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Honda Forum Way Too Quiet
#1
R
Rich M.
R
Rich M.
I guess all of our Hondas are running fine or we would have more new posts.
So to stimulate conversation I am throwing out a starter.
What does everyone think about Briggs and Stratton's new(er) never change oil again technology? To me, it goes against everything I learned about routine oil changes and lubercant qualities. Perhaps, I am just too old and not capable of change in this area.
For me, I change my lawn mower oil twice each year, only because I do cut my lawn often.
If sonehow I did get a mower that had one of these engines, the oil would certain get changed.
Anyone else out there that can throw an opinion at this? I have thick skin to take an opposite opinion. Well, technically my skin is actually thin because of my senior age status.
Happy Memorial Day to all.
So to stimulate conversation I am throwing out a starter.
What does everyone think about Briggs and Stratton's new(er) never change oil again technology? To me, it goes against everything I learned about routine oil changes and lubercant qualities. Perhaps, I am just too old and not capable of change in this area.
For me, I change my lawn mower oil twice each year, only because I do cut my lawn often.
If sonehow I did get a mower that had one of these engines, the oil would certain get changed.
Anyone else out there that can throw an opinion at this? I have thick skin to take an opposite opinion. Well, technically my skin is actually thin because of my senior age status.
Happy Memorial Day to all.
#2
J
jp1961
J
jp1961
Hi Rich,
Happy Memorial Day.
I've never heard of the new Briggs and Stratton technology, so I had to Google it. I must say from the short blurb that I read, I'm not buying into it.
4 cycles engines run their oil without a filter (in most cases), it seems to me you'd want clean oil in it.
It's one of the reason why I prefer Lawn-Boy 2 cycles over the typical 4 cycle engine, you use clean oil every use.
Regards
Jeff
Happy Memorial Day.
I've never heard of the new Briggs and Stratton technology, so I had to Google it. I must say from the short blurb that I read, I'm not buying into it.
4 cycles engines run their oil without a filter (in most cases), it seems to me you'd want clean oil in it.
It's one of the reason why I prefer Lawn-Boy 2 cycles over the typical 4 cycle engine, you use clean oil every use.
Regards
Jeff
#3
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well what do you expect, as all Honda owners know, Hondas run flawlessly for most of the time.
The No 1 problem has always been the rear wheels on the SP's
As for Briggs it is the start of their transfer of all their manufacturing to China , the down grading of their product and end of the business.
The old Sprint engines were good for about 20 to 30 years, the new ones are lucky to go 10.
The accountants masquerading as manager, who have never mowed a lawn, got a polling company to take a pole about what people disliked about mowers.
The focus group came up with "changing the oil" so they set about to fix it.
If all you know about the company you run is the numbers on a spread sheet, it makes perfect sense.
People don't like changing the oil=eliminate oil changes= more sales, works perfect on the spread sheets & pretty coloured graphs & charts.
If it does not work in the market place then it is the fault of the marketing research company, not the psuedo manangers who all paid themselves massive bonuses for getting the "no oil change" project to the market within the time frame they set for themselves to do it.
In 1982 the local mower company down here Victa ( who had 70% ) of the local market & exported world wide, except the USA where they were banned on "safety grounds" becaue they presented a real threat to the USA push mower industry, released the Power torque, the best 2 stroke mower engine ever designed.
The Power Torq enginewas so good, so maintenance free that no one ever mantained them so after 15 years the mower that used to take 1/2 hour to mow the lawn took 1/2 hour to start.
They then decided that Victas were garbage that never worked, stormed out & bought a Honda.
The fact that 20 minutes of work & $ 30 worth of parts restored the engine to "works like new" condition never entered their heads.
The Briggs will go the same way, because you don't have to change the oil, people won't change the oil, or the plug, or the air filter or anything else till eventually it won't start.
When the broken foot heals they will go out and buy anything that does not have a Briggs engine in it.
The No 1 problem has always been the rear wheels on the SP's
As for Briggs it is the start of their transfer of all their manufacturing to China , the down grading of their product and end of the business.
