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Echo warranty Question
#1
upupandaway
upupandaway
I have a echo shc-225 where the cutter shattered. It broke inside the gearbox. the broken part then broke the gearbox.
Being home use, it is still "under warranty" about 4 years old. I use quotes because the dealer told me odds are echo will give some lame excuse and not cover it. calling echo, they said similar. Echo hinted they wouldn't cover it and gave some more lame excuses.
Being I don't repair for a living, any echo person out there that could file the warranty claim for me and actually get them to send me parts?
I only use it occasionally for tall bushes and I didn't cut wires with it- the teeth are perfect shape so the cutter just broke.
TIA
Being home use, it is still "under warranty" about 4 years old. I use quotes because the dealer told me odds are echo will give some lame excuse and not cover it. calling echo, they said similar. Echo hinted they wouldn't cover it and gave some more lame excuses.
Being I don't repair for a living, any echo person out there that could file the warranty claim for me and actually get them to send me parts?
I only use it occasionally for tall bushes and I didn't cut wires with it- the teeth are perfect shape so the cutter just broke.
TIA
#2
S
SeniorCitizen
S
SeniorCitizen
I cannot solve your problem and all I can say is " don't feel alone " because in general warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on and that paper may as well been made into toilet tissue.
The dealers are usually the first to be contacted and frequently look down on a person like, let's see what we can find that you may have done wrong. And in some instances, if he can get the customer to pay he can then turn the work in as warranty work and receives payment again. I have dubbed it Double Dipping.
I wish you all the luck in the world because you'll probably need it, plus some.
The dealers are usually the first to be contacted and frequently look down on a person like, let's see what we can find that you may have done wrong. And in some instances, if he can get the customer to pay he can then turn the work in as warranty work and receives payment again. I have dubbed it Double Dipping.
I wish you all the luck in the world because you'll probably need it, plus some.
#3
upupandaway
upupandaway
Thanks. so the going theme is not just local. I can weld the case and get a new blade for a little more than what the shop wants as a deposit. Hell, if they don't honor claims, echo should change the label to 50 year warranty good marketing and it wont cost them anything. Thank God car companies don't work like Echo.
#4
I
ILENGINE
I suspect the reasoning behind the warranty issues, is the cutter would be considered a consumable item, or normal wear item. So a normal wear item failed causing damage to another component. In that cause the damaged component wouldn't be covered.
And to Citizen, If that is how you thing dealers think of customers when it comes to warranty to are way off base. It may seem like that on the surface, but in reality most of that comes from the dealer doing a warranty claim and then not getting paid because the manufacturer denied the claim. And if you think dealers are making a habit of double dipping, there are dealers that may try it but are caught by the manufacturer, and loose their dealerships, and in some cases have it turned over to the proper people for prosecution. Is a $50 claim worth 5 years in prison.
Here is a good example of dealers getting the blame for not doing warranty. I have a company that I do warranty work for that on their trimmer exclude as normal wears parts on their trimmers, bump heads, bump knobs, inner spools, outer spools, starter ropes, starter handles, and starter pulleys.
And if I remember correctly that Echo 5 year warranty is pro=rated.
I
ILENGINE
Thanks. so the going theme is not just local. I can weld the case and get a new blade for a little more than what the shop wants as a deposit. Hell, if they don't honor claims, echo should change the label to 50 year warranty good marketing and it wont cost them anything. Thank God car companies don't work like Echo.
I suspect the reasoning behind the warranty issues, is the cutter would be considered a consumable item, or normal wear item. So a normal wear item failed causing damage to another component. In that cause the damaged component wouldn't be covered.
And to Citizen, If that is how you thing dealers think of customers when it comes to warranty to are way off base. It may seem like that on the surface, but in reality most of that comes from the dealer doing a warranty claim and then not getting paid because the manufacturer denied the claim. And if you think dealers are making a habit of double dipping, there are dealers that may try it but are caught by the manufacturer, and loose their dealerships, and in some cases have it turned over to the proper people for prosecution. Is a $50 claim worth 5 years in prison.
Here is a good example of dealers getting the blame for not doing warranty. I have a company that I do warranty work for that on their trimmer exclude as normal wears parts on their trimmers, bump heads, bump knobs, inner spools, outer spools, starter ropes, starter handles, and starter pulleys.
And if I remember correctly that Echo 5 year warranty is pro=rated.
