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My brother and I went to the lawn and garden show today and were looking at an Elec.ZTR made by Hustler.called a ZEON.The price was around $5,000.00.Cuts for about 90min. which is about an acre.has a welded steel deck and tube frame,no belts,filters,fluids etc. no noise,the guy turned it on and moved it,no noise what so ever. dual elec.transmissions for true zero-degree turning and each spindel was run by an elec. motor. the batteries are warranted for 4yr. residential and 2yr. Commercial both pro rated.although it's not something I want my brother really liked it. the salesman said they coming out with another model with a differant battery concept in the near future. russ

173 ABN


Then how long does it take to recharge those battery iif you didn't get all done mowing and the battery was dead? At what speed will you be mowing at ? Does it work that the faster you go the shorter the charge of the battery? I think the no noise would be very nice and no maintance to , just sharpen the blades is about it.:tongue:

This is going on the second year, and the price is dropping on these made in Kansas mowers...
YouTube - Hustler Zeon - World's First Electric Zero-Turn Mower
:smile:KennyV

I'm guessing that would take a lot of time to be popular and/or replace the gas/oil mowers for the homeowners. but short run time for the lawn care businesses.

Because it's a Hustler, I think it must be pretty good, but It takes me more than 80 minutes to mow my yard so that's out! Seems this electronic craze is going really far; maybe in a few decades from now the internal combustion engine won't be used much anymore. I guess all we can do is wait and see! I'm surprised that this Hustler is'nt more expensive, but there's still that battery problem-it would probably cost half the original price of the mower to replace the battery after a few years of use!

What everyone needs to do (cars, mowers, ect.) is all get together and work on making a new longer lasting battery. This "electric craze" isn't going much farther until new batteries are invented. A little disc type watch battery will last 5 years in a watch. Use that same technogoly and expand it.

noma,don't know about the speed vs. usage rate but the salesman said it needed an overnight charge but just now looking at the book , one of the options is a quick charger.Like I said before the salesman said that Hustler is coming out with some kind of new batt. concept.It's not for me but those with small lawns it might be worth looking into.Kenny ,I think it's kinda neet it's made in Hesston,Ks.,Grasshopper is made in Moundridge.The guy said he's sold a number of them so maybe other companies will take notice and start developing their own models and the batteries will be improved. russ

Wayne195 said:

Because it's a Hustler, I think it must be pretty good,
but there's still that battery problem-it would probably cost half the original price of the mower to replace the battery after a few years of use!

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Regular Deep Cycle lead acid battery, I have always got around 4 to 5 years from them and they are NOT very expensive... These are regular batterys... not the 600 volt battery packs that you find in hybrid cars...

173abn said:

those with small lawns it might be worth looking into...
...maybe other companies will take notice and start developing their own models and the batteries will be improved. russ

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This will easily mow a one acre lawn, most are a bit smaller than an acre...
Back in the 80's I had a pair of electric riders made by John Deere, The Electric 90... They were great rider mowers, they were more expensive than gasoline mowers so at that time there was a very limited interest in electric rider mowers... gasoline was less than a dollar a gallon.

indypower said:

What everyone needs to do (cars, mowers, ect.) is all get together and work on making a new longer lasting battery. This "electric craze" isn't going much farther until new batteries are invented. A little disc type watch battery will last 5 years in a watch. Use that same technogoly and expand it.

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There are some high energy batterys made today, the lead acid is still a very good choice where you need a lot of energy storage, good life span, a recyclable element and the weight of lead is an advantage... like a mower tractor... :smile:KennyV

KennyV said:

Regular Deep Cycle lead acid battery, I have always got around 4 to 5 years from them and they are NOT very expensive... These are regular batterys... not the 600 volt battery packs that you find in hybrid cars...:smile:KennyV

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The lifespan of a deep cycle lead acid battery will vary considerably with how it is used, how it is maintained and charged, temperature, and other factors. It can vary to extremes, I have seen deep cycle battery's killed in less than a year by overcharging. Even the so-called "dry charged" (where you add acid when you need them) have a shelf life of 18 months at most. They are not totally dry - they are actually filled with acid, the plates formed and charged, then the acid is dumped out.
There are so many variables, such as depth of discharge, maintenance, temperature, how often and how deep cycled, etc. that it is impossible to know how long they will last.
I've used deep cycle Batteries for twenty plus years with trolling motors with a single 33 amp motor and have never gone more than about 14 months on a battery without replacing it and I can tell you depending on the battery you purchase they can run from $120 each to $262 for the Optima 12V so to say they are NOT very expensive...you must have lots of money :smile: they (Batteries) are not cheap and using that Zeon isn't going to be as cheap as everyone thinks.

