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D140...tran problem...what to do?
#1
L
lindacms
L
lindacms
I purchased a D140 JD riding mower 3 years ago, it has 82 hours on it and will no longer go up hills. When I bought it, I didn't know the questions I should ask and my local JD dealer didn't ask me anything to get the right fit for me. Now, I have an expensive lawn ornament. I have about 3-4 acres of lawn with about 1/3 of it having slopes of 15-30 degrees. If I had known this mower was not appropriate for my needs, I would not have bought it. I didn't know what I should have been asking. I replaced the traction drive belt and a damaged V idler pulley in case that was causing the lack of power on the slopes. It barely made a difference. I paid $2000 for it and it would appear that this is commonplace that I have the wrong mower for the wrong job. I've been told that the tranny is "sealed" but that some have been able to remove them to add a different weight oil to the unit. I think that may be beyond what I can handle doing. I bought it from a local JD dealer so that I would have access to a reliable source when I needed them. That may have been my first mistake...only as strong as the weakest link. I've heard replacing the tran will easily be in the ballpark of $1600, I can't get it to the dealer so would have to have it picked up...selling it, I'm sure, would not give me much more than pocket change. Any suggestions out there on what to do next? Or which mower to go with? Needless to say, I highly doubt that the next machine will be a JD.
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
hydrostatic boxes have a finite life due to the way they work.
For some unknown JD have them filled with an oil lighter than what the makers specify.
So the No 1 thing to do is to pull the tranny , drain the oil and replace it with 20w 50 fully synthetic.
Generally I don't see any problems with the box till around 500 hours, which is around the design life of the mower.
When you have it off check the pulley very carefully as some of them will rip the splines off when exposed to excessive loads.
Clean the box very carefully before you remove the filler / drain cap.
These things are made in surgically clean conditions. Dust in the oil will drastically reduce the service life.
Some times a simple oil change works wonders, other times it does not but at $ 50 ( aus ) + 3 hours, cheap enough to give it a try.
The problem is the oil required varies according to where you live, how you use the mower and the temperature you us it in.
I think JD specify light oil so the units run well as both a mower & snow thrower
For some unknown JD have them filled with an oil lighter than what the makers specify.
So the No 1 thing to do is to pull the tranny , drain the oil and replace it with 20w 50 fully synthetic.
Generally I don't see any problems with the box till around 500 hours, which is around the design life of the mower.
When you have it off check the pulley very carefully as some of them will rip the splines off when exposed to excessive loads.
Clean the box very carefully before you remove the filler / drain cap.
These things are made in surgically clean conditions. Dust in the oil will drastically reduce the service life.
Some times a simple oil change works wonders, other times it does not but at $ 50 ( aus ) + 3 hours, cheap enough to give it a try.
The problem is the oil required varies according to where you live, how you use the mower and the temperature you us it in.
I think JD specify light oil so the units run well as both a mower & snow thrower
#3
L
lindacms
L
lindacms
Thanks, but I think removing the tranny is beyond what my skill level is, however, I may contact a local mower repair guy to see how much that might be. I do change my own oil and with my old Craftsman had done quite a few repairs on that throughout the years, but I think removing a transmission may be too much for me to tackle. I appreciate the reply though, thank you. With the slopes and hills that I have, it apparently has pushed the mower beyond what it was capable of doing.
#4
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
When you changed the belt did you go with the John Deere belt or a off brand belt ?? It makes a HUGE difference since the JD belts have different angle/bevel on them.
Is the all the air bled out really well ?? That takes time also. I am thinking you only had 82 hours on it that it was put in a real bad bind on it or someone might have towed it with hydros not released. That is a HUGE problem right there......
Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!
Is the all the air bled out really well ?? That takes time also. I am thinking you only had 82 hours on it that it was put in a real bad bind on it or someone might have towed it with hydros not released. That is a HUGE problem right there......
Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!
#5
L
lindacms
Yes, I went with OEM belt and V idler pulley. What air? Where would I be bleeding air out of? Yes, I think that the 10-30 degree slopes on about 1/2 of my 4 acres of grass, much of which can get quite long, definitely put too much strain on it. If you mow down, somehow you've got to get back up, so not much choice there.
L
lindacms
When you changed the belt did you go with the John Deere belt or a off brand belt ?? It makes a HUGE difference since the JD belts have different angle/bevel on them.
