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Hello All.

Went to use the John Deere today and after about 30 minutes of using it, the engine started making a loud ticking noise. The noise only happens once the engine is up to temperature. This has happened 3 times already but it is only after about a half an hour of mowing. If I shut the engine down for 10 minutes or so and then start back up, the noise is gone. Since the engine isn't completely cooled, it gets back up to temperature rather quick and the noise comes right back. Not only can I hear the ticking sound coming from the front of the engine, I can also hear that the engine sounds different (exhaust noise changes). I am not having any issues with the engine missing, sputtering, surging, stalling or backfiring, it's just making the ticking noise.

I looked around on the web and all things are pointing to a lifter issue. I am using Kohler synthetic 10w30 oil which was just changed about 3 (engine) hours ago. The engine has had a complete tune-up this summer and is not having any other issues.

What could be causing this problem and is it easily fixable?

Thanks guys!

Mike

Sounds like either a lifter has collapsed or in some cases if they fail to rotate will wear a groove in the bottom of the lifter and will make a ticking noise and in some cases will sound like the rods are coming out of it. Have to remove the head on the vertical engines to get the lifters out.

That is what I was afraid of. I just watched a video on the whole job and it does not appear too bad but if I am going through the process of replacing the lifter(s), what else should I be replacing once I am in there? Will I need to "adjust" anything on the head prior to the valve cover going back on?

I have read where some have had luck with simply running a solvent type product in the crankcase oil such as Seafoam or alike. Since the issue is only happening when the engine is hot, it is possible that it could just be a blockage that is occurring once the oil gets up to the proper viscosity?

I would take the valve cover off and see if the push rods are tight like the lifters have them pushed up. If those are tight then I would suspect the flat spot on the lifter. I can't think of anything you would need to adjust on the head if you are replacing both lifters which I recommend. Other than also replace the head gasket exhaust and intake gaskets.

Have you changed the oil recently?
I changed the oil and filter in a cv15 one time with, it was either pennzoil or valvoline 10w30... Lifters started ticking. Then I changed it out with Kohler brand 10W30, ticking stopped and it still running like a top.

To answer the questions above:

Yes, I have changed the oil recently, twice in fact. Both times were with Genuine Kohler Full Synthetic 10w-30 oil and Kohler/Deere filter. The engine is 22 years old and never had a problem; maybe it was just time.

I decided to take the mower into the shop to have the work done. They said that depending on how things look they might just replace the whole head with the Deere Part number that includes the lifters and rods as well as all other parts except for the valve cover. If they get in there and the head looks good, which I am sure it will, they will just do the valves, lifters, rods and maybe springs. Either way I will be looking at $250-500 total depending on what they do. The parts are all warrantied for 12 months and labor for 90 days. I figure that with this machine being in such good condition, the deck being rebuilt, trans fluid changed and running strong, why not put a little into it.

Hopefully I will get it back in two weeks and it will be running like a champ again. I believe that I caught this problem early too as the issue would only occur when the engine was warmed up, so it's not like the failure was happening all the time. Rather fix it now before the whole engine goes.

Just an update:

I got a call from the dealership yesterday regarding my mower and this is how the conversation went...

Matt: Hi Mike, this is Matt, I just wanted to let you know that the Technician looked at your mower and said that the sound you are hearing is normal.

Me: What do you mean? The ticking in the valve cover that happens after the engine has been running for 30 minutes is normal?

Matt: The Technician ran the mower for at least 30 minutes with a weight on the seat and he said that it sounds really good.

Me: Yeah, but the mower was not having this issue when I got it, and now all of a sudden it does.

Matt: We looked into the John Deere documents and there is a recommendation to replace the rods with solid ones.

Me: I thought that the issue I was experiencing was a collapsed lifter?

Matt: Well, if there is a problem with the lifter then there is most likely a problem with the cams as well. We would have to tear apart the entire engine to make sure that the cam doesn't have a groove or notch in it.

Me: But how does this explain a problem that your Technician said doesn't exist, when he stated that it is normal sounding and is running good?

Matt: It's hard to say but at the end of the day, it is going to cost you nearly $500 to diagnose and fix the issue if it involves getting into the bottom end of the engine. Given it's age, the Technician and I were discussing and it might not be worth it.

Me: I already had a conversation with Jay and I thought that this was simply going to be a head replacement with new lifters and rods. I was already quoted $500 to do the job and I was okay paying that. While Jay is no Technician, I am describing a well known issue with this engine and from the research I have done, this should more than fix my engine, especially since the problem isn't happening before the engine is up to temp.

Matt: Let me talk to the Technician again and see what he thinks we would need to do to figure out what is going on and get back to you.

Yesterday comes to a close and I do not hear anything from the dealership.

I call back today and this is my conversation:

Me: Hi Matt, just checking to see if you got a chance to discuss my mower with the Technician?