#5
upupandaway
Ilengine, lets do this- ill video the parts and damage and show u the non abuse. u file this with echo and if they accept, u get the labor $$ and just send me the parts.
upupandaway
Ilengine, So far 2 local dealers and echo help desk take the same position as Senior. I already took apart the gear box and brought the 2 broken parts to the dealer so they saw the damage and this was their first reaction. The teeth are undamaged. the pinion shows no wear like a groove on the pinion from lack of lube, surfaces don't show wear grooves. = not abused and the dealer saw it yet they warned me so I didn't start the fan dance.Echo 5 year warranty is pro=rated.....
Ilengine, lets do this- ill video the parts and damage and show u the non abuse. u file this with echo and if they accept, u get the labor $$ and just send me the parts.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
The warranty covers defects in materials quality and assembly workmanship.
If the cutter shattered the very first time it was used they would ask for the cutter and test that it was not faulty.
However if the cutter has worked fine for 4 years it was obviously not faulty.
The subsequent damage to the gear box is consequencial to the blade breaking and caused by the shattering of the blade not by a defect in the designs, materials or workmanship.
Blades are not covered because they are a consummable item same as tyres on your car , fan belts, timing belts ( chains are for some reason ) etc etc etc.
I do have some trimmers that like yours came in with lumps missing from the blade and in every case the blade already had sufficient damage to have required changing quite some time ago.
They were bent, blunt, had teeth missing , badly rusted or any combination of the preceeding.
No one ever bothers to clean & oil their trimmer blades after use & sharpen the teeth, or I am yet to see one come in like this.
As for warranty work, I am not qualified to do warranty work on Kohler & Kawakasi although neither will allow me to open a wholesale account with them.
I have done several warranty jobs and am yet to be paid for any of them - because they pay to your wholesale account, which I can not have because I don't have a retail presence.
The local workshops all have outstanding warranty claims in that they tell me they will never be paid for.
Even when you do get paid the rate applied to each job is the time it takes a factory trained technician to do the job in the factory workshop on a brand new clean unit taken off the line.
It takes longer to clean most items before you can start work on them than the total paid hours in most cases so the labour involved is done for free in most cases and the only actual recompence is the credit for the "offical" parts used so if you need to replace a screw or clip or any other part that is not on the parts list for that job again it comes out of the dealers pocket.
If that is what you really believe kindly buy all your garden equipment from Walmart and throw them away when they stop working.
And note yea well, I AM NOT A DEALER I AM A REPAIR ONLY WORKSHOP.
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks. so the going theme is not just local. I can weld the case and get a new blade for a little more than what the shop wants as a deposit. Hell, if they don't honor claims, echo should change the label to 50 year warranty good marketing and it wont cost them anything. Thank God car companies don't work like Echo.
The warranty covers defects in materials quality and assembly workmanship.
If the cutter shattered the very first time it was used they would ask for the cutter and test that it was not faulty.
However if the cutter has worked fine for 4 years it was obviously not faulty.
The subsequent damage to the gear box is consequencial to the blade breaking and caused by the shattering of the blade not by a defect in the designs, materials or workmanship.
Blades are not covered because they are a consummable item same as tyres on your car , fan belts, timing belts ( chains are for some reason ) etc etc etc.
I do have some trimmers that like yours came in with lumps missing from the blade and in every case the blade already had sufficient damage to have required changing quite some time ago.
They were bent, blunt, had teeth missing , badly rusted or any combination of the preceeding.
No one ever bothers to clean & oil their trimmer blades after use & sharpen the teeth, or I am yet to see one come in like this.
As for warranty work, I am not qualified to do warranty work on Kohler & Kawakasi although neither will allow me to open a wholesale account with them.
I have done several warranty jobs and am yet to be paid for any of them - because they pay to your wholesale account, which I can not have because I don't have a retail presence.
The local workshops all have outstanding warranty claims in that they tell me they will never be paid for.
Even when you do get paid the rate applied to each job is the time it takes a factory trained technician to do the job in the factory workshop on a brand new clean unit taken off the line.
It takes longer to clean most items before you can start work on them than the total paid hours in most cases so the labour involved is done for free in most cases and the only actual recompence is the credit for the "offical" parts used so if you need to replace a screw or clip or any other part that is not on the parts list for that job again it comes out of the dealers pocket.
If that is what you really believe kindly buy all your garden equipment from Walmart and throw them away when they stop working.
And note yea well, I AM NOT A DEALER I AM A REPAIR ONLY WORKSHOP.
#7
I
ILENGINE
I don't do Echo, and the prorated was from a prior warranty guideline, the one they are using after 2007 doesn't list prorating. Like Bert said, the cutter is considered a wear item. If that item breaks, and causes other damage, the other damaged parts are also not covered under the warranty, even if that part would be covered under normal guidelines.