The old Sprint engines were good for about 20 to 30 years, the new ones are lucky to go 10.
The accountants masquerading as manager, who have never mowed a lawn, got a polling company to take a pole about what people disliked about mowers.
The focus group came up with "changing the oil" so they set about to fix it.
If all you know about the company you run is the numbers on a spread sheet, it makes perfect sense.
People don't like changing the oil=eliminate oil changes= more sales, works perfect on the spread sheets & pretty coloured graphs & charts.
If it does not work in the market place then it is the fault of the marketing research company, not the psuedo manangers who all paid themselves massive bonuses for getting the "no oil change" project to the market within the time frame they set for themselves to do it.
In 1982 the local mower company down here Victa ( who had 70% ) of the local market & exported world wide, except the USA where they were banned on "safety grounds" becaue they presented a real threat to the USA push mower industry, released the Power torque, the best 2 stroke mower engine ever designed.
The Power Torq enginewas so good, so maintenance free that no one ever mantained them so after 15 years the mower that used to take 1/2 hour to mow the lawn took 1/2 hour to start.
They then decided that Victas were garbage that never worked, stormed out & bought a Honda.
The fact that 20 minutes of work & $ 30 worth of parts restored the engine to "works like new" condition never entered their heads.
The Briggs will go the same way, because you don't have to change the oil, people won't change the oil, or the plug, or the air filter or anything else till eventually it won't start.
When the broken foot heals they will go out and buy anything that does not have a Briggs engine in it.
#4
S
slow_runner
Well said Bert. Fools that run the show will also try to idiot proof the world. Health and Safety, while there is a need for rules, common sense is a learnt thing and that takes instruction, a willingness to observe, think on and learn.
My obtuse view is: I can see the time that each individual will be placed in a steel cage to protect themselves from harm.
I have a HR214 SP. What is and how can I prevent or minimise the problem with the rear wheels on the SP's ?
Is the problem with the drive pawls or the need for reinforcing of the bearing/carrier hub?
Thanks.
S
slow_runner
Well what do you expect, as all Honda owners know, Hondas run flawlessly for most of the time.
The No 1 problem has always been the rear wheels on the SP's
As for Briggs it is the start of their transfer of all their manufacturing to China , the down grading of their product and end of the business.
The old Sprint engines were good for about 20 to 30 years, the new ones are lucky to go 10.
The accountants masquerading as manager, who have never mowed a lawn, got a polling company to take a pole about what people disliked about mowers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Briggs will go the same way, because you don't have to change the oil, people won't change the oil, or the plug, or the air filter or anything else till eventually it won't start.
When the broken foot heals they will go out and buy anything that does not have a Briggs engine in it.
Well said Bert. Fools that run the show will also try to idiot proof the world. Health and Safety, while there is a need for rules, common sense is a learnt thing and that takes instruction, a willingness to observe, think on and learn.
My obtuse view is: I can see the time that each individual will be placed in a steel cage to protect themselves from harm.
I have a HR214 SP. What is and how can I prevent or minimise the problem with the rear wheels on the SP's ?
Is the problem with the drive pawls or the need for reinforcing of the bearing/carrier hub?
Thanks.
#5
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Lube them regularly.
I use dry lithium grease as does my customers.
Graphite will also work well.
I use dry lithium grease as does my customers.
Graphite will also work well.
#6
S
slow_runner
Thanks Bert, I will take your advice and apply it.
Dry lithium grease??
Is that graphite grease or powder.
As well, after reading a thread or two about these Honda wheels, I am toying with the idea of having some rings turned up to reinforce the hub.
Do you have an opinion on such a modification; is it worthwhile or not?
S
slow_runner
Lube them regularly.
I use dry lithium grease as does my customers.
Graphite will also work well.
Thanks Bert, I will take your advice and apply it.
Dry lithium grease??
Is that graphite grease or powder.
As well, after reading a thread or two about these Honda wheels, I am toying with the idea of having some rings turned up to reinforce the hub.
Do you have an opinion on such a modification; is it worthwhile or not?