Matt: Yeah, I was just talking with him and he said that he would need to tear the whole thing down to figure out what is causing the problem.

Me: Again, I thought that this was just a lifter issue.

Matt: Well, if he is going to get the head off of the engine and replace the lifters and rods, then he would want to be sure that the cam is also in good condition.

Me: How much is this going to cost?

Matt: The Technician is putting a quote together right now to figure out how much it is going to cost to do all that needs to be done. I will be in touch once I have that back from him.

Me: Okay, talk to you soon.


WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?

I had been very specific in explaining what was going on with the mower, but the communication between the guy at the counter and the Technician must not be very clear, or the Technician doesn't know too much about what is going on.

Now, while I am no technician, I was quite certain that my issues was indeed a collapsed lifter or at the very least an issue of the oil pressure and not being able to keep the rod moving with the rockers. Since I am noticing a very distinctive change in exhaust sound, I assume that the issues is on the side of the exhaust valve. I am about ready to pick it up and just tear the top end down myself. I was just not wanting to get so involved in this myself, but I am starting to feel as if the dealership is lollygagging around!!!

Am I wrong in my thinking?

If you have a lifter issue it sounds the same in that engine as it does in an automobile engine. The groove on the bottom of the lifter can have a more distinct clatter. I have never seen an issue with the cam on Kohler Command engines so my first thought is the dealer is fishing for more work. I know Kohler recommends camshaft inspection replacement with a lifter issues. But they also recommend replacing all the drive gears also while they are at it. So by Kohler recommendation they would need to change the camshaft, crankshaft, governor gear and oil pump gear.

Just for grins you could change out the oil for conventional straight 30wt and see what happens. It won't hurt it with the temps we have right now. I have seen engines make valve train noise with thin oil.

I just had the bottom end apart and it looked great in there. I wasn't specifically looking for anything but from what I could tell, the engine was nearly flawless in appearance. Even at 22 years old it would still have golden yellow oil at the changes. As for the dealership fishing for more work, you may be right. I have a feeling that they are trying to either get as much out of the job as they can, or they are trying to quote the job out of my budget so that they don't have to do the work. I asked about warranty on parts and labor so I am assuming with the age of the engine, they would be taking a greater risk in fixing it at this point.

Hammermechanicman said:

Just for grins you could change out the oil for conventional straight 30wt and see what happens. It won't hurt it with the temps we have right now. I have seen engines make valve train noise with thin oil.

Click to expand...

When I first started looking into this, everything that I read kept saying to bed sure to run 10w30 in these engines as single weight oils will make more noise. In my case I don't think it would matter since the noise isn't at startup (10w) but rather when the engine gets up to temp (30w). I do not know which oil was run in the machine before I got it but I started using Kohler Synthetic 10w30 when I first changed the oil. I might look into a conventional 10w30 such as the Deere oil to see if that makes a difference. Either way, I think the lifters need to be swapped. It is only by a lack of ability for the rod to return up (follow the rocker) that it would then let the rocker tap on the rod. In other words, short or a not-so-likely cam issue, it is the lifter going/gone bad.

I've been running Rotella T 15w40 with a dose of Rislone ZDDP additive in my Kohler twin lately. Getting old at 700 hours but this oil seems to do the job fine. Old throwaway JD L130 that I'm going to keep going until it keels over completely.

I have run Rotella 15w40 in my 1976 International 184 for over 20 years with no issues. No hour meter but probably got about 100 hours a year on it for the first 20 years of its life.

I guess I am picking up the mower tomorrow without any repairs being completed by the dealer.

I got a call from them this morning and he went over a list that the Technician gave him. $1250!!!!!!!!!!

This was what he stated was the "worst case scenario." The job would include a new camshaft, new cylinder head and lifter and all labor to tear down and rebuild.

I am sorry but I think that this guy is CRAZY. I did ask what the bare minimum it would cost to do just the valves, lifters and rods and the labor alone was over $400 based on the service manual. Also, he stated that the Technician wouldn't necessarily be willing to put in new valves if for some reason they would't "seat" properly in the head.

So, I decided that I would just pay them for the half hour of labor they have into "diagnosing" it and I will just tear the top end down myself. I am quite certain that if the rods are valves are in good condition, then I will just swap out the lifters with new ones, put a new head gasket one and put it back together. I will tie up a few hours of my time and maybe $100 of parts including an oil change and hopefully it will fix my problem. At this point I just cannot justify spending any more than $500 on it no matter what guarantees I get, but with the engine being 22 years old, nothing short of a complete overhaul will really provide any guarantee.

With the long weekend ahead, I hope to at least have it torn down by Monday so that I can get a list of parts together to order next week.

I will report back with pictures once I get the head off.

Yeah, sure sounds like that shop was B.S.'ing you /didn't want to do the work... or they assumed you didn't know nothing about engine and were taking you to the cleaners....New valves wouldn't seat properly in the head? That's what Permatex lapping compound is for and a suction tool or a valve grinder.

