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Greetings to forum.

What have is 20 year old JD with Kohler CV23s with 632 hours. No smoke, runs strong. Had some issues with starting the last few years so I hosed it down with carb cleaner this year, blowing out all the ports etc. Fortunately the gaskets and o-rings etc. were still good because I have no idea how long it will take for JD to get a kit. I also ordered new ignition coils due to weak spark. I took a wire wheel to the flywheel and ignition coil and that helped allot.

My question is simple enough, and is certainly subject to opinion and other factors such as core condition and the quality of the builder, but her it goes: As a general rule, are these Kohler engines worth rebuilding? I am getting up there in age and sort of thinking ...do I have this engine rebuilt, which should last me the rest of my life, (if done right) or drop 4-5k on a new tractor? Engine rebuilds are within my skillset, I simply do not want to get into a another engine rebuild. I have done enough of those over the years and JD wants 220 bucks for stupid book.

What say's the group...are the Kohlers worth the cost of a bottom up rebuild? Shoot...are parts even available? Push rods, pistons, valves etc.

The next part of the question will be oppinions on the new 200/300 series JD's, but I will save that for the JD thread.

Click above website & enter CV23 then scroll down page for Kohler Service Manual..
Shop above for Kohler OEM Engine Parts.
Just an idea of what new Kohler CV23's are priced at today above.

Thanks for the links Mark.

Nobody has any oppnions on rebuilding?

Gibson2, https://www.google.com/search?q=HOW...7j33i160l2.44932j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Just information above. When parts are readily available a rebuild kit may be the way to go both economically & timewise. With new engine replacements priced at around $2000 a rebuild kit may be around $500.

Very few bother to rebuild engines any more because new engines are so cheap it is not economical
I have rebuilt mostly Kohlers horizontals and if I was charging my regular labour rate then the rebuilds would be 50% more expensive than replacing the engine from a discount engine supplier.
My only advice is to pull the engine down first clean , examine & measure before you order parts as I often come across things like cracked bosses which make the crankcases scrap metal .
Kohler prices are honest prices not heavily discounted as B & S prices used to be so a full rebuld kit for a Kohler twin can be almost as much as a B & S engine of the same Hp and definately more than the knock offs out of third world countries .
I have 3 Kohlers 3 Briggs and 2 Kawakasi engines inthe shop right now.
They have been here waiting for over 2 years to be done when I have nothing more profitable to do

bertsmobile1 said:

Very few bother to rebuild engines any more because new engines are so cheap it is not economical
I have rebuilt mostly Kohlers horizontals and if I was charging my regular labour rate then the rebuilds would be 50% more expensive than replacing the engine from a discount engine supplier.
My only advice is to pull the engine down first clean , examine & measure before you order parts as I often come across things like cracked bosses which make the crankcases scrap metal .
Kohler prices are honest prices not heavily discounted as B & S prices used to be so a full rebuld kit for a Kohler twin can be almost as much as a B & S engine of the same Hp and definately more than the knock offs out of third world countries .
I have 3 Kohlers 3 Briggs and 2 Kawakasi engines inthe shop right now.
They have been here waiting for over 2 years to be done when I have nothing more profitable to do

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The Kohler Command is a great engine. If you have the time, capability, and motivation, then I say go for it on the rebuild. The sense of personal satisfaction is very high in a situation like this.

Appreciate the reply's. This has a been good engine, and a good mower. Need to crunch the numbers some more.

An engine that was completely worn out, meaning it would need bored, oversized pistons, undersized rods, valve guides reamed and oversized valves and probably a new carb would definitely not be worth rebuilding.

I would add that depending on how the engine is cared for and maintained and stored, if you have only put 632 hours on it in 20 years I'd say you have about 60 years left on that engine at that same hour rate. 2500 hours is very doable for a Command twin that has had the dirt kept out of it and good clean oil kept in it.

VegetiveSteam said:

An engine that was completely worn out, meaning it would need bored, oversized pistons, undersized rods, valve guides reamed and oversized valves and probably a new carb would definitely not be worth rebuilding.

I would add that depending on how the engine is cared for and maintained and stored, if you have only put 632 hours on it in 20 years I'd say you have about 60 years left on that engine at that same hour rate. 2500 hours is very doable for a Command twin that has had the dirt kept out of it and good clean oil kept in it.