Is the all the air bled out really well ?? That takes time also. I am thinking you only had 82 hours on it that it was put in a real bad bind on it or someone might have towed it with hydros not released. That is a HUGE problem right there......
Let us know Mon Ami ~!~!
Yes, I went with OEM belt and V idler pulley. What air? Where would I be bleeding air out of? Yes, I think that the 10-30 degree slopes on about 1/2 of my 4 acres of grass, much of which can get quite long, definitely put too much strain on it. If you mow down, somehow you've got to get back up, so not much choice there.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It is not a difficult job to pull out the tranny.
It is held in with 2 bolts at the ends of each axel plus one more either side to stabilize the box ( stop it rotating ).
The brake lever has a split pin , when you replace with an R clip and the same for the forward reverse pedal.
The bypass lever has a clip.
Other than that thes might be a bracket with a switch ( reverse cut out ) and of course that #*!*# belt keeper behind the pulley
Once out there is a circlip on the pulley & fan then clean the box very well and remove the fill / drain cap by prying it up with an old chisel.
Tip the box upside down & leave it there for about 2 to 4 hours to drain.
The shop will charge you 3 to 4 hours.
The JD manual will cot you 1/2 of that.
The tranny manuals are available on line for free from the tranny makers.
Apart from that !#* belt keeper the only other hard bit is removing the plastic hub covers to get at the circlips to remove the wheels.
I find lifting the whole mower about 2' is about the ideal work height.
Mower on jack stands, jack under tranny.
It is held in with 2 bolts at the ends of each axel plus one more either side to stabilize the box ( stop it rotating ).
The brake lever has a split pin , when you replace with an R clip and the same for the forward reverse pedal.
The bypass lever has a clip.
Other than that thes might be a bracket with a switch ( reverse cut out ) and of course that #*!*# belt keeper behind the pulley
Once out there is a circlip on the pulley & fan then clean the box very well and remove the fill / drain cap by prying it up with an old chisel.
Tip the box upside down & leave it there for about 2 to 4 hours to drain.
The shop will charge you 3 to 4 hours.
The JD manual will cot you 1/2 of that.
The tranny manuals are available on line for free from the tranny makers.
Apart from that !#* belt keeper the only other hard bit is removing the plastic hub covers to get at the circlips to remove the wheels.
I find lifting the whole mower about 2' is about the ideal work height.
Mower on jack stands, jack under tranny.
#7
L
lindacms
Thanks for the vote of confidence that I can do it Bertsmobile! I already have the manual, which is one of he worst manuals I have ever had. I will go back and take a look at the mower again and the manual. I had also read that 5w30 or 5w50 could be used in "extreme conditions", you recommended 20w50...what is your reasoning for the weight oil that you recommended?
L
lindacms
It is not a difficult job to pull out the tranny.
It is held in with 2 bolts at the ends of each axel plus one more either side to stabilize the box ( stop it rotating ).
The brake lever has a split pin , when you replace with an R clip and the same for the forward reverse pedal.
The bypass lever has a clip.
Other than that thes might be a bracket with a switch ( reverse cut out ) and of course that #*!*# belt keeper behind the pulley
Once out there is a circlip on the pulley & fan then clean the box very well and remove the fill / drain cap by prying it up with an old chisel.
Tip the box upside down & leave it there for about 2 to 4 hours to drain.
The shop will charge you 3 to 4 hours.
The JD manual will cot you 1/2 of that.
The tranny manuals are available on line for free from the tranny makers.
Apart from that !#* belt keeper the only other hard bit is removing the plastic hub covers to get at the circlips to remove the wheels.
I find lifting the whole mower about 2' is about the ideal work height.
Mower on jack stands, jack under tranny.
Thanks for the vote of confidence that I can do it Bertsmobile! I already have the manual, which is one of he worst manuals I have ever had. I will go back and take a look at the mower again and the manual. I had also read that 5w30 or 5w50 could be used in "extreme conditions", you recommended 20w50...what is your reasoning for the weight oil that you recommended?
#8
B
bertsmobile1
My manual I was talking about the JD Technical manual, not the owners manual.
The JD technical manuals are excellent pieces of work, but not much about the internals of the tranny as they are not a JD part.
Tuff Torq & Hydrogear both use heavier oils either 10W 30 , 10W 40 or 20W 50.
Inside there is a lump of solid metal with pistons of some sort in it .
On one one side the pistons run against sloping plate on the other the cylinder block rotats against a stationary plate with holes for the oil to flow through.
