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Homeowner looking at used commercial equipment and need advice (all over the map)
#1
L
Lohman446
L
Lohman446
I have been trying to read about various equipment and make a reasonably educated buying decision. I am more interested in making a "good value" buy then being in a particular price range but am also not going to go out and spend $20K on a Ferris with a Cat diesel so lets call my upper spending limit in the $5,000 range. I would rather spend $4500 on a great value than $2500 on paying market value. I much prefer to buy used equipment and am reasonably mechanically inclined. Replacement of a an engine or hydrodrive transmission are not outside of the question if needed but would annoy me at the added cost. I will be mowing about 3-4 acres of mostly flat land though I have a couple hills with reasonable landing areas - one is fairly steep but short.. I am undecided on bagging... if I buy a bagger I will advocate bagging. If not I won't. I have several machines that are coming up on various sights (some of which are auctions from services I have been following to judge pricing) that have peeked my interest. I am also curious if my anticipated pricing is out of range
1) Snapper Pro S200XT 28HP / 61" - this is by far the newest of the bunch showing under 150 hours. The seller (third party auction service) calls it in "like new" condition though I would rate it somewhere in the 8/10 range. The Briggs Commercial Turf engine is really the only thing that keeps me leery of this machine. I expect it to go in the $3500 range. I think I am overthinking the concerns others have noted with the Turf engine.
2) Kubota ZD323 60" - this one shows nearly 1800 hours though appears to be in very well maintained condition. While I have complete confidence in the engine I am concerned about the driveline on this (though cannot do more than minor testing - no chance to get it hot and test it). This has the bagging option on it. Perhaps its a budget buster anyways I am thinking this represents value only if it goes in the $4000 to $4500 range but don't really know on the Kubotas.
3) Scag Cougar 25HP Kohler / 48" deck - this one shows 820 hours. Its on the list but barely. Of all the ones listed this is the one I would be least excited to buy. It also appears well maintained. I'll watch it but it would have to go serious low to buy - like $1500 to $2000. Talk me out of this one
4) JD 757 25HP / 60" deck - this one comes off a farm and shows 1175 hours. I'm gathering space was tight cause there is a lot of marking on the rear of the machine but not on the front. Average condition I expect it to go in the $2500 to $3000 range.
5) Simplicity Citation 23HP Vanguard / 52" deck - the hours are unknown (hour meter inop) on this one which is of some concern. There is a hydraulic leak by the right rear tire and for the life of me I cannot find the price of a the hydrogear unit (then again I am likely calling it the wrong thing). I like the Vanguard engine but not the unknown hours. I'm guessing in the $1000 to $1500 range with those issues.
I am most excited about the Snapper and the Kubota and find myself oddly indifferent about the John Deere (and I normally like green equipment). The Simplicity I could easily get excited about. The Scag... still trying to talk myself into it. I figure we have to have experts here with opinions they want to share and beg your indulgence. Of course the "none of these are good options - wait" option is on the table. Any of them would get fresh fluids and filters before use.
1) Snapper Pro S200XT 28HP / 61" - this is by far the newest of the bunch showing under 150 hours. The seller (third party auction service) calls it in "like new" condition though I would rate it somewhere in the 8/10 range. The Briggs Commercial Turf engine is really the only thing that keeps me leery of this machine. I expect it to go in the $3500 range. I think I am overthinking the concerns others have noted with the Turf engine.
2) Kubota ZD323 60" - this one shows nearly 1800 hours though appears to be in very well maintained condition. While I have complete confidence in the engine I am concerned about the driveline on this (though cannot do more than minor testing - no chance to get it hot and test it). This has the bagging option on it. Perhaps its a budget buster anyways I am thinking this represents value only if it goes in the $4000 to $4500 range but don't really know on the Kubotas.
3) Scag Cougar 25HP Kohler / 48" deck - this one shows 820 hours. Its on the list but barely. Of all the ones listed this is the one I would be least excited to buy. It also appears well maintained. I'll watch it but it would have to go serious low to buy - like $1500 to $2000. Talk me out of this one
4) JD 757 25HP / 60" deck - this one comes off a farm and shows 1175 hours. I'm gathering space was tight cause there is a lot of marking on the rear of the machine but not on the front. Average condition I expect it to go in the $2500 to $3000 range.