$30 for 2 lifters and 12 for a head gasket.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Yeah, sure sounds like that shop was B.S.'ing you /didn't want to do the work... or they assumed you didn't know nothing about engine and were taking you to the cleaners....New valves wouldn't seat properly in the head? That's what Permatex lapping compound is for and a suction tool or a valve grinder.

PartsTree - Home of OEM Parts for Outdoor Power Equipment

Parts lookup and repair parts diagrams for outdoor equipment like Toro mowers, Cub Cadet tractors, Husqvarna chainsaws, Echo trimmers, Briggs engines, etc.

www.partstree.com

$30 for 2 lifters and 12 for a head gasket.

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There excuse with the valves is that they are "not a machine shop" and therefore if they had any issue at all with the new valves, they wouldn't be able to address the issue. I do not disagree that they obviously don't want the business. When I first called it was going to be $500 to do the head job, and I was fine with that. I took it up there to have that job done, and now they are saying that it MIGHT need this and that and so on getting me up to $1250 to do the whole job. I have a very clean, well maintained, and otherwise well running machine, with the exception of this INTERMITTENT tap under the valve cover. I would not think that this was a major problem and therefore the engine that they would be working on wouldn't have any surprises once they opened it up. Like I said, I think at this point I might as well attempt to fix myself and if in the end the engine blows up I only wasted a bit of time and a lot less money.

It's these situations that make me wonder why I didn't just buy a new machine when I had the urge.....

Heck, you might try adding the correct amount of marvel mystery oil to the crankcase, I have read of people having good success with it quieting car lifters.

I love how they can create a quote for repairs $$$$ when they haven't even open the engine up yet. Tech can't hear anything now. Like yes it's going to cost you $$$$ and it sounds proper??

slomo

Scrubcadet10 said:

Heck, you might try adding the correct amount of marvel mystery oil to the crankcase, I have read of people having good success with it quieting car lifters.

Click to expand...

He is using Kroller synthetic already. Unless it's not the recommended oil grade? Possibly should be using 30w? Bet some good ol' 30w will quieten her down. Course there is no noise per JD tech so what are we talking about? That engine sounds normal.

slomo

Scrubcadet10 said:

Yeah, sure sounds like that shop was B.S.'ing you /didn't want to do the work... or they assumed you didn't know nothing about engine and were taking you to the cleaners....New valves wouldn't seat properly in the head? That's what Permatex lapping compound is for and a suction tool or a valve grinder.

PartsTree - Home of OEM Parts for Outdoor Power Equipment

Parts lookup and repair parts diagrams for outdoor equipment like Toro mowers, Cub Cadet tractors, Husqvarna chainsaws, Echo trimmers, Briggs engines, etc.

www.partstree.com

$30 for 2 lifters and 12 for a head gasket.

Click to expand...

Do you think these shops work for free? Like bring in your mower. We will fix it AND give you a $500 bonus check LOL. He took it to a JD shop, not some local mower hack on a street corner.

By the way OP, how much does your cell phone cost?

slomo

cruzenmike said:

When I first started looking into this, everything that I read kept saying to bed sure to run 10w30 in these engines as single weight oils will make more noise. In my case I don't think it would matter since the noise isn't at startup (10w) but rather when the engine gets up to temp (30w). I do not know which oil was run in the machine before I got it but I started using Kohler Synthetic 10w30 when I first changed the oil. I might look into a conventional 10w30 such as the Deere oil to see if that makes a difference. Either way, I think the lifters need to be swapped. It is only by a lack of ability for the rod to return up (follow the rocker) that it would then let the rocker tap on the rod. In other words, short or a not-so-likely cam issue, it is the lifter going/gone bad.

Click to expand...

You have been confused by all of the advetising BS about oils
The 10W oil does no get thicker when it gets hot, it just maintains about the same viscosity hot & cold
The strait 30W starts off thick when cold but quickly gets thin when hot
So a 10W 30 & strait 30 have the same viscosity when hot but the 10W 30 is thinner when cold
The trick is the second number in a multigrade is measures are 100C so a 10W 30 is the same viscosity at 100C as strait 30 is at 100C both of which will be lower than 10W cold
The big difference is the multi grade being thinner when cold will create less viscious drag on the starter motor .

The 2 JD dealers near me are $98/hr and i would agree that they are not a machine shop. The dealer tech is diagnosing a problem inside an engine without seeing inside the engine first so they are quoting worst case which is what i would do too because for the money they will need to warranty the work. Probably the high estimate is their way of not wanting to do the work which i understand. In all probability a new set of lifters would fix the problem but if the tech opened the engine and did not find an obvious problem he would need to check all rod and piston clearances and replace the lifters and cam because the shop does not want to take it apart a second time on their own dime if the noise is still there.