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Whoa...seriously? I thought I had read (yeah I know the internet..rolling eyes) that 1000-1200 hours is about tops. Seems like when I tell someone it has over six hundred hours (dealer) the say "that's allot". I figure I put 30-40 hours max a year on it but I have never paid attention to the hour meter until this year. Where I lack routine is they say your supposed to change the oil before storage. I usually do an oil change about mid season so that means I have 20 hours on it before storage. But man, If I can get 1800 to 2000 hours it should last me the rest of my life as long as I keep doing what I am doing and a bit of luck. Well, my winter storage is crap. It sits outside all winter (Idaho) with a tarp over it. If I sell the Harley I can park it in the garage but I am not ready to give up the bike yet. And I totally agree with your opening paragraph which is why I was thinking about doing it now, before it shows signs of problems. I just finished replacing main drive belt and idler pulley's, pinion and sector gear, and of course the bushings. Next up are front wheel bushings and axle pivot bushings. Need tires too, bad.

The hours you put on your unit in 20 years would probably be about the average number of hours a commercial cutter puts on in one year. Less in the northern states and more in the southern states but 600 hours would be a pretty fair average. These guys are spending $8000 to $12000 for a piece of equipment running the exact same Kohler engine you have and they're expecting to get at least 3 years out of it and hoping for 4 or 5. The guys that are strict about maintenance and know how to do it right will get that no problem barring some defect and an honest defect will usually show up fairly quickly well within warranty.

You're obviously doing something right to keep it going for 20 years stored outside even if it has what I would consider very low hours. Outside storage can be rough but I'd keep doing what you're doing and hang on to that Harley.

Gibson2 said:

Whoa...seriously? I thought I had read (yeah I know the internet..rolling eyes) that 1000-1200 hours is about tops. Seems like when I tell someone it has over six hundred hours (dealer) the say "that's allot". I figure I put 30-40 hours max a year on it but I have never paid attention to the hour meter until this year. Where I lack routine is they say your supposed to change the oil before storage. I usually do an oil change about mid season so that means I have 20 hours on it before storage. But man, If I can get 1800 to 2000 hours it should last me the rest of my life as long as I keep doing what I am doing and a bit of luck. Well, my winter storage is crap. It sits outside all winter (Idaho) with a tarp over it. If I sell the Harley I can park it in the garage but I am not ready to give up the bike yet. And I totally agree with your opening paragraph which is why I was thinking about doing it now, before it shows signs of problems. I just finished replacing main drive belt and idler pulley's, pinion and sector gear, and of course the bushings. Next up are front wheel bushings and axle pivot bushings. Need tires too, bad.

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Tou should get that from a residential ( Courage ) engine
Down here, 2 hours a mow x 50 mows a year ( Hollywood climate ) so 100 hrs a year
Commercial 4 hours a day x 5 days a week x 50 weeks = 1000 hrs/y
Most companies give a 3 to 5 year warranty so they expect those engines to go 3000 to 5000 hrs.
Governed engines should just about run forever as they are not under very much stress so it is just wear of the alloy cases by the crankshaft and wear on the alloy rod by the big end journal.
So keep the air clean and you are laughing
It is no accident that commercial mowers come with canister filters .

Salesmen...pffft.

I spoke with a guy in the JD service department yesterday. I wanted to know what is "acceptable" play in the front axle pivot bushing. He walked me out back to a mower exactly like mine where they had just rebuilt the front end. The customer, reportedly, bought from them when it was new (2004) and has brought his mower in for regular service ever since. He turned the key and showed me 3000+ hours on it. He said he is not sure if that is accurate or not "but there you go". That was the good news, the bad new, my pivot bushings show more play then I am comfortable with. Oh well, I have replaced everything else on the front end and the steering system this year might as well do that and be done with it.

Hey...I really appreciate all the advice, links etc.!

VegetiveSteam said:

An engine that was completely worn out, meaning it would need bored, oversized pistons, undersized rods, valve guides reamed and oversized valves and probably a new carb would definitely not be worth rebuilding.

I would add that depending on how the engine is cared for and maintained and stored, if you have only put 632 hours on it in 20 years I'd say you have about 60 years left on that engine at that same hour rate. 2500 hours is very doable for a Command twin that has had the dirt kept out of it and good clean oil kept in it.

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I have seen Kohler CV engines with thousands of hours on them. Have a friend with one on a Dixie Chopper and he swares it has at least 8,000 hours on it. Ony thing it has had done is intake manifold gaskets. Still does not use oil. Know a guy with an old Dixie Chopper with a Generac on it and says it has 11,000 hours on it.