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Help get my Kohler started!!
#1
J
jeeptj04
J
jeeptj04
Short version: Toro 36" walk behind, proline with the cv13t command pro pull start. It hasn't run in 5 or 6 years. After a few pulls, it will start for a few seconds and quit.
Got this mower at an auction from a place where it was used non-commericially as a maintenance mower for a couple acre property. They used it for a year or two then bought new and this mower set for 5 to 6 years. I know that doesn't make any sense, but it was government owned and so that should explain why they would do something so nonsensical.
Anyways, I picked it up and the pull start was very hard to pull. After I took the top cover off, what was causing the friction was the little electrical connections that I presume make the spark plug spark. I adjusted it so that it wasn't rubbing so hard, thought it still touches. Are these electrical connections on the flywheel actual supposed to touch?
I then drained the gas from the line at the carb, and refilled with good gas. The oil looked good, a little above "full" but not too dirty. I figured I'd get it to run then change the oil. Put a new plug in and attempted to start. It started for a few seconds after a few pulls, then die. Then wouldn't start again for another 8 or so pulls, then again stay started for only few seconds.
The next day I emptied the carb bowl since there was still bad gas in there. There was some flakey deposits floating around. Let the bowl fill up with good gas and tried to start again. It would only stay started for a few seconds then die again, just like the day before.
Am I making a stupid mistake and not taking it off "choke" right after it starts or something? Not sure why it dies so quickly. Any thoughts???
Thanks!
Got this mower at an auction from a place where it was used non-commericially as a maintenance mower for a couple acre property. They used it for a year or two then bought new and this mower set for 5 to 6 years. I know that doesn't make any sense, but it was government owned and so that should explain why they would do something so nonsensical.
Anyways, I picked it up and the pull start was very hard to pull. After I took the top cover off, what was causing the friction was the little electrical connections that I presume make the spark plug spark. I adjusted it so that it wasn't rubbing so hard, thought it still touches. Are these electrical connections on the flywheel actual supposed to touch?
I then drained the gas from the line at the carb, and refilled with good gas. The oil looked good, a little above "full" but not too dirty. I figured I'd get it to run then change the oil. Put a new plug in and attempted to start. It started for a few seconds after a few pulls, then die. Then wouldn't start again for another 8 or so pulls, then again stay started for only few seconds.
The next day I emptied the carb bowl since there was still bad gas in there. There was some flakey deposits floating around. Let the bowl fill up with good gas and tried to start again. It would only stay started for a few seconds then die again, just like the day before.
Am I making a stupid mistake and not taking it off "choke" right after it starts or something? Not sure why it dies so quickly. Any thoughts???
Thanks!
#2
reynoldston
reynoldston
I don't know what you mean by electrical connections hitting flywheel? If you are talking about the ignition module you should have what they call a air gap. This should be somewhere around .012 away from the flywheel. It also sounds like the complete fuel system could use a good cleaning including the carburetor.
#3
J
jeeptj04
J
jeeptj04
OK, yes it is the ignition module and the magnet on the flywheel. The magnet is making contact with it so I'll adjust it so that there is small gap.
#4
reynoldston
reynoldston
Yes it hasn't got to be perfit but somewhere in the neighbor hood of .012 + or -. most people use a business card which is very close.
#5
C
Cork
C
Cork
Pull the plug and put it back in the plug wire. Find a good clean ground source on the mower preferably against a head fin or bolt and hold the end of the plug against it. Turn the motor over with the pull cord and observe the spark color and pattern. The color should be crisp and blue, the pattern should be consistant. Try pulling it over a few times to make sure it fires consistant ever time. Report back with your findings.Short version: Toro 36" walk behind, proline with the cv13t command pro pull start. It hasn't run in 5 or 6 years. After a few pulls, it will start for a few seconds and quit.
Got this mower at an auction from a place where it was used non-commericially as a maintenance mower for a couple acre property. They used it for a year or two then bought new and this mower set for 5 to 6 years. I know that doesn't make any sense, but it was government owned and so that should explain why they would do something so nonsensical.