I guess part of this issue may be my fault; at least with the dealership. When I first noticed the problem I called the dealership and talked with a guy at the counter. I explained to him that I had an LT155 with the Kohler CV15 and that I was having a ticking sound under the valve cover which just started and was (from my hours of research including reading forum posts, watching YouTube videos and consulting with a car mechanic) likely a collapsed lifter. I asked him what they could do and at the time he went through the "worst case" scenario which was to have to replace the whole head assembly along with the new lifters. Over the phone he told me the cost would be about $500. When I finally got around to taking the mower in, the person that I talked to on the phone was not in so I had to deal with someone else at the counter. He simply wrote down on the service ticket "lifter noise at operating temp." From there I have played phone tag and gone back and forth with this other guy and his Technician about what they think needs to be done, and whether or not it is worth it considering the mower's age, DESPITE the fact that upon running the mower for half an hour the Technician said that it sounded "normal" and "good." Any attempt to get them to just do what I originally discussed with the counter person before I brought it in, has led to an ongoing tally of this and that which should be done and the $1250 quote that came to be.

I certainly wasn't expecting anything for free, nor did I have an issue with the labor rate, rather I have an issue with how a seemingly simple job that I asked to have done, and will likely solve my problem has turned into me picking up my mower without anything done and to have to tackle the project myself. I am fully capable and know enough about this job to do it myself, I just didn't want to hassle with it as I have many other projects going on at home right now. Had they just done what was originally discussed and charged me the $500 for said job, this discussion would be non-existent.

As a side note, I do understand some basic properties of oil. Like I said before the issue of the tick/tap/knock, whatever you want to call it, does NOT occur when the engine is cold, or anywhere near that. I would have to run the mower for at least a half an hour, under load, before I would start to hear the sound. Turn off and let it sit for even a couple of minutes and it will go away, but quickly come back as the engine and oil are still hot. I have always ran straight 30w oil in my summer machines as my climate and use has always allowed. I have only gone to 10w-30 in this engine BECAUSE the JD dealer as well as many others with ticking issues have suggested. Bert, when I stated 10w in my other post I was referring to startup viscosity being different in the 10w30 as opposed to the straight 30.

I have not tried any "mystery oil" but I did try using SeaFoam to help break down any deposits in the oil. I tried 1 ounce per quart of oil and 1.5 ounces per quart of oil. Each time I put the SeaFoam into fresh oil and ran for about 10 minutes at full throttle and then drained the oil, flushed and did the treatment again. I am open to trying a different engine oil additive/flush and possibly even SAE30 as SLOMO has suggested. All of these little "tests" are certainly cheaper than repairs and will not hurt the engine.

Lastly, my cell phones never cost more than $150. I just don't believe in spending absurd amounts of money on a very disposable and quickly out-dated piece of technology. Besides, I only use it to call, text, do email and keep a calendar. I don't play games, I don't have social media, I am no vlogger, blogger or Instagram model. So, if your intent was to point out how much people (me) spend on their cell phones and are not willing to pay for equipment repairs, it won't work here!! I certainly have no problem paying fair rates for quality work, I just don't appreciate the run around!

I really do appreciate everyone's attempt to help out here, but I think that the only way this one is going to get solved is to tear into it myself and see what I find. The alternative is to just run it until it dies. A re-power, albiet a Briggs single, is only about $700 anyway. Always an option down the road since everything else on the mower is perfect.

Buy a new Chinese special for a couple hundred bucks. Verify shaft size and rig up the muffler, pretty decent quality. And this place has a bunch of K56 Tuff Torq, hydros for cheap too.

Just to give an update:

I picked up the LT155 from the dealership on Friday and brought it home. The first thing that I did was add about 5 ounces of SeaFoam to the oil that was in it and ran it at idle for about 20 minutes and then did a complete oil change. The oil that was in the machine only had about 3 hours on it, but it still came out kind of dark, so maybe the SeaForm did it's work. I threw a new filter on it and put in two quarts of Torq-Gard SAE30 oil. Fast forward to today and I ran the mower for about an hour and a half without the ticking noise returning, BUT now I can smell it burning oil. It would make a faint smell of burning oil at startup when I first got it, but it would never small of burning oil throughout the mowing. It is not blowing out smoke or anything like that, but I now worried that the engine issues may be more severe than just the lifters. Could it be that the different oil is causing it to burn more? I always thought that multi-grade viscosity oils were more likely to be "consumed" or burned through normal use.

Make sure that one of the valve covers isn't leaking and dripping down on the muffler. Doesn't take much to create a heck of a smell and smoke screen.

ILENGINE said:

Make sure that one of the valve covers isn't leaking and dripping down on the muffler. Doesn't take much to create a heck of a smell and smoke screen.

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I looked at the valve cover and there is nothing leaking there. I am quite certain that it is coming from within the engine. I am still contemplating taking the head off to inspect and replace any valvetrain components that need it, which obviously includes replacing the head gasket so if this doesn't fix the burning oil issue then I think that just leaves the piston rings. For the coming weeks I will probably just monitor my oil consumption to gauge how bad it is. If I can live with it, I might just go on for a while until the end of the season maybe when I have a bit more time to tinker with it.

