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Hi. I'm working on repairing an MTD Yard Machine 21A-395A129 (front-tined tiller) with a Honda GC160 engine. This is my winter project and, since I'm in SC, I need to be gearing up for business in February and getting out there in March. I wanted to have the tiller ready to use for my vegetable garden as well. I've put fuel in the air intake and the tiller will start and then sputter out. Putting different amounts of fuel in the intake did affect how long the tiller ran. I've replaced the carb and confirmed that the fuel filter and lines work fine. I'm going to try replacing the fuel pump. If that doesn't work, what's left to try? I'm fairly confident that the problem is in the fuel system.

Some extra info: I've done landscape maintenance for another guy and am trying to start my own business. Being a small business with very little income, (I started in September. Not the best time to do that, even in SC.), I'm trying to do as much repair on my equipment as I can, but I have virtually no experience.

Also, I included the model number on the tiller because I have noticed that GC160s at least are assembled slightly differently depending on the machine they are on.



-Ian T. Bristol (Owner)
Carolina Cuttin' Company

https://www.mtdproducts.com/equipme...elNumber=21A-395A129&serialNumber=1E082K40526

click on above site for tiller information, adjust valves every 100 hrs.

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/c/honda_engines_gc_series_gc160/parts

Hi,

You can test if the pump is working, simply when you pull start if fuel is coming out of or not. Do you have a pic a fuel pump ?
Most of the time they don't give that much pressure, but if they are able to pump fuel on a hose higher than the engine it's fine.

I have never seen a fuel pump on a 160 Honda for a tiller or mower......

First time for everything I guess.............

Plus Tard

Yes lol ! obviously it's a good point :laughing:

Carolina Cuttin' Company, you should post pic on what you are doing, so we understand better (if you are still there...)

Here's the fuel pump.

Ok - so I learned something :smile:

You can try to disconnect outlet an see if some fuel is pumped out when pulling on the rope :
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/32312-Honda-GC-160-engine-won-t-start

Thanks everybody for the help. I'll try it out when I get the time.

mechanic mark said:

https://www.mtdproducts.com/equipme...elNumber=21A-395A129&serialNumber=1E082K40526

click on above site for tiller information, adjust valves every 100 hrs.

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/c/honda_engines_gc_series_gc160/parts

Click to expand...

http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do?model_num=21a-395a129&serial_num=&doSearch=Y

thought this may be helpful

mechanic mark said:

http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do?model_num=21a-395a129&serial_num=&doSearch=Y

thought this may be helpful

Click to expand...

I'll look at that. Thanks.

To everyone:

I haven't gotten around to looking at the fuel pump, but I had a thought. I have replaced some of the fuel lines because they were dry-rotted. The new lines were a good bit longer (I can explain why, but it doesn't seem worth posting right now.) Would this cause problems? I've tried to start it enough times in a row that I would think I would have gotten fuel all the way through them if that was the problem.

Carolina Cuttin' Company said:

I'll look at that. Thanks.

To everyone:

I haven't gotten around to looking at the fuel pump, but I had a thought. I have replaced some of the fuel lines because they were dry-rotted. The new lines were a good bit longer (I can explain why, but it doesn't seem worth posting right now.) Would this cause problems? I've tried to start it enough times in a row that I would think I would have gotten fuel all the way through them if that was the problem.

Click to expand...

It would seem whatever rotted the fuel lines might have made the diaphram in the pump go bad........ I have seen the pumps on the bigger Honda's such as the ones on a pressure washer.......

OK. So:

Problem confined to fuel system.
>Carb replaced and confirmed to work.
>Carb gaskets replaced and confirmed to work.
>Fuel lines replaced and confirmed to work.
>Fuel pump replaced and confirmed to work.
>Fuel filter not replaced, but confirmed to work.

The engine still won't start unless fuel is put into the air intake and then in only runs for a couple seconds, depend on how much fuel I give it.

WHAT'S LEFT TO FIX!?

:thumbdown::frown::confused2::mur::confused3::smiley_aafz::shocked:

I am going to take it over to my old boss and he's going to double check my work. As of right now, he's as baffled as I am.

How was the carb and fuel pump confirmed to work if it doesn't run?

You can rule out the carb being the issue simply by running an auxiliary fuel tank, gravity feed to the carb.
If it runs, the carb IS GOOD.

At the same time, FUEL should be spewing out the fuel pump while it's running(fuel in the tank).
If it's NOT, the pump is bad (or issues further up the fuel system)..

Adding fuel to the carb throat, and it runs CONFIRMS A FUELING ISSUE...

Yes, you mentioned all the fuel system OK but still a fuel delivery issue - so as SRTsFZ6 say you missed something...

If you have a drain on the carb, you can open it so this will drain the bowl. After all drained, pull on the rope. If fuel is coming again, all is ok up to the carb (lines, pump).
If you have no fuel in the bowl issue is before the carburetor...

So. The tiller is running. I took it to my boss and he showed me where I had connected a hose wrong.

For anyone who's interested, in the process I replaced the carb, the fuel pump, and the recoil assembly. (All needed repairs, anyway.)

Thanks everyone for the advice!

Thanks for the feedback, happy its running fine now

So, I've put maybe 6 hrs on the tiller since getting it running, and it's run fine... Until July. When it suddenly wouldn't start. I didn't have time to look at it, so I haven't messed with it since.

As mentioned previously, I've replaced the carb, the lines, and the fuel pump (Carb and pump were Chinese knockoffs. I know, I know. Probably not wise.) My lines are all still in place. The fuel filter (16910-ZV4-015, 16915-ZV4-000) was not replaced, so I'm going to go ahead and do that now.

Any thoughts on what it might be if not the fuel filter?

There should be a bowl drain plug on the carb. Pull the rope start about 20 times then remove the bowl drain plug and see if the fuel drains fron the float bowl. If it does not check vacum pulse hose. If pulse hose is good probably bad pump or bad fuel line or filter. If the float bowl was full of fuel you have a carb problem. If the new carb has a shutoff valve be sure it is open.

Hammermechanicman said:

There should be a bowl drain plug on the carb. Pull the rope start about 20 times then remove the bowl drain plug and see if the fuel drains fron the float bowl. If it does not check vacum pulse hose. If pulse hose is good probably bad pump or bad fuel line or filter. If the float bowl was full of fuel you have a carb problem. If the new carb has a shutoff valve be sure it is open.

Click to expand...

OK. Thanks!