5) Simplicity Citation 23HP Vanguard / 52" deck - the hours are unknown (hour meter inop) on this one which is of some concern. There is a hydraulic leak by the right rear tire and for the life of me I cannot find the price of a the hydrogear unit (then again I am likely calling it the wrong thing). I like the Vanguard engine but not the unknown hours. I'm guessing in the $1000 to $1500 range with those issues.
I am most excited about the Snapper and the Kubota and find myself oddly indifferent about the John Deere (and I normally like green equipment). The Simplicity I could easily get excited about. The Scag... still trying to talk myself into it. I figure we have to have experts here with opinions they want to share and beg your indulgence. Of course the "none of these are good options - wait" option is on the table. Any of them would get fresh fluids and filters before use.
#2
G
gainestruk
G
gainestruk
Have you looked at Husqvarna, you can get a new MZ 52 for $4499.95 with endurance commercial series Briggs, $4799.95 for 7000 series Kohler, or $4999.95 for FR series Kawasaki, these all have Hydro-Gear ZT 3100 drives and all are entry level commercial.
They also have MZT 52 $5599.95 with Endurance commercial Briggs, or $5999.95 for commercial FS series Kawasaki, these have Hydro-Gear ZT 3400 drives.
All of these would handle your 3-4 acres with no problem and you would be getting a 3 year warranty.
They also have MZT 52 $5599.95 with Endurance commercial Briggs, or $5999.95 for commercial FS series Kawasaki, these have Hydro-Gear ZT 3400 drives.
All of these would handle your 3-4 acres with no problem and you would be getting a 3 year warranty.
#3
L
Lohman446
I don't really value a warranty as much as some others do. Nice to have? Sure but I am just as likely to do the work myself as bother to load up equipment and haul it into the dealer. I'm not an overly picky person and when I buy used stuff and scratch it by doing something stupid I shrug it off as just another scratch in a collection. I'm not dead certain I can do that with a new one. As I tend to be "value driven" and don't value new (or a warranty) as much as others new seldom represents value to me.
L
Lohman446
Have you looked at Husqvarna, you can get a new MZ 52 for $4499.95 with endurance commercial series Briggs, $4799.95 for 7000 series Kohler, or $4999.95 for FR series Kawasaki, these all have Hydro-Gear ZT 3100 drives and all are entry level commercial.
They also have MZT 52 $5599.95 with Endurance commercial Briggs, or $5999.95 for commercial FS series Kawasaki, these have Hydro-Gear ZT 3400 drives.
All of these would handle your 3-4 acres with no problem and you would be getting a 3 year warranty.
I don't really value a warranty as much as some others do. Nice to have? Sure but I am just as likely to do the work myself as bother to load up equipment and haul it into the dealer. I'm not an overly picky person and when I buy used stuff and scratch it by doing something stupid I shrug it off as just another scratch in a collection. I'm not dead certain I can do that with a new one. As I tend to be "value driven" and don't value new (or a warranty) as much as others new seldom represents value to me.
#4
G
gainestruk
G
gainestruk
Re: Homeowner looking at used commercial equipment and need advice (all over the map
I have no problem with used, was just thinking you could get a new machine for what you're budget is.
For machines you listed I would go with the Snapper Pro, I'm hearing the Commercial Turf Briggs is a good engine.
The Vangard on the Simplicity is a very good engine, but who knows how many hrs.
I have no problem with used, was just thinking you could get a new machine for what you're budget is.
For machines you listed I would go with the Snapper Pro, I'm hearing the Commercial Turf Briggs is a good engine.
The Vangard on the Simplicity is a very good engine, but who knows how many hrs.
#5
L
Lohman446
L
Lohman446
Re: Homeowner looking at used commercial equipment and need advice (all over the map
I appreciate the input and I think for a good number of people new represents great value because of the warranty. I'm a bit off in that regard. Thank you
I have no problem with used, was just thinking you could get a new machine for what you're budget is.