Pull the breather tube off the back of the air filter housing.
Problem goes away or reduces substantially = rings

Might make no difference, but my Kohler has had their 10w30 in it since new. Last spring I was in Rural Kind and they had Valvoline oil on sale, way better than $8 a quart, got a couple quarts and changed the oil. Like you, I started smelling oil burning right off. Real quick I changed it again with Rotella 15w40 and a zinc additive. Been fine since then. Might give this a try?

tom3 said:

Might make no difference, but my Kohler has had their 10w30 in it since new. Last spring I was in Rural Kind and they had Valvoline oil on sale, way better than $8 a quart, got a couple quarts and changed the oil. Like you, I started smelling oil burning right off. Real quick I changed it again with Rotella 15w40 and a zinc additive. Been fine since then. Might give this a try?

Click to expand...

This weekend I will double check the oil level which might be a tiny bit high and take it down to a smidge below the full line and see what happens. I will then try the breather tube and see if that tells me anything. Worst case I already have a couple of quarts of the Kolher synthetic 10w30 waiting should I want to change it back over. I certainly hope that I am not juggling one problem for another by changing oil grades. Maybe I will look for a good off-road oil with ZDDP?

cruzenmike said:

This weekend I will double check the oil level which might be a tiny bit high and take it down to a smidge below the full line and see what happens. I will then try the breather tube and see if that tells me anything. Worst case I already have a couple of quarts of the Kolher synthetic 10w30 waiting should I want to change it back over. I certainly hope that I am not juggling one problem for another by changing oil grades. Maybe I will look for a good off-road oil with ZDDP?

Click to expand...

kawasaki K-Tech is supposed to be high in ZDDP, comes in the usual Weights.

Put about another 5 hours on it and still getting the smell of burning oil every once in a while. It comes and go and seems to be only when under heavy loads. She's not smoking or anything so I will just keep checking the oil level. Once it drops below where I can fill with the remainder of my oil jug I will do an oil and filter change and switch back to the Kohler 10w30 and see if the burning smell goes away or the lifted noise comes back.

Place a clean white tissue or paper towel over the exhaust outlet hole. Rev it for a bit. See what you get.

slomo

Switched back over to the Kohler Full Synthetic oil with higher capacity filter this week. A couple of things that I have noticed since I switched back to the oil that I was using before:

- Burning oil smell is not as apparent as before, although I thought it to be generally accepted that multi-grade oils tend to "burn" more than SAE 30 does.
- The engine appears to get "hotter" with use of the multi-grade oil as opposed to the SAE30. This may be due to the multi-grade oil thickening when hot which equals more work for the engine?
- Valve noise did not come back even with 2 hours of continuous use. I will mention that ambient air temperatures this week were about 20-30 degrees cooler than the last time I used this oil and was hearing the noise.

Considering all of the things that I have said, I am still quite confused as to what is going on. I would have thought that a valve/lifter problem was something that wouldn't just come and go if there is a true "failure" of one of those engine components. If all of this is simply related to ambient air temperatures or the oil grade, then I will just have to keep looking for the combination that doesn't burn as much while still keeping the lifters quiet.

Synthetics have lower ash and don't burn as much as mono grade or multi grades
No burn = no smell

Multi grade oils, synthetic or standard DO NOT GET THICKER AS THEY GET HOTTER, this was advertising BS that has become urban myth
Multi grades get thinner just like everything else does as it gets hot, but they thin at a SLOWER / LOWER rate than a monograde oil
So SAE 30 & 1W 30 ( or any other xxW 30 will all be the same ( thinner ) viscosity at working temperature.
From memory the "working temperature " is 100 C

The difference is the viscosity when cold which puts a heavy load on the starter motor
This is why up north where it snows they recommend 5w 30 or 10w 30 and down south were it don't snow strait 30 or 40 or even 20w 50
For horizontal cylinder engines the lower cold viscosity tends to make them more prone to leaking when not in use and oil leaking past the piston rings & accumulating in the bore causing a few puffs of smoke on start up.

Well...... I think the Kohler finally took a crap today!! It has been running "fine" the last few weeks with only a slight hint of oil burn and no ticking or knocking from the engine. I was mowing and sweeping the lawn for about 3 hours today when all of a sudden the engine started to make a loud noise and within seconds it started to lose power. I shut it off and checked to make sure that I had not run it out of gas but the tank was half full. I tried starting it back up but it was having a really hard time turning over. When it finally did start it noticed a HORRENDOUS knocking from the engine. This time it sounds like it is coming from inside the crankcase and not the valve cover. I limped it back to the garage and put it away for the season but now have to figure out what I am going to do with it.

