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Help Needed - Zero Turn Radius

#1

KM Richards

KM Richards

I have a Toro TimeCutter MX 5475 that is having an intermittent issue that I'm hoping is just a sensor that can be by passed

I can start the mower just fine, but the last couple of times I have used the mower... once I start it up, it dies when I bring the levers in to back out of my shed. It does the same thing if I turn the blades on, it'll quit running immediately.

Not sure what I did really to get it to start working as normal. I just kept bringing in the levers and when it started to die, I'd move them outward again and it would remain running. It took like 5 minutes of messin with it before it started working so I could go mow my yard.

On mine, the steering levers have always had to be all the way out before the engine will start - and I pull them in and can go forward or backward as normal. I just bought the mower last June and it's been working perfectly all the times I've used it - until when I mowed my yard last week, and again today... is when this issue first started happening

Does this issue sound like maybe a sensor is going bad?

Is there anyway to bypass these sensors to avoid this issue?
No sure why this is needed (I'm not gonna cut my foot of or anything :rolleyes: )

If anybody has any thoughts or ideas on what to try, please let me know. Thanks!


#2

H

hlw49

sounds like a seat switch or a safety control module. Not familiar with your mower. looking for someone in the seat when you bring the lever in. r the brakes activated when you push the levers out and released when you pull them in.


#3

KM Richards

KM Richards

I'm in the seat when bringing the levers in and the engine starts to cut off.

And, I didn't know the mower had brakes - so I'm not applying the brakes that I know of.

I'm not doing anything different than I have been since I bought the mower.

I guess I need to call Toro to see if they can walk me thru doing some trouble shooting over the phone.

I wish I could simplify the mower and bypass the safety features as that's just stuff that's gonna break down


#4

M

MParr

Man, those cheap Toro switches. Brake module switch or seat safety switch.


#5

KM Richards

KM Richards

Is there a good source to buy these online some where?


#6

B

bertsmobile1

Lift the seat and locate the seat switch plug.
It should be a 2 prong plug
Jump the plug .
Problem goes away = faulty seat switch.
It is there to protect you particularly when in a brain dead mode you reach down to clear a blocked output chute .
It is there to protect others so if you should pass out, have a fit, or fall off the mower it does not go carrering down the road.
Had a customer who sufferred some sort of seizure while mowing the road strip.
The mower ended up hitting 2 of the neighbours cars.
Insurance company declined the claim because he had bypassed the safeties a $36,000 mistake .


#7

M

MParr

There are two easy ways to check the seat safety switch. One is to pull the switch plug and jump it. Then try starting your mower and moving the control arms. If that works it’s definitely the switch. The other way is remove the switch and test the continuity with a multimeter. Set the multimeter to Ohms, put the probes on the male ends of the switch and mash the button a couple of times. This will show if the switch is opening and closing.
One thing more. Can you hear the parking brake module activate? Turn the key on and manipulate the steering bars. The engine DOES NOT need to be running. Do you hear a the module open and close?


#8

KM Richards

KM Richards

Thanks guys!, I'll try that to see if the switch is bad or not


Can you hear the parking brake module activate? Turn the key on and manipulate the steering bars. The engine DOES NOT need to be running. Do you hear a the module open and close?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, so I'll need to go out and see

If nothing is coming on, does this also point to a bad seat switch plug?


#9

H

hlw49

No seat switch is only active when the park brake is off. You can start the mower with the park brake set and not be on the seat. On most mowers


#10

H

hlw49

Park bake is in the steering levers. When you move them out they activate the brakes


#11

B

bertsmobile1

hlw49 said:
No seat switch is only active when the park brake is off. You can start the mower with the park brake set and not be on the seat. On most mowers
Click to expand...
Time cutters have seat switches that go through the brake module & the switch needs to be closed to crank the engine
And yes the parking brake is activated by the lap bars being fully out, A PIA when servicing because of the timer .


#12

M

MParr

Maybe this will help @KM Richards understand.


#13

KM Richards

KM Richards

Thanks for the video! I downloaded that and put it in my mower info folder.


#14

KM Richards

KM Richards

the switch needs to be closed to crank the engine
Click to expand...

The engine cranks just fine.
The issue is when I bring the levers in to start using the mower, that's when the engine die.

I'll start by putting a jumper wire in the switch under the seat and see what happens

And, I'll check the ground wire along with other wiring to see if anything is out of place.