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The models we get down here are not the same as what you get in the states.
And of them, I only see what the customers bring in for service.
Most of my work is ride ons.
We don't seem to have much problems with the wheels, or I dont see them.
You will get dry lithium grease from most auto parts stores.
CRC do it.
Also called chassis lube.
It is white and used extensively on car door hinges & locks as it does not stain.
Mower shops will also carry it but they will charge more.
Same story for push bike shops.
It has to dry because if it remains tacky then all the dust would collect to it and become a grinding paste.
And of them, I only see what the customers bring in for service.
Most of my work is ride ons.
We don't seem to have much problems with the wheels, or I dont see them.
You will get dry lithium grease from most auto parts stores.
CRC do it.
Also called chassis lube.
It is white and used extensively on car door hinges & locks as it does not stain.
Mower shops will also carry it but they will charge more.
Same story for push bike shops.
It has to dry because if it remains tacky then all the dust would collect to it and become a grinding paste.
#8
S
slow_runner
S
slow_runner
Bert, there is nothing from the USA here (maybe some tools) although I did have a Harley once but that doesn't count because a large number of its' parts were Japanese:biggrin:
My HR214 wae manufactured in Japan(?) and is all the way from Ballyboffey, Ireland via Tauranga, New Zealand. Now in Auckland.
My HR194 Rolla is from somewhere else and my Victas are from across the ditch.
My HR214 wae manufactured in Japan(?) and is all the way from Ballyboffey, Ireland via Tauranga, New Zealand. Now in Auckland.
My HR194 Rolla is from somewhere else and my Victas are from across the ditch.
#9
R
Rich M.
R
Rich M.
Well, It is good to see forum nembers cracking open the iPads, laptops and phones and throwing out their topics and opinions. Forums like this help us learn through, unfortunately, someone else's difficulty.
So if you get bored over the weekend, throw out another opinion.
So if you get bored over the weekend, throw out another opinion.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
Sorry,
So used to posts from the USa never noticed you were from the 8th State :laughing:
B
bertsmobile1
Bert, there is nothing from the USA here (maybe some tools) although I did have a Harley once but that doesn't count because a large number of its' parts were Japanese:biggrin:
My HR214 wae manufactured in Japan(?) and is all the way from Ballyboffey, Ireland via Tauranga, New Zealand. Now in Auckland.
My HR194 Rolla is from somewhere else and my Victas are from across the ditch.
Sorry,
So used to posts from the USa never noticed you were from the 8th State :laughing:
#11
H
HRX217HZA
H
HRX217HZA
I’ve noticed many forums are quiet (on many subjects). I’ve been told the book of faces, pinterest, instagram and all that sort of stuff is the new way...
Remember listservers? Laser disk? Betamax? 8-Track?
Frankly I think we’d all be better off if the entire internet went down for about 5 years, the world needs a reset before mother-nature does her own... anyway, that is another subject entirely.
As for Briggs. I actually had a Briggs before the Honda it was a pretty good mower engine, though I did change the oil in it. I would probably have bought another one if John Deere had still been making self propelled mowers. Hard to find a Briggs powered push mower that the chassis isn’t junk on (imo). Maybe Toro.
On to the oil change / no oil change. I’m pretty sure most of the public in the US doesn’t change oil in push mowers anyway so Briggs is just turning what people already do into marketing.
On a related note, John Deere has introduced the “Easy Change” 30 second oil change which I think is a better solution to the issue which could be implemented on push mowers.
Remember listservers? Laser disk? Betamax? 8-Track?
Frankly I think we’d all be better off if the entire internet went down for about 5 years, the world needs a reset before mother-nature does her own... anyway, that is another subject entirely.
As for Briggs. I actually had a Briggs before the Honda it was a pretty good mower engine, though I did change the oil in it. I would probably have bought another one if John Deere had still been making self propelled mowers. Hard to find a Briggs powered push mower that the chassis isn’t junk on (imo). Maybe Toro.