At this point I have quite a bit of money put into the machine that it seems almost worth it to try and fix the engine so that I have a near-perfect machine, but then again, if I pour another $500 dollars into it, I will have then put as much money into this 22 year old machine as what a new riding mower costs.

I was checking out the website that Tom sent and found that they are selling a Loncin 452cc engine. Here is the link for it: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Engin...tical-Loncin-LC1P92F-1-Gas-Engine-28-1877.axd

I fully realize that I can find a used CV15 that I could just swap in, or I could opt for the Briggs Intek conversion, but at this point I am not going to buy a used motor and I do not want to spend the $750 for the new Briggs.

If I remember correctly, the Loncin engine is the same on that is used in a Toro zero turn mower, and possibly even one model of Exmark (Quest). Since it is nearly the same size displacement, close to the same HP and I believe has the same shaft size.

Maybe someone on here can answer a couple of questions that I have about this engine:

1) Would this engine have the same bolt pattern so that I can mount it right up where the Kohler was?

2) While this engine will most certainly have a voltage regulator whereas mine does not, what other electrical modifications will have to be made to use this engine?

3) One of the specs that I see on this engine state that it has splash lubrication and not pressure lubrication. While it is easy to believe this to be the case considering the price of the engine, it just seemed odd considering that Toro was placing this into a $2500 zero turn and giving it a 3-year warranty. Should splash lubrication have any significant impact on performance or durability for such as small machine as my LT155?

4) I know that the Toro model that has this engine does not appear to have a separate choke lever, so should my single lever (throttle and choke combined) work just fine?

If in the end I cannot swap over to one of these Loncin engines I will likely end up selling it on Craiglist for parts.

Yes it has the same bolt pattern

You will have to remove the plug on either the mower or the engine and rewire one of them

No Splash is fine for domestic mowers

YEs or you can buy a universal choke lever & fit it .

Check other surpllus retailer
Small engine warehouse & small engine suppliers
Around this time of year excess production from last year is flogged off and even better price are the scratch & pulls where the mower factory pulls out last years engine & fits a new one for next season .
However as the season is almost over you might like to pull the Kohler down again and check the counterweight

bertsmobile1 said:

Yes it has the same bolt pattern

You will have to remove the plug on either the mower or the engine and rewire one of them

No Splash is fine for domestic mowers

YEs or you can buy a universal choke lever & fit it .

Check other surpllus retailer
Small engine warehouse & small engine suppliers
Around this time of year excess production from last year is flogged off and even better price are the scratch & pulls where the mower factory pulls out last years engine & fits a new one for next season .
However as the season is almost over you might like to pull the Kohler down again and check the counterweight

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Thanks for the reply. I am thinking that the conversion would only be difficult in the electrical and the muffler. Honestly, a Toro ZTR muffler as found on the SS4200 might even fit right up. As for the fuel, I would just need to run the rubber house around to the other side from where it is now. Assuming that the crankshaft is the same length and with the same keyway all the way, the double pulley should fit up without an issue. My only hesitation in doing this is that I do not want to run into some type of issue that I cannot easily resolve myself in the garage.

As for the Kohler, I would maybe consider passing it off to a small engine mechanic who does this kind of stuff on the side to maybe avoid the expensive labor rates but given the known issue with the lifter(s), the fact that the head and or/piston may be damaged now and it already burning oil, this engine is looking at a complete overhaul and then some. I wouldn't put more than $100 into fixing this if I was doing the work myself, which I am not even capable of doing the piston rings. I would almost rather take my chances throwing the Loncin engine in it and seeing if I can get another year or two out of it. For $400 total to swap the engine and put on a new muffler, it would totally be worth it to go that route.

I have been speaking with my wife about this situation, and unfortunately, she is of NO HELP considering that I sold my almost new Exmark earlier in the year when COVID cost me a significant amount of income and now I am in this situation of having a 22-year-old mower that is broke down; she didn't want to hear it.

I am now in the financial position to buy something new, but I would like to see this mower go to a good home as-is or at the very least throw this new engine in it an try to maybe recoup some money. I think that as it sits the mower might fetch $300 but with a working engine (even a new Chinese one), I might be able to get $750. The mower is in very good condition, deck has been completely rebuilt and the trans is still strong. It has a lot going for it, just bad luck with the engine!

I finally took the engine out and started breaking it down from the top end first. This is my first time removing an engine head and valve cover so I do not know what I am looking at. When I loosened the rockers, the two rods came out and were in tack with oil flowing through them. The lifters were both at the top and at the time that I pulled the cover off, both valves where in the same position (partially down). There is a LOT of carbon buildup on the top of the piston and head and in the exhaust port, but I was kind of expecting that. If there is nothing out of the ordinary here, the next thing to do would be to disassemble the bottom end and check the camshaft. Also, looking at the cylinder wall and knowing that it was burning oil, am I correct in assuming that the piston needs to be removed, the cylinder honed and new rings installed?