Ric said:

The lifespan of a deep cycle lead acid battery will vary considerably with how it is used, ... I have seen deep cycle battery's killed in less than a year...
...and using that Zeon isn't going to be as cheap as everyone thinks.

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I think the lifespan of a hammer will also vary considerably with how it is used... I really fail to see the significance of how that applies...

I have seen gasoline engines killed in less than 5 minutes, I don;t see how that would apply ether, because I have also used the a gas engine on a mower for over 30 years & I have used deep cycle batteries on my John Deere Electric 90's for 4 to 5 years, always. I'm sure someone could destroy them in less time... I can still buy premium deep cycle lead acid for less than $110 each, (and I only get serviceable wet cell)...

As to the cost of operation, I have not yet checked to see what "everyone thinks"... I can only go by what I know fuel and oil sells for, what different types of mowing equipment sells for, and what electricity costs... I can form a good notion what costs are, I can also go to the manufactures site and look at :
Zeon
You will note this comparison is with similar size mowers, both mowing 40 hrs per year.

I can see there will be a lot of folks that have an acre or less of lawn to mow, will be looking at these for a very affordable and QUIET means to do it... :smile:KennyV

KennyV said:

As to the cost of operation, I have not yet checked to see what "everyone thinks"... I can only go by what I know fuel and oil sells for, what different types of mowing equipment sells for, and what electricity costs... I can form a good notion what costs are, I can also go to the manufactures site and look at :
Zeon
You will note this comparison is with similar size mowers, both mowing 40 hrs per year.

I can see there will be a lot of folks that have an acre or less of lawn to mow, will be looking at these for a very affordable and QUIET means to do it... :smile:KennyV

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As far as the Batteries go I"ll stay with what I said, there are to many variables, such as depth of discharge, maintenance, temperature, how often and how deep cycled, etc. that it is impossible to know how long they will last. Most Deep Cycle Batteries only have a 12 month manufacturers warranty.

As to the cost of operation and using there own figures with gas at $3.75 a gal which it's know where near that, and a comparison is with similar size mowers over there 10 year period. The Zeon 42" and I quote the price I was given at the dealer cost $5999 and over a 10yr. period it cost $1050 Total $7049 to own and operate. My Cub Cadet 44" with a 20hp motor cost $3199 and over a 10yr. period cost $2699 Total $5898 to own and operate and according to there figures my cub is already 10 yrs. old and runs great and I mow what I want, when I want regardless of conditions, can they say the same of the Zeon.


Personally I think there figures (Hustlers) are way bias and blown way out of proportion. I guess they buy there gas the same place they buy there batteries. :laughing:

Ric said:

Personally I think there figures (Hustlers) are way bias and blown way out of proportion.

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"blown way out of proportion", like their air and oil filters at 70 cents each, 3 changes at $2.10...
"gas at $3.75 a gal which it's know where near that" Just checked the National average price for reg unlead is $3.18 and rising, their figure is off 57 cents today.

If you are trying to compare your Cub Cadette to any Hustler I see why you do not understand. The only comparison that you can 'fairly' make including the cost of the machine, will be to compare a similar built mower. (It will not be any of the CC you currently own).

You still have not looked at this mower, (thats right I remember you saying , you didn't have to, and was not going to...). and you are obviously not able to negotiate a better price...
Your loss, but like I had said before this will be a great ZTR for a lot of those that want a quality built quiet and economical, care free mower. (Not a good match for you).