On to the oil change / no oil change. I’m pretty sure most of the public in the US doesn’t change oil in push mowers anyway so Briggs is just turning what people already do into marketing.
On a related note, John Deere has introduced the “Easy Change” 30 second oil change which I think is a better solution to the issue which could be implemented on push mowers.
#12
R
Rich M.
A friend of mine just got a John Deere tractor and it has the new drop-in filter. Did not get a chance to really look at it and how it works, but the idea sounds good.
I still stand behind "regular" oil changes for lawn mowers (and vehicles). To me, it is a cheap way to keep things running smoothly for years. Well, hopefully.
R
Rich M.
On a related note, John Deere has introduced the “Easy Change” 30 second oil change which I think is a better solution to the issue which could be implemented on push mowers.
A friend of mine just got a John Deere tractor and it has the new drop-in filter. Did not get a chance to really look at it and how it works, but the idea sounds good.
I still stand behind "regular" oil changes for lawn mowers (and vehicles). To me, it is a cheap way to keep things running smoothly for years. Well, hopefully.
#13
J
jeb721
J
jeb721
Hey all, first post. Going to do a proper hello thread here, but thought I’d offer my thoughts here.
I will say I agree, that Briggs and Stratton life time oil is BS. Does any one know if they still have drain plugs on the bottom? I suppose you could just tilt the engine upside down to drain.
I actually like changing the oil on the mower and snow blower. I like doing the maintenance, it’s fun to me, and likely most of you, that’s why we’re on a lawn mower forum talking about lawn mowers. However I will say I have seen some old Briggs classics and tecumseh’s go a longggggg time with out an oil change, not saying it’s right, but maybe their thoughts were, “no one changes it anyway, let’s just tell em it’s life time oil.”. But of course these motors are cheaper, and likely won’t take the abuse.... which is why I bought a Honda.
I will say I agree, that Briggs and Stratton life time oil is BS. Does any one know if they still have drain plugs on the bottom? I suppose you could just tilt the engine upside down to drain.
I actually like changing the oil on the mower and snow blower. I like doing the maintenance, it’s fun to me, and likely most of you, that’s why we’re on a lawn mower forum talking about lawn mowers. However I will say I have seen some old Briggs classics and tecumseh’s go a longggggg time with out an oil change, not saying it’s right, but maybe their thoughts were, “no one changes it anyway, let’s just tell em it’s life time oil.”. But of course these motors are cheaper, and likely won’t take the abuse.... which is why I bought a Honda.
#14
H
HRX217HZA
There is a kit to de-easy change them if you prefer. I want to dissect one of the easy change filter assemblies and send the oil off for VOA but they are a little expensive at this point and since I don’t have a mower it fits ... well my curiosity isn’t quite that high right now. The concept is relatively simple though, the filter has a bit of new oil in it and a quick (like 1/4 or 1/3 turn) adapter. If I was making it the oil would have a high additive charge, but relatively small amounts of make up oil tend to replenish additive packages anyway.
I think one of the drivers here is to try to make gas mowers competitive with electric mowers which are seen by the younger generations as maintenance free and more environmentally friendly. If you cruise the mower isle at a big box store there are quite a few electric mowers on offer, Husqvarna, Kobalt, Dewalt... Stihl even makes one (not at box stores) i’m a little surprised Honda isn’t in the fray yet.
Then we have the Robotic mowers, which you don’t have to do anything with apart from pay dearly on the front end.
H
HRX217HZA
A friend of mine just got a John Deere tractor and it has the new drop-in filter. Did not get a chance to really look at it and how it works, but the idea sounds good.
I still stand behind "regular" oil changes for lawn mowers (and vehicles). To me, it is a cheap way to keep things running smoothly for years. Well, hopefully.
There is a kit to de-easy change them if you prefer. I want to dissect one of the easy change filter assemblies and send the oil off for VOA but they are a little expensive at this point and since I don’t have a mower it fits ... well my curiosity isn’t quite that high right now. The concept is relatively simple though, the filter has a bit of new oil in it and a quick (like 1/4 or 1/3 turn) adapter. If I was making it the oil would have a high additive charge, but relatively small amounts of make up oil tend to replenish additive packages anyway.