Anyways, I picked it up and the pull start was very hard to pull. After I took the top cover off, what was causing the friction was the little electrical connections that I presume make the spark plug spark. I adjusted it so that it wasn't rubbing so hard, thought it still touches. Are these electrical connections on the flywheel actual supposed to touch?
I then drained the gas from the line at the carb, and refilled with good gas. The oil looked good, a little above "full" but not too dirty. I figured I'd get it to run then change the oil. Put a new plug in and attempted to start. It started for a few seconds after a few pulls, then die. Then wouldn't start again for another 8 or so pulls, then again stay started for only few seconds.
The next day I emptied the carb bowl since there was still bad gas in there. There was some flakey deposits floating around. Let the bowl fill up with good gas and tried to start again. It would only stay started for a few seconds then die again, just like the day before.
Am I making a stupid mistake and not taking it off "choke" right after it starts or something? Not sure why it dies so quickly. Any thoughts???
Thanks!
#6
J
jeeptj04
Ok, pulled the plug (the new one that only has 3-4 starts on it) and the ceramic was blackened. Tried the test anyways and was getting a somewhat yellow spark. Maybe it was how I rigged it up, I took some rosin core solder and wrapped it around the spark plug threads and routed about 12" of it to a bolt that was threaded into the block below the carb.
Then I put a new plug in, got the mower to start for a few seconds again and quit immediately. I rigged the plug up again the same way and couldn't get a visible spark. Grabbed another new plug and still couldn't make it spark.
When it does start, it winds all the way up to peak rpm's then dies immediately and winds back down.
J
jeeptj04
Pull the plug and put it back in the plug wire. Find a good clean ground source on the mower preferably against a head fin or bolt and hold the end of the plug against it. Turn the motor over with the pull cord and observe the spark color and pattern. The color should be crisp and blue, the pattern should be consistant. Try pulling it over a few times to make sure it fires consistant ever time. Report back with your findings.
Ok, pulled the plug (the new one that only has 3-4 starts on it) and the ceramic was blackened. Tried the test anyways and was getting a somewhat yellow spark. Maybe it was how I rigged it up, I took some rosin core solder and wrapped it around the spark plug threads and routed about 12" of it to a bolt that was threaded into the block below the carb.
Then I put a new plug in, got the mower to start for a few seconds again and quit immediately. I rigged the plug up again the same way and couldn't get a visible spark. Grabbed another new plug and still couldn't make it spark.
When it does start, it winds all the way up to peak rpm's then dies immediately and winds back down.
#7
J
jeeptj04
J
jeeptj04
Since I'm not getting spark anymore, I tried the ohmeter test in the service manual. I set the ohmeter to 20 and got a reading of 16.10 plus or minus. I'm assuming that means 16,100 ohms, which is within the range specified in the manual when you put one lead in the spark plug boot and one on the laminations of the ignition module.
Not sure why the spark went away all of the sudden.
Also tried holding the plug against the block fin, no spark.
Not sure why the spark went away all of the sudden.
Also tried holding the plug against the block fin, no spark.
#8
reynoldston
reynoldston
So did you set your air gap? The only true test for spark is if the plug is under compression which you need a tester for. You can buy one from most auto parts store for under 5 dollars and very easy and fast to use. I have a couple of different styles in my tool which I use often.
#9
C
Cork
The yellow spark may be from wrong air gap on the mag n coil. I would go back to the magneto. If it were me I would do this: unbolt the coil and using a hand file id remove all the rust from the area where the coil makes connection with the block, id then clean the area where the coil seats on the block. This will make sure when you bolt it back up that you are getting a solid ground. With the coil off use steel wool, 200 grit sand paper, or something thats pretty fine and clean the area on the flywheel where the magnets are. Get the nice and clean again, then clean up the ends of the coil that "touch" the flywheel. Use a paper business card for the air gap between the flywheel and coil. Once thats tightened up see if you can get the rubber boot off the end of the plug wire and with insulated pliers hold the wire so that the plug end is about a quarter inch from a head bolt and turn it over. Eliminate using a spark plug for now until you are sure that your getting spark to the connector. These are methods that can be done with no investments and very basic tools. I know that the correct ways to test are with meters but some of us dont have them around. See if this helps ya at all. I would not recommend using the length of solder wire anymore for testing stuff. Try to do these test right off the end of the plug wire. Once you get a consistent spark to the wire end then you should reset the gap on the plug to spec and see if she will fire up.
