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F935 PTO not engaging
#1
P
psween
P
psween
Have an F935 that the PTO won't engage with the switch. The solenoid that retracts the PTO brake band and engages the shaft is free to move, has power going to it when switched, but doesn't engage. If you manually move the solenoid it will engage and keep the PTO running until you shut the switch off, then it disengages as it should, but won't re-engage unless you manually push the solenoid shaft again. Any ideas? It almost acts like one of the safety interlocks is preventing engagement, but power is getting to it, so that shouldn't be the issue. Maybe just a bad solenoid? I'll pull the switch next and see if it's got an intermittent problem, but again, power seems to be getting through. I'm open to any suggestions.
Patrick
P.S. This year obviously has the PTO switch, not the manual lever/magnet combo on some F935s.
Patrick
P.S. This year obviously has the PTO switch, not the manual lever/magnet combo on some F935s.
#2
B
billymagg
Sounds like you are on the right track, my new to me, old F935 has the manual lever/magnet combo, but someone has wired a switch into the system and bypassed the old one. Still I enjoy running the 935, I just wish I could find a 60" deck to replace my 72". We recently purchased a 2 year old Scag, with a 61 inch deck and 30 horse Kawasaki at the campground where I volunteer, so I purchased the 935 to use in the country....
B
billymagg
Have an F935 that the PTO won't engage with the switch. The solenoid that retracts the PTO brake band and engages the shaft is free to move, has power going to it when switched, but doesn't engage. If you manually move the solenoid it will engage and keep the PTO running until you shut the switch off, then it disengages as it should, but won't re-engage unless you manually push the solenoid shaft again. Any ideas? It almost acts like one of the safety interlocks is preventing engagement, but power is getting to it, so that shouldn't be the issue. Maybe just a bad solenoid? I'll pull the switch next and see if it's got an intermittent problem, but again, power seems to be getting through. I'm open to any suggestions.
Patrick
P.S. This year obviously has the PTO switch, not the manual lever/magnet combo on some F935s.
Sounds like you are on the right track, my new to me, old F935 has the manual lever/magnet combo, but someone has wired a switch into the system and bypassed the old one. Still I enjoy running the 935, I just wish I could find a 60" deck to replace my 72". We recently purchased a 2 year old Scag, with a 61 inch deck and 30 horse Kawasaki at the campground where I volunteer, so I purchased the 935 to use in the country....
#3
J
Jus10
I have a 2006 F911 (900+ hours) and just recently experienced a similar thing. The PTO switch will move the solenoid and "open" the clutch brake, but the PTO shaft will not spin. I mowed for about 10-15 minutes and all of a sudden the PTO shaft stopped spinning even though the PTO was still "engaged" and the clutch brake was "open". I can spin the PTO shaft with my hands while the clutch brake is open and closed. Is that normal? I did just add some hydraulic fluid to the reservoir, but I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with it. The seat safety has been bypassed. Thought about the brake doing something funny, but that would disengage the PTO and "close" the clutch brake, right? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance.
J
Jus10
Sounds like you are on the right track, my new to me, old F935 has the manual lever/magnet combo, but someone has wired a switch into the system and bypassed the old one. Still I enjoy running the 935, I just wish I could find a 60" deck to replace my 72". We recently purchased a 2 year old Scag, with a 61 inch deck and 30 horse Kawasaki at the campground where I volunteer, so I purchased the 935 to use in the country....
I have a 2006 F911 (900+ hours) and just recently experienced a similar thing. The PTO switch will move the solenoid and "open" the clutch brake, but the PTO shaft will not spin. I mowed for about 10-15 minutes and all of a sudden the PTO shaft stopped spinning even though the PTO was still "engaged" and the clutch brake was "open". I can spin the PTO shaft with my hands while the clutch brake is open and closed. Is that normal? I did just add some hydraulic fluid to the reservoir, but I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with it. The seat safety has been bypassed. Thought about the brake doing something funny, but that would disengage the PTO and "close" the clutch brake, right? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance.
#4
J
Jus10
J
Jus10
I don't always get 12v at the pto clutch, very rarely. I do get 12v at the plug that goes to the pto switch. So I put a new switch in and I still have the same problem. Made sure it's not an issue from the brakes. Anyone have any ideas? Typo in my previous post, it's a 1996 F911.
#5
B
billymagg
Jus10 how are the belts off the electric clutch, sure that's obvious, but mine did quit in heavy stuff, until I readjusted the belt tension, what would happen if you bypassed the normal circuit and wired the clutch hot??? just as a test, but that could be the problem???
B
billymagg
I don't always get 12v at the pto clutch, very rarely. I do get 12v at the plug that goes to the pto switch. So I put a new switch in and I still have the same problem. Made sure it's not an issue from the brakes. Anyone have any ideas? Typo in my previous post, it's a 1996 F911.
Jus10 how are the belts off the electric clutch, sure that's obvious, but mine did quit in heavy stuff, until I readjusted the belt tension, what would happen if you bypassed the normal circuit and wired the clutch hot??? just as a test, but that could be the problem???
#6
Nwatson99
Nwatson99
Okay let me see if I understand this, your switch is sending the proper current to the solenoid and the brake opens, however the pulley will not engage on the shaft?
#7
Carscw
Carscw
Is the clutch a adjustable one?
( no I did not look up the mower)
Sounds to me like it needs to be adjusted.
( no I did not look up the mower)
Sounds to me like it needs to be adjusted.
#8
Nwatson99
I agree sounds like something is loose or frozen in there not allowing a full connection, one quick test you can do it take it off and hook 12 volt to it, if you see it move and hear a ding then it is releasing and should have engaged.
Might want to just order a pto assembly, replace it, and then tear into the other one and see exactly what is going on while checking everything to the specs called out into the manual. The benefit to this is, if you fix the old one you will always have a spare.
Nwatson99
Is the clutch a adjustable one?
( no I did not look up the mower)
Sounds to me like it needs to be adjusted.
I agree sounds like something is loose or frozen in there not allowing a full connection, one quick test you can do it take it off and hook 12 volt to it, if you see it move and hear a ding then it is releasing and should have engaged.
Might want to just order a pto assembly, replace it, and then tear into the other one and see exactly what is going on while checking everything to the specs called out into the manual. The benefit to this is, if you fix the old one you will always have a spare.
#9
J
Jus10
J
Jus10
Thanks everyone for your responses. I was able to "fix" the problem late Friday night, just haven't been able to get back on here.
Although the solenoid was extending fully (so I thought this wasn't the issue) I pushed on it by hand just to see what would happen. Wouldn't you know it, by moving it about 1/16" of an inch it engaged the PTO. Now, the solenoid didn't move any further, it was the bracket that holds that solenoid. I don't understand the circuit enough (or at all) to know why moving the solenoid bracket just a little bit allowed for voltage to get to the PTO clutch. So, I was going to remove the battery (one of the cables didn't want to come off) and adjust some of the bracket bolts, but instead I have a bungee cord pulling on the bracket. Mowed great on Saturday. Just kicking myself for not trying the OP's solution even though I thought the solenoid was fully extended. Out $75 on a switch I don't need, but I'm cutting grass again. Hopefully this helps someone down the road.
Although the solenoid was extending fully (so I thought this wasn't the issue) I pushed on it by hand just to see what would happen. Wouldn't you know it, by moving it about 1/16" of an inch it engaged the PTO. Now, the solenoid didn't move any further, it was the bracket that holds that solenoid. I don't understand the circuit enough (or at all) to know why moving the solenoid bracket just a little bit allowed for voltage to get to the PTO clutch. So, I was going to remove the battery (one of the cables didn't want to come off) and adjust some of the bracket bolts, but instead I have a bungee cord pulling on the bracket. Mowed great on Saturday. Just kicking myself for not trying the OP's solution even though I thought the solenoid was fully extended. Out $75 on a switch I don't need, but I'm cutting grass again. Hopefully this helps someone down the road.
#10
C
CAEMI
If you're still looking for a 60" deck, I'll trade you mine for your 72" deck.
C
CAEMI
Sounds like you are on the right track, my new to me, old F935 has the manual lever/magnet combo, but someone has wired a switch into the system and bypassed the old one. Still I enjoy running the 935, I just wish I could find a 60" deck to replace my 72". We recently purchased a 2 year old Scag, with a 61 inch deck and 30 horse Kawasaki at the campground where I volunteer, so I purchased the 935 to use in the country....
If you're still looking for a 60" deck, I'll trade you mine for your 72" deck.
#11
B
billymagg
I'd consider that, mine is in excellent condition, had the gearbox rebuilt and replaced the lower gear box pulley this spring, well over 300.00 Still retaining most original paint, some surface rust, but NO rust through or significant deterioration..
I would only be interested if yours is in similar condition. send me a phone and i'll give you a call and then send you some pics if you're interested.
B
billymagg
If you're still looking for a 60" deck, I'll trade you mine for your 72" deck.
I'd consider that, mine is in excellent condition, had the gearbox rebuilt and replaced the lower gear box pulley this spring, well over 300.00 Still retaining most original paint, some surface rust, but NO rust through or significant deterioration..
I would only be interested if yours is in similar condition. send me a phone and i'll give you a call and then send you some pics if you're interested.
#12
BlazNT
BlazNT
All the parts interchange from the 60 to 72" deck. So you can keep and things you want in the trade and just reinstall them on the deck you trade for.
#13
BlazNT
BlazNT
Ok since this is reopened I have the answer for this. It is hard to explain but I will try. Starting at the PTO engagement switch next to the seat. Flip that switch and it turns on the solenoid under the seat that moves a lever that pushes a switch that sends power to the PTO. If the solenoid is moving and the PTO is not coming on then adjust the rod coming out of the solenoid to the lever till it makes full contact with the switch. This is the stupidist design I have ever seen. I personally removed the solenoid and wired in a new togel switch to the PTO wiring. Very simple to do. The switch I used is a 6 wire switch wit an on-off-on. The wiring for the PTO is 4 wires and needs an normally open/ normally closed toggle switch.
#14
J
Jus10
Ok, this is just odd...After running fine for nearly 2 years using the bungee cord described earlier, my pto will not engage again as of 6/17/16. It was running fine for at least an hour and then I decided to stop and get a beer with about 30 mins. left. Got back on and the pto decided not to engage. The solenoid moved but I guess it was back to not making full contact with the switch. I then pushed the solenoid a bit and it engaged for a little while and then went out on me. Now, no matter how much I push, the pto will not engage. And then you post this Saturday morning. I guess I'll look at adjusting the solenoid rod. Any tips for doing that? Also, any more info on the switch you used to bypass the solenoid would be greatly appreciated. Again, this is for a 1996 F911.
Thanks!!
J
Jus10
Ok since this is reopened I have the answer for this. It is hard to explain but I will try. Starting at the PTO engagement switch next to the seat. Flip that switch and it turns on the solenoid under the seat that moves a lever that pushes a switch that sends power to the PTO. If the solenoid is moving and the PTO is not coming on then adjust the rod coming out of the solenoid to the lever till it makes full contact with the switch. This is the stupidist design I have ever seen. I personally removed the solenoid and wired in a new togel switch to the PTO wiring. Very simple to do. The switch I used is a 6 wire switch wit an on-off-on. The wiring for the PTO is 4 wires and needs an normally open/ normally closed toggle switch.
Ok, this is just odd...After running fine for nearly 2 years using the bungee cord described earlier, my pto will not engage again as of 6/17/16. It was running fine for at least an hour and then I decided to stop and get a beer with about 30 mins. left. Got back on and the pto decided not to engage. The solenoid moved but I guess it was back to not making full contact with the switch. I then pushed the solenoid a bit and it engaged for a little while and then went out on me. Now, no matter how much I push, the pto will not engage. And then you post this Saturday morning. I guess I'll look at adjusting the solenoid rod. Any tips for doing that? Also, any more info on the switch you used to bypass the solenoid would be greatly appreciated. Again, this is for a 1996 F911.
Thanks!!
#15
BlazNT
BlazNT
First I said the wrong thing about the switch. It is an On/On switch. So it is basically 2 switches in one. I only use the 4 outer poles. Normally open and normally closed. Flip the switch and it becomes normally closed and normally open.Her is the switch I al using.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151844063518
I can take a picture of the switch under the solenoid when I get home to so you its position. The switch is no longer there but I can mark it for you. You can also test the pto by manually pushing the button to see if pto comes on.
WARNING WARNING WARNING. THE MOWER DECK WILL TURN ON AND SPIN THE BLADES IF YOU PUSH THAT BUTTON WITH THE SEAT SWITCH DISCONNECTED OR BYPASSED. DO NOT DO IF YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO STAY AWAY FROM YOUR MOWER DECK. WARNING WARNING WARNING
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151844063518
I can take a picture of the switch under the solenoid when I get home to so you its position. The switch is no longer there but I can mark it for you. You can also test the pto by manually pushing the button to see if pto comes on.
WARNING WARNING WARNING. THE MOWER DECK WILL TURN ON AND SPIN THE BLADES IF YOU PUSH THAT BUTTON WITH THE SEAT SWITCH DISCONNECTED OR BYPASSED. DO NOT DO IF YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO STAY AWAY FROM YOUR MOWER DECK. WARNING WARNING WARNING
#16
J
Jus10
So, I went home during lunch and tried to extend the solenoid. You can see on the picture (hopefully) how far the nut moved. Now that I'm looking at it, I think I actually shortened it. I also removed the plug with the 6 wires. Should see it removed in the 2nd picture. When I did that, the mower will not turn over/start. I plugged it back in and it still won't turn over. So, I need to figure out what's going on with that too.
I now understand what button you were referring to. It's underneath that switch I pulled out.
Thanks for your help
J
Jus10
First I said the wrong thing about the switch. It is an On/On switch. So it is basically 2 switches in one. I only use the 4 outer poles. Normally open and normally closed. Flip the switch and it becomes normally closed and normally open.Her is the switch I al using.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151844063518
I can take a picture of the switch under the solenoid when I get home to so you its position. The switch is no longer there but I can mark it for you. You can also test the pto by manually pushing the button to see if pto comes on.
WARNING WARNING WARNING. THE MOWER DECK WILL TURN ON AND SPIN THE BLADES IF YOU PUSH THAT BUTTON WITH THE SEAT SWITCH DISCONNECTED OR BYPASSED. DO NOT DO IF YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO STAY AWAY FROM YOUR MOWER DECK. WARNING WARNING WARNING
So, I went home during lunch and tried to extend the solenoid. You can see on the picture (hopefully) how far the nut moved. Now that I'm looking at it, I think I actually shortened it. I also removed the plug with the 6 wires. Should see it removed in the 2nd picture. When I did that, the mower will not turn over/start. I plugged it back in and it still won't turn over. So, I need to figure out what's going on with that too.
I now understand what button you were referring to. It's underneath that switch I pulled out.
Thanks for your help
Attachments
#17
BlazNT
BlazNT
My switch goes directly into the wiring harness you unplugged. I would bet that switch is bad and why it wont start. With an electrical tester check the switch for continuity. One set will have none and the other will have it. When you press the button it will flip flop. If it does not then the switch is bad. That is a cheep switch to replace for john deere standards.
Shortening it should be what is needed to make contact.
Shortening it should be what is needed to make contact.
#18
J
Jus10
J
Jus10
BlazNT, I can't tell you thanks enough! I took the switch (AM128925) off and checked for continuity like you said. Sure enough, both sets were open. Bought a new one, $13, tested it and it worked as you explained. Back to mowing and don't need that bungee cord anymore.
Thanks again,
Justin
Thanks again,
Justin
#19
J
Jus10
J
Jus10
Well...that switch just went bad on me again. Replaced it and mowed for a little bit, shut the mower off and now the new switch is bad. Anybody have any ideas what could be going on with this? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
#20
BlazNT
BlazNT
You could have a bad PTO. Check it for ground and power.