For machines you listed I would go with the Snapper Pro, I'm hearing the Commercial Turf Briggs is a good engine.
The Vangard on the Simplicity is a very good engine, but who knows how many hrs.
I appreciate the input and I think for a good number of people new represents great value because of the warranty. I'm a bit off in that regard. Thank you
#6
Ric
Personally I'd go with the Kubota, It may be a budget buster but it's the best buy of the mowers mentioned IMO. If that is there liquid cooled diesel 1800 hrs is not a lot of hrs for that mower that thing will last you forever. Second choice would be the Scag.
Ric
I have been trying to read about various equipment and make a reasonably educated buying decision. I am more interested in making a "good value" buy then being in a particular price range but am also not going to go out and spend $20K on a Ferris with a Cat diesel so lets call my upper spending limit in the $5,000 range. I would rather spend $4500 on a great value than $2500 on paying market value. I much prefer to buy used equipment and am reasonably mechanically inclined. Replacement of a an engine or hydrodrive transmission are not outside of the question if needed but would annoy me at the added cost. I will be mowing about 3-4 acres of mostly flat land though I have a couple hills with reasonable landing areas - one is fairly steep but short.. I am undecided on bagging... if I buy a bagger I will advocate bagging. If not I won't. I have several machines that are coming up on various sights (some of which are auctions from services I have been following to judge pricing) that have peeked my interest. I am also curious if my anticipated pricing is out of range
2) Kubota ZD323 60" - this one shows nearly 1800 hours though appears to be in very well maintained condition. While I have complete confidence in the engine I am concerned about the driveline on this (though cannot do more than minor testing - no chance to get it hot and test it). This has the bagging option on it. Perhaps its a budget buster anyways I am thinking this represents value only if it goes in the $4000 to $4500 range but don't really know on the Kubotas.
3) Scag Cougar 25HP Kohler / 48" deck - this one shows 820 hours. Its on the list but barely. Of all the ones listed this is the one I would be least excited to buy. It also appears well maintained. I'll watch it but it would have to go serious low to buy - like $1500 to $2000. Talk me out of this one
Personally I'd go with the Kubota, It may be a budget buster but it's the best buy of the mowers mentioned IMO. If that is there liquid cooled diesel 1800 hrs is not a lot of hrs for that mower that thing will last you forever. Second choice would be the Scag.
#7
J
josby
For what it's worth, I was considering a smaller Snapper Pro but had the same concern. I managed to talk to the service manager at a local landscaping business whose fleet has about 30 Snapper zero-turns with that Briggs engine, and about 30 walk-behinds that all had Kawasaki engines. He said he didn't find he had to repair the Briggses any more often than the Kawasakis.
I bought new because I wanted financing, but I'm with you on the warranty issue. I'd rather do the work myself to know everything is torqued to its correct values and such, plus avoid the hassle of hauling it to a dealer, then having to come back again to pick it up.
J
josby
1) Snapper Pro S200XT 28HP / 61" - this is by far the newest of the bunch showing under 150 hours. The seller (third party auction service) calls it in "like new" condition though I would rate it somewhere in the 8/10 range. The Briggs Commercial Turf engine is really the only thing that keeps me leery of this machine. I expect it to go in the $3500 range. I think I am overthinking the concerns others have noted with the Turf engine.
For what it's worth, I was considering a smaller Snapper Pro but had the same concern. I managed to talk to the service manager at a local landscaping business whose fleet has about 30 Snapper zero-turns with that Briggs engine, and about 30 walk-behinds that all had Kawasaki engines. He said he didn't find he had to repair the Briggses any more often than the Kawasakis.
I bought new because I wanted financing, but I'm with you on the warranty issue. I'd rather do the work myself to know everything is torqued to its correct values and such, plus avoid the hassle of hauling it to a dealer, then having to come back again to pick it up.