You get wear between the rotatin & stationary bits, this makes grooves and the oil flows along the groove lines rather than through the pistons.
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks for the vote of confidence that I can do it Bertsmobile! I already have the manual, which is one of he worst manuals I have ever had. I will go back and take a look at the mower again and the manual. I had also read that 5w30 or 5w50 could be used in "extreme conditions", you recommended 20w50...what is your reasoning for the weight oil that you recommended?
My manual I was talking about the JD Technical manual, not the owners manual.
The JD technical manuals are excellent pieces of work, but not much about the internals of the tranny as they are not a JD part.
Tuff Torq & Hydrogear both use heavier oils either 10W 30 , 10W 40 or 20W 50.
Inside there is a lump of solid metal with pistons of some sort in it .
On one one side the pistons run against sloping plate on the other the cylinder block rotats against a stationary plate with holes for the oil to flow through.
You get wear between the rotatin & stationary bits, this makes grooves and the oil flows along the groove lines rather than through the pistons.
#9
L
lindacms
Yes, I bought the technical manual when I did some work on the carburetor, but have not been impressed with the manual...at all. I've had several tech manuals in the past, this one is not one of the better ones in my opinion. So would you recommend going with the heaviest oil, the 20w50? I have alot of 10-30 degree slopes with thick grass. Air temps when mowing are generally always over 75F but not usually over 90F. Do you think the 20w50 would be sufficient?
L
lindacms
My manual I was talking about the JD Technical manual, not the owners manual.
The JD technical manuals are excellent pieces of work, but not much about the internals of the tranny as they are not a JD part.
Tuff Torq & Hydrogear both use heavier oils either 10W 30 , 10W 40 or 20W 50.
Inside there is a lump of solid metal with pistons of some sort in it .
On one one side the pistons run against sloping plate on the other the cylinder block rotats against a stationary plate with holes for the oil to flow through.
You get wear between the rotatin & stationary bits, this makes grooves and the oil flows along the groove lines rather than through the pistons.
Yes, I bought the technical manual when I did some work on the carburetor, but have not been impressed with the manual...at all. I've had several tech manuals in the past, this one is not one of the better ones in my opinion. So would you recommend going with the heaviest oil, the 20w50? I have alot of 10-30 degree slopes with thick grass. Air temps when mowing are generally always over 75F but not usually over 90F. Do you think the 20w50 would be sufficient?
#10
B
bertsmobile1
Like the old cars of the past, as things wear you go to thicker oil to compensate for the wear.
B
bertsmobile1
Yes, I bought the technical manual when I did some work on the carburetor, but have not been impressed with the manual...at all. I've had several tech manuals in the past, this one is not one of the better ones in my opinion. So would you recommend going with the heaviest oil, the 20w50? I have alot of 10-30 degree slopes with thick grass. Air temps when mowing are generally always over 75F but not usually over 90F. Do you think the 20w50 would be sufficient?
Like the old cars of the past, as things wear you go to thicker oil to compensate for the wear.
#11
TJR345
TJR345
Before you pull the transmission check the key way on both sides.Remove the wheel there should be a square key way.I've seen them get worn from going up slopes and get rounded and slip when torque is applied from the hill.
#12
C
cdestuck
C
cdestuck
Back to your original question, for your yard you should stay with the Deere and get something in the 300x series. Tons of them out there for sale
#13
TJR345
With 3-4 acres at least he should be in the garden tractor line.A X590 with a 54" deck would cut his time down and have the tranny to handle the hills.A x7xx series if 4wd was needed.
TJR345
Back to your original question, for your yard you should stay with the Deere and get something in the 300x series. Tons of them out there for sale
With 3-4 acres at least he should be in the garden tractor line.A X590 with a 54" deck would cut his time down and have the tranny to handle the hills.A x7xx series if 4wd was needed.
#14
dfbroxy
dfbroxy
There are plenty of vidios on how to change oil in mower tranny, and to repair it if necessary. Google it. It helps a ton when you see someone do it.