Cylinder walls show very little wear since part of the crosshatch is still present. But that heat glaze pattern is kind of unique. I would pull the lifters out next and see what the bottoms look like. See if they have a groove worn into them. The lifters would appear to be all the way up after the push rods are removed due to the internal spring in them.

Looks like a sleeved engine and the vertical marks might be caused by the sleeve to block securement design. And that pattern might be why it's using oil. Hone and new rings might take care of it.

I am going off into uncharted territory here.....

Looks like a complete teardown for me. I was not really wanting to get all the way down into the bottom end of the engine, but if I am going this far I should not neglect the piston or checking the camshaft for damage. The noise that I referred to in the start of this thread sounded and appeared to be a collapsed lifter as it was just a loud ticking under the valve cover. When the engine gave out a couple of weeks back, the sound was more of a loud clanking in the crankcase. I would assume that the head and valves are all good, so I am currently only in it for a couple of gaskets and the aforementioned parts related to the head and lifters. I guess even putting a couple of hundred into this engine if I can get it running correctly is better than tossing it or paying the money for a repower.

Okay, so another update. I was able to pull the lifters out and to my surprise there were not any grooves or indentations on the back side, BUT when I pulled the one lifter out there was small pieces of cast metal on it. I could see that the one cam lob was in the up position but the other was not. So I decided to try and turn the crankshaft with a wrench and AGAIN to my surprise, I found that the piston is not moving. The top side of the cam is also not moving. Oh yeah, when I turned the motor on it's back side, I heard something metal in the crankcase make some noise. So, if I am reading this correcly, I likely have a broken connecting rod, a broken camshaft and possibly collapsed lifters. Assuming that I do not need to replace the piston itself, I am looking at about $350 in parts without replacing any gaskets that need replacing from the teardown. This is also assuming that everything with the head/valves is good. I just don't know if this is beyond the point where I should be fixing it. I guess it is more just an issue of my lack of experience with this type of work and thinking that maybe I should try and find a small engine repair person to take on this project?

May end up being easier and/or cheaper to repower it.

Might start looking around for a used mower like yours for parts? Something like this:

saw quite a few "good" used CV15's on the FleaBay

tom3 said:

Might start looking around for a used mower like yours for parts? Something like this:

John Deere LT155 Riding Mower - 42" Mulch Deck - farm & garden - by...

John Deere LT155 Riding Mower - 15HP Kohler Engine / 42" Mulch Deck. Hydrostatic transmission with...

limaohio.craigslist.org

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I saw that one, but it is a few hours drive and not really worth it since I do not need much more than the engine. If I needed more parts I would certainly consider the drive. I did actually find a Craftsman LT1000 with what appears to be an identical motor for $200. The owner states that the motor runs smooth with no smoking or burning oil. This machine is only about an hour away. I also have a lead out on a guy who had a John Deere grave yard that might possess a replacement motor as well. This guy has everything from 105's to 345's and in between. I am still going to tear down the current engine so that I can see what went wrong. The best part of getting a used CV15S is that I can keep the nice (matching) Deere engine cover.

So, I got word back from the seller about this craftsman mower and the spec is slightly different than mine

Can someone tell me what the difference between the CV15-41562 that I have and the CV15-41567 that is in his craftsman?

Thank you.

Well I finally found an engine that will work in the LT155. A used, running engine showed up on eBay that is a direct replacement. I really hated to go this route but it was more convenient then trying to fit something "close" and possibly needing fuel system or electrical modifications. I expect to see the engine arrive in a week or so. Even though I don't usually run my mowers in the winter I look forward to getting the heart put back in the beast and firing it up on a warm winter day real soon. I will of course hang on to he old engine for swappable parts such as fuel pump, carb, starter and what not.

I am not too sure as to whether or not I will keep "Johnny" once the spring comes as I now have the means to purchase something new. We have also been looking at property to build on which could certainly change my needs.

Another update on the engine. Box showed up a couple of weeks ago but have been too busy to work on getting it in the LT155. The other day I went to clean some stuff out of the garage so I figured I would pull the motor out of the box that it was shipped in and put it onto a stand and low and behold the engine is not the correct one. The seller sent me a CV13S and not a CV15S. I had peeked into the box when it arrived but never pulled it all the way out as I didn't have time. I contacted the seller and he is sending out the correct engine this week and providing a return label for the wrong one to be sent back. Its a good thing that I am not in a hurry to get this done, otherwise I think that all will work out in the end.

cruzenmike said:

Another update on the engine. Box showed up a couple of weeks ago but have been too busy to work on getting it in the LT155. The other day I went to clean some stuff out of the garage so I figured I would pull the motor out of the box that it was shipped in and put it onto a stand and low and behold the engine is not the correct one. The seller sent me a CV13S and not a CV15S. I had peeked into the box when it arrived but never pulled it all the way out as I didn't have time. I contacted the seller and he is sending out the correct engine this week and providing a return label for the wrong one to be sent back. Its a good thing that I am not in a hurry to get this done, otherwise I think that all will work out in the end.