#8
L
Lohman446
I appreciate hearing that. You know the people who talk to who say "I haven't driven a Ford in 15 years cause there junk and I only buy a Chevy"... I always have to wonder how they know Ford is junk. Its good to hear that someone has had good luck using them. I'm torn between the Kubota and the Snapper right now (the Kubota dealer tells me HST units are rebuild able and a replacement unit is $2300 so at least I know "worst case" on the drive line). The Simplicity keeps grabbing my attention - I found the drive motors for $600 or so online. I'm going to go look at all of them again this afternoon (all three are at auction this coming week). Its an auction and my pricing may be way off on all of them but its becoming a matter of deciding what looks like the best value.
L
Lohman446
For what it's worth, I was considering a smaller Snapper Pro but had the same concern. I managed to talk to the service manager at a local landscaping business whose fleet has about 30 Snapper zero-turns with that Briggs engine, and about 30 walk-behinds that all had Kawasaki engines. He said he didn't find he had to repair the Briggses any more often than the Kawasakis.
I bought new because I wanted financing, but I'm with you on the warranty issue. I'd rather do the work myself to know everything is torqued to its correct values and such, plus avoid the hassle of hauling it to a dealer, then having to come back again to pick it up.
I appreciate hearing that. You know the people who talk to who say "I haven't driven a Ford in 15 years cause there junk and I only buy a Chevy"... I always have to wonder how they know Ford is junk. Its good to hear that someone has had good luck using them. I'm torn between the Kubota and the Snapper right now (the Kubota dealer tells me HST units are rebuild able and a replacement unit is $2300 so at least I know "worst case" on the drive line). The Simplicity keeps grabbing my attention - I found the drive motors for $600 or so online. I'm going to go look at all of them again this afternoon (all three are at auction this coming week). Its an auction and my pricing may be way off on all of them but its becoming a matter of deciding what looks like the best value.
#9
Ric
How bout Ferris, did you look at one of those?
Ric
I appreciate hearing that. You know the people who talk to who say "I haven't driven a Ford in 15 years cause there junk and I only buy a Chevy"... I always have to wonder how they know Ford is junk. Its good to hear that someone has had good luck using them. I'm torn between the Kubota and the Snapper right now (the Kubota dealer tells me HST units are rebuild able and a replacement unit is $2300 so at least I know "worst case" on the drive line). The Simplicity keeps grabbing my attention - I found the drive motors for $600 or so online. I'm going to go look at all of them again this afternoon (all three are at auction this coming week). Its an auction and my pricing may be way off on all of them but its becoming a matter of deciding what looks like the best value.
How bout Ferris, did you look at one of those?
#10
L
Lohman446
I looked at a new Ferris but have not found any used ones that represent value yet. I went and looked at them again today and ran them a limited amount. The Simplicity has a large enough leak it does not move. I simply do not like the Scag (for aa big as it is it feels small). The JD is at a different auction and I did not look at it. Absolutely adore the Kubota but think my target has to be modified. If I buy it for $5500 it would still be a deal I think and the Snapper is a great option b I think
L
Lohman446
How bout Ferris, did you look at one of those?
I looked at a new Ferris but have not found any used ones that represent value yet. I went and looked at them again today and ran them a limited amount. The Simplicity has a large enough leak it does not move. I simply do not like the Scag (for aa big as it is it feels small). The JD is at a different auction and I did not look at it. Absolutely adore the Kubota but think my target has to be modified. If I buy it for $5500 it would still be a deal I think and the Snapper is a great option b I think
#11
Ric
This is just my opinion but Ferris, Snapper and Simplicity are all owned and made by B&S and I personally wouldn't have anything to do with any of them but that's just me. As I said before I think the Kubota would be the best built and buy for the money as well as the best mower for the money. I personally before I did or purchased anything would check out a few others like Toro and Hustler maybe Exmark and compare prices and the quality of their mowers to the mowers your looking at.
