You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
Found my leak, now what??
#1
C
cdestuck
C
cdestuck
Engine is a Kawasaki 18 hp v twin with a heck of a leak. Here is the original thread explaining it
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/39911-FH531V-18-hp-v-twin-leaking-tons-of-oil
So what I found, the crankshaft exits the bottom of the engine to hold the main drive pulley and the pto. The shaft diameter at the oil seal is about 1 1/4". Approx 1/16" below where the seal is the diameter drops down to 1". Do, after the engine runs for about 15-20 minutes, something allows the crankshaft move up vertically. This moves the area that the hits down to the 1" diameter and then the oil begins running out.
Now I can't imagine what is allowing The crankshaft to move upward but it does. There is evidence of this as the drive pulley which is on the crankshaft is located just below a flat piece in the frame. When the engine is cool you can feel approximately 1/8 to 1/4 inch between the pulley and the bottom of the frame. But after you take off the pto and drive pulley, you can see where the crank pulls the pulley up and hits the frame as it has all the paint word off.
Now it appears the crank and cases uses no bearings but looks like there are bushings case into the case halves. Then the engine part pictures shows two snap rings, one in the bottom of the lower half and one in the top of the lower case.
So what do you all think could have caused this and any fix? Or has anyone else ever seen of the same type of thing.
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/39911-FH531V-18-hp-v-twin-leaking-tons-of-oil
So what I found, the crankshaft exits the bottom of the engine to hold the main drive pulley and the pto. The shaft diameter at the oil seal is about 1 1/4". Approx 1/16" below where the seal is the diameter drops down to 1". Do, after the engine runs for about 15-20 minutes, something allows the crankshaft move up vertically. This moves the area that the hits down to the 1" diameter and then the oil begins running out.
Now I can't imagine what is allowing The crankshaft to move upward but it does. There is evidence of this as the drive pulley which is on the crankshaft is located just below a flat piece in the frame. When the engine is cool you can feel approximately 1/8 to 1/4 inch between the pulley and the bottom of the frame. But after you take off the pto and drive pulley, you can see where the crank pulls the pulley up and hits the frame as it has all the paint word off.
Now it appears the crank and cases uses no bearings but looks like there are bushings case into the case halves. Then the engine part pictures shows two snap rings, one in the bottom of the lower half and one in the top of the lower case.
So what do you all think could have caused this and any fix? Or has anyone else ever seen of the same type of thing.
#3
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
From memory you were previously sent to http://www.mymowerparts.com/about_us.php to download the Kawakasi repair manual for your engine, if not do it now.
Again from memory the maximum allowable end float ( crankshaft movement along it's axis ) is 0.005"
So if your crank is moving that far either it or the case is toast.
In any case the engine will have to come out & apart.
A couple of the engine makers usually fit thrust washers between the crank & the case & I think Kawakasi is one of them so check the parts diagrams before you pull the engine apart.
It will be either a new crank or a spacer between the crank & case to fix the problem, but in reality a replacement engine would be a lot easier.
If there is the slightest chance that you can get a warranty claim then take the whole mower back and show the dealer.
Again from memory the maximum allowable end float ( crankshaft movement along it's axis ) is 0.005"
So if your crank is moving that far either it or the case is toast.
In any case the engine will have to come out & apart.
A couple of the engine makers usually fit thrust washers between the crank & the case & I think Kawakasi is one of them so check the parts diagrams before you pull the engine apart.
It will be either a new crank or a spacer between the crank & case to fix the problem, but in reality a replacement engine would be a lot easier.
If there is the slightest chance that you can get a warranty claim then take the whole mower back and show the dealer.
#4
C
cdestuck
Hopefully this will work. I'll post one link to the view of the case and related parts and another with the view of the crankshaft.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/kawasaki-fh531vas05-stroke-engine-parts-c-30157_30211_31499.html
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/kawasaki-fh531vas05-stroke-engine-parts-c-30157_30211_31499.html
ha, those two links look the same so I think it'll take you to the page where you can click on each view for a blow up.
