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Hey guys, really need some help here :-(. I'm usually pretty mechanically inclined when it comes to larger engines but I'm still learning the smaller ones.

Equipment: Log Splitter
Brand: Dirty Hand Tools 27 Ton
Engine: Kohler
Model: SH-265
Series: SH 3000

I bought the splitter 2 years ago, Brand New and it worked great until I let someone borrow it who preceded to leave it in the rain for several days and now it:

Cranks but will not start.

I replaced the Carb with a brand new unit as the bowl was rusted on the original. I drained all the old fuel before replacing the carb. I bypassed the on/off switch, still nothing. I pulled the plug and grounded it against the exhaust manifold and saw spark when the engine was rotated heavily, however, I could not see spark unless the plug was grounded.

Before I start throwing ignition system components at it (as there fairly expensive) I was hoping someone here could help me.

This manual may be of some help. Review the troubleshooting procedures and comeback with specific questions. I know I’m putting the burden on you, but we would be throwing darts at the wall with the little info you provided.
http://kohlerengines.com/engines/onlinecatalog/pdf/18_690_01_EN.pdf

I read the manual several times...

And Step 1 under ignition says to go back to checking fuel, etc if the plug has spark. Well the plug does have spark when grounded but is not visible when not grounded.

Grounding of plug is necessary to complete the circuit and therefore produce spark.
No ground = No spark.
This is true in larger engines as well....No difference.

Take off valve cover and check for proper operation of valves and adjust them. Put cover back on and try to start. What type of carb did you buy? Chinese Knock-off or genuine oem parts? Sometimes the genuine ones are defective and more often the knock-offs are bad. Is the fuel tank full of trash and water? Is there a fuel filter on the fuel line? If so, replace.

Plus one re grounding. If there's spark grounded, your good there.

You can confirm a fueling issue by squirting a little bit of starting fluid (carb cleaner) into the intake, while cranking over.

It SHOULD fire and run shortly (NOW having fuel). If it doesn't, you have a different issue..


BTW, did you flush the fuel system, lines, fuel pump, etc before installing the new carb? If not, you would have pumped crap (water) back into the carb. I would put a small CLEAN container (I use a tuna fish can) under the float bowl and drain. See what comes out. You can also flush the system with the bowl off (turn gas on and let run till no more water appears).

SRTsFZ6 said:

Plus one re grounding. If there's spark grounded, your good there.

You can confirm a fueling issue by squirting a little bit of starting fluid (carb cleaner) into the intake, while cranking over.

It SHOULD fire and run shortly (NOW having fuel). If it doesn't, you have a different issue..


BTW, did you flush the fuel system, lines, fuel pump, etc before installing the new carb? If not, you would have pumped crap (water) back into the carb. I would put a small CLEAN container (I use a tuna fish can) under the float bowl and drain. See what comes out. You can also flush the system with the bowl off (turn gas on and let run till no more water appears).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply!!

I tried that: I cleaned the original carb and then sprayed Carb Cleaner directly into and it would not start, nothing... Just backfire

I drained all the fuel out of the system via the fuel line until it all ran out. I then refilled with fresh fuel and examined nothing but clean fuel coming out of the line before reinstalling the new Carb.

I have only been able to get the engine to backfire at this point; it smells heavily of fuel which means it would be running rich and receiving fuel - Spark plug tip is wet when removed as well.

I'm not familiar with how the ignition system works but if its a traditional system like on other engines, the timing will be retarded to the point of no-start and (sometimes backfire) if all components aren't in working order, correct?

dfbroxy said:

Take off valve cover and check for proper operation of valves and adjust them. Put cover back on and try to start. What type of carb did you buy? Chinese Knock-off or genuine oem parts? Sometimes the genuine ones are defective and more often the knock-offs are bad. Is the fuel tank full of trash and water? Is there a fuel filter on the fuel line? If so, replace.

Click to expand...

It's a genuine Kohler carb... I've learned to stray away from Chinese garbage, had my fair share of bad experiences, ha

328ifun said:

Thanks for the reply!!

I tried that: I cleaned the original carb and then sprayed Carb Cleaner directly into and it would not start, nothing... Just backfire

I drained all the fuel out of the system via the fuel line until it all ran out. I then refilled with fresh fuel and examined nothing but clean fuel coming out of the line before reinstalling the new Carb.

I have only been able to get the engine to backfire at this point; it smells heavily of fuel which means it would be running rich and receiving fuel - Spark plug tip is wet when removed as well.