Ric
I looked at a new Ferris but have not found any used ones that represent value yet. I went and looked at them again today and ran them a limited amount. The Simplicity has a large enough leak it does not move. I simply do not like the Scag (for aa big as it is it feels small). The JD is at a different auction and I did not look at it. Absolutely adore the Kubota but think my target has to be modified. If I buy it for $5500 it would still be a deal I think and the Snapper is a great option b I think
This is just my opinion but Ferris, Snapper and Simplicity are all owned and made by B&S and I personally wouldn't have anything to do with any of them but that's just me. As I said before I think the Kubota would be the best built and buy for the money as well as the best mower for the money. I personally before I did or purchased anything would check out a few others like Toro and Hustler maybe Exmark and compare prices and the quality of their mowers to the mowers your looking at.
#12
L
Lohman446
I had looked at a couple Toro Z-Masters and one Exmark (which I understand are basically the same mower). Generally speaking my impression was that, quality wise, the major players in the commercial game were pretty much a wash (Kubota, Toro / Exmark, Snapper / Simplicity / Ferris, John Deere, Dixie Chopper). While no doubt some fair better than others and in a fleet of mowers the difference would be important I was not buying a fleet of mowers.
I ended up going over budget and picking up the Kubota for a bit under $6K by the time I get it home. It is the liquid cooled diesel. I was sitting there going spending 6K on a dedicated lawnmower for my own use is not reasonable and realized that thought process was, somehow, arguing that spending 5K (on what most perceive as a lesser mower with the gas engine) was. I am happy with my choice if a touch poorer due to it.
For the sake of the posterity on pricing (including auction fees but not sales tax) of this thread the Snapper went for $3650, the Simplicity went for $2820, and the Scag went for $2920. I did not look to see what the John Deere went for. The Simplicity seemed drastically overpriced to me
L
Lohman446
This is just my opinion but Ferris, Snapper and Simplicity are all owned and made by B&S and I personally wouldn't have anything to do with any of them but that's just me. As I said before I think the Kubota would be the best built and buy for the money as well as the best mower for the money. I personally before I did or purchased anything would check out a few others like Toro and Hustler maybe Exmark and compare prices and the quality of their mowers to the mowers your looking at.
I had looked at a couple Toro Z-Masters and one Exmark (which I understand are basically the same mower). Generally speaking my impression was that, quality wise, the major players in the commercial game were pretty much a wash (Kubota, Toro / Exmark, Snapper / Simplicity / Ferris, John Deere, Dixie Chopper). While no doubt some fair better than others and in a fleet of mowers the difference would be important I was not buying a fleet of mowers.
I ended up going over budget and picking up the Kubota for a bit under $6K by the time I get it home. It is the liquid cooled diesel. I was sitting there going spending 6K on a dedicated lawnmower for my own use is not reasonable and realized that thought process was, somehow, arguing that spending 5K (on what most perceive as a lesser mower with the gas engine) was. I am happy with my choice if a touch poorer due to it.
For the sake of the posterity on pricing (including auction fees but not sales tax) of this thread the Snapper went for $3650, the Simplicity went for $2820, and the Scag went for $2920. I did not look to see what the John Deere went for. The Simplicity seemed drastically overpriced to me
#13
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Those prices tell you someting don't they.
Congratulations.
I have never worked on a Kubots that I would not have been happy to call my own.
PS I am in Aust so som of the mowers mentioned I do not see down here.
Congratulations.
I have never worked on a Kubots that I would not have been happy to call my own.
PS I am in Aust so som of the mowers mentioned I do not see down here.
#14
Ric
Toro and Exmark are both Made by Toro so there basically the same mower, them followed by Hustler and Scag are your Major Players commercially at least around here.. Dixie Chopper, Kubota, Gravely are all real good mowers and I think are probably some of the most underrated mowers on the market. The rest are B&S wannabes. I guess rating mowers comes down to what part of the country your in as to what people like or dislike or what works best for a particular location.
Ric
.I had looked at a couple Toro Z-Masters and one Exmark (which I understand are basically the same mower). Generally speaking my impression was that, quality wise, the major players in the commercial game were pretty much a wash (Kubota, Toro / Exmark, Snapper / Simplicity / Ferris, John Deere, Dixie Chopper). While no doubt some fair better than others and in a fleet of mowers the difference would be important I was not buying a fleet of mowers.