C
cdestuck
Can you include the engine diagram you are referencing?
Hopefully this will work. I'll post one link to the view of the case and related parts and another with the view of the crankshaft.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/kawasaki-fh531vas05-stroke-engine-parts-c-30157_30211_31499.html
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/kawasaki-fh531vas05-stroke-engine-parts-c-30157_30211_31499.html
ha, those two links look the same so I think it'll take you to the page where you can click on each view for a blow up.
#5
C
cdestuck
Yes I did download and keep the manual. I know the end play is very excessive that allows that type of movement. One thing that baffles me is that it will not move when pushed by hand but it takes about 20 minutes of running and it'll then move on it's own. Then before I can rip off the deck, pto, and drive pulley it all goes back to original position. The diagrams or manual mentions nothing in the way of shims or thrust washers which would prob control this problem if put between the crank and upper half of the case. I've questioned both the Deere dealer and the small engine instructor at our vo tch school without any help. I even emailed Kawasaki USA with the problem but haven't heard back from them yet. As to warranty, no way on that, Ha, tractor is a 2001. And trying to find this engine has been a no go so far. Just too old I guess. I'm just trying to do this without getting into a ton of money as it's my churches mower and there's not a ton of money there, in fact if they have to pick up another mower to take its place, I'll be dishing out for it's purpose but I'm ok with that. Thanks for any info.
C
cdestuck
From memory you were previously sent to http://www.mymowerparts.com/about_us.php to download the Kawakasi repair manual for your engine, if not do it now.
Again from memory the maximum allowable end float ( crankshaft movement along it's axis ) is 0.005"
So if your crank is moving that far either it or the case is toast.
In any case the engine will have to come out & apart.
A couple of the engine makers usually fit thrust washers between the crank & the case & I think Kawakasi is one of them so check the parts diagrams before you pull the engine apart.
It will be either a new crank or a spacer between the crank & case to fix the problem, but in reality a replacement engine would be a lot easier.
If there is the slightest chance that you can get a warranty claim then take the whole mower back and show the dealer.
Yes I did download and keep the manual. I know the end play is very excessive that allows that type of movement. One thing that baffles me is that it will not move when pushed by hand but it takes about 20 minutes of running and it'll then move on it's own. Then before I can rip off the deck, pto, and drive pulley it all goes back to original position. The diagrams or manual mentions nothing in the way of shims or thrust washers which would prob control this problem if put between the crank and upper half of the case. I've questioned both the Deere dealer and the small engine instructor at our vo tch school without any help. I even emailed Kawasaki USA with the problem but haven't heard back from them yet. As to warranty, no way on that, Ha, tractor is a 2001. And trying to find this engine has been a no go so far. Just too old I guess. I'm just trying to do this without getting into a ton of money as it's my churches mower and there's not a ton of money there, in fact if they have to pick up another mower to take its place, I'll be dishing out for it's purpose but I'm ok with that. Thanks for any info.
#6
7394
7394
Can you get the engine model # off the engine & etc ? If so call Kawasaki & ask to speak to a tech. I have done this & they were very helpful.
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well in that case I would forget about repairing the engine and go look for a replacement.
At this time of year the discount engine suppliers will be chockers with unused engines from mowers that did not get made last year.
Should be some new mower pulls ( upgraded engine gets fitted for next season ) available.
OTOH I just organised one of those 5 handed deals for one of the local ameteur sporting clubs.
The distibutor of a Mower made a tax deductable donation of the full cost of a new ride on to them then of course they gave the cheque back to pay for the mower.
Win win ( except for the tax man ) & I would imagine Church donations in the USA would get the same tax treatment.
I buy a lot of engines from
Surplus Center
Small Engine Warehouse
Small Engine Suppliers
Repower.