After 4 years the gear head breaking would be suspicious even if the cutter hadn't broke. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong, or abused the unit. But when the warranty is filed, The manufacturer may recall the parts. If they deny the claim, the dealer is out their parts purchased, the labor, and the freight to send the parts back to the company, So dealers have to be vigilant about warranty sometimes.
I actually had cases where the bearings in the gear head overheated on a new less than 30 day old trimmer, and the resulting heat would melt the outer trimmer head. The gear head got covered under warranty but they refused to pay for the outer trimmer head, because the outer part is considered a wear item even though a covered item caused the damage. Or had customers call me up about the bump knob breaking or melting on their less than 48 hour old trimmer and had to inform the customer that the part on their 2 day old trimmer isn't covered. Or have batteries in riders fail on day 31 that had a 30 day warranty, and get refused because they wouldn't touch it one day out of warranty.
I
ILENGINE
Ilengine, So far 2 local dealers and echo help desk take the same position as Senior. I already took apart the gear box and brought the 2 broken parts to the dealer so they saw the damage and this was their first reaction. The teeth are undamaged. the pinion shows no wear like a groove on the pinion from lack of lube, surfaces don't show wear grooves. = not abused and the dealer saw it yet they warned me so I didn't start the fan dance.
Ilengine, lets do this- ill video the parts and damage and show u the non abuse. u file this with echo and if they accept, u get the labor $$ and just send me the parts.
I don't do Echo, and the prorated was from a prior warranty guideline, the one they are using after 2007 doesn't list prorating. Like Bert said, the cutter is considered a wear item. If that item breaks, and causes other damage, the other damaged parts are also not covered under the warranty, even if that part would be covered under normal guidelines.
After 4 years the gear head breaking would be suspicious even if the cutter hadn't broke. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong, or abused the unit. But when the warranty is filed, The manufacturer may recall the parts. If they deny the claim, the dealer is out their parts purchased, the labor, and the freight to send the parts back to the company, So dealers have to be vigilant about warranty sometimes.
I actually had cases where the bearings in the gear head overheated on a new less than 30 day old trimmer, and the resulting heat would melt the outer trimmer head. The gear head got covered under warranty but they refused to pay for the outer trimmer head, because the outer part is considered a wear item even though a covered item caused the damage. Or had customers call me up about the bump knob breaking or melting on their less than 48 hour old trimmer and had to inform the customer that the part on their 2 day old trimmer isn't covered. Or have batteries in riders fail on day 31 that had a 30 day warranty, and get refused because they wouldn't touch it one day out of warranty.
#8
upupandaway
upupandaway
Well here is my rant. The echo excuse is pretty lame but hey, they have the lawyers and it would cost me an arm and a leg to get them to live up to their responsibility but that's how it goes.
"The warranty covers defects in materials quality and assembly workmanship.
If the cutter shattered the very first time it was used they would ask for the cutter and test that it was not faulty. However if the cutter has worked fine for 4 years it was obviously not faulty."
But hey, what do I know. I only worked on automobile and aircraft engines and found parts that have microscopic cracks with obvious results over time. So Yeah echo wont have this like with my tool. They use magic metals that cant develop fractures. After all im not supposed to actually cut branches with this - only watch it reciprocate but that might also give them an excuse. /s
"Blades are not covered because they are a consumable"
So by this logic if my truck rim breaks, being it holds the tire, it is a consumable item?? Mine broke inside the gear box not the cutting teeth which is the consumable area.
If that is what you really believe kindly buy all your garden equipment from Walmart and throw them away when they stop working.
This warranty is one reason why I bought it. Now I know, don't consider echo for its warranty. Like I said, if this is their stratagy, then they should make it 50 years. even more people would fall for it.
"The warranty covers defects in materials quality and assembly workmanship.
If the cutter shattered the very first time it was used they would ask for the cutter and test that it was not faulty. However if the cutter has worked fine for 4 years it was obviously not faulty."
But hey, what do I know. I only worked on automobile and aircraft engines and found parts that have microscopic cracks with obvious results over time. So Yeah echo wont have this like with my tool. They use magic metals that cant develop fractures. After all im not supposed to actually cut branches with this - only watch it reciprocate but that might also give them an excuse. /s
"Blades are not covered because they are a consumable"
So by this logic if my truck rim breaks, being it holds the tire, it is a consumable item?? Mine broke inside the gear box not the cutting teeth which is the consumable area.