I think one of the drivers here is to try to make gas mowers competitive with electric mowers which are seen by the younger generations as maintenance free and more environmentally friendly. If you cruise the mower isle at a big box store there are quite a few electric mowers on offer, Husqvarna, Kobalt, Dewalt... Stihl even makes one (not at box stores) i’m a little surprised Honda isn’t in the fray yet.
Then we have the Robotic mowers, which you don’t have to do anything with apart from pay dearly on the front end.
#15
R
Rich M.
R
Rich M.
When I began looking at new mowers last year, some of the neighbors wanted me to purchase a battery power mower. Perhaps it is me, but my mind was gas power all the way.
I have plenty of battery operated tools and it seems like I am buying replacement batteries every year or two, which gets a little costly. As for gas mowers, I think I am still ahead of the game with the mower's yearly maintenance and gas costs.
I have plenty of battery operated tools and it seems like I am buying replacement batteries every year or two, which gets a little costly. As for gas mowers, I think I am still ahead of the game with the mower's yearly maintenance and gas costs.
#16
H
HRX217HZA
H
HRX217HZA
I agree on the electric mowers, I still see them as most appropriate to smaller yards with minimal terrain... The fact that the big box stores carry more than one tells me they are selling though. I can also see how if you were for instance a new homeowner, and bought into one battery eco-system for your yard implements (trimmer, blower, edger, mower) there could be advantages. They have come a long way in just a few years. I’m not aware of an electric lawn tractor but I’m sure one will be along...
I’m a fan of internal combustion but... electric is perceived as more environmentally friendly (we get into the whole battery waste / how is the electricity produced argument) so I see a point in the future that internal combustion will be the exception.
I’m a fan of internal combustion but... electric is perceived as more environmentally friendly (we get into the whole battery waste / how is the electricity produced argument) so I see a point in the future that internal combustion will be the exception.
#17
B
broo
B
broo
Hello guys
While my mower isn't a Honda, it does have Briggs' "never change the oil, just check & add" label on it (B&S 675exi). I bought it brand new late 2015 if memory serves. It's a MTD Gold, whatever "gold" means. MTD provided a small bottle with the exact amount of oil to put in the engine. This was synthetic 30 weight oil, yellow-brown like any new oil.
A few weeks ago before mowing for the first time this year, I decided to change the oil anyway, so I drained it by tilting the mower. What came out was thick & grey. I put fresh 30 weight regular oil, 470 ml as specified in the manual and it was right on the full mark on the dipstick.
This push mower doesn't see much use, maybe 30 minutes per week. The rest is done by my zero turn. I expected to see darkened oil as we usually see from used oil. Not grey and certainly not that thick.
So I decided that I will change it every year despite B&S' claim.
While my mower isn't a Honda, it does have Briggs' "never change the oil, just check & add" label on it (B&S 675exi). I bought it brand new late 2015 if memory serves. It's a MTD Gold, whatever "gold" means. MTD provided a small bottle with the exact amount of oil to put in the engine. This was synthetic 30 weight oil, yellow-brown like any new oil.
A few weeks ago before mowing for the first time this year, I decided to change the oil anyway, so I drained it by tilting the mower. What came out was thick & grey. I put fresh 30 weight regular oil, 470 ml as specified in the manual and it was right on the full mark on the dipstick.
This push mower doesn't see much use, maybe 30 minutes per week. The rest is done by my zero turn. I expected to see darkened oil as we usually see from used oil. Not grey and certainly not that thick.
So I decided that I will change it every year despite B&S' claim.
#19
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Because the EPA has a tiny narrow mind the only pollutant is petrol & the resultant CO2.
Thus they ignore the pollution attached to the manufacture & disposal of batteries.
In 10 years or so you will not be able to buy a petrol mower, they will all be battery powered.
10 years after that they will start to notice everything dead for miles around wast disposal sites and start to wonder why.
Thus they ignore the pollution attached to the manufacture & disposal of batteries.