If you are happy to do some wire swapping it will most likley be the easiest and quite probably the least cost alternative.
kawakasi parts are the most expensive.
And because different engines are offered in the same mower, most of the fitment dimensions are the same so you just need to worry about shaft diameter & length.
If you swap out to a Briggs or Kohler check the alternator output because you will need to be in the 9 amp area to run an electric PTO & recharge the battery.
The engines usually wear between the bottom of the crank & the spiggot in the sump that the crank rests on.
This wears down till the flywheel fouls on the outside of the crank case or the rods let go because they are running out of square with the crank.
So I really do not think your current engine will be a viable repair
At this time of year the discount engine suppliers will be chockers with unused engines from mowers that did not get made last year.
Should be some new mower pulls ( upgraded engine gets fitted for next season ) available.
OTOH I just organised one of those 5 handed deals for one of the local ameteur sporting clubs.
The distibutor of a Mower made a tax deductable donation of the full cost of a new ride on to them then of course they gave the cheque back to pay for the mower.
Win win ( except for the tax man ) & I would imagine Church donations in the USA would get the same tax treatment.
I buy a lot of engines from
Surplus Center
Small Engine Warehouse
Small Engine Suppliers
Repower.
If you are happy to do some wire swapping it will most likley be the easiest and quite probably the least cost alternative.
kawakasi parts are the most expensive.
And because different engines are offered in the same mower, most of the fitment dimensions are the same so you just need to worry about shaft diameter & length.
If you swap out to a Briggs or Kohler check the alternator output because you will need to be in the 9 amp area to run an electric PTO & recharge the battery.
The engines usually wear between the bottom of the crank & the spiggot in the sump that the crank rests on.
This wears down till the flywheel fouls on the outside of the crank case or the rods let go because they are running out of square with the crank.
So I really do not think your current engine will be a viable repair
#8
7394
7394
"Kawasaki parts are the most expensive."
That is very true.
That is very true.
#9
C
cdestuck
C
cdestuck
So now that it appears my engine is just a paperweight with out a new engine case and prob a crankshaft, I had to figure out where to go with this. Really looked into engines new engines but sort of just too much. Repower did have a neat kit with a Honda engine and everything for make the conversion but cost was $2080 so I looked elsewhere. I thought if I could find a good used 325, I'd have a mower and my old mower for a parts tractor. So I was able to find a very nice 325 identical to mine on craiglist about 150 miles away so called the owner, worked out a deal nd will go get it next Tuesday.....AFTER do a Trump vote. Tks guys for all the input on this.
#10
M
motoman
M
motoman
If you can do an autopsy yourself it would be good to know wha' happened. Factory left out thrust washers? The experienced can respond, but fading memory of auto part says the washers could have been 1/8th inch (.125") thick each.?? So before slamming effect of the running engine there was a 1/4" space ??
#11
C
cdestuck
I opening it up and checking just what is worn. I figure it has to be the top case and/or a shoulder on the crank. But as to shims or thrust washers, the parts books show none at all.
C
cdestuck
If you can do an autopsy yourself it would be good to know wha' happened. Factory left out thrust washers? The experienced can respond, but fading memory of auto part says the washers could have been 1/8th inch (.125") thick each.?? So before slamming effect of the running engine there was a 1/4" space ??
I opening it up and checking just what is worn. I figure it has to be the top case and/or a shoulder on the crank. But as to shims or thrust washers, the parts books show none at all.
#12
A
arch252
A
arch252
Look at my post right by this one, I had a 17hp air cooled FH500V with up and down play in the crankshaft. Tore it down and found that the crank had worn down the bottom case about 3/8". It had dropped so far the starter could not disengage from the flywheel. I posted pictures of that. I was able to find a good used case for about $30 shipped. Replaced the crankcase gasket and the bottom seal and it ran like a sewing machine. Not sure if this is the problem you are describing but if it is the pictures I posted may be helpful.