I ended up going over budget and picking up the Kubota for a bit under $6K by the time I get it home. It is the liquid cooled diesel. I was sitting there going spending 6K on a dedicated lawnmower for my own use is not reasonable and realized that thought process was, somehow, arguing that spending 5K (on what most perceive as a lesser mower with the gas engine) was. I am happy with my choice if a touch poorer due to it.
For the sake of the posterity on pricing (including auction fees but not sales tax) of this thread the Snapper went for $3650, the Simplicity went for $2820, and the Scag went for $2920. I did not look to see what the John Deere went for. The Simplicity seemed drastically overpriced to me
Toro and Exmark are both Made by Toro so there basically the same mower, them followed by Hustler and Scag are your Major Players commercially at least around here.. Dixie Chopper, Kubota, Gravely are all real good mowers and I think are probably some of the most underrated mowers on the market. The rest are B&S wannabes. I guess rating mowers comes down to what part of the country your in as to what people like or dislike or what works best for a particular location.
#15
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
And you forgot the biggie Ric.
Your own history with the particular brand.
Nothing colours ones opinions better than getting stuck with a lemon, or being dissapointed after buying a highly over rated mower.
Your own history with the particular brand.
Nothing colours ones opinions better than getting stuck with a lemon, or being dissapointed after buying a highly over rated mower.
#16
Ric
What biggie did I forget?
Ric
And you forgot the biggie Ric.
Your own history with the particular brand.
Nothing colors ones opinions better than getting stuck with a lemon, or being disappointed after buying a highly over rated mower.
What biggie did I forget?
#17
L
Lohman446
This goes both ways (though I do not have a history of what others have gone through). For instance I thought about posting my thoughts on the mower after using it in far less than ideal conditions on Sunday after I got it home but everything about this purchase increases my desire to be happy with the machine so I am. I have no experience to compare my use of this machine to (other than what others have cautioned me on) so my opinion on it is based on extremely limited use and a lack of useful comparisons. I used it in wet conditions on some hill areas I thought would be a concern based on what others had written and the thing never wiggled - my biggest concern was alleviated and then it was all smooth sailing.
Though my wife did come out to try it (I did remove the bagger because it was too wet to bag) and everything close to the house and the road and the field is now mowed neatly so I am gathering she liked it.
L
Lohman446
And you forgot the biggie Ric.
Your own history with the particular brand.
Nothing colours ones opinions better than getting stuck with a lemon, or being dissapointed after buying a highly over rated mower.
This goes both ways (though I do not have a history of what others have gone through). For instance I thought about posting my thoughts on the mower after using it in far less than ideal conditions on Sunday after I got it home but everything about this purchase increases my desire to be happy with the machine so I am. I have no experience to compare my use of this machine to (other than what others have cautioned me on) so my opinion on it is based on extremely limited use and a lack of useful comparisons. I used it in wet conditions on some hill areas I thought would be a concern based on what others had written and the thing never wiggled - my biggest concern was alleviated and then it was all smooth sailing.
Though my wife did come out to try it (I did remove the bagger because it was too wet to bag) and everything close to the house and the road and the field is now mowed neatly so I am gathering she liked it.
#18
Ric
The Kubota should hold hills very well considering its weight. Just don't every turn down a slope or grade because your weight could work against you.
Ric
This goes both ways (though I do not have a history of what others have gone through). For instance I thought about posting my thoughts on the mower after using it in far less than ideal conditions on Sunday after I got it home but everything about this purchase increases my desire to be happy with the machine so I am. I have no experience to compare my use of this machine to (other than what others have cautioned me on) so my opinion on it is based on extremely limited use and a lack of useful comparisons. I used it in wet conditions on some hill areas I thought would be a concern based on what others had written and the thing never wiggled - my biggest concern was alleviated and then it was all smooth sailing.
Though my wife did come out to try it (I did remove the bagger because it was too wet to bag) and everything close to the house and the road and the field is now mowed neatly so I am gathering she liked it.
The Kubota should hold hills very well considering its weight. Just don't every turn down a slope or grade because your weight could work against you.