#15
H
hussler1
H
hussler1
Another John Deere transmission for the junk yard. I had a L130 that did the same thing. There are 2 clutch packs that you can buy and replace. I replaced one of the two and it helped but I didn`t want to go thru the hassle of breaking into the tranny again to change the other one. It`s a John Deere,these things don`t happen to John Deere products right?! I ended up selling the piece of junk,I will never own a John Deere product again. I thought the dealer/customer service people would care but they couldn`t have cared less. More than happy to take my money to replace the tranny with a new one for $2300I purchased a D140 JD riding mower 3 years ago, it has 82 hours on it and will no longer go up hills. When I bought it, I didn't know the questions I should ask and my local JD dealer didn't ask me anything to get the right fit for me. Now, I have an expensive lawn ornament. I have about 3-4 acres of lawn with about 1/3 of it having slopes of 15-30 degrees. If I had known this mower was not appropriate for my needs, I would not have bought it. I didn't know what I should have been asking. I replaced the traction drive belt and a damaged V idler pulley in case that was causing the lack of power on the slopes. It barely made a difference. I paid $2000 for it and it would appear that this is commonplace that I have the wrong mower for the wrong job. I've been told that the tranny is "sealed" but that some have been able to remove them to add a different weight oil to the unit. I think that may be beyond what I can handle doing. I bought it from a local JD dealer so that I would have access to a reliable source when I needed them. That may have been my first mistake...only as strong as the weakest link. I've heard replacing the tran will easily be in the ballpark of $1600, I can't get it to the dealer so would have to have it picked up...selling it, I'm sure, would not give me much more than pocket change. Any suggestions out there on what to do next? Or which mower to go with? Needless to say, I highly doubt that the next machine will be a JD.
#16
tom3
tom3
Same here, sort of. My JD L130 started slowing at 300 hours. Pulled the Krap46 transaxle and split the case, cleaned out the shrapnel and filled with good old 10w40 Havoline. Ran another 200 hours with a real weak reverse when hot. Replaced it with a Peerless 2000 unit. That Tuff Torq tranny uses the same oil for the hydraulics and the differential gears. Those gears are some type of pressed metal and shred metal particles that eat up the hydro pump and motor pretty quick. Probably the cheapest piece of crap available, see in just about every new riding mower today. The Peerless has a separate differential and hydraulic unit. I hate to think about buying a new mower today, when I look under the back of them there's that POS Tuff Torq, even on some pretty expensive machines too. Won't buy another mower with green paint for sure!
#17
E
edward beday
E
edward beday
I am a retired heavy duty mechanic with many years of experience. I'm Having some trouble understanding some of your issues with this machine. If the transmission is failing, it should be getting blazing hot when under load. It is possible that the hydrostat has been damaged from overload, but if it was, it would be noisier than normal. Another way to tell it is failed is that it would travel slower on flat ground, with no load. Someone needs to check the mechanical linkage from the control lever to the transmission, take the pin out of the lever on the transmission end and see if the control lever and the transmission lever positions match each other at the max speed position. Of course, do this with the engine stopped. One thing about draining oil, if the transmission/hydrostat has failed, the oil will be discoloured, have a strong smell and be contaminated with lots of bright shiny metal particles. New oil or different oil will not fix that. I didn't see the old belts so don't know if slipping belt was/is an issue. If belt slippage was an issue, the pulleys even the belts might be glazed from overheat. Also, I didn't read anything about engine speed while the tractor won't go up the hills. does the engine speed get slower when the tractor slows down?I purchased a D140 JD riding mower 3 years ago, it has 82 hours on it and will no longer go up hills. When I bought it, I didn't know the questions I should ask and my local JD dealer didn't ask me anything to get the right fit for me. Now, I have an expensive lawn ornament. I have about 3-4 acres of lawn with about 1/3 of it having slopes of 15-30 degrees. If I had known this mower was not appropriate for my needs, I would not have bought it. I didn't know what I should have been asking. I replaced the traction drive belt and a damaged V idler pulley in case that was causing the lack of power on the slopes. It barely made a difference. I paid $2000 for it and it would appear that this is commonplace that I have the wrong mower for the wrong job. I've been told that the tranny is "sealed" but that some have been able to remove them to add a different weight oil to the unit. I think that may be beyond what I can handle doing. I bought it from a local JD dealer so that I would have access to a reliable source when I needed them. That may have been my first mistake...only as strong as the weakest link. I've heard replacing the tran will easily be in the ballpark of $1600, I can't get it to the dealer so would have to have it picked up...selling it, I'm sure, would not give me much more than pocket change. Any suggestions out there on what to do next? Or which mower to go with? Needless to say, I highly doubt that the next machine will be a JD.
#18
R
Rupper75
R
Rupper75
hydrostatic boxes have a finite life due to the way they work.
For some unknown JD have them filled with an oil lighter than what the makers specify.