#15

KM Richards

KM Richards

I put a jumper wire in the switch connector under the seat that did not help.
And, all the wiring seems to be connected well with nothing appearing to be out of place

The video posted is for 2011 teat model and I bought mine in June of 2020, so I'm wondering if their setup has changed


#16

M

MParr

It may be time to take it to a reputable repair shop. I could probably diagnose the problem if I could put my hands on your mower. You need to determine if the brake control module is functioning properly. The brake control module works in tandem with the seat safety switch. If this mower is still under warranty, take it to a Toro servicing dealer.


#17

M

MParr

Have you read the operators manual thoroughly? There is a section in there called “Testing The Safety Interlock System.”


#18

KM Richards

KM Richards

Yes, the brake control module seems to be functioning properly

I'll look thru the ,manual to find the test section and see what that says


#19

B

bertsmobile1

Well the module is not working properly
The ONLY reasons why the engine stops when you pull in the levers is the module sees the brake still being on or the operator not being in the seat
So you can get under & manually work the brake as occasionally you do get a build up that stops it fully retracting
Other than that the module is deceased .


#20

M

MParr

bertsmobile1 said:
Well the module is not working properly
The ONLY reasons why the engine stops when you pull in the levers is the module sees the brake still being on or the operator not being in the seat
So you can get under & manually work the brake as occasionally you do get a build up that stops it fully retracting
Other than that the module is deceased .
Click to expand...
That’s my thinking too. The module is sensing that there is no one in the seat.


#21

B

bertsmobile1

MParr said:
That’s my thinking too. The module is sensing that there is no one in the seat.
Click to expand...
Or the brake has not fully dissengaged .
This is one job that really needs to go to a dealer unless you are very good with wiring .
It could be a wiring problem but most likely it will be the module.
They go bad all the time but if you buy a new one, install it and the bad wiring blows it or the bad wiring repeats the problems you have spent a lot of money for nothing .


#22

M

MParr

bertsmobile1 said:
Or the brake has not fully dissengaged .
This is one job that really needs to go to a dealer unless you are very good with wiring .
It could be a wiring problem but most likely it will be the module.
They go bad all the time but if you buy a new one, install it and the bad wiring blows it or the bad wiring repeats the problems you have spent a lot of money for nothing .
Click to expand...
That’s why I said that I could diagnose it, if I could put my hands on it. It’s probably still under warranty.


#23

KM Richards

KM Richards

I'm looking forward to giving it a proper burial

How much do you think these thongs cost? I found a Toro dealer, but they are about 35 miles away and I'm going to have to rent a trailer to get the mower over there. And, they said they have about a 4 to 6 week backlog right now.

Unless this thing is mega expensive, it would be worth it to me to buy a new module and put it on myself.

I scanned thru the parts list I found online for this model and haven't seen the module.
I'll need to spend more time going thru it more thoroughly to see if I can find the part number

I've spent years working on cars / pickups and can easily find part online at various places such as RockAuto.com

Too bad they don't have an online parts dealer for lawn mowers where you can buy parts online and have them shipped in.

If they have such a place on the net, please let me know


#24

KM Richards

KM Richards

Or... I could by pass the module like this guy did...



#25

M

MParr

You can order parts online. Find the manufacturers decal or plate. Get the model number and serial number. It’s not going to be MX xxxx. It will a five digit number beginning with a 7. The serial number is next to it. It will be needed because, there may have been some design changes.


#26

gamma_ray

gamma_ray

KM Richards said:
I have a Toro TimeCutter MX 5475 that is having an intermittent issue that I'm hoping is just a sensor that can be by passed

I can start the mower just fine, but the last couple of times I have used the mower... once I start it up, it dies when I bring the levers in to back out of my shed. It does the same thing if I turn the blades on, it'll quit running immediately.

Not sure what I did really to get it to start working as normal. I just kept bringing in the levers and when it started to die, I'd move them outward again and it would remain running. It took like 5 minutes of messin with it before it started working so I could go mow my yard.

On mine, the steering levers have always had to be all the way out before the engine will start - and I pull them in and can go forward or backward as normal. I just bought the mower last June and it's been working perfectly all the times I've used it - until when I mowed my yard last week, and again today... is when this issue first started happening

Does this issue sound like maybe a sensor is going bad?

Is there anyway to bypass these sensors to avoid this issue?
No sure why this is needed (I'm not gonna cut my foot of or anything :rolleyes: )

If anybody has any thoughts or ideas on what to try, please let me know. Thanks!
Click to expand...
It does sound like the seat sensor. It doesn't detect an operator sitting on the mower.


#27

S

snnoopy

KM Richards said:
I have a Toro TimeCutter MX 5475 that is having an intermittent issue that I'm hoping is just a sensor that can be by passed

I can start the mower just fine, but the last couple of times I have used the mower... once I start it up, it dies when I bring the levers in to back out of my shed. It does the same thing if I turn the blades on, it'll quit running immediately.

Not sure what I did really to get it to start working as normal. I just kept bringing in the levers and when it started to die, I'd move them outward again and it would remain running. It took like 5 minutes of messin with it before it started working so I could go mow my yard.

On mine, the steering levers have always had to be all the way out before the engine will start - and I pull them in and can go forward or backward as normal. I just bought the mower last June and it's been working perfectly all the times I've used it - until when I mowed my yard last week, and again today... is when this issue first started happening

Does this issue sound like maybe a sensor is going bad?

Is there anyway to bypass these sensors to avoid this issue?
No sure why this is needed (I'm not gonna cut my foot of or anything :rolleyes: )

If anybody has any thoughts or ideas on what to try, please let me know. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I had the same problem. I did like you, repeating actions and eventually started and kept running. I started using the mower more often and the problem subsided. I'm thinking build up of corrosion over switches. High humidity can do that.


#28

M

Miss Delivery

KM Richards said:
I have a Toro TimeCutter MX 5475 that is having an intermittent issue that I'm hoping is just a sensor that can be by passed

I can start the mower just fine, but the last couple of times I have used the mower... once I start it up, it dies when I bring the levers in to back out of my shed. It does the same thing if I turn the blades on, it'll quit running immediately.

Not sure what I did really to get it to start working as normal. I just kept bringing in the levers and when it started to die, I'd move them outward again and it would remain running. It took like 5 minutes of messin with it before it started working so I could go mow my yard.

On mine, the steering levers have always had to be all the way out before the engine will start - and I pull them in and can go forward or backward as normal. I just bought the mower last June and it's been working perfectly all the times I've used it - until when I mowed my yard last week, and again today... is when this issue first started happening

Does this issue sound like maybe a sensor is going bad?

Is there anyway to bypass these sensors to avoid this issue?
No sure why this is needed (I'm not gonna cut my foot of or anything :rolleyes: )

If anybody has any thoughts or ideas on what to try, please let me know. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The two levers that let you push the mower manually are not engaged, are they? They won’t let you drive but I don’t know about stalling out.


#29

S

SHB

On our eXmark there are 3 interlocks related to starting and keeping up running. To start
- PTO off, brake set, think I need to be in the seat
- Motor running, brake needs to be off before you can bring the levers in from the park position, if the brake is on the motor dies. This is what sounds like is happening in your case, it thinks the brakes are on.
- To get out of the seat with the motor running the PTO needs to be off, levers out, brake on

Believe all of this is mandated by the CPSC.


#30

M

MParr

gamma_ray said:
It does sound like the seat sensor. It doesn't detect an operator sitting on the mower.
Click to expand...
The brake control module and seat switch are tied together. The OP said he tried jumping it and it didn’t remedy the situation. Who knows? I could diagnose it in a couple of minutes if, I was there with him. All you have to do is pull the connector of of the seat switch and jump the terminal. Crank the mower and move the steering levers inward. The brake control module should release and you should be able to drive the mower. If, after jumping the seat connector and cranking, the mower shuts down when moving the steering levers inward, the brake control module is bad.


#31

C

CaptFerd

KM Richards said:
Or... I could by pass the module like this guy did...
Click to expand...
Iv done the same thing. BS part for a mower.


#32

S

shreder

MParr said:
Man, those cheap Toro switches. Brake module switch or seat safety switch.
Click to expand...
check the 2 fuses under the key


#33

S

shreder

check the 2 fuses under the key


#34

S

SlopeMan2

My Bad Boy ZTR acted something like this. The safety switch wire terminal, on the bottom of the control arm, would sometimes touch the frame, and it would die right there. It was different, in that it would blow a fuse. I replaced several fuses before I found it. But, it does sound similar. I wonder if you could have a loose connection in those wires. Good luck. It can sure be frustrating.


#35

M

MParr

SlopeMan2 said:
My Bad Boy ZTR acted something like this. The safety switch wire terminal, on the bottom of the control arm, would sometimes touch the frame, and it would die right there. It was different, in that it would blow a fuse. I replaced several fuses before I found it. But, it does sound similar. I wonder if you could have a loose connection in those wires. Good luck. It can sure be frustrating.
Click to expand...
That particular series of Toro mowers is unique. It’s the only series that uses an electronic brake controller. Hustler uses something similar on their mowers. Most mowers use a simple parking brake with a switch attached to the mower. Brake on, plunger on switch is activated.


#36

D

davisjt1977

Here is a test that may help confirm or deny your thinking. Most mower engine ignition coils use a ground tab located on the coil which is connected thru the wiring to all the safety circuits & other controls. If you will remove the shroud cover on the engine ( look up the manual/maintenance procedures ), find the coil, disconnect the wire connected to the ground tab. Start the engine (sitting on the seat switch), see if it dies when you move the levers. If it DOES NOT DIE then this confirms the trouble is in the wiring or switches. Re-assemble & continue as needed.


#37

KM Richards

KM Richards

Well, I went out to tinker with the mower

And, I turned the key on without starting the engine (engine always starts as long as levers are out)

With the key on. I moved the levers in and I can hear the module moving or doing something.

Then, I moved the levers out and I hear the module moving or doing something

So, with the key on I can hear the module doing something each time I move the levers in or if I move the levers out

Then when I started the engine and brought the levers in - it kept running as normal and I'm able to use the mower as normal.

Thru all this, do you think I reset something?


#38

KM Richards

KM Richards

Reading comments after a video found at

Here's something I need to consider that one guy told of concerning his experience...


FYI - I had this same problem. I disconnected the linkage to the breaks so I could move the machine. I then stopped at a dealership and picked up a new BCM. Only took 10 minutes to install. I thought I was home free. Not so much. With the new BCM installed and connected, I still had problems. The brake actuator would partially move. The mower would start and charge, but engaging the blade killed it after 10 seconds.

I thought I had installed a faulty module but when I went back to the dealership, the tech asked me if it was possible there was corrosion on the pins of the connector. I went home and spent 10 minutes disconnecting the harness to the module, inspected it and found corrosion on 2 of the pins. After a thorough cleaning, I reconnected the module and bang, everything now works fine. In my view, the problem is not a faulty module, but the connection between the harness and the module.

Dirt and moisture can get in even though there is a cover over the assembly. I removed the new assembly and put in the old assembly and it worked fine. Perhaps there are cases where the poor connection can cause the module to fail? I don't think there is a problem with the assembly, there is a problem with the connector and corrosion. I have now completely wrapped the harness and connector to the new assembly with electrical tape to keep it weather and dust proof. Try this before replacing your BCM. It only takes 10 minutes.
Click to expand...


#39

D

Donr

The seat switch is there to keep you safe and will open if you come off the seat! Jumping out the switch is bad idea as I have seen many safties jumped out and leave the jumper remains in place as long as the mower will run so they leave the jumper installed. The multimeter is the best way to test the set switch, set to the ohms position. With the probes leads touching the pins in the plug push in firmley on the middle of the seat, many meters have a tone setting in the ohms position that will buzz when the switch has pressure applyed you apply pressure to the seat, indiacating the switch is closed. Once you remove pressure from the seat the meter will stop buzzing indiacate an open circuit.
It does not make any difference which way the red or black probe is eather side of the plug.


#40

M

MParr

I’m done with this thread. It’s become pointless.


#41

KM Richards

KM Richards

The seat switch is there to keep you safe and will open if you come off the seat! Jumping out the switch is bad idea as I have seen many safties jumped out and leave the jumper remains in place as long as the mower will run so they leave the jumper installed. The multimeter is the best way to test the set switch, set to the ohms position. With the probes leads touching the pins in the plug push in firmley on the middle of the seat, many meters have a tone setting in the ohms position that will buzz when the switch has pressure applyed you apply pressure to the seat, indiacating the switch is closed. Once you remove pressure from the seat the meter will stop buzzing indiacate an open circuit.
It does not make any difference which way the red or black probe is eather side of the plug.
Click to expand...

So, I need to somehow put the PINs of the multimeter into the connector of the switch under the seat while the plugin is still inserted in the switch?

Sounds kinda hard to do ans then sit on the seat to test, but I can see how that would show when the circuit is open or closed.


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