cylinder:



And here are my end gap measurements: Starting at the top and going down into cylinder

1- .015, .014, .013

2. .021,.022

oil ring in the middle of the cylinder- .014
I don't have a service manual so I don't know how those numbers sound..
I was a carpenter. We didn't deal in these tolerances
Thanks!

here ya go https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/atta...15-honda-hrx217-tda-engine-rebuild-img006-jpg
Be sure to read the measurements for Ring End Gap

Thanks again to all who have responded.
Scrubcadet10 you are a busy guy responding to numerous posts, as well as several others on here. You guys restore my faith in this country....Appreciate the picture. My interpretation is my rings are worn to the point of being out of tolerance. Now I have to ask should I also hone the cylinder? I'm going to you tube the search, and I'm pretty sure I can probably borrow a hone from a parts store, I might even have one in my tool box somewhere. Whether of not it will work for my cylinder, I'll post a picture. It seems like the logical thing to do.
At the same time I'm searching for honing I think I will also check out valve guide replacement. Insurance?
Thanks again everybody.
I'm off looking for rings for a: GJAAA1652169 MY9 engine.
KW

https://www.babbittshondageneratorhouse.com/oemparts/c/honda_engines_gcv_series_gcv190/parts

If you look in the picture i gave you, in the Valves section, it will have Stem Outer Diameter (OD), measure it in several places, the stem is what rides in the guide. and the Guide Inner Diameter (ID) is right below it
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/atta...15-honda-hrx217-tda-engine-rebuild-img006-jpg

Rings don't sound too bad, and cylinder wear is likely not bad either, since the end gap only appears tonchange .002" (as per your notes) going down the bore. Since diameter is 2piR (or piD), that makes diameter variance less than 1/1000" top to bottom, and assuming that your lowest measurement was at the absolute, unworn bottom of the cylinder, then my 'scientific back-in' to wear should hold. Note in the manual ****, it says that service specs for rings are more like 1mm, which you are nowhere near. Neither was my GXV140, but it smoked like mad . . . and a re-ring too it to perfect.

For a home, I did as you did and got the loaner from the car parts store. The goal isn't to remove metal, but to just take the glaze off the bore so the new rings will seat.

Oh, and most Honda parts sites will take you to the specific engine and rings based on model and serial of the mower itself . . .

And even if within wear spec, I see no reason not to replace the rings, since you are that far in already. Not sure if the GCV has valve seals, but iff it does (or one was added in later production, as in the GXV) then I suggest you look into it. You might want to refresh the upper and lower crank seals as well while you are there - they are pretty cheap, and a pain to have to go back for. (On mine, due to age, the seals were basically falling out of the case . . . made a huge mess, and one of the main reasons I went into = m]it).

Basically, if an older engine, and I'm in it, I tend to replace any seal subject to wear or deteriorization.

- Tim

I know this is a little off topic, but how do I know what engine mine is? I put the number that's in the casing but I can't find anything close to resembling Babbits list. There are 29 different GCV 190's?
from my search on-line here's what I think it is. 13010-zm5-000
https://www.ereplacementparts.com/h...l-engine-parts-c-37657_37658_37988_37892.html
I'm all for supporting the businesses that help me out on here.. I just want to make sure I get the right thing.
And thanks Tim. Good advice. Making a list.

Look up the HRX217 by serial number with Honda - the engines are listed with the mower. Unless Honda did something different here, the details should be stamped into the block - serial #etc.. If nothing else, check all the listings - for my GXV, there were multiple variants, but the rings, seals, and gaskets were the same for all of them. Typically, the variants are PTO, crank length, etc. and not in the 'core' engine.

FYI, looked up that mower at my favorite Honda site, and there were just 3 main types - HMA, HXA, and TDA, and a K1 variant to the HXA and HMA, for a total of 5 to choose from. Oh, and the GJAA . . . number is the mower serial, not the engine . . . engine serial should be stamped in the engine block somewhere - typically in front . . .

The HRX is hydro drive, the HMA is apparently another hydro variant, and the TDA is non hydro.

Not seeing a "K1" in your model data, I suspect yours is the older variant . . . looking it up, there are two possible ring sets, depending on engine serial, with the latter being the same as the later K1 variant mower, indicating that the engine changed somewhere in the inital build . . . In any case, this diagram should be darn close:

https://www.planopower.com/oem-part...NECTING_ROD____(HRX217//K1//K2//K3//K4//K5)/y

For finding engine info:

https://engines.honda.com/support-and-service/serial-number-locator

Don't go beating yourself up
all the GCV 190 rings are the same with the exception of the oil scrapers and even then they will all interchange.
That is why there is a GCV and GXV and a CV etc etc etc.
The rest is just the shape of the cowel, type of crank , type & position of auxiliary PTO etc etc etc.

You need different rings for an alloy bore, a cast iron bore a steel bole a chrome plated bore a nickasil plated bore which is wwhy there are so many different types of 190cc rings but all of the GXV rings will be the same.