If that is what you really believe kindly buy all your garden equipment from Walmart and throw them away when they stop working.
This warranty is one reason why I bought it. Now I know, don't consider echo for its warranty. Like I said, if this is their stratagy, then they should make it 50 years. even more people would fall for it.
#9
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
And I started my professional working life as a metallurgist.
One of the odd bits did was forensic Metallurgy for the police Well I did the sample preperation and took the photos to be honest the reposrts were done by a much more experienced person than I
The idea of an unanounced catastrophic failure in a domestic tool is a fantasy.
The metals are not under that much stress ( WHEN USED ACCORDING TO THE INSTRUCTIONS ) and nothing on then are at the very edge of the materials capacity unlike in aircraft where weight is at a premium.
As a small engine workshop I see equipment an a daily basis that has "just suddenly failed " which had parts that should have been replaced 2 seasons ago.
Men are by far the worst , chain saw teeth that are so blunt they are rounded and they can not understand why the pulley has shattered or the crankshaft is bent.
Right now I am rebuilding the deck from a time cutter that "Suddenly stopped cutting ".
Both blades had the flutes broken off & were split on the edges making them grossly out of balance and setting up sufficient vibrations to start both deck hangers cracking, also pound all of the balls into the races so every bearing was stuffed and the vibrations were finally that bad that a spindle pulley had finally separated from the boss and was spinning freely on the shaft and had been running like this for long enough for the pulley to wear totally through the retaining nut and 1/2 way through the spindle shaft.
This is fairly typical of a "sudden failure" due to bad materials and of course had nothing to do with operator error.
This man had bought extended warranty and he wants me to make a warranty claim as the mower is only 2 years old and his rants are almost exactly the same as yours and feels he has been really hard done by.
A 1 minute inspection or 2 minutes of cleaning would have saved him the $ 845 deck repair, but in his mind it is all Toro's fault.
You were correct in one aspect though, your reply was a rant and contained about as much logic as the drunken rants one would suffer at any bar.
For some one who is supposidly skilled in these field you should be very well aware unless the blade was brittle from new it will not suddenly break up in a single use and would have been cracked for a very long time which if it had been inspected for cracks, dents, missing teeth & sharpness before each use a person with your considerable mechanical skill would have seen these a very lone time before they became critical.
If you want help we are more than happy to provide it
If you just want to vent some **** from your liver there are specialist sites like Whirlpool where you will find a significant amount of people in a similar mind set to yourself ever ready to slap you on the back and encourage you to jump up & down higher and scream louder.
One of the odd bits did was forensic Metallurgy for the police Well I did the sample preperation and took the photos to be honest the reposrts were done by a much more experienced person than I
The idea of an unanounced catastrophic failure in a domestic tool is a fantasy.
The metals are not under that much stress ( WHEN USED ACCORDING TO THE INSTRUCTIONS ) and nothing on then are at the very edge of the materials capacity unlike in aircraft where weight is at a premium.
As a small engine workshop I see equipment an a daily basis that has "just suddenly failed " which had parts that should have been replaced 2 seasons ago.
Men are by far the worst , chain saw teeth that are so blunt they are rounded and they can not understand why the pulley has shattered or the crankshaft is bent.
Right now I am rebuilding the deck from a time cutter that "Suddenly stopped cutting ".
Both blades had the flutes broken off & were split on the edges making them grossly out of balance and setting up sufficient vibrations to start both deck hangers cracking, also pound all of the balls into the races so every bearing was stuffed and the vibrations were finally that bad that a spindle pulley had finally separated from the boss and was spinning freely on the shaft and had been running like this for long enough for the pulley to wear totally through the retaining nut and 1/2 way through the spindle shaft.
This is fairly typical of a "sudden failure" due to bad materials and of course had nothing to do with operator error.
This man had bought extended warranty and he wants me to make a warranty claim as the mower is only 2 years old and his rants are almost exactly the same as yours and feels he has been really hard done by.
A 1 minute inspection or 2 minutes of cleaning would have saved him the $ 845 deck repair, but in his mind it is all Toro's fault.
You were correct in one aspect though, your reply was a rant and contained about as much logic as the drunken rants one would suffer at any bar.
For some one who is supposidly skilled in these field you should be very well aware unless the blade was brittle from new it will not suddenly break up in a single use and would have been cracked for a very long time which if it had been inspected for cracks, dents, missing teeth & sharpness before each use a person with your considerable mechanical skill would have seen these a very lone time before they became critical.