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Well, the seller contacted me today and said that it is too much of a hassle to return set up a return of the CV13S and that I can keep just keep it. I am guessing that the engines are quite similar and that many of the parts are interchangeable. I do not think it would be fair to turn around and sell it so I think I will just put it up on the shelf to have some spare parts to pull off of in case I need them.

After a long and troubling journey I have finally resurrected the LT155. The engine that I purchased on eBay a couple of months ago has finally been installed and the mower is running. The little bit of oil that came out of the bottom of the crankcase was quite dark so I ended up just filling and draining the engine a couple of times and then running/flushing the engine twice with a new filter before finally filling it up with John Deere 10w30 and putting it away until I need it. The engine seemed to run smooth without any issues. In the coming weeks I will get the deck cleaned up and the rest of the machine put back together. I still have dreams of getting a newer/bigger machine but if all else fails, this mower should be ready to go.

I just thought that I would share some pictures from inside the engine as I took it apart last night. From what I can tell this engine needs a new connecting rod and camshaft. It would also need piston rings, new lifters and other miscellaneous gaskets required to put it back together.

cruzenmike said:

I just thought that I would share some pictures from inside the engine as I took it apart last night. From what I can tell this engine needs a new connecting rod and camshaft. It would also need piston rings, new lifters and other miscellaneous gaskets required to put it back together.

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I did just notice in looking a bit closer at these pictures that the side of the cylinder wall appears to have a chunk taken out of it. i guess this engine is toast!

Ever heard of JB Weld?
?

cruzenmike said:

From what I can tell this engine needs a new connecting rod and camshaft.

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This is true. Your "connecting rod" has become very dis-connected.

It's past "separated". It's now fully "divorced".

It'll buff out.

I do have a question that maybe someone could answer. I have this CV13S that the seller of my replacement engine accidentally sent me. Obviously there are some differences in the CV13 and CV15 but I am wondering whether or not the short blocks are interchangeable? I do not want to necessarily junk the old, broken CV15 but I would rather rebuild the engine and have as a spare instead of putting the under-powered CV13 on the shelf.

So the broken rod is most likely a "symptom" of a problem. It's not simply that the rod broke.. and that was the total issue. No, the oil pump stopped, the engine was over-reved, the oil wasn't changed regularly, fuel got into the engine oil and prevented lubrication, water got into the engine oil... something else made the rod break. My point is... rods simply don't break on their own.

Bottom line... if you simply replace the rod without finding and fixing the REAL problem, then the next rod will also break in a very short time. And all your work will be wasted.

You MUST do the "root cause analysis" first.

Born2Mow said:

So the broken rod is most likely a "symptom" of a problem. It's not simply that the rod broke.. and that was the total issue. No, the oil pump stopped, the engine was over-reved, the oil wasn't changed regularly, fuel got into the engine oil and prevented lubrication, water got into the engine oil... something else made the rod break. My point is... rods simply don't break on their own.

Bottom line... if you simply replace the rod without finding and fixing the REAL problem, then the next rod will also break in a very short time. And all your work will be wasted.

You MUST do the "root cause analysis" first.

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If you read through the whole thread you will see that I was having an issue with a the lifters when all of this started happening. I am not certain as to what it was that lead to the final (catastrophic) failure, but I can say with 100% certainty that the engine was not over-revved, the oil was clean with no evidence of water or fuel in it. It is entirely possible that the collapsed lifter that I suspected was causing my "ticking" sound in the weeks prior to the failure lead to a more serious breakdown should the air/exhaust valves stopped functioning properly. What leads me to believe this is that just before the failure the engine started bogging down with a very noticeable sound in the exhaust note and when the engine was turned off it stopped with a loud "clank" or "clunk" which was likely the moment when the rod made contact with the cylinder wall and camshaft. Regardless, the failure was not a complete surprise as the engine was already exhibiting some issues that I was attempting to fix but was obviously not successful.

Anyway, I have a used, but running motor in the machine now and am looking for what to do with the old motor. Assuming that I replaced enough of the bad parts from the original engine, I could get a good running spare to keep on the shelf. I have a complete CV13S that is supposed to be in running condition, and this CV15S that has the broken cylinder wall, broken connecting rod and broken camshaft. If I rebuilt the CV15S I would replace the above-mentioned broken parts along with lifters, rods, oil pump, all new gaskets and rings for the piston. I would also replace any seals on the top and bottom of the crankshaft. I do not know if there is supposed to be any play in there but with the bottom end off the crankshaft does appear to move up and down slightly.

I am only looking to see if I would need to buy a new short block or if I could use the one from the CV13S to start the rebuild on the CV15S?

If your up for some detective work check this out . https://www1.gardnerinc.com/dealers/kohler/kohler_study_guide/10 - Failure Analysis Guidebook.pdf