So the No 1 thing to do is to pull the tranny , drain the oil and replace it with 20w 50 fully synthetic.
Generally I don't see any problems with the box till around 500 hours, which is around the design life of the mower.
When you have it off check the pulley very carefully as some of them will rip the splines off when exposed to excessive loads.
Clean the box very carefully before you remove the filler / drain cap.
These things are made in surgically clean conditions. Dust in the oil will drastically reduce the service life.
Some times a simple oil change works wonders, other times it does not but at $ 50 ( aus ) + 3 hours, cheap enough to give it a try.
The problem is the oil required varies according to where you live, how you use the mower and the temperature you us it in.
I think JD specify light oil so the units run well as both a mower & snow thrower
#19
N
Newcombe
N
Newcombe
Hello,
I had a JD LT 155 that has a similar Tuff Torque tranny in it. I had the same issue with mine. What I found out is that the key way on the input shaft of the transmission was so sloppy (somebody else mentioned this also) that the sheave was slipping on the shaft when climbing hills. Tuff torque sells a replacement input shaft due to this poor design. I replaced the shaft and all is well. Your could be something different but its work looking at. Good Luck!
I had a JD LT 155 that has a similar Tuff Torque tranny in it. I had the same issue with mine. What I found out is that the key way on the input shaft of the transmission was so sloppy (somebody else mentioned this also) that the sheave was slipping on the shaft when climbing hills. Tuff torque sells a replacement input shaft due to this poor design. I replaced the shaft and all is well. Your could be something different but its work looking at. Good Luck!
#20
Hammermechanicman
The K46 is low cost hydro. Its biggest problem is That JD puts in a fluid that is too thin. Under a heavy load the fluid bypasses around the pistons in the pump and motor at surersonic speed. That is where the whine comes from. Once it starts it is just a matter of time. Usually the whine of death will get louder as the hydro fails. Driving up a slight incline is considered a heavy load.
Hammermechanicman
I am a retired heavy duty mechanic with many years of experience. I'm Having some trouble understanding some of your issues with this machine. If the transmission is failing, it should be getting blazing hot when under load. It is possible that the hydrostat has been damaged from overload, but if it was, it would be noisier than normal. Another way to tell it is failed is that it would travel slower on flat ground, with no load. Someone needs to check the mechanical linkage from the control lever to the transmission, take the pin out of the lever on the transmission end and see if the control lever and the transmission lever positions match each other at the max speed position. Of course, do this with the engine stopped. One thing about draining oil, if the transmission/hydrostat has failed, the oil will be discoloured, have a strong smell and be contaminated with lots of bright shiny metal particles. New oil or different oil will not fix that. I didn't see the old belts so don't know if slipping belt was/is an issue. If belt slippage was an issue, the pulleys even the belts might be glazed from overheat. Also, I didn't read anything about engine speed while the tractor won't go up the hills. does the engine speed get slower when the tractor slows down?
The K46 is low cost hydro. Its biggest problem is That JD puts in a fluid that is too thin. Under a heavy load the fluid bypasses around the pistons in the pump and motor at surersonic speed. That is where the whine comes from. Once it starts it is just a matter of time. Usually the whine of death will get louder as the hydro fails. Driving up a slight incline is considered a heavy load.
#21
R
Rocky J
R
Rocky J
I am a cautious type myself so I take a lot of pictures before I start from a lot of angles, and more pictures of and on , sometimes I have to wait on parts, money, or time and it can be two weeks later before I assemble things , before I start I go through all the pictures and follow them as I go, when you ask yourself where did that bracket go and which way is up you look at the picture of that area. Like Bert said it is not that many fasteners, and the pictures will help you with a spring and clip, if you took on the carb linkage you can do this.
#22
gotomow
gotomow
Hopefully the OP will update us soon since his last post was back in September 2017. However I'm thinking that he has resolved his situation by now. One good thing about this thread is that I've gotten familiar with how to change the fluid on the K46 from watching several Youtube videos. Seems to be a very easy procedure at least on the JD's. Of course having a nice floor jack and stands and years of working on Laycock J-type overdrives on Triumphs and Volvos make this procedure a cake walk.
#23
tom3
tom3
On my K46 I had make temperature checks and never saw over 120 degrees F even on a hot summer day, no odd noises and ran quiet. But I'm still kind of shocked at the construction of this unit and seeing it on a 23 HP 600 lb mower.