C
Cork
Since I'm not getting spark anymore, I tried the ohmeter test in the service manual. I set the ohmeter to 20 and got a reading of 16.10 plus or minus. I'm assuming that means 16,100 ohms, which is within the range specified in the manual when you put one lead in the spark plug boot and one on the laminations of the ignition module.
Not sure why the spark went away all of the sudden.
Also tried holding the plug against the block fin, no spark.
The yellow spark may be from wrong air gap on the mag n coil. I would go back to the magneto. If it were me I would do this: unbolt the coil and using a hand file id remove all the rust from the area where the coil makes connection with the block, id then clean the area where the coil seats on the block. This will make sure when you bolt it back up that you are getting a solid ground. With the coil off use steel wool, 200 grit sand paper, or something thats pretty fine and clean the area on the flywheel where the magnets are. Get the nice and clean again, then clean up the ends of the coil that "touch" the flywheel. Use a paper business card for the air gap between the flywheel and coil. Once thats tightened up see if you can get the rubber boot off the end of the plug wire and with insulated pliers hold the wire so that the plug end is about a quarter inch from a head bolt and turn it over. Eliminate using a spark plug for now until you are sure that your getting spark to the connector. These are methods that can be done with no investments and very basic tools. I know that the correct ways to test are with meters but some of us dont have them around. See if this helps ya at all. I would not recommend using the length of solder wire anymore for testing stuff. Try to do these test right off the end of the plug wire. Once you get a consistent spark to the wire end then you should reset the gap on the plug to spec and see if she will fire up.
#10
J
jeeptj04
J
jeeptj04
OK, I got everything cleaned up a far as all of the connections, like you said. I gapped the ignition coil properly with a business card and gapped the spark plug to 1.0 mm. The spark went away before because the PTO switch wasn't functioning properly. I now have a nice looking blue spark, but couldn't get the engine to fire up after about 10 to 15 pulls. My arm is killing me at this point :ashamed:
Any more troubleshooting ideas/tips?
Any more troubleshooting ideas/tips?
#11
reynoldston
reynoldston
These are methods that can be done with no investments and very basic tools.
You can't get much more basic then a spark tester. It not a meter but only a bulb on the end of a wire. Very simple to use one end on the plug wire and the other end go's on the plug. This will tell you the whole story without even pulling the plug out and you don't even need a plug socket. If the light lights good to go and if not you need ignition work. You can buy one from any auto parts store for less then 5 dollars and if taken care of it will last a life time. Also seeing most people will try a new spark plug which will cost this five dollars and don't need it so it can't be the money and you just made the trip to the store anyways. I just can't understand why no one wants to use a spark tester.
You can't get much more basic then a spark tester. It not a meter but only a bulb on the end of a wire. Very simple to use one end on the plug wire and the other end go's on the plug. This will tell you the whole story without even pulling the plug out and you don't even need a plug socket. If the light lights good to go and if not you need ignition work. You can buy one from any auto parts store for less then 5 dollars and if taken care of it will last a life time. Also seeing most people will try a new spark plug which will cost this five dollars and don't need it so it can't be the money and you just made the trip to the store anyways. I just can't understand why no one wants to use a spark tester.
#12
J
jeeptj04
J
jeeptj04
Well, based on the spark tests I've been doing, I'm getting good blue spark. I've given it a few cranks for the past couple of days and no start. I smell gas after a few pulls.
I think I'm going to pull the carb off and clean it out well since it's had bad gas in it for the better part of a decade. I'm going to use this cleaning and disassembly I found as a guide here: Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Walbro LMK Carburetor used on Kohler Command and Courage Single Any suggestions other than this?
I think I'm going to pull the carb off and clean it out well since it's had bad gas in it for the better part of a decade. I'm going to use this cleaning and disassembly I found as a guide here: Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Walbro LMK Carburetor used on Kohler Command and Courage Single Any suggestions other than this?
#13
reynoldston
reynoldston
If it had gas in it for the last decade I would say go though the complete fuel system. Clean fuel tank, replace hoses and fuel filter, and clean carburetor.