If you want help we are more than happy to provide it
If you just want to vent some **** from your liver there are specialist sites like Whirlpool where you will find a significant amount of people in a similar mind set to yourself ever ready to slap you on the back and encourage you to jump up & down higher and scream louder.
#10
upupandaway
upupandaway
Well bert, while I am really venting toward echo, you express the same attitude as corporate. I understand you deserve pay for your work, but Geez, they weasel out of covering anything.
With their ACTUAL warranty coverage, the movie Liar Liar comes to mind. His car is scratched at the police impound. Claiming his car, he sees the huge scratch, states it wasn't there whey they towed it, and how much it is going to cost him. He then states how much court trouble and all it will take then arrives at the fact it will take a lot of time and money and still not be compensated. The guy who scratched it responds He's pretty smart.
deja vu..
I guess if buy anything again, use the crap out of if for the first month so that if there is anything wrong you will find it and can still get your money back.
With their ACTUAL warranty coverage, the movie Liar Liar comes to mind. His car is scratched at the police impound. Claiming his car, he sees the huge scratch, states it wasn't there whey they towed it, and how much it is going to cost him. He then states how much court trouble and all it will take then arrives at the fact it will take a lot of time and money and still not be compensated. The guy who scratched it responds He's pretty smart.
deja vu..
I guess if buy anything again, use the crap out of if for the first month so that if there is anything wrong you will find it and can still get your money back.
#11
RDA.Lawns
RDA.Lawns
Its not something you going to get resolved. They have to be taken apart inspected and lubed periodically.
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
There seems to be an idea that if it fits between the fingers then you can cut it which is not the case.
I don't do many hedge cutters but just about every one that comes in has dull blades usually with nicks & gouges in it. Funny enough fence wire generally fits the gouges nicely..
Down here it costs $ 60 to get them sharpened then an hour of my time to reassemble the unit as such most just throw then away and but either new blades or a new unit all together.
The cutter ( or cutters ) are usually made from tool steel, the hand forgers are always around looking for dead ones to make stuff with ( or I would not have known ).
As such they should not shatter, Shattered is not much of a description and my first question would be "shattered where ? "
I don't do many hedge cutters but just about every one that comes in has dull blades usually with nicks & gouges in it. Funny enough fence wire generally fits the gouges nicely..
Down here it costs $ 60 to get them sharpened then an hour of my time to reassemble the unit as such most just throw then away and but either new blades or a new unit all together.
The cutter ( or cutters ) are usually made from tool steel, the hand forgers are always around looking for dead ones to make stuff with ( or I would not have known ).
As such they should not shatter, Shattered is not much of a description and my first question would be "shattered where ? "
#13
upupandaway
upupandaway
I lube my equipment religiously. The store guy made no comment on the teeth, but stared at the cam end of the shaft where it broke.Its not something you going to get resolved. They have to be taken apart inspected and lubed periodically.
#14
upupandaway
For the last time, I stated how many times and the store guy saw no problem with the "teeth". I don't trim wires, all the teeth are perfect. I sent my video of the whole part to their cus service with no luck. Echo is not going to honor their warranty. Like you, they blame me. Their warranty is only as good as the length of the store return policy- afterward you are on your own. Lesson learned. Bert, please let this post just fade away...
"Shattered Where?" - see original post.
Looking back in your post I was amused- "The metals are not under that much stress " sure 2 metal parts about ~1.5?? lb each flying back and forth ~100 times/sec chopping wood.... "not under that much stress"
upupandaway
There seems to be an idea that if it fits between the fingers then you can cut it which is not the case.
I don't do many hedge cutters but just about every one that comes in has dull blades usually with nicks & gouges in it. Funny enough fence wire generally fits the gouges nicely..
Down here it costs $ 60 to get them sharpened then an hour of my time to reassemble the unit as such most just throw then away and but either new blades or a new unit all together.
The cutter ( or cutters ) are usually made from tool steel, the hand forgers are always around looking for dead ones to make stuff with ( or I would not have known ).
As such they should not shatter, Shattered is not much of a description and my first question would be "shattered where ? "
For the last time, I stated how many times and the store guy saw no problem with the "teeth". I don't trim wires, all the teeth are perfect. I sent my video of the whole part to their cus service with no luck. Echo is not going to honor their warranty. Like you, they blame me. Their warranty is only as good as the length of the store return policy- afterward you are on your own. Lesson learned. Bert, please let this post just fade away...
"Shattered Where?" - see original post.
Looking back in your post I was amused- "The metals are not under that much stress " sure 2 metal parts about ~1.5?? lb each flying back and forth ~100 times/sec chopping wood.... "not under that much stress"