I'm not familiar with how the ignition system works but if its a traditional system like on other engines, the timing will be retarded to the point of no-start and (sometimes backfire) if all components aren't in working order, correct?

Click to expand...

You would think that you could leave a piece of heavier equipment in the rain and not have this happen... I see people that have log splitters sitting outside year around with no problems. I'm just thinking that one of the electrical components may have gotten wet... dont know :-(

You can't just leave big equipment inside a shed now days & expect them to fire right up next season either.
I spend a lot of time cleaning up engines full of evaporation residue.

The spark is generated by the magnet on the outside of the flywheel passing a coil on the outside of the flywheel.
So the position of the flywheel with respect to the piston is critical and set by a shear key.
Remove the bolt that holds the flywheel on and there is a better than average chance you will see the 2 halves of the key slot do not make a perfect square.
A single backfire can cause the key to shear.

When left outside things get corrosion which for instance can cause a valve to stick open thus when the cam relieves pressure the pushrod can fall off.
So you need to confirm the flywheel key is intact so the spark is happening at the correct time and that the valves are going in & out.

The final thing to check is the exhaust.
Small animals , insects and the like will nest in there over winter cause it is nice & dry.
Insects will build mud nests that block off the exhaust and small critters die then on the first engine stroke get blown back into the outlet & plug it off.

Because small engines only rev to a modest 4000 rpm most of them have a very small amount of retard if any at all.
All engine makers have experimented with various types of solid state spark timing and although most worked fairly well they have just about all abandoned the systems as the power gain & easier starting were not considered worth the extra expense.

We who fix equipment notice the extra power & better starting but Joe Public does not and due to mass ignorance Joe Public will always go for the engine with the bigger capacity, cause bigger has to be better dosen't it?

If your magneto coil has only 1 thin wire then it is a simple system , if it has 2 or 3 then it is an electronically timed engine.

If you really want to leave your splitter outside over winter then you need to do some simple prep to make sure it will start up next seasom.
1) run the engine & fuel tank dry
2) replace the oil with fresh oil
3) plug the exhaust
4) loosen the drain bolt in the carb bowl so condensed water can get out.
5) grease all exposed moving parts

Well, from what YOU'VE been told, it was just left in the rain. Getting wet will not kill the motor as mentioned, especially with you flushing the system.

**We don't IF that's all that was done to the engine.

I suspect your going to have to do some digging. Perhaps the flywheel key way SHEARED, throwing off timing. You can get a general idea after pulling the main cover over, feeling for TDC (and using a screw driver to see TDC with the piston. Magnets should be super close to the magneto then..

Check all wiring to the coil/ kill switch.

Make sure the combustion chamber is dry (and there IS spark-plug isn't fouled) before cranking over. Then after pulling several times, (making sure the choke works), the spark plug is damp.

As Bert noted (as I was typing at the same time), pull the valve cover and check to see if the push rods are in place, not bent, etc. It'll also help you find TDC...

This is awesome guys, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to start tackling what you all have suggested tomorrow as soon as I get off work.

I suspect I'll need more help so I may post some pictures and ask more detailed questions.

TDC question: so with the magnet on the flywheel lined up with the airgap/ignition coil + piston at the top of the stroke would equal TDC for this engine?

I'll probably post a picture of the keyslot so you guys can help me evaluate

Thanks again

328ifun said:

This is awesome guys, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to start tackling what you all have suggested tomorrow as soon as I get off work.

I suspect I'll need more help so I may post some pictures and ask more detailed questions.

TDC question: so with the magnet on the flywheel lined up with the airgap/ignition coil + piston at the top of the stroke (PISTON at TDC is TDC. A FLYWHEEL WITH A SHEARED KEY COULD BE ANYWHERE) would equal TDC for this engine?

Click to expand...

Actually yes, but your not at TDC compression stroke. It's a four stroke, one compression cycle for every 4 strokes(two revolutions).

If you watch your intake valve open and then close (turning the crank), the piston will come to TDC-COMPRESSION/(SPARK) stroke.

If you don't have the valve cover off, you can feel (spark plug out), cranking slowly, compression building up with your finger over the spark plug hole. I put a screwdriver carefully down then hole WHEN CLOSE, then rotate the crank back and forth until the pistons at it's highest point, now you have TDC/compression stroke..

The magnets on the flywheel should be real close at that point. If it's not, time to remove the flywheel nut and inspect.


*BTW, generally, on most engines, this is where you would check / adjust your valves... The cam lobes are farthest away from the valves...

At TDC the second magnet will be right at the left leg of the coil.... Not lined up perfectly.... As in both mags lined up with the 2 legs of the coil.........

Depends on Horizontal or Vertical.............Here's a link to some pictures of different engines.... As you can see all are about the same.......

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/top_dead_center.asp

Hey everyone sorry for such a late reply...

I pulled the fly wheel cover off and the magnets seems to be pretty close

However the flywheel itself pretty darn rusty

Alright I think I found a problem...



I pulled the valve cover and one of the valves is inoperable

The spring is not extended and there's no pressure on the push rod/ pin

I was able to pull the pin/rod completely out

Not sure what this means? Maybe the spring has seized ?

Going upload a video in a minute

So I went out and bought some PB-Blast,

Soaked the stuck valve real good, gave it a few taps, and it came loose.

Pretty sure, it was the cause of the no-start condition

Freezing temperatures, rain, and being left outside probably caused the valve to stick in the position it was left in

Inside of the fuel tank is still completely rusted so I had to order a new one... $80 bucks, crazy.

Next steps:
1. Change oil
2. Replace Fuel Tank
3. Clean rust off flywheel

And I'm thinking she should be good again, will report back soon

Thanks again

Unless tank is completely rusted through, they can usually be refurbished to like new condition.

Russ2251 said:

Unless tank is completely rusted through, they can usually be refurbished to like new condition.

Click to expand...

It's pretty bad

to the point of flakes peeling off.

Don't even think of using a really rusty tank .
Rust flakes will break up really fine and clog up everything.
For the purpose of testing , pinch a tank of something else, a snow blower, push mower, motorcycle, invilid chair.
Don't matter what just so long as it has a tap .
Fit a nice new fuel filter, the bigger the better.
And yes you don't need much moisture to cause a valve to rust into place & jamb.
They usually free right up but if it is the inlet valve they oft take the oil seal with them so it will blow a little smoke.
That means no slacking off as she will know if the splitter is working hard or not :laughing:

bertsmobile1 said:

Don't even think of using a really rusty tank .
Rust flakes will break up really fine and clog up everything.
For the purpose of testing , pinch a tank of something else, a snow blower, push mower, motorcycle, invilid chair.
Don't matter what just so long as it has a tap .
Fit a nice new fuel filter, the bigger the better.
And yes you don't need much moisture to cause a valve to rust into place & jamb.
They usually free right up but if it is the inlet valve they oft take the oil seal with them so it will blow a little smoke.
That means no slacking off as she will know if the splitter is working hard or not :laughing:

Click to expand...

I didn't think the rust was a good think, will go to auto parts store and get, a filter

I think it was the exhaust valve, was valve furthest from carb closest to exhaust!

Alright,

Got the thing all put back together.

Got it running but it won't stay running or turns off If I adjust the throttle

Carb is new
Pulled the plug carbon fouled

Whats next? Adjust valves?

OK. Sounds like the last reply was the closest to being on target. That engine, if not equipped with an exhaust deflector over the outlet on the muffler will fill with water. When you 'primed' it and it back-fired through the carb, you most likely have an exhaust valve rusted closed. Remove the valve cover and spark plug. Pull over...are both valves moving? If not, spray some good penetrating oil around valve stem and let sit overnight. Spray some more and see if you can get it to free up with some 'light' taps on the valve stem. Hopefully it frees up easily. Once free, spray some more lube and continue to pull over until it is operating smoothly. Reassemble and get to work.

Note: If your muffler does not have the exhaust deflector, get one.

Honda Tech said:

OK. Sounds like the last reply was the closest to being on target. That engine, if not equipped with an exhaust deflector over the outlet on the muffler will fill with water. When you 'primed' it and it back-fired through the carb, you most likely have an exhaust valve rusted closed. Remove the valve cover and spark plug. Pull over...are both valves moving? If not, spray some good penetrating oil around valve stem and let sit overnight. Spray some more and see if you can get it to free up with some 'light' taps on the valve stem. Hopefully it frees up easily. Once free, spray some more lube and continue to pull over until it is operating smoothly. Reassemble and get to work.

Note: If your muffler does not have the exhaust deflector, get one.

Click to expand...

Good advice, particulary about the deflector.
Always good to have another tech on line.
He did have a stuck valve but it looked like that was overcome a while back

I thought I'd follow up with everyone.

Installed the new tank today tried starting and it wouldn't stay running

swapped the plug out and it runs fine

Thanks for advice and help - I learned quite a bit