In 10 years or so you will not be able to buy a petrol mower, they will all be battery powered.
10 years after that they will start to notice everything dead for miles around wast disposal sites and start to wonder why.
#20
B
bertsmobile1
It is not a good idea to mix synthetic & non synthetic oils .
The packages in them actually fight against each other.
So decide which oil you are going to use.
Do an oil change after each mow 2 or 3 times then just use that oil from there on .
Go to a boat shop & buy a sump pump which will make oil changes a lot easier & cleaner.
B
bertsmobile1
Hello guys
While my mower isn't a Honda, it does have Briggs' "never change the oil, just check & add" label on it (B&S 675exi). I bought it brand new late 2015 if memory serves. It's a MTD Gold, whatever "gold" means. MTD provided a small bottle with the exact amount of oil to put in the engine. This was synthetic 30 weight oil, yellow-brown like any new oil.
A few weeks ago before mowing for the first time this year, I decided to change the oil anyway, so I drained it by tilting the mower. What came out was thick & grey. I put fresh 30 weight regular oil, 470 ml as specified in the manual and it was right on the full mark on the dipstick.
This push mower doesn't see much use, maybe 30 minutes per week. The rest is done by my zero turn. I expected to see darkened oil as we usually see from used oil. Not grey and certainly not that thick.
So I decided that I will change it every year despite B&S' claim.
It is not a good idea to mix synthetic & non synthetic oils .
The packages in them actually fight against each other.
So decide which oil you are going to use.
Do an oil change after each mow 2 or 3 times then just use that oil from there on .
Go to a boat shop & buy a sump pump which will make oil changes a lot easier & cleaner.
#21
S
slow_runner
Hello Bert. Would you have the number and size O rings that I would require to refresh my Victa and be OK posting here or by PM? Thanks.
Here is our Victa. It had the appearance of only ever been used and not cleaned down at all.
When I got it home I gave it a thorough LP waterblast clean and dried with air. now running OK although I will need to renew the primer bulb/carb cover.
S
slow_runner
In 1982 the local mower company down here Victa ( who had 70% ) of the local market & exported world wide, except the USA where they were banned on "safety grounds" becaue they presented a real threat to the USA push mower industry, released the Power torque, the best 2 stroke mower engine ever designed.
The Power Torq enginewas so good, so maintenance free that no one ever mantained them so after 15 years the mower that used to take 1/2 hour to mow the lawn took 1/2 hour to start.
They then decided that Victas were garbage that never worked, stormed out & bought a Honda.
The fact that 20 minutes of work & $ 30 worth of parts restored the engine to "works like new" condition never entered their heads.
Hello Bert. Would you have the number and size O rings that I would require to refresh my Victa and be OK posting here or by PM? Thanks.
Here is our Victa. It had the appearance of only ever been used and not cleaned down at all.
When I got it home I gave it a thorough LP waterblast clean and dried with air. now running OK although I will need to renew the primer bulb/carb cover.
#22
B
bertsmobile1
No,
They are not standard size O rings
Started new thread about it here http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/48420-Victa-O-ring-Replacement?p=298132#post298132
B
bertsmobile1
Hello Bert. Would you have the number and size O rings that I would require to refresh my Victa and be OK posting here or by PM? Thanks.
Here is our Victa. It had the appearance of only ever been used and not cleaned down at all.
When I got it home I gave it a thorough LP waterblast clean and dried with air. now running OK although I will need to renew the primer bulb/carb cover.
View attachment 38106
No,
They are not standard size O rings
Started new thread about it here http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/48420-Victa-O-ring-Replacement?p=298132#post298132
#24
H
HRX217HZA
H
HRX217HZA
On the subject of oil color.
I’ve always noticed OPE oil looks grey instead of black, I’ve never given it much though since oil color typically means little but it always looks like a graphite additive we used to use at the dealer...
I’ve always noticed OPE oil looks grey instead of black, I’ve never given it much though since oil color typically means little but it always looks like a graphite additive we used to use at the dealer...