As to your experience with batteries, I don't have any idea how you are able to ruin them, but I do believe you when you say you are able to do it. :smile:KennyV

the price tag on the machine I looked at was $4999.00 russ

173abn said:

the price tag on the machine I looked at was $4999.00 russ

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The $5999 price I received was from a Hustler dealer about three months ago, he also quoted me a $500 price for the quick charger.

wow! the salesman I talked to said the quick charger was incl. with the price of the mower. russ

173abn said:

wow! the salesman I talked to said the quick charger was incl. with the price of the mower. russ

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The salesman told me it came with a charger but if I wanted the quick charger it was an additional cost of $500. He also said that he could order the mower and charger and have them in a week or two because he didn't have it and didn't stock the thing anymore because they never sold the one they had on the floor and they ended up giving it to another dealer. ( His words Not mine)

KennyV said:

"blown way out of proportion", like their air and oil filters at 70 cents each, 3 changes at $2.10...
"gas at $3.75 a gal which it's know where near that" Just checked the National average price for reg unlead is $3.18 and rising, their figure is off 57 cents today.

If you are trying to compare your Cub Cadette to any Hustler I see why you do not understand. The only comparison that you can 'fairly' make including the cost of the machine, will be to compare a similar built mower. (It will not be any of the CC you currently own).

You still have not looked at this mower, (thats right I remember you saying , you didn't have to, and was not going to...). and you are obviously not able to negotiate a better price...
Your loss, but like I had said before this will be a great ZTR for a lot of those that want a quality built quiet and economical, care free mower. (Not a good match for you).

As to your experience with batteries, I don't have any idea how you are able to ruin them, but I do believe you when you say you are able to do it. :smile:KennyV

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Kenny, Quote your words You will note this comparison is with similar size mowers, both mowing 40 hrs per year. and that was the comparison I made and I think I've proven the point.
Yes the gas price they used was "blown way out of proportion", considering the time that page was made gas was probably less than $3.00 a gallon and their air and oil filters at 70 cents each, 3 changes at $2.10 if you figure their cost for three times over that ten year time frame you'll find they're figures are probably about right.
As far as my equipment goes, any mower that can mow 66 lawns per week, 264 a month 10 months a year for 3 years and only replace 2 belts in my book I would have consider to be an excellent mower and as far as I'm concerned one of the best on the market today.
Kenny I know you don't particularly like me and the feeling is mutual, I also know you like to degrade my equipment ( Cub Cadet ) and that's fine be my guest but if you insist on doing that at least Note the spelling in parenthesis and try to get it right next time.

As to my experience with batteries, I have never ruined a battery in my life. If you would have asked how I went through a battery every 12 months instead of trying to degrade me as an Individual I could have told you I owed a 18 ft. Hydro Sport Bass Boat and lived on the largest chain of lakes in the state of Florida, needless to say I fished and charged batteries daily and when you do that to a deep cell battery they tend to get used up rather quickly.

Ric said:

Kenny, Quote your words You will note this comparison is with similar size mowers, both mowing 40 hrs per year. and that was the comparison I made and I think I've proven the point.

Yes the gas price they used was "blown way out of proportion", considering the time that page was made gas was probably less than $3.00 a gallon and their air and oil filters at 70 cents each, 3 changes at $2.10 if you figure their cost for three times over that ten year time frame you'll find they're figures are probably about right.



Kenny I know you don't particularly like me and the feeling is mutual, I also know you like to degrade my equipment ( Cub Cadet ) and that's fine be my guest but if you insist on doing that at least Note the spelling in parenthesis and try to get it right next time.

As to my experience with batteries, I have never ruined a battery in my life. If you would have asked how I went through a battery every 12 months instead of trying to degrade me as an Individual I could have told you I owed a 18 ft. Hydro Sport Bass Boat and lived on the largest chain of lakes in the state of Florida, needless to say I fished and charged batteries daily and when you do that to a deep cell battery they tend to get used up rather quickly.

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Ric..
The comparison is with like size mowers... But YOU injected the initial price, as if your comparison was equal in quality (same size same deck, BIG difference in total machine build quality)...

Fuel price is NOT out of line, you check the high & low fuel prices and then average them... The real thing to compare is gas to electricity...
70 cent filters?? Really?

Ric ... If i disliked you, I would never respond to your statements. Some of which I figured were just you choosing to be the antagonist. like Your rationale, as to electric power vs gasoline power.
As to "degrade my equipment ( Cub Cadet )"... I remember,last year, it was YOU that had such a fit about your 'dealer purchased' CC was better/worse than the 'Box Store' model CC... To that I responded, If it was the same model # it is going to be the same, regardless of where it was purchased!
I own a Cub Cadet 1450, I have had it since mid 1970's, still runs and works fine, has thousands of hours on it... it is a very well made machine, I would not compare it to todays CC ... but then again I would never compare it to an electric rider either...

Your also the one that stated you don't get but a year from deep cycle batteries... Like I said, I have no idea how you can consistently destroy batteries in a short period of time... but I do believe you when you say you can do it.
I think you could stand a break from all that work, 66 lawns per week, 264 a month 10 months a year...:laughing: your a funny guy...
Take an afternoon off and spool down. Go out and play some golf, while you are out there take note how many carts are electric vs gasoline... there is a reason the majority are electric... and my experience has been they will go WAY beyond 18 holes on a charge plus keep doing it on the same batteries for years...

If you don't want to get too far away from other people actually working... go to a industrial site where they are using scissor lifts... most will be electric, and will have lots of deep cycle batteries on them... Ive had great experience with that application also...

Getting back to the original post "Electric ZTR", you jumped in with "using that Zeon isn't going to be as cheap as everyone thinks." Then YOU proceeded to run down deep cycle batteries... You could still benefit from actually going out to look & try out a Zeon, get TODAYS actual price (not Manufacturer's Suggested List Price), again do YOU pay MSLP for equipment?? If so, are you really in business? Even if you do pay MSLP use the actual current $#, if your going to try to make it sound negative...

This is getting to be rather long, and perhaps boring but then what can I say... I'm typing as slow as possible ... :smile:KennyV

Kenny,you bring up a good point.Way back when I was 13yrs old I was cadding for my money.I remember all the golf carts were elec. powered.They could go 18 holes with ease,it usually took 4 hrs to caddy 18holes but that was walking but there were those in my groups that used the carts.Don't know what kinda batts. they used but they seemed to work well.I read both yours and Ric's comments all the time because I believe you both to have good knowledge about the subject at hand.I hope I didn't start some bad blood between you two by starting this thread. russ

173abn said:

Kenny,you bring up a good point.Way back when I was 13yrs old I was cadding for my money.I remember all the golf carts were elec. powered.They could go 18 holes with ease,it usually took 4 hrs to caddy 18holes but that was walking but there were those in my groups that used the carts.Don't know what kinda batts. they used but they seemed to work well.I read both yours and Ric's comments all the time because I believe you both to have good knowledge about the subject at hand.I hope I didn't start some bad blood between you two by starting this thread. russ

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Hey russ...
Golf is most likely the proving field for batteries ... carts are almost all 36volt 6 - 6volt deep cycle and from the ones I've seen usually Trojan brand, they go almost forever. 5 years is never a problem with Trojan, and 36 holes is nothing for the charge... now for me 36 holes does not happen that often...

As for Ric, up till this last "I know you don't particularly like me and the feeling is mutual" comment, I didn't realize he felt that way... I do recall he got all bunched up the last go round about the Zeon... BUT I thought it was because he might have been unfamiliar with the Hustler name... they are not in the low end market, and there are a LOT of people that are not aware of the quality that is in their product...
I know if he was to look at them, he should be able to see how well they are built...

I myself will cling to a hopeless opinion in spite of facts to the contrary, but I'll eventually have to look at something new, just to see there are "better mouse traps" being built...

Ric has been negative about electric mowers for a while... I don't know, he may be the last to see the practical application & benefit of electricity... fuel prices may force a lot of us to consider electricity where it was not seriously considered before... I see Volvo and MB are making a Diesel hybrid... the RailRoad has been doing that for around 60 years... :smile:KennyV

would'nt that be great,a diesel/elec. mower! russ

173abn said:

would'nt that be great,a diesel/elec. mower! russ

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That is perfection in efficiencyy....:smile: :smile:KennyV

Back in the early 70's GE made a electric mower comparable to the 14 H.P. class of a Bolens that was quite a good mower for its time. It was called the "Electrac it carried a good number of led acid batteries and had good power as well as staying power for the job. It was way ahead of its time and us gear heads could not enjoy something that didn't make noise and smell of